Proelite
Member
Not really. The programming parts yes.
Xbox Project Scorpio Announced - 6TFlops, 320GB/s - Fall 2017
- Thread starter wachie
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Not really. The programming parts yes.
SkylineRKR
Member
Maybe the Slim will turn things around a bit. Though they'll release the most expensive SKU first. But its a 4K player.
Mixolydian
Member
And people who state declaratives on something that's not yet out are also kidding themselves.
"The slim is dead at 449! Dead I tell you!"
"The Scorpio is 599"
"MS IS DEWMED"
"There's no way MS will announce Scorpio at E3"
"There's no way it's a 6TF system"
And so on.
I find that people who just KNOW what will happen are wrong the most. And when the time to eat crow comes up, they dissappear.
Though their competitor doesn't have a more powerful console. What Microsoft announced today was the target specification.
No one thought MS would announce a new console this early. I honestly thought a special event early next year, or even at E3 2017.
to be fair, they didn't reveal it
...Scatter...
Banned
Hang around me for a few minutes and I'll be lamenting sub 1080p with poor frame rates in a stream of curse words.
robertsan21
Member
Are the specs for neo final? Like do we even have an official word about the specs?
hahahahahahaha
To be honest, I don't think being more powerful will help MS in some regions. Here in Germany, practically everyone I know is deep in the Playstation camp and people will get what their friends have.
Only thing that can change that is some killer app (like a much much better Fifa or some mainstream hit).
Only thing that can change that is some killer app (like a much much better Fifa or some mainstream hit).
Banjo-Kazooie
Member
Probably the same people that said XB1 was Microsofts last console
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Banned
Could be Vega downclocked for lower TDP or with a lower CU count. Not saying it is, but it could.
Plenty of us here at least. To many games that are no 1080p/60. Both of the current machines are just underpowered. The scorpio should get us 1080p/60 on every game.
The Albatross
Member
To be fair to those people, what they announced today with Scorpio was a concept. They said "We're working to create the most powerful gaming system ever and we're working on it to have this stuff," but they didn't reveal anything other than the effort to create that system.
Many people on NeoGaf have been disappointed that this gen did not deliver 1080p at 60fps in a lot of games. This was a baseline that many enthusiast gamers thought would be the norm going forward, and the gen didn't deliver that. With "downgrades" for major 3rd party titles and compromises for many popular series, enthusiasts have felt that the generation didn't deliver enough. Also consider that at launch, the PS4 and Xbox One were outclassed by mildly more expensive PCs, something that didn't happen for sometime after the launch of the 360/PS3 or PS2.
ethomaz
Banned
Except clock (that changes the TFs) I believe Neo specs are final.
Polaris 36CUs (same used in RX 480 with lower clock).
With Steam PCs basically failing spectacularly; this isn't out of the realm of possibility any more. If I were Valve; I'd trade making Steam PCs / hardware for the ability to have steam games play on Xboxes in a heartbeat.
Mixolydian
Member
Plenty of people who didn't believe specs, and even a few who didn't believe it was real.
I get you saw an opening and took it, but come on.
36.
What games are you playing? I've been playing DOOM on PS4 and it looks and plays super great! I hear Uncharted looks nice too.
DuckSlayer
Banned
Lol at *overboard* there were plenty of digs by devs at neo not being enough for vr or 4k or didnt u watch the stream?
Scopio is for 4k n vr neo is for some strange in between
ethomaz
Banned
In this case Polaris will be cheaper and with even lower TDP.
Why use Vega?
And Vega will use HMB2 and Scorpio looks to use GDDR5X (the memory control are incompatibles).
Sorry fixed
If nothing else you just bump the resolution/AA/shadow quality/frame rate/etc. in other words exactly what has been done on PCs for decades but instead of a practically infinite amount of setups you have a max of 5 (new and old ps and Xbox + NX)
Bits N Pieces
Member
I'll eat that crow
It goes against everything I know in marketing a product an it was the strangest, boldest move I've seen anyone make it at E3 in years. Only time will tell how this all pans out and how they dripfeed us information over the next 12/16 months.Exciting times ahead for sure
pixelation
Member
Better specs sure... but who will take advantage of them?. It's gonna be like an artist used to making his craft with crayons and all of a sudden he is given a canvas and brushes and paint. But his customers keep requesting nothing but crayon made art, the canvas and brushes and paint all sit there just collecting dust... eh... you get my point!!!
Scorpios output will be held back by the PS4/XBO, you have better specs?, cool!!!... now watcha' gonna do with 'em?, oh... run the same games with better IQ/performance?... i see...
See?...
Scorpios output will be held back by the PS4/XBO, you have better specs?, cool!!!... now watcha' gonna do with 'em?, oh... run the same games with better IQ/performance?... i see...
See?...
