Xbox Project Scorpio Announced - 6TFlops, 320GB/s - Fall 2017

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Sounds really good. I'm a Sony guy and I applaud MS for pushing it. I don't think Sony can top this now.

But I'm kinda apprehensive, it seems like the generations are over.
 
Yautja_Warrior said:
It's cool for people who want a console with more power but Microsoft just announced pretty much every game for PC too and my PC will still be more powerful, so why would I buy Scorpio when my PC will play the game ?
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Meh they are indifferent. You buy their game from their store they get your money. Xbox is just a distribution system. From their POV, it makes sense to make games available for both as some people will never go console.
 
Yautja_Warrior said:
It's cool for people who want a console with more power but Microsoft just announced pretty much every game for PC too and my PC will still be more powerful, so why would I buy Scorpio when my PC will play the game ?

With that in mind and the fact I've had PS4 since launch, the PS4k is still a more logical buy for me and it won't even matter if isn't quite as powerful, because the exclusives like Uncharted will be exclusive and thats the main reason I buy a console, everything else I can play on PC.

Can't knock MS for offering great value with their cross buy games though and it was a pretty solid E3 for them overall.
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A lot of people just dont care about PC gaming, they prefer the Console echosystem etc...
 
tapantaola said:
It depends on if the PS4 Neo APU tape out has been completed or not (it's a quite costly process).

If the PS4 Neo is already being manufactured, then, yeah, it's almost impossible (except a slight upclock)...
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Tape out is a few hundred grand, its nothing in the grand scheme of things like strategy, scheduling, manufacturing, developer/partner outreach, software pipeline etc.
 
Curious why people think Neo would have an advantage being first.

The way I see it is if you have a PS4 already the jump to Neo (1.84TF to 4.2TF) isn't as big as the jump to Scorpio. If you believe the rumors then all PS4 games will run in both so you still get Sony exclusives on your PS4.

This isn't a new gen it's an upgrade. Why not keep the PS4 for exclusives and get the Scorpio for better multi-plats. This only works if you don't plan on buying PC.
 
Delusibeta said:
The problem would be time optimizing. Indeed, I suspect the primary reason we're getting incremental consoles in the first place is that developers are already spending noticeably more time optimizing their games. The problem is that by mandating all games support the base PS4 (and presumably Microsoft will want all games to support the base Xbone) is that they making the problem worse, since developers will have to optimize for the base PS4/Xbone *and* the PS4k/Scorpio. I suspect the end result will be one of the two parings will be left as an afterthought for practically all developers. Precisely which pairing will vary. Will developers focus on PS4/Xbone to maximize user base, or PS4k/Scorpio for maximum graphics? Who knows.
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The primary reason we are getting iterative consoles is because MS and Sony can charge a pretty penny, improve their margins, and keep the uses better locked in to the ecosystem they have built :).
 
The Goat Of Ages said:
As it stands now, Sony should scrap the Neo, ride the PS4 train until 2018 then drop the PS5 to destroy the scorpio. Only sensible course of action I can see from here
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That's looking like a more viable option. EDIT: maybe not, if they have already designed and sent out developer kits. I mean, it seems Microsoft beat them to the punch, and with a system that will most likely be more powerful. It does seem like Sony pulled out of revealing their new system so that they could revise it when compared to Scorpio.

It's hard to say. However, if they want to promote the same type of refresh cycle, it's better to just release it as soon as possible. Even if it ends up being weaker than Scorpio, the option for higher fidelity gaming will be there.
 
Caayn said:
Jup, my first generation.

Just wondering. Seeing how you didn't answer my question I'm going to take that as a yes.

Besides, remember the PS3? Launched a year later, later even in Europe, was €100~€200 more expensive. Look how Sony managed to turn that ship around. My point is. You seem to take things really black and white in this thread. The real world isn't like that and neither is this industry. A lot can happen in a year, especially since we know so little about both devices.
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The difference being that the Playstation brand is more popular world wide, not just NA and the UK, that was the big reason for the turn around.
 
