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[jim-jam bongs]

So amid all this horror, I did get a moment of levity which came as an addendum to more horror. I used to live in Sarasota, which is about 3 hours from Orlando. My wife noticed that one of the victims of this bullshit came from our town, and a friend of his was being interviewed. His friend is a drag queen who goes by the handle Beneva Fruitville, which are two streets in Sarasota which intersect.

Weirdly, there's pretty much nothing at that intersection except a grungy petrol station, but the choice of name made me smile anyway.

 

[Steel]

This is such a shit tragedy especially because it's multiple debates at once:

-Gun control debates
-LGBTQ acceptance debates
-Radical Islam debates

So people with agendas are going to choose to ignore or emphasize their debate of choice, willingly avoiding the fact that these are all intertwined and with this specific tragedy, you can't have one debate without the other.

There's tangible action being made on two of those. More can be done on the LGBT+ front, but on the radical islam side of things we're already doing everything short of a ground invasion of ISIS and banning muslims. However, we have yet to make any tangible progress on Gun Control.

 

[Henkka]

like? Which first world country? we are talking about a developed first world country with 325 million population that is unable to stop their citizen from killing each other. But hey it's the land of the fr.... *Bäm* Headshot

This has nothing to do with fairness. Its just disgusting what happend there and the sadder part is that this is not the first or last massacre of this kind and scope in the US

No first world countries that I know of, that was kind of my point. Maybe it was a meaningless point, I admit.

 

[CTLance]

To all the victims of this crime and everyone else affected by it, my condolences. What a terrible thing to happen.

That said, it saddens me deeply that some people instantly switched to the mental health excuse when the US gun problem became the matter of discussion. And that it had to become a discussion again, but that's kinda expected by now. The same old, the same old.

There is a certain bitter sense of humour to be found in the fact that this nation managed to send men to the moon on space vessels held together by hopes and dreams more than actual structural integrity, yet find themselves unable to even take a single step on an issue that's so clearly defined. This selective paralysis would be hilarious, ... if it weren't so sickening.

 

[ctfg23]

RIP to the victims and condolences to their loved ones

I don't even know what else to say. So fucking tired of this shit.

 

[mreddie]

Morning news cycle is about to begin and why do I get the feeling the shooters face will be shown more than anything related to the victims?

And Ted Cruz, you can fuck off. "Political correctness caused this."

 

[-COOLIO-]

It amazes me how people are so willing to jump to banning guns and anti-muslim arguments instead of just targeting the largest elephant in the run: anti-lgbt rhethoric.

Well, religion often contains anti-lgbt rhetoric.

 

[The Artisan]

You know dude, I really really doubt it. And even if it did, it's still completely ridiculous to point at LGBT groups speaking out against Islamophobia and saying "bet you feel stupid now".

yes, that is ridiculous but at the heat of the moment I can't blame them for their anger and frustration, considering their losses. as for the terrorist, why are you doubting it?

I would say to them what I have said in all threads, the evidence is not on your side.

to be fair, the same can be said to those who argue against what trump supporters say about the radical islamic problem that we have going on here, you know what i mean?

I can respect what you are saying though. Taking a position without being informed enough is also not very wise. I guess I have been a bit jaded from my conversations on here where typically that type of talk is code for not really being sincere and only saying they refuse to take a side because in reality no evidence will actually sway them. Which just means they are really for the status quo but want to play semantics games for perception sake to appear even handed.

I can understand that. It happens on the internet a lot and can get tiresome for people who want to be serious in getting through discussions. i am too and i realize this is a very serious problem, but i haven't followed the intricacies well enough to formulate for myself an opinion on what the right plan of action is.

 

[Alligatorjandro]

We're there any gaf members there I wonder

 

[Maedre]

Why the umlaut in "bam"?

sry its a german thing. Its like "ae"

 

[Royal_Phalanx]

True, but there are probably people we can quote from every country saying shitty things. Also in that article:



Edit: Missed the anti semitism in the first comment. Damn.

I'm part Malaysian, I'm ashamed of my ancestral country.

 

[shiba5]

Morning news cycle is about to begin and why do I get the feeling the shooters face will be shown more than anything related to the victims?

And Ted Cruz, you can fuck off. "Political correctness caused this."

WTF does this even mean? Is he saying if gays had stayed in the closet, this wouldn't have happened? I can't even parse this nutjob's statement.

 

[Apathy]

I'm just wondering how many times you have to dance this dance until you change. It's embarrassing and heartbreaking.

Sadly, sandy hook kinda proved there is no tipping point on this debate in the US. If legislators could not realize there was a problem that needs an actual solution when innocent children got massacred, nothing will make make them see there is a problem.

There probably is a tipping point, but it would have to affect legislators directly for actual change. Even that I'm not 100% sure of.