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Banned
Play anywhere could take off in Germany tough. I think a good move for Europe was the announcement of language independence.
saw an opening for what? I'm not sure what you mean
-ImaginaryInsider
Member
Agreed, they just confirmed it, albeit in a more hype-able way than Sony did.
I did a quick and dirty speculative comparison, filling in the blanks by using known specifics of GCN uarch in a way that best fits the already announced numbers.
Geometry rates are derived from typical GCN "raster engine" arrangement which ties a geometry processor to a certain number of CUs (up to 16 per). I left out texel fill rates since number of TMUs is unknown, but scaling to memory interface width, Scorpio could end up with 50% more TMUs than Neo.
PS Neo:
CPU: 8 cores @ 2.1 GHz (14nm Jaguar/Puma successor)
GPU: 36 CU @ 911 Mhz => ~4.2TF , ~2.7 billion vertices/s , ~29.1 GP/s (4th gen GCN, most likely arranged into 3 raster engines with 12CU each, memory setup suggests 32 rops)
Memory: 8GB GDDR5 @ 6800 mt/s, 256 bit interface => ~218 GB/s max bandwidth
XBOX Scorpio:
CPU: 8 cores @ ? GHz (insistence on backwards compatibility suggests the same uarch as Neo: 14nm Jaguar/Puma successor)
GPU: 48 CU @ (at least) 977 MHz => ~6TF , ~3.9 billion vertices/s, ~46.9 GP/s (4th gen GCN, most likely arranged into 4 raster engines with 12CU each, memory setup suggests 48 rops)
Memory: 12GB GDDR5 @ 6700 mt/s, 348 bit interface => ~320 GB/s max bandwidth (announcement trailer PCB render shows 12 memory ICs)
Geometry rates are derived from typical GCN "raster engine" arrangement which ties a geometry processor to a certain number of CUs (up to 16 per). I left out texel fill rates since number of TMUs is unknown, but scaling to memory interface width, Scorpio could end up with 50% more TMUs than Neo.
PS Neo:
CPU: 8 cores @ 2.1 GHz (14nm Jaguar/Puma successor)
GPU: 36 CU @ 911 Mhz => ~4.2TF , ~2.7 billion vertices/s , ~29.1 GP/s (4th gen GCN, most likely arranged into 3 raster engines with 12CU each, memory setup suggests 32 rops)
Memory: 8GB GDDR5 @ 6800 mt/s, 256 bit interface => ~218 GB/s max bandwidth
XBOX Scorpio:
CPU: 8 cores @ ? GHz (insistence on backwards compatibility suggests the same uarch as Neo: 14nm Jaguar/Puma successor)
GPU: 48 CU @ (at least) 977 MHz => ~6TF , ~3.9 billion vertices/s, ~46.9 GP/s (4th gen GCN, most likely arranged into 4 raster engines with 12CU each, memory setup suggests 48 rops)
Memory: 12GB GDDR5 @ 6700 mt/s, 348 bit interface => ~320 GB/s max bandwidth (announcement trailer PCB render shows 12 memory ICs)
Yep, and they can start saying that in 18 months, meaning that Sony will have "won the spec war" for four years.
Just something to keep in mind. Game companies don't program for the most powerful console, they hit the low or mid range to make their jobs easier for multi platform. Having the 'most powerful' system doesn't always mean something, it just sounds good. I'd be more curious about exclusives (which if you listen to what they say won't exist) and just how much control you'll have over your hardware.
Mixolydian
Member
Thought you were playing a game of semantics to make him look silly. For the lolz and all.
My bad if that was incorrect.
Maximilian E.
AKA MS-Evangelist
So specs wise, what are we seeing realisticly?
8 Core Zen Summit ridge + 6 TFLOP GPU semi custom SoC
16Gb RAM? (viable or even "must" for a 2017 release?)
What perhaps it the most important thing here is perhaps the statement that they are making. Yes, all signs points to Scorpio being the most powerful console made yet.. but the fact that MS is actually pushing towards this and wanting to have it means that they will strive for the power edge even with generations after Scorpio..
I would like to see MS make more custom designs though. They have such a huge talent pool with GFX development and often contribute to lots of technical documents to SIGGRAPH. It feels like MS could to do more "pushing the envelop" with silicon, at least in regards to GFX..
Anyways.. interesting times..
8 Core Zen Summit ridge + 6 TFLOP GPU semi custom SoC
16Gb RAM? (viable or even "must" for a 2017 release?)
What perhaps it the most important thing here is perhaps the statement that they are making. Yes, all signs points to Scorpio being the most powerful console made yet.. but the fact that MS is actually pushing towards this and wanting to have it means that they will strive for the power edge even with generations after Scorpio..
I would like to see MS make more custom designs though. They have such a huge talent pool with GFX development and often contribute to lots of technical documents to SIGGRAPH. It feels like MS could to do more "pushing the envelop" with silicon, at least in regards to GFX..