Yautja_Warrior said:
It's cool for people who want a console with more power but Microsoft just announced pretty much every game for PC too and my PC will still be more powerful, so why would I buy Scorpio when my PC will play the game ?
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As long as you give them your $60 for the PC version they're fine with you not buying a Scorpio.
 
So they mention 6 TFLOP GPU, but that is not the whole system. With the CPU it is...more? However, how much more? Because it cannot be Jaguar, it feels like it woule be very unbalanced.
 
Yautja_Warrior said:
It's cool for people who want a console with more power but Microsoft just announced pretty much every game for PC too and my PC will still be more powerful, so why would I buy Scorpio when my PC will play the game ?

With that in mind and the fact I've had PS4 since launch, the PS4k is still a more logical buy for me and it won't even matter if isn't quite as powerful, because the exclusives like Uncharted will be exclusive and thats the main reason I buy a console, everything else I can play on PC.

Can't knock MS for offering great value with their cross buy games though and it was a pretty solid E3 for them overall.
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Ms are taking the view that if you're an ms customer on win10 why should they force you to buy a box to play games they publish. They actively want to court "pc gamers" with xbox titles.
 
JumPeRJumPzZ said:
A lot of people just dont care about PC gaming, they prefer the Console echosystem etc...
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Yes, but also a lot of people love the console ecosystem, because when they buy a console, they can enjoy it for 6-8 years until it is dead. Now the console manufacturers are getting away from that. Older players (like myself) aren't necessarily interested in that.
 
The Goat Of Ages said:
As it stands now, Sony should scrap the Neo, ride the PS4 train until 2018 then drop the PS5 to destroy the scorpio. Only sensible course of action I can see from here
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I'll agree if the Neo slips into 2017. However, if they can get the Neo out before Christmas, I think that the year sales advantage would be sufficient to neuter Scorpio's launch.
 
Reizo Ryuu said:
"optimisation" is a but overblown here, it's all the same amd architecture, you'd only need to optimise once really and then scale your content.
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... optimising your data or better optimising your data and making sure that your code let's that data flow as fast as possible IS the main point of optimisation and the more you can rely on a fixed HW specs the more time you can invest in them. The console generations concept has worked for 30+ years and. It out of sheer luck :).
 
justsomeguy said:
Ms are taking the view that if you're an ms customer on win10 why should they force you to buy a box to play games they publish. They actively want to court "pc gamers" with xbox titles.
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The funny thing is, this makes me want both a Scorpio AND gaming PC and buy all my games digitally so they go wherever I go.
 
Delusibeta said:
The Wii was announced as existing a good two years before release. I think the NX would be a similar time frame. However, neither console announced specs on their existence announcement.
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I think the N64 hardware was revealed to the public in 1994 (as the Ultra 64). It launched about 2 years later.

KinofChaos said:
Is it yours? How did xbox do against ps2? When has a more powerful, more expensive console come out after the market leader and sold more? Answer? NEVER.
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I also havent heard of a new generation where every game disk has to work on the previous console. Probably because this isnt a new generation. There wont be a reset in install bases, software, online communities, etc.
 
Yautja_Warrior said:
It's cool for people who want a console with more power but Microsoft just announced pretty much every game for PC too and my PC will still be more powerful, so why would I buy Scorpio when my PC will play the game ?
Click to expand...

Ok, for some people i can see this as "why buy an xbox if i have a pC" but lets stop pretending that this matters for a majority of console owners. Just because it's on PC doesn't magically mean a bunch of people will decide to build a PC.

PC gaming environment, and player base are so different than your average console player. I thought about building a PC, but when most games don't have decent gamepad support there's never going to be a reason for me to seriously consider dropping 1k on a crazy rig.
 
tapantaola said:
It depends on if the PS4 Neo APU tape out has been completed or not (it's a quite costly process).

If the PS4 Neo is already being manufactured, then, yeah, it's almost impossible (except a slight upclock)...
Click to expand...

Unlikely to have started making them yet. They usually start 2-3 months before launch
 
CassidyIzABeast said:
As long as you give them your $60 for the PC version they're fine with you not buying a Scorpio.
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Well PC games are normally cheaper than console version, especially digital copies from sites that sell game codes, so I'm fine getting cheaper PC games, rather than giving them 300-400 for a new box and paying full price for games.