 

[RustyNails]

Yeah because I have nothing else to do except to provide you with an in-depth study of the reasons behind that striking statistic.

Nice dodge. If you're gonna make big claim, be ready to back those up. You got nothing.

 

[Kinsei]

Morning news cycle is about to begin and why do I get the feeling the shooters face will be shown more than anything related to the victims?

And Ted Cruz, you can fuck off. "Political correctness caused this."

The guy that campaigned at a kill the gays rally is shit? I never would have guessed.

Fuck Ted Cruz and all of the politicians like him.

 

[TalonJH]

Ugh, I walk into work today and the secretary sparks up a conversation about the Orlando shooting and says, "I think we'll see more of this because you know in the Quran they talk about stoning homosexuals?" I thought about saying, "is Christianity any better"(she is very religious and I heard her talking about wishing gay people would stop pushing their agenda on her and God will deal with them last week), but I just turned around and walked away. Started my day off horrible.

 

[Chococat]

It amazes me how people are so willing to jump to banning guns and anti-muslim arguments instead of just targeting the largest elephant in the run: anti-lgbt rhethoric.

It's not surprising actually. Despite recent gains in LBGT rights on paper, a sizable chunk of Americas still hate LBGT people. Pointing at Islam ALONE gives a convenient scrape goat that allow the public to ignore the part of Islam/culture the shooter acted on: homophobia.

People don't want to talk about homophobia in America, because many Americans still agree with it across all races, subcultures, and religions/beliefs. It's taboo because so much of "reasoning" for homophobia is allowed to hide behind religion.

America needs to deal with it own homophobic beliefs.

 

[bootsthecat]

Sadly, sandy hook kinda proved there is no tipping point on this debate in the US. If legislators could not realize there was a problem that needs an actual solution when innocent children got massacred, nothing will make make them see there is a problem.

There probably is a tipping point, but it would have to affect legislators directly for actual change. Even that I'm not 100% sure of.

Gabby Giffords was pretty direct, and it didn't do much, either.

 

[mackattk]

People that want to blame inanimate objects for killing people aren't getting to the root of the problem. I'm a gun owner. I'm ok with stricter gun laws. The government can check my background as much as they want. I'm ok with it. I'll go through all the training in the world. I don't care. The law abiding gun owners that I know would likely do the same. Do you really think stricter gun laws are going to stop people from wanting to kill other people?

....

It is the ease of entry that makes guns so damn dangerous. Sensible gun laws would prevent a substantial amount of gun crimes from happening. Sure people who are set on killing somebody could find another way, but they would have to have the knowledge of creating a device, or be strong enough to overpower people, or a thousand of other things to happen to make it as successful as a gun spree. Guns are incredibly easy to get your hands on, are quick, and they are deadly. It is much easier shooting somebody from 30 feet than getting close with a knife or creating a explosive device.

 

[Apathy]

Gabby Giffords was pretty direct, and it didn't do much, either.

The problem is that she is just one person that got affected. Sure it was direct in that it's one of them, but again it's just one. As horrible as it sounds, I think legislators would only be pushed enough if someone went in a spree on capital hill and caused some serious damage. If they saw that even in their little sanctum they were not safe they would have an actual discussion on what to do about it because they saw that they were just as targetable as the masses, something they wouldn't like. Until something like that happens, the issue of gun control in the US will keep getting pushed aside hiding behind antiquated 2nd amendment rights that have no bearings in a modern world.

 

[LiveFromKyoto]

The problem is that she is just one person that got affected. Sure it was direct in that it's one of them, but again it's just one. As horrible as it sounds, I think legislators would only be pushed enough if someone went in a spree on capital hill and caused some serious damage. If they saw that even in their little sanctum they were not safe they would have an actual discussion on what to do about it because they saw that they were just as targetable as the masses, something they wouldn't like. Until something like that happens, the issue of gun control in the US will keep getting pushed aside hiding behind antiquated 2nd amendment rights that have no bearings in a modern world.

It wouldn't though. Because this has never been about what politicians actually believe. It's about having to answer to pro-gun constituencies. If Washington got shot up, all those Tea Partiers & Trump voters who think DC is Satan's Den wouldn't be affected. Those politicians would still have to suck up to them to get elected. If their district is pro-gun, they're going to be pro-gun, whether they're Democrat or Republican. End of story. It's the reason Obama never comes out and says "fuck all guns" even though you can tell by this point he's fed up and really wants to.

 

[MikeDown]

Disgusting.

I'm sorry but right now the democratic process really is a hindrance when it comes to taking action. Hypothetically if we had a dictator that made the right calls, I really don't see a problem with that.

You are misguided.

I mean there is always that possibility.

And again RIP to all the victims, feel like sometime remembering them becomes lost as we go through this debate.