Anyways.. interesting times..
Venuspower
Member
We will see. I can not see this happen.
But why did they develop the slim version then? Who will buy that one if there is a more powerfull console right around the corner for (nearly) the same price.
If they want to make Scoprio that cheap they could stay with the big XBox One and drop the price for the old console to 200€. It's much easier and cheaper (for them) if you ask me.
As said above: Why developing a Slim then? Maybe I am just to stupid to get the point behind it. For me it looks like XBox One S for a low price and Scoprio for a much higher price.
e: And if we look at GTX 1070/1080: They are the first graphic cards that can handle 4K Gaming good enough. And I cannot see Microsoft and Sony putting that power into a small console for a low price.
haha I wasn't trying to be facetious or anything
Maximilian E.
AKA MS-Evangelist
Some companies do push for top edge though..
ninjablade
Banned
there is a very small chance scorpio will use a jaguar with those specs. most likely will have a zen cpu.
The Albatross
Member
Even moreso, you're seeing software developers delivering features that were previously unheard of.
Rocket League is one of the first successful games to feature cross-console/PC support on both major consoles, and Bethesda has delivered full mod support to console games with Fallout 4 and the new Skyrim remaster.
We've had to rethink a lot of assumptions about console gaming this gen, and while the idea of Steam running on Xbox is out there, it's far fetched because of Valve and Microsoft's business relationship, not because of the technology.
I think, as someone mentioned earlier, it will be P10 with GDDR5X, which would explain why the bandwidth is bumped up to 320 GB/s. Maybe the greater power efficiency of GDDR5X will allow keeping the clock speeds high.
I don't think the Xbox division has that kind of freedom. Supposedly the other divisions of Microsoft aren't very happy with the Xbox division.
So I think one of the changes that MS expects to happen is that 3rd party developers are basically going to always go multi-platform due to the now crazy costs of game development, and that first party games aren't the main driver of console sales. Did people buy the PS4 over the X1 when it came out because they were more excited for Uncharted instead of Halo? I don't think that's true. I think people bought the PS4 because it was cheaper + was going to play 95% of the same games as the X1, and that Halo itself wasn't a reason to sway that.
So I think MS is looking at the landscape and going "well, if developers aren't going to do single console games unless given a crapton of money, maybe the new differentiating factors will be the power/price value proposition, and the ability to play across multiple systems".
ethomaz
Banned
The video shows 12 memory chips... probably 12GB... of course this can change until end of 2017.
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Banned
In this case Polaris will be cheaper and with even lower TDP.
Why use Vega?
And Vega will use HMB2 and Scorpio looks to use GDDR5X (the memory control are incompatibles).
Sorry fixed
You're probably right. But Vega could offer TDP savings with better performance.
joecanada
Member
not only that but this will basically happen every 2-3 years now. someone will come out and say "most powerful console ever!!" next year it could be neo, following year scorpio, then a couple years later ps5 and so on and so on. its not exactly groundbreaking or exciting news. what matters most is what comes out of it. games >>>> apps, media functions or other stuff.
CyberMiguel
Banned
Exactly. Today we begin the era of ecosystems rather than consoles, where the devices will matter little and the services you use will matter the most. Kind of what happens right now with software: you can have the Google services in Android and iOS and the Microsoft services in every single device you can think of.
I don't see how Sony could get an integrated ecosystem like Google and Microsoft have, but I wouldn't discard them easily. Maybe they'll build an alliance with a PC company (?)....
MilkyJoe
Member
You honestly think it's just a concept? With a release date? Jinkies...
aygomyownroad
Member
I bought my Xbox and a year and a half later it was an xbox 360 at the launch of Oblivion.
I don't mind as I got my monies worth out of the console.
If this Scorpio releases at fall 2017 then I would have had 3 and a half years out of it.
I would have my monies worth and if they stay true to their word then I can keep playing my games on it and use my controllers.
I hope they allow external hard drives for it as well.
Also I hope they keep Scorpio it's time consoles have cool names again not this crap numerical order bordem or 360 and One. It's time for the Zodiac...
I don't mind as I got my monies worth out of the console.
If this Scorpio releases at fall 2017 then I would have had 3 and a half years out of it.
I would have my monies worth and if they stay true to their word then I can keep playing my games on it and use my controllers.
I hope they allow external hard drives for it as well.
Also I hope they keep Scorpio it's time consoles have cool names again not this crap numerical order bordem or 360 and One. It's time for the Zodiac...
ethomaz
Banned
48CUs is Vega but it won't be compatible with GDDR5X.
That is why I believe in Polaris with 40CUs.
BruceLeeRoy
Banned
Yeah but they aren't going to be generational leaps between each other right Pro or am I not thinking of this correctly?
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