Support NeoGAF

[CrispyBoar]

Lol so neo is super low tier and useless next year .. Here let me google that for you ...

http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Graphics-Cards/NVIDIA-GeForce-GTX-980-Ti-6GB-Review-Matching-TITAN-X-650 980ti is 5.8 tf

Scorpio is faster than everything but latest nvidia cards .. Mid tier lol. What u smokin bro?

LOL...by the time that Scorpio is out, they'll be more GPU's that will be even more powerful than the 1070/1080 at cheaper prices.

 

[KinofChaos]

Who said anything about it being enough to beat Sony? I said it gives them a stronger identity, not that it gives them a victory.

Point is that's not enough for an identity, MS needs more the that.,

 

[BFIB]

I prefer this over new console generations. Releasing an upgraded version of the hardware and making the games scale is the right thing for consumers.

Hoping the NEO is the same strategy. Not interested in buying a PS5.

We're not sure how the scaling will work. Nothing regarding this has been announced, other than Xbox One games will work on Scorpio. Who knows if games designed for Scorpio will work w/ the original XBox One?

 

[gatti-man]

Why do people try and compare flops between PC and console? 1 TF on a console does not equal 1TF on a PC. PC gamers especially should know this.

 

[Proelite]

Why do people try and compare flops between PC and console? 1 TF on a console does not equal 1TF on a PC. PC gamers especially should know this.

Scorpio won't be a traditional console. Itll be more comporable to a PC.

 

[ethomaz]

Enthusiastic: GTX 1080ti, NEW TITAN, Dual Vega (?)
High-end: GTX 1070, GTX 1080, Vega
Mid-end: GTX 1060ti, GTX 1060, RX 480, RX 470
Low-end: GTX 1050 (?). RX 460

Scorpio's GPU is around RX 480 level (the actual close of RX 480 was not defined it can reach 6TF).

That is the actual market with some speculation from my part.

Why do people try and compare flops between PC and console? 1 TF on a console does not equal 1TF on a PC. PC gamers especially should know this.

AMD FLOPS on console is the exactly same AMD FLOPS on PC.

What are you talking about???

 

[Alpende]

I don't know shit about GPU's, FLOPS and whatnot so I just want to see differences between games when the thing comes out.

Really want to see Sony's answer too.

 

[DuckSlayer]

One thing is for sure Sonys machine is underpowered.

 

[neurophd]

Sorry for my ignorance on the topic but would backwards compatibility on Scorpio likely result in better performance for current versions of games, like less frame rate drops on Fallout 4 or would the games need to be reoptimized for the new system? Also when they say VR coming to Fallout 4 does this mean the current version of the software we own or a Scorpio version?

 

[I Reclaim3mer 117]

Why do people try and compare flops between PC and console? 1 TF on a console does not equal 1TF on a PC. PC gamers especially should know this.

The have to find ways to downplay Scorpio before it's even out you know! Lol closed console environment flops are different it's just crazy how people are going one to one with pc and Scorpio.

 

[ninjablade]

They have to conform to certain TDP limitations. Zen is a "fat" core with a far more robust cache subsystem and would output significantly more heat even clocked similarly to a proposed Jaguar successor. If they announced a 4 core CPU it would have undoubtedly been a Zen derivative but with 8 cores... it could go either way but it's more likely the leaner Jaguar/Puma successor that is also rumored for PS Neo.

that would be the biggest bottle neck ever, i doubt microsoft would be that stupid, i would definitely get a pc instead.

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

Apart from the ease of use and Xbox live.

Lmao why would you want to pay for online when it is free on PC?! How is that a bonus?

 

[michaelius]

Man if scorpio worked with steam games it'd be an insta buy for me.

Well they won't - but all Scorpio games will work with windows 10 pc

 

[cyberheater]

Enthusiastic: GTX 1080ti, NEW TITAN, Dual Vega (?)
High-end: GTX 1070, GTX 1080, Vega
Mid-end: GTX 1060ti, GTX 1060, RX 480, RX 470
Low-end: GTX 1050 (?). RX 460

That is the actual market with some speculation from my part.

