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Mass shooting at Orlando gay nightclub [50 dead, 53 injured]

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He could also have been carrying higher bullet count magazines, or even carried a bag of magazines in with him.

According to a snap chat video (front page of smh.com.au) that includes noise from the shooter, he was firing fast, and continuously.

he was firing about four rounds a second, and I heard a pause of about half a second between two groups of six shots. The video was literally only 3 seconds long.

My experience is only firing a hand gun in a shooting range in vegas but what I heard on that video sounded close to an automatic weapon. Not a machine gun, but as near as dammit as makes little difference.

edit: I looked it up and an AR-15 can have a 30 round clip, and can be fired *much faster than you can pull the trigger*. He was pulling the trigger 3 to 4 times a second.
 
I just want to ask, how did he actually get into the club? Usually there are bouncers or a queue at the door (but this was around 2am I presume). Not that I'd expect any sort of bouncer to be able to stop a maniac wielding an AR.
 
Agreed. I can't fathom how one casually glances past the fact that this was an anti-LBGT hate crime and simultaneously a terror attack. It doesn't have to be nor should it be one or the other.

The discussion of this terrible tragedy needs to be made in three fronts simultaneously:

-This person who's once in a terror watchlist having access to a firearm.

-The perversion of Islam as a excuse and perverted justification to conduct acts of terrorism.

-The serious homophobic attitudes in many cultures.

damn how did i not know about this one? that's all kinds of fucked up
 
I just want to ask, how did he actually get into the club? Usually there are bouncers or a queue at the door (but this was around 2am I presume). Not that I'd expect any sort of bouncer to be able to stop a maniac wielding an AR.

He was stopped at the door by armed officers (IIRC) and shot his way in
 
I haven't really seen this addressed in this (now huge) thread, but how in the world did this one individual manage to kill or wound ~100 out of ~300 without using any kind of explosives? How many rounds did this person have, and how did they carry all that ammo?

To kill or wound 1/3 of such a large group seems like an insane ratio. Did this person block the exits or something? Something seems off to me about this.

Sounds like he may have had an accomplice.

http://www.tmj4.com/news/local-news/arrest-to-be-made-of-alleged-accomplice-in-orlando-mass-shooting

Can anyone vouch for the quality of this source?
 
he used religious extremism to justify his bigotry... then was able to buy guns.

religious nuttery and homophobia are not mutually exclusive

right that's what i mean. this country is a breeding ground for that kind of nonsense. but there's nothing to be gained from arguing about religious sects. the problem is larger than any one religion.
 
Sure, but that's a minimum of 4 magazines, assuming only one bullet per victim. That seems extremely unlikely, even for someone with a lot of military experience (which this individual lacked). If we assume something more reasonable like 3 bullets per victim, then the magazine count is more like 10-11. That's a lot of magazines.

There just seem like some logistical aspects of this that aren't totally adding up for me. Weren't there like 1500 people at the hall of the Paris attack, with 3 people killing ~90? This person seems efficient in a way that is hard to believe.


It's not about a conspiracy, I'm just genuinely confused about how something like this is possible for one person without explosives.

ammo isn't that heavy and multiple shots likely went through multiple victims as he fired. That's one the reasons we should clamp down on high capacity mags - there's not a single damn logical reason for them to exist or be needed even for hunting or self defense.
 
I just want to ask, how did he actually get into the club? Usually there are bouncers or a queue at the door (but this was around 2am I presume). Not that I'd expect any sort of bouncer to be able to stop a maniac wielding an AR.

It was near closing time, he walked in, had a shoot out with an off duty policeman.
 
I dunno, it makes much more sense to me that this is the reason why he attacked the club then someone who wasn't really religious and pledged loyalty to both ISIS and Hezbollah.
 
Holy shit. This guy was in the closet and so self-loathing thanks to his dad and religion that he took it out on other gay folks?

What. the. fuck.
 
it could be that he was casing the club and stalking gay people. probably best to wait for more evidence to surface before drawing any conclusions.
 
Certainly seems like an anti-gay type of crime. Unfortunately nobody can divorce the underlying motivation for his killing spree and anti-gay sentiments, no matter how hard some of the media tries.
 
Reading more from the clickhole website:

This weekend’s Orlando, FL nightclub shooting is just the latest in a long, bloody trend that has been fueled by our country’s extraordinarily lax gun laws. As Americans, we can no longer stand idly by and tolerate a regulatory climate that permits horrific atrocities to occur with such frequency. It is our moral duty to reach out to our elected officials and demand that they ask the NRA for permission to enact extremely modest gun control measures.

Who exactly runs the country?
 
It's been really hard today. I'm still in shock and grief stricken especially now that the victims have been named and stories are starting to come out and things are now more personal. I don't personally know anyone who was a victim of the mass murder but I have a friend who was friends with one of the victims who got killed.