 

[Jag]

True, but there are probably people we can quote from every country saying shitty things. Also in that article:



Edit: Missed the anti semitism in the first comment. Damn.

Amazing comment. "Islam means be tolerant of others, don't be like those disgusting Jews." Just shows how deep hatred runs and why people think its ok to kill anyone who disagrees with them.

RIP to the victims, but this isn't even about Islamic terrorism. It's about how easy it is to get guns. We need less guns, not more. And fuck Trump.

 

[Earthstrike]

Well, religion often contains anti-lgbt rhetoric.

It's interesting to watch some of the reactions in this thread and relate them back to the recent abortion shooting. Noone had a problem of relating the abortion bombings to the constant bombardment that vilifies abortion doctors and planned parenthood as evil organizations and the constant rhetoric of the right wing.

But if a person grows up in a religious environment that bombards an individual with anti-gay rhetoric, and that rhetoric is in the qu'ran, and spoken at the mosque, and homosexuality is deemed unethical by its adherents at large, then why should that not be considered a contributing factor in this case?

 

[Guy LeDouche]

I'm sorry but right now the democratic process really is a hindrance when it comes to taking action. Hypothetically if we had a dictator that made the right calls, I really don't see a problem with that.

no thanks

 

[LiveFromKyoto]

I'm sorry but right now the democratic process really is a hindrance when it comes to taking action. Hypothetically if we had a dictator that made the right calls, I really don't see a problem with that.

Oh, hold on, I think I've got something right here...let me check...oh, hey, here it is. I found your problem.

It's called ALL OF HISTORY.

Life is trash for the common people when they don't have a direct say in governance.

 

[Lightning Count]

Rarely do I have a favourable view of religion but this belongs here.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/artic...ow-without-religious-lgbt-support-says-bishop

 

[DOWN]

 

[Durden77]

I feel worse about this now than I did yesterday.

It'w not going to be a good day at work. Fuck man. Bless these people.

 

[Bleepey]

Oh snap!

 

[Terra]

Even though I am on another continent, I feel so deeply with those affected.
I cried yesterday while watching that mother speak/cry on the news.

The thought...of taking away other peoples life. Their happiness. Their families. Their lifes.
Taking away other peoples life, and feeling that you do good things.
It just does not compute. The empathy is gone - or most probably - was never there.

Pure evil. Pure evil is what people like that terrorist is.

=´(

 

[Bleepey]

It must be weird being a Gay Roman Catholic Trump supporter. Can this dude even vote?

http://www.breitbart.com/big-govern...assacre-time-gays-come-home-republican-party/

Wait what?!

 

[Earthstrike]

http://www.breitbart.com/big-govern...assacre-time-gays-come-home-republican-party/

Wait what?!

They want that? Fine then, Have a republican go on stage, say that gays deserve the full rights heterosexuals do they support gay marriage, and there is nothing wrong with being gay.

Oh wait, that won't happen.

 

[Bleepey]

Is this poorly worded? I read it that you are saying there are thousands of knife murders in the UK every year.

There are many thousands of knife murders worldwide every year, but there were 'only' 182 knife murders in the most recent figures for England and Wales, and I doubt very much that Scotland and Northern Ireland make up the difference.

http://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulat...fences-involving-knives-and-sharp-instruments

Perception isn't always reality. I literally burst out laughing when I hear Americans say yeah but what about "knife crime in the UK" as if that's some silver bullet that will put holes in anti-gun people's arguments. Ironically they only end up shooting themselves in the foot.

 

[Scrooged]

This is one of those things that sounds poignant at first glance, but it makes absolutely no sense when you actually think about it.

 

[hunchback]

Oh snap!

I love it. I would vote for this.

 

[FreedomFighter]

Perception isn't always reality. I literally burst out laughing when I hear Americans say yeah but what about "knife crime in the UK" as if that's some silver bullet that will put holes in anti-gun people's arguments. Ironically they only end up shooting themselves in the foot.

Holy hell at that second graph. American exceptionalism indeed.

Disregarding the first part of your statement that has no basis in reality, well of course the FBI failed to stop successful terror attacks. By definition that's why they're successful.