I didn't know the GTX 1080i was out yet. How much was it?

 

[aftercompletion]

One thing is for sure Sonys machine is underpowered.

Why are so many people in this thread acting like it is Fall 2017 right now?

 

[Noobcraft]

Sorry for my ignorance on the topic but would backwards compatibility on Scorpio likely result in better performance for current versions of games, like less frame rate drops on Fallout 4 or would the games need to be reoptimized for the new system? Also when they say VR coming to Fallout 4 does this mean the current version of the software we own or a Scorpio version?

I assume games with dynamic resolution scaling like Halo 5 would run at a higher res assuming they don't artificially lower GPU power to match xbox one specs.

 

[IvorB]

Interesting... the times they are a-changing.

 

[ethomaz]

I didn't know the GTX 1080i was out yet. How much was it?

It is not out... most cards are to be launched yet like all AMD parts and nVidia except 1070/1080.

All of them except maybe Vega is set to launch this year.

 

[DuckSlayer]

Why are so many people in this thread acting like it is Fall 2017 right now?

Because its going to be fail 2017 for sonys machine as it aint doing premium vr or 4k ..its obvious over next 3-4 years 4k and vr will become mainstream

 

[gatti-man]

Scorpio won't be a traditional console. Itll be more comporable to a PC.

What is this?

Of course it will be a console. When a game releases for Scorpio it will have to work on two sets of hardware. It will be optimized orders of magnitude better than a gaming PC which has a million different possible setups.

This is common sense and I've been PC gaming since the 80s and build my own gaming PCs. I know what I'm talking about. Comparing flops between consoles and PCs is pointless dick waving.

Enthusiastic: GTX 1080ti, NEW TITAN, Dual Vega (?)
High-end: GTX 1070, GTX 1080, Vega
Mid-end: GTX 1060ti, GTX 1060, RX 480, RX 470
Low-end: GTX 1050 (?). RX 460

Scorpio's GPU is around RX 480 level (the actual close of RX 480 was not defined it can reach 6TF).

That is the actual market with some speculation from my part.


AMD FLOPS on console is the exactly same AMD FLOPS on PC.

What are you talking about???

See above.

 

[dose]

Releasing an upgraded version of the hardware and making the games scale is the right thing for consumers.

I totally disagree, I think it's a terrible idea, and there are many others here who think the same.

 

[-ImaginaryInsider]

Super Nintendo
Playstation 2

Now of course, it's a bit silly to attribute all of that to them just being more powerful (which is even kinda arguable in the SNES' case), but so would assuming an early release guarantees greater success be.

Yes, the clear market leaders put out their sequel console against effectively second place competition...but when has the second place competition launched later with more powerful hardware and truly displaced the sales and the momentum of the current market leader?

There is no bullet-proof strategy, I'm not claiming there is, and iterative consoles maybe a whole new ballgame, but a year of uncontested sales when you're already the market leader seems like a more reliable strategy than spec domination a year later.

It's going to be interesting to see the pricing on Neo and Scorpio...

 

[Shpeshal Nick]

This but let them dream, it's clear they want to dream f best case scenarios.

Let WHO dream?

Who is saying this will turn around the sales trajectory? I know I never did. This will be an awesome console to own but only the most hardcore of the hardcore (with spare cash) will buy it. Ditto for Neo.

 

[...Scatter...]

Halo 6 on Scorpio gives me a raging boner. Cant wait.

 

[rrc1594]

Halo 6 on Scorpio gives me a raging boner. Cant wait.

The thought of it

 

[cyberheater]

Lmao why would you want to pay for online when it is free on PC?! How is that a bonus?

Try to understand we are talking about a console here with its own ecosystem. Folks rightly love Xbox live for the service it provides.

 

[gatti-man]

I totally disagree, I think it's a terrible idea, and there are many others here who think the same.

Yes choice is terrible for consumers. When will corporations learn we desire less choice.