I live in LA but this really hits home because the gay community is small as it is. Each city usually have one or two popular gay clubs. Anyone that lives or has visited in Orlando has visited this club. It really could have been me or my friends if we were in the wrong place in the wrong time. This terror attack is really hitting me and my community really hard.
 
Reposting my facebook post here as it sums up some of my thoughts.

Violent, hateful and painful reminder in Orlando yesterday that homophobia is still rife despite the progress the world has made.
It's far past the time that the Muslim community recognises the problem of homophobia within the community and starts to challenge it. It's perfectly within the norm for hate speech towards LGBT people within the Muslim community and worse still it rarely gets challenged particularly from within. LGBT people are dehumanised and made invisible within these communities, and when this isn't challenged LGBT people become targets.
It is NOT good enough to say that someones beliefs are ok because they are non violent and should therefore simply be left to it. Violence is not the only negative manifestation of hate. Any homophobic belief whether violent or not is contributing towards a culture of fear and dehumanisation which leads to tragedies like this. This might hurt some feelings but with 50 people dead and many many more seriously hurt by homophobia tackling the issue takes precedent over your feelings.
This responsibility falls not just on the preachers, not just on the community leaders but on all voices within the community. It falls on the younger generation, it falls on the parents and it falls on the teachers. It is everyone's responsibility to make the world a better place for all of us including LGBT people.
It's sad to see people act like it's not an issue within Muslim and Asian/Arab communities in the west. Of course it's a complicated web of problems and ideas that caused the gunman to go on with his attack. The issues certainly include poor gun control in the US, security failings, probably personal life problems which contributed to the hardening of his feelings etc but to ignore his beliefs about homosexuality which are clearly influenced by his faith is disingenuous.
LGBT people deserve better. We deserve to feel safe within all communities. Safe to be who we are and not what people wished we were.
 

I was just about to post that I think he's a self-hating closet case and deleted it as being without any actual basis. Well there it is. I am not surprised. He was raised by a bigoted father in a homophobic religion. When the cold hard light of the reality of his immutable nature shone on his religious indoctrination, what happened?

Mateen must have been a very sick individual with additional issues and I won't make excuses for him but the pieces are starting to come together. He also has two f'ed up marriages to women to add to the clues. He hated nobody more than the people who could be what he couldn't be: who they are. Homophobia kills by both suicide and homocide and wastes lives of innocents including unwitting straight spouses.

We must seek ways to combat it and that includes not coddling religious sentiments which go against all scientific and psychological knowledge about sexual orientation.
 
Okay:

In Christianity, Catholics and Protestants consider each other atheists. Each sub sect that isn't as big as that two STILL considers all the other sects functionally atheists and heathens. There are Christian churches that do not even do baptism as a ritual.

In Judiasm, there's Reform and Orthodox, and subsects.

Islam is split the same way.


And of all 3 of those, there a lot of people that are just 'culturally' that religion, ie they grew up in it but mostly nap in the back of the oom and put up with it because that's what makes life easier, but they don't completely leave the social circle either.

The idea that all Muslims interpret and follow Islam the same way is bullshit fed to you by dickstilts like Richard Dawkins. like, straight up 5 minutes of googling will show you the sunni/shiite split already indicating to someone that Islam isn't any more capable of lockstep agreement than anyone else. Every christian sect also thinks their interpretation and wording is the literal one. The Quran being officially only in Arabic doesn't even prevent reinterpretation because Arabic has also changed a bit over the centuries.

What would be more accurate is that the issue is with the wahhabist sect - roughly the equivalent of the KKK movement here in the US and Europe except they've successfully become the government and held it. They consider every non-wahhabist Muslism an apostate much like the KKK did for Catholics.

Either way, unless one is ever going to follow up the "problem with Islam" with what they want to say how they're going to solve it.. our problem is not the religion of Islam. The problem is kookoo nutbar criminals have access to the Amazon River of Guns here in our country.

Again you are basing your analogy as if Islam /Quran is viewed same way as Christians do bible and the denominations shape up with reasoning based on path that Christianity did.

Before I tackle that point , no I don't need Richard Dawkins , I was raised a devout Muslim in a Muslim country with Islamic mandatory studies through grade equivalent of 1 to 10. While learnning private lessons in memorizing Quran

Back to the question of why Islam and Quran has a unique problem. And then I'll bring it with cultural Muslim that stays in back row and thinking about how he will feed his family.