Sorry to say you're incorrect. It's unfortunate you don't know about this. So, each one teach one. Here's further reading (if you're interested):

Why Does the FBI Have to Manufacture its Own Plots if Terrorism and ISIS Are Such Grave Threats?
US: Terrorism Prosecutions Often An Illusion
The FBI's Terror Machine
Fake terror plots, paid informants: the tactics of FBI 'entrapment' questioned
The FBI’s Counterterrorism Sting Operations Are Counterproductive
The FBI's Phony War on Terror
Questionable Terror Plots
Manufactured Terrorism? US Officials Claim Credit For Stopping Another 'FBI-Created' Terror Attack
Government agents 'directly involved' in most high-profile US terror plots
The FBI again thwarts its own Terror plot
THE STING: How the FBI Created a Terrorist
Terrorist Plots, Hatched by the F.B.I.
Event Monday: Is the FBI Creating Terrorist Plots to Stop Them?
"How the FBI Created a Terrorist": Agency Accused of Entrapping Mentally Ill Man in Florida
Entrapment or Foiling Terror? FBI's Reliance on Paid Informants Raises Questions about Validity of Terrorism Cases
How The FBI Invents Terror Plots To Catch Wannabe Jihadis
LATEST FBI CLAIM OF DISRUPTED TERROR PLOT DESERVES MUCH SCRUTINY AND SKEPTICISM
FBI Informant Exposes Sting Operation Targeting Innocent Americans in New "(T)ERROR" Documentary
The FBI Goes To Disturbing Lengths To Set Up Potential Terrorists

Damn!

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

It's interesting to watch some of the reactions in this thread and relate them back to the recent abortion shooting. Noone had a problem of relating the abortion bombings to the constant bombardment that vilifies abortion doctors and planned parenthood as evil organizations and the constant rhetoric of the right wing.

But if a person grows up in a religious environment that bombards an individual with anti-gay rhetoric, and that rhetoric is in the qu'ran, and spoken at the mosque, and homosexuality is deemed unethical by its adherents at large, then why should that not be considered a contributing factor in this case?

You are obscuring my words. I never said religion didn't play a single mother fucking part. But people are pointing at Islam as the SOLE predictor in this case, and not looking at culture wide anti-lgbt argumentation that lead to a man kill people in a fucking night club where people go to be with friends and family and be themselves during PRIDE month.

Fine.

Keep arguing away about how so awful Islam is and gun control without one second pointing at the obvious element that lead to this tragedy despite it being a CLEAR middle finger to our community and how much we are valued.

 

[Discotheque]

She should stick to her awful acting and leave the witty political statements to somebody who actually makes sense.

 

[Meh3D]

As if the screen shots of text messages wasn't enough to tear a hole through my chest; I just saw a picture of the young person who sent those text messages and was killed that night. I can't imagine being on the other end receiving those messages and being powerless to help.

 

[Spring Drive]

 

[PlayALLtheGames]

As soon as I saw it was a gay club I knew there'd be some evangelical assholes who wouldn't be able to keep themselves from commenting about how these people essentially deserved it for "mocking" god with their lifestyle. And today you saw the Lt. Governor of Texas and that piece of shit Christian pastor from Arizona doing just that. This is definitely a terrorist attack many evangelicals will basically get behind.

She should stick to her awful acting and leave the witty political statements to somebody who actually makes sense.

That does make sense. What the hell are you talking about?

 

[Iorv3th]

She should stick to her awful acting and leave the witty political statements to somebody who actually makes sense.

That tweet is very poorly thought out. Don't know if it was posted to make us say how stupid it was or because someone thought she had a point?

That does make sense. What the hell are you talking about?

How? LGBT are still men/women and have the same rights under the constitution as everyone else. So they are 'constitutionally protected' the same as others.

 

[Henkka]

What is this?

 

[Amory]

What is this?

stock quote for a gun company

 

[Gattsu25]

What is this?

Looks like the stock value for one of the bigger gun manufacturers.

Seems that they are making big bucks when the market opened this morning

 

[partyphone]

gun sales always spike after a mass shooting. gun nuts are amazingly paranoid and stock brokers are amoral opportunists.

 

[sunshine and gasoline]

In a better world, stock would go down after gun shootings like the one we just had.

 

[e_i]

5 people still in grave condition at the hospital

 

[Diffense]

http://www.pinkpistols.org/2016/06/12/pink-pistols-saddened-by-attack-on-orlando-club/

Gwendolyn Patton, First Speaker of the Pink Pistols, an international GLBT self-defense organization, warns people not to jump immediately to the assailant’s guns as the object of blame, but to concentrate instead on Mateen’s violent acts. “The Pink Pistols gives condolences to all family and friends of those killed and injured at Pulse,” began Patton. “This is exactly the kind of heinous act that justifies our existence. At such a time of tragedy, let us not reach for the low-hanging fruit of blaming the killer’s guns. Let us stay focused on the fact that someone hated gay people so much they were ready to kill or injure so many. A human being did this. The human being’s tools are unimportant when compared to the bleakness of that person’s soul. I say again, GUNS did not do this. A human being did this, a dead human being. Our job now is not to demonize the man’s tools, but to condemn his acts and work to prevent such acts in the future.”

I agree with some of her points though I don't think weapons like the AR-15 are needed for self-defense.