Lmao why would you want to pay for online when it is free on PC?! How is that a bonus?

Xbox live and psn are better systems than anything available on PC for keeping track of friends and seamlessly going between parties and chat. Steam is the closest thing and is still limited. I don't like paying for it but it is better than the systems currently available on PC.

 

[Amused]

Because its going to be fail 2017 for sonys machine as it aint doing premium vr or 4k ..its obvious over next 3-4 years 4k and vr will become mainstream

And a month before X1 Scorpio hits the shelves Sony announce their next upgrade, coming 12 months later with twice the power of the Xbox.

 

[Nzyme32]

if it has a zen cpu, its a way better deal, then xbox or even ps4.

Absolutely

 

[...Scatter...]

Lmao why would you want to pay for online when it is free on PC?! How is that a bonus?

Free games?

 

[Maintenance]

its going to be fail 2017 for sonys machine

 

[Trustus Jones]

Finally something that can rival the power of Model 3. Maybe we can get a home conversion of Daytona 2 after all these years 😉

 

[ethomaz]

See above.

Optimizations didn't change what the GPU is capable (FLOPS).

6TFs AMD on PC = 6TFs AMD on consoles

How you use these 6TFs (optimizations) can be different but that is a myth too because the optimizations difference between PC and consoles today is pretty minimal... you won't see more than 5% difference in FLOPs utilization.

 

[...Scatter...]

Finally something that can rival the power of Model 3. Maybe we can get a home conversion of Daytona 2 after all these years 😉

Those glorious sprites of color.

 

[vcc]

What is this?

Of course it will be a console. When a game releases for Scorpio it will have to work on two sets of hardware. It will be optimized orders of magnitude better than a gaming PC which has a million different possible setups.

This is common sense and I've been PC gaming since the 80s and build my own gaming PCs. I know what I'm talking about. Comparing flops between consoles and PCs is pointless dick waving.

MS will have to walk the line between 'strong encouraging' studios to optimize for the scorpio and not alienating potential partners.

It may end up a mess both ways (Sony takes the same risk). Games that run like shit on the lower end machine and aren't good enough to justify the higher end.

 

[cyberheater]

It is not out... most cards are to be launched yet like all AMD parts and nVidia except 1070/1080.

All of them except maybe Vega is set to launch this year.

So you are bucketing PC GPUs that don't even exist just to justify pissing on the specs of Scorpio. Why?

 

[El_Chino]

Scorpio won't be a traditional console. Itll be more comporable to a PC.

 

[...Scatter...]

Optimizations didn't change what the GPU is capable (FLOPS).

6TFs AMD on PC = 6TFs AMD on consoles

How you use these 6TFs (optimizations) can be different but that is a myth too because the optimizations difference between PC and consoles today is pretty minimal.

I thought most games aren't utilizing DX12 yet. You're probably rightish on the GPU side. CPU side is a different sorry for now.

 

[DuckSlayer]

I totally disagree, I think it's a terrible idea, and there are many others here who think the same.

Many people are idiots thats about the worst rationale for an argument ever .. Digital foundry just became microsofts best friend.

I play 360 games and xbox one games and soon ill play scorpio games all on one machine .. Kinda like a pc it has backwards compatibility lol cool as ...only a sony fanboy who forgot every previous ps had backwards compatibility as a feature would say thats a bad thing ( and yes there are a lot here) Hows ea noaccess going for you?

 

[Synth]

Yes, the clear market leaders put out their sequel console against effectively second place competition...but when has the second place competition launched later with more powerful hardware and truly displaced the sales and the momentum of the current market leader?

There is no bullet-proof strategy, I'm not claiming there is, and iterative consoles maybe a whole new ballgame, but a year of uncontested sales when you're already the market leader seems like a more reliable strategy than spec domination a year later.

It's going to be interesting to see the pricing on Neo and Scorpio...