Like I said, can't knock them for offering value. :)
 
Yautja_Warrior said:
It's cool for people who want a console with more power but Microsoft just announced pretty much every game for PC too and my PC will still be more powerful, so why would I buy Scorpio when my PC will play the game ?

With that in mind and the fact I've had PS4 since launch, the PS4k is still a more logical buy for me and it won't even matter if isn't quite as powerful, because the exclusives like Uncharted will be exclusive and thats the main reason I buy a console, everything else I can play on PC.

Can't knock MS for offering great value with their cross buy games though and it was a pretty solid E3 for them overall.
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I hope people understand that they are still supporting MS even though you are buying the games on PC. This is not directed at you, but a lot of people think that buying on PC is not supporting MS. This is what they want too. You are still supporting Xbox, their game division and their platform because you are using their product. Yes your PC has a better card, but they don't care. They just want you to buy software, which is why there is a focus on PC. I like it and I agree with you. I have no intentions of buying the hardware because I upgrade my PC regularly, but for the people that don't have one, this machine is a monster.
 
Delusibeta said:
I'll agree if the Neo slips into 2017. However, if they can get the Neo out before Christmas, I think that the year sales advantage would be sufficient to neuter Scorpio's launch.
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Releasing Neo this year means it'll battle with Microsoft on Christmas with XB1S. It's a very tactical move by Microsoft to engage head-on with Sony whether they release 2016 or 2017, with two new hardwares back-to-back.
 
Panajev2001a said:
... optimising your data or better optimising your data and making sure that your code let's that data flow as fast as possible IS the main point of optimisation and the more you can rely on a fixed HW specs the more time you can invest in them. The console generations concept has worked for 30+ years and. It out of sheer luck :).
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Sure, but it's ofcourse obviously starkly different from optimising between wii/360/ps3/pc, which are literally 4 different kind of systems, instead of optimising for just x86, more so when 3 out of 4 platforms are on nearly identical architecture.
 
AngelOFDeath said:
I think MS should have announced this project, but say zero numbers. They set themselves up, even though nothing is concrete, it is kinda like here are my cards now lets bet.
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Naw, they said the numbers because they were confident. And the rumors are there that Sony's version is weaker. So they are basically calling the shots now. This was a good move.
 
Maximilian E. said:
So they mention 6 TFLOP GPU, but that is not the whole system. With the CPU it is...more? However, how much more? Because it cannot be Jaguar, it feels like it woule be very unbalanced.
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I am assuming it is the Zen CPU since they mentioned VR. The jaguar/puma are not even remotely close to the min Oculus min specs. A 8 Core Zen should work great for Oculus and but huge upgrade over the Jaguar.
 
Collingwood said:
The funny thing is, this makes me want both a Scorpio AND gaming PC and buy all my games digitally so they go wherever I go.
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Yeah thats a huge advantage which MS has, since it has Windows and its store.
Sony can't do that with the PS.

It would be cool if third parties also supported it.
It would have been great if I were to play Division with my friends on PS4, but switch to PC when I'm soloing. Sadly, I don't see that happening on PS.
I don't have any IRL friends on XB at the same time though...
 
So my read on the Neo/Scorpio thing is that Sony is in coast mode while Microsoft is desperate to shake up the game (this is not a negative). They are effectively going to repeat what they did with the Xbox 360; get out early and with a power/development edge. This is smart. I’m on record as saying power matters and I think it will continue to matter going forward.

I think things are a little murkier than with the PS4 vs. Xbone because the release dates are staggered and we don’t have a lot of precedents to look at. With the 360, clearly launching early was critical for Microsoft. If Neo launches earlier at a comparable or more competitive price (could Sony drop it when Neo launches?), that would be comparable. Additionally, PS2 was out for a year before Xbox and trailed it significantly for an entire generation and it didn’t matter so much. On the other hand, things have changed. More of the console’s library is multiplatform than it would have been on the PS2, so direct port vs. port comparisons matter more. And obviously you have people on the PlayStation platform because they wanted stronger hardware. So I’m not sure what the end result would be.