We know they are many authors of Old Testament , we know New Testament gospel are word of 4 account of Jesus life , we gospel themself contradicts with some details within each other, we know Paul wrote many books , we know Paul challenge Old Testament and the law. There is huge diversity in the bible. Many authors , contradictions, abrogation , etc

None of that absolutely none of that exist in Quran . It's one man word . Not many authors . It's one man , who revealed the message for God . That is right there differentiate with bible diversity

Hadith , which are actually like the gospels . Meaning , they are account of prophet Moe everyday life . Here just like gospels we have many authors, and wouldn't you know it this is where we find lots of diversity. So to keep it simple both Sunni/Shia both have that one Quran but give different Hadith preferences . But , even in this diversity , the source is still the same man Moe

So no matter what happens, every school of thought goes back to Quran for final validation. What Quran does have in common with Old Testament is that it's not just a spritual guide but also book of rules of how to live everyday life in what to eat , who to marry , how much inheritance for women , how many witnesses ect. All of that which is ignored by the Christian in Old Testament because of its diversity that Paul bought to cut old law, doesn't exist in Islam . There is nothing within Islam to challenge it. It's a horrid circle.

Even then if you can't see the obviousness I can't help it. Of course there is diversity among Muslims, cultural sure , some don't even believe in God but still say they are Muslim . But I am not talking about outliers , even the guy who is in back with his head down during Friday sermon will beat the shit out of his daughter or son if they tell him they are homosexual

You think Wahhabism is KKK . You can't be more wrong.

Please watch the video below


https://youtu.be/pSPvnFDDQHk

This isn't just USA problem. It's a Muslim world problem
 
I believe the shooter was in fact fighting homosexual feelings and the insecurities that come with it. Maybe he was fighting between two ideologies in his head. The massive bigotry and homosexuality persona and the one that was actually gay. Earlier on a Reddit a transgender camgirl swears to have had him as a customer. I could see the shooter going absolutely batshit crazy within his own head with his feelings and the amount of pressure religion pushed on him. Also, a Drag Queen says that Omar was actually a friend here. His father never stated that he was sad or upset that his son was dead. He didn't state he was sad for the victims. He just said that the event was horrific and he couldn't believe it. His father probably knew that his son was fighting his own "demons".

Also, his father just posted a video interview stating that he believes his son did it because of "what homosexuals are and do". Also states "God is the one who punishes gays, not people". Sounds homophobic just like my previous thoughts.
 
Reposting my facebook post here as it sums up some of my thoughts.
We must seek ways to combat it and that includes not coddling religious sentiments which go against all scientific and psychological knowledge about sexual orientation.

Muslim groups are actively trying to bridge the gap with LGBT people.

It's a start, but I wouldn't expect it from most Muslim communities outside the West for the foreseeable future.
 
Back to the question of why Islam and Quran has a unique problem...

There is nothing within Islam to challenge it. It's a horrid circle...


This isn't just USA problem. It's a Muslim world problem

Stahp. You pretend to know stuff, but all you're really doing is spewing hatred. There are so many gaps in your knowledge, you're actually dangerously ignorant. Giving the visage that it's okay to hate an entire 1bn+ population, because according to you there's no hope of that group for reconciliation with the rest of the world?

All you're doing is moving hatred of one group to another. You're just moving the reticule as far as I can see.

I understand that you are an ex-muslim, so you have an interesting insight, but you do yourself a disservice by being unable to actually study the texts more than just reading them off anti-islamic blogs. Be honest, is that not what you do?
 
Maybe this was right sometime in the past. But Catholicism has come a very long way when it comes to interfaith reconciliation.

That's also fucking false.
Catholicism consider the other form of Christianism Heresy.
Jews and Muslims are Infidels.
Atheists are on the same standing as pagans.
And true they've come a long way since them then.
 
Stahp. You pretend to know stuff, but all you're really doing is spewing hatred. There are so many gaps in your knowledge, you're actually dangerously ignorant. Giving the visage that it's okay to hate an entire 1bn+ population, because according to you there's no hope of that group for reconciliation with the rest of the world?

All you're doing is moving hatred of one group to another. You're just moving the reticule as far as I can see.

I understand that you are an ex-muslim, so you have an interesting insight, but you do yourself a disservice by being unable to actually study the texts more than just reading them off anti-islamic blogs. Be honest, is that not what you do?

Staph?

No , this isn't Saudi where you stop people because they disagree with your ideology. In fact i find your "anti-Islamic blog" insulting. Only thing I posted in that was a video by a Sunni Muslim

You want to say I have a bad argument . Break it down .

I also liked how you are using the islamophobia card " hating 1billion " get the fuck out of here
 
Yep, no need to change any laws.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/break...dont-make-the-laws/ar-AAgZK6k?ocid=spartanntp

The Florida gun dealer who sold a handgun and a rifle to the Orlando massacre suspect said Monday that his conscience is clear.

"It's horrible but I don't make the laws. I abide by them," Ed Henson of the St. Lucie Shooting Center, a range and gun shop in Port Saint Lucie, not far from where nightclub shooter Omar Mateen said.