Outside of one company completely shitting the bed at a console's launch (Sega with the Saturn, Sony with the PS3, and MS with the Xbox One), I can't even really think of any such example occurring regardless of launching earlier, or being more powerful. I guess the Genesis kinda works as an example of an early launch shifting momentum... but I'd put that just as much down to Nintendo being dicks to everyone in the industry at the time, and Sega being fucking exceptional.

 

[Gormenghast]

Not this again, AMD flops are not equivalent to Nvidia flops. It's actually pretty close to 980.

On *PC*.

Console hardware ALWAYS punches way, way above comparable PC specs, Nvidia or AMD.

You need close to twice the Gflops on PC for similar performance, due to crap optimization and all that. And since these changes put even more stress on the developers then you can expect even worse optimization now that they have to test a game across too many specs.

 

[lightchris]

Gonna need a lot of gb's of ram for those 4K uncompressed textures. One thing is upresing a game such as uncharted 4 to 4K while keeping 1080p texture resolution, another is having native 4K textures.

There's no such thing as 1080p or 4K textures. Texture resolution differs by each texture and is independent of rendering resolution (also texture dimensions are a power of 2).

Still, increasing texture resolutions is a good thing obviously, but memory demands won't inherently explode just because a 4K resolution may be targeted.

edit:

On *PC*.

Console hardware ALWAYS punches way, way above comparable PC specs, Nvidia or AMD.

You need close to twice the Gflops on PC for similar performance, due to crap optimization and all that. And since these changes put even more stress on the developers then you can expect even worse optimization now that they have to test a game across too many specs.

Just not true, disproven by pretty much all benchmarks you can find. A 750 Ti performs about on par with PS4 while having less TFLOPS.

 

[gatti-man]

Optimizations didn't change what the GPU is capable (FLOPS).

6TFs AMD on PC = 6TFs AMD on consoles

How you use these 6TFs (optimizations) can be different but that is a myth too because the optimizations difference between PC and consoles today is pretty minimal... you won't see more than 5% difference in FLOPs utilization.

Ha ok. You're wrong and I'll leave it at that. There is a huge difference between TF performance on consoles vs PCs. It's been that way for as long as I can remember. It's more around 10-25% depending on the software and how much time is spent in dedicating it to the hardware.

 

[poodaddy]

Because its going to be fail 2017 for sonys machine as it aint doing premium vr or 4k ..its obvious over next 3-4 years 4k and vr will become mainstream

Dude you and kinofchaos are both fucking embarrassing, can you guys just take the console war bs to pm or something and let this thread be about positively discussing how great it is that great hardware upgrades are in the future, for literally everyone. It's pretty awesome really, and there's no need to argue or get involved in console wars.

Also.... Fail 2017? I've never cringed so hard, grow up man.

 

[ethomaz]

So you are bucketing PC GPUs that don't even exist just to justify pissing on the specs of Scorpio. Why?

Wut?

These are the actual generation of GPUs... AMD launch this month like the RX 480 at $199/$229 (mid-tier like Scorpio's GPU).

nVidia GTX 1060 (another mid-tier Scorpio level) will probably be launch before August.

GTX 9xx and R9 3xx is old gen already.

 

[The Real Napsta]

Lmao why would you want to pay for online when it is free on PC?! How is that a bonus?

PC has cheaters galore, Xbox doesn't have that problem for the most part.

 

[Haribi]

6 Teraflops? Isn't that what the 1070 is putting on the table now? So that means by the time they release Scorpio we'll have new cards from Nvidia that are already more powerful.

What did you expect? Unless people are willing to pay close to a grand on a console, it will never have the best GPU on the market. A 1070 is actually amazing for a console.

 

[icespide]

wow Duck is still around?

 

[...Scatter...]

wow Duck is still around?

It really is a Christmas miracle

 

[ethomaz]

Ha ok. You're wrong and I'll leave it at that. There is a huge difference between TF performance on consoles vs PCs. It's been that way for as long as I can remember. It's more around 10-25% depending on the software and how much time is spent in dedicating it to the hardware.

lol c'mon it is the same hardware in PC and consoles... same AMD FLOPs... there is no way to be different.

What you are talking is optimization and not FLOPs.