Sony wants to keep things status quo. Microsoft needs drama to alter their course.

I absolutely despise the “everything is compatible with everything else” thing. I am going to be the first one to line up to get a generational leap, but I want just that: generations. It does not benefit me to spend a lot of money for a machine that is going to be playing games still ultimately designed for very old hardware. You’re obviously going to get a nice bump and developers know how to do their thing and hide the seams to make things feel new, but you are always kind of aware. I am extremely unhappy about this with both the Neo and the Scorpio and it is making me consider just dropping consoles.

I’ll probably get one if I don’t build a PC, which I think I will do since Microsoft has basically given you no reason to own an Xbox unless you are really not technically inclined or you don’t believe you can get plug and play functionality from a PC.

Sony has no reason to feel “threatened,” as they’re going to be so far ahead by the time this even launches, but it’s clearly a challenge to them for their most lucrative, most engaged customers. In that sense, they really have their work cut out for them.
 
Panajev2001a said:
Regarding point 1... Anniterative model were multiple console specs are essentially on the market at once and new hardware comes out rather frequently make old style console optimisation and lot less efficient.

One thing is learning the intricacies of HW which will remain stable for five years and being able to assume that all your customers have the same exact specs... another thing is coding for a rolling average target like on iOS or PC. I think that the people predicting a UWP box have hit the nail on the head.
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michaelius said:
What console optimizations? This will be windows 10 box running DX12 UWP games.
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That's the part that I'm curious about here. It's been like 10 years since I've had to do anything with game optimization, but I don't know if they have some crazy freaking DX update planned that would help devs optimize heavily for X1 / PC simultaneously, or whether they're giving up their console optimization benefits for cross-play / eventual merging of PC / X1 gaming (which is where I think this is headed). Or, are they seeing a situation where multi-platform games aren't getting optimized for consoles nearly as much because it's not financially worthwhile for games that are going to be on PS4/X1/PC; and they think it's better to just rock raw horsepower?

I'm curious to see as we get closer to 2017 how MS sees PC Gaming / Win 10 and Xbox intertwining.
 
wumster3000 said:
I hope people understand that they are still supporting MS even though you are buying the games on PC. This is not directed at you, but a lot of people think that buying on PC is not supporting MS. This is what they want too. You are still supporting Xbox, their game division and their platform because you are using their product. Yes your PC has a better card, but they don't care. They just want you to buy software, which is why there is a focus on PC. I like it and I agree with you. I have no intentions of buying the hardware because I upgrade my PC regularly, but for the people that don't have one, this machine is a monster.
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Even if you aren't buying games or gaming on a windows 10 machine they profit so long as you're using their OS or a computer built by one of the various vendors.
 
Delusibeta said:
"Scaling your content" is the same as "optimization" in this context.
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This already done in the actualy developing process though, it's not like artists create textures at 512x512 only, the master file is always in something that is much, much higher.
And modern engines internally have features scalability.
 
DasPenguin said:
Yes, but also a lot of people love the console ecosystem, because when they buy a console, they can enjoy it for 6-8 years until it is dead. Now the console manufacturers are getting away from that. Older players (like myself) aren't necessarily interested in that.
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I think we all got spoiled by the 360 era with an extremely long cycle. If your console didn't red-ring you got a stupendous value and stability that was unheard of in previous console generations, and I think we were lulled into feeling like that was going to be the new standard rather than a fluke.

As is you can still keep to that long ecosystem, because things are likely to stick to being compatible with the older models. When you upgrade you'll still get the same big boost. I appreciate that I don't feel like the XB1 will be a walled-off garden from the rest of the XBL experience like the 360 has felt in comparison.
 
Reizo Ryuu said:
Sure, but it's ofcourse obviously starkly different from optimising between wii/360/ps3/pc, which are literally 4 different kind of systems, instead of optimising for just x86, more so when 3 out of 4 platforms are on nearly identical architecture.
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Arch is one thing, but performance is the killer. Designing scalable code for a console that, to make an extreme case, that has either an Atom or a 10-cores Core i7 might be quite a tough challenge.
 
So where does the NX sit in all of this? as everyone here is talking Neo Scorpio, surely Nintendo doesn't want to be left out of the party again! How does Nintendo react? Or is it true that they'll stick to their console being the equivalent in power to xbox-1? (which were the strong rumours being buzzed about)
 
Ganzlinger said:
Sounds really good. I'm a Sony guy and I applaud MS for pushing it. I don't think Sony can top this now.

But I'm kinda apprehensive, it seems like the generations are over.
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I'm cool with that. It also seems throwing away your old software and ecosystem is over. I can't play my Afterburner Climax, VF5 etc anymore because I am solely on PS4 now. That seems to be over.

We can go on with PS4 and X1 and get sloppy downports by 2018, as was the case with Ps3 after about 4 years (in hindsight those Battlefield and Crysis console ports were terrible). Or you just upgrade and keep getting decent performance on your console. Old games keep working and chances are they will be boosted.
 
wumster3000 said:
I hope people understand that they are still supporting MS even though you are buying the games on PC. This is not directed at you, but a lot of people think that buying on PC is not supporting MS. This is what they want too. You are still supporting Xbox, their game division and their platform because you are using their product. Yes your PC has a better card, but they don't care. They just want you to buy software, which is why there is a focus on PC. I like it and I agree with you. I have no intentions of buying the hardware because I upgrade my PC regularly, but for the people that don't have one, this machine is a monster.
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Yeah its definitely a good move by them to do this, as there is an audience for both sides of the fence.
 
I'm confused about one thing. If the Scorpio is supposedly that much of an upgrade compared to the One, how are they going to develop games that aren't hamstrung by having to support the One?

There was a pretty significant jump in quality, IMO, when true current gen games were not also being developed for 360.
 
Shadow2222 said:
I'm confused about one thing. If the Scorpio is supposedly that much of an upgrade compared to the One, how are they going to develop games that aren't hamstrung by having to support the One?

There was a pretty significant jump in quality, IMO, when true current gen games were not also being developed for 360.
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The same way they support games for PC that have variable specs.
But even easier.
 
Huh. That disparity is huge. I wonder what the developers are thinking now? If the neo is right in the middle between the two then they have 3 platforms to consider. I think neo was pulled from the show because of the spec bump the MS crowd was pushing.
 
Shadow2222 said:
I'm confused about one thing. If the Scorpio is supposedly that much of an upgrade compared to the One, how are they going to develop games that aren't hamstrung by having to support the One?

There was a pretty significant jump in quality, IMO, when true current gen games were not also being developed for 360.
Click to expand...

This is the big question. The Xbox One is still the baseline for performance. How are developers going to respond to having to keep around support for that when they have something so much more capable? I don't actually understand what this does for the Xbox CONSOLE brand. I think it actually damages it (not in any strong way). If you're a PC gamer, you really have no incentive to buy an Xbox One.

https://the-optional.com/project-sc...ck-the-hardcore-gamer-26d853b1a349#.pbrfab56i
 
Shadow2222 said:
I'm confused about one thing. If the Scorpio is supposedly that much of an upgrade compared to the One, how are they going to develop games that aren't hamstrung by having to support the One?

There was a pretty significant jump in quality, IMO, when true current gen games were not also being developed for 360.
Click to expand...

1080p/60 is more than enough upgrade for me. Throw in a 4k/30 option for those with a 4k TV and that is fine upgrade.
 
Shadow2222 said:
I'm confused about one thing. If the Scorpio is supposedly that much of an upgrade compared to the One, how are they going to develop games that aren't hamstrung by having to support the One?

There was a pretty significant jump in quality, IMO, when true current gen games were not also being developed for 360.
Click to expand...

They arent. Most of the boost will go towards the same stuff at 30fps 4k and/or VR.
 
Shadow2222 said:
I'm confused about one thing. If the Scorpio is supposedly that much of an upgrade compared to the One, how are they going to develop games that aren't hamstrung by having to support the One?

There was a pretty significant jump in quality, IMO, when true current gen games were not also being developed for 360.
Click to expand...

Scalability

C'mon the pc isn't a new concept...
 
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