"My heartfelt condolences for the family and victims and I can't imagine the horror they face," Henson, a former NYPD police officer, added. "I did everything by the book. I'm not going to be made into a villain."

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms confirmed on Sunday evening that Mateen was carrying a .223 caliber AR-type rifle and a 9mm semiautomatic pistol when he opened fire at the Pulse club, killing 49 and injuring more than 50.

Authorities said both were bought legally. Henson said Mateen passed a background check.

ATF agents showed up at the St. Lucie Shooting Center after the tragedy and were still there Monday afternoon.

"We've been cooperating with them and other law enforcement agencies," Henson said. "We did nothing wrong."
 
Wait...Mateen's wife said he was considering targeting Downtown Disney/Disney Springs also? They visited it back in April and he was telling her about it.

What the fuck?

And if she knew, and is speaking to the FBI about it, shouldn't that make her an accessory? Lock her up. Seriously.

Omar Mateen and his wife, Noor Zahi Salman, visited Walt Disney World in April, the source says. Salman told federal authorities on Sunday that her husband had more recently been "scouting Downtown Disney and Pulse [nightclub] for attacks."

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/break...y-world-as-potential-target-source/ar-AAgZ999

I live 5 minutes away from Downtown Disney and visit it VERY often. And this scares the fuck out of me.
 
Wait...Mateen's wife said he was considering targeting Downtown Disney/Disney Springs also? They visited it back in April and he was telling her about it.

What the fuck?

And if she knew, and is speaking to the FBI about it, shouldn't that make her an accessory? Lock her up. Seriously.



http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/break...y-world-as-potential-target-source/ar-AAgZ999

I live 5 minutes away from Downtown Disney and visit it VERY often. And this scares the fuck out of me.

How the fuck is she not arrested?
 
Even more interesting is the cbs news article on the gunman's father

n the video posted early Monday, Seddique Mateen says his son was well-educated and respectful to his parents, and that he was "not aware what motivated him to go into a gay club and kill 50 people."

The elder Mateen says he was saddened by his son's actions during the Muslim holy month of Ramadan.

He then adds: "God will punish those involved in homosexuality," saying it's, "not an issue that humans should deal with."

The Taliban Islamic extremist movement is comprised almost entirely of Pashtuns, and Mateen's show takes a decidedly Pashtun nationalistic, pro-Taliban slant; full of anti-U.S. rhetoric and inflammatory language aimed at non-Pashtuns and at Pakistan, the source told Logan.

The name of the show references the Durand line, the disputed border between Afghanistan and Pakistan that was established in the 19th century by Britain. It has long been at the heart of deep-seated mistrust between Afghans and Pakistanis.

Seddique Mateen once campaigned in the United States for current Afghan President Ashraf Ghani -- seen as a moderate leader -- who appeared on his program in 2014. But since then Seddique has turned against Ghani in both his broadcasts and numerous videos posted to a Facebook account.

In his Facebook videos, the alleged gunman's father has often appeared wearing a military uniform and declaring himself the leader of a "transitional revolutionary government" of Afghanistan. He claims to have his own intelligence agency and close ties to the U.S. Congress -- assets he says he will use to subvert Pakistani influence and take control of Afghanistan.

red flags all over the place.
 
Wow:

Ty Smith and Chris Callen recalled the eventual killer being escorted drunk from the Pulse bar on multiple occasions, including one incident where he pointed a knife at a friend.

Both professed shock at seeing his face on TV: "It's the same guy," said Callen, who performs under the name Kristina McLaughlin. "He's been going to this bar for at least three years."
 
Stahp. You pretend to know stuff, but all you're really doing is spewing hatred. There are so many gaps in your knowledge, you're actually dangerously ignorant. Giving the visage that it's okay to hate an entire 1bn+ population, because according to you there's no hope of that group for reconciliation with the rest of the world?

All you're doing is moving hatred of one group to another. You're just moving the reticule as far as I can see.

I understand that you are an ex-muslim, so you have an interesting insight, but you do yourself a disservice by being unable to actually study the texts more than just reading them off anti-islamic blogs. Be honest, is that not what you do?

what are you even talking about throwing that islamaphobia card down

You do know that you can be critical of Islam and not be "ISLAMAPHOBIC" right?

If you think that Islam has NOTHING to do with an ISIL supporter massacring homosexuals, your head is buried in the sand and covered in concrete.
 
http://abc7ny.com/news/man-orlando-gunman-used-dating-app-to-ask-about-gay-clubs/1383103/

Kevin West said the shooter, 29-year-old Omar Mateen, contacted him three months ago through a dating app called Jack'd.

"When he first contacted me, he was saying things like, 'What clubs are popping and things of that sort, what are good places to go?'" West said. "And I remember telling him, 'Oh, you can just look it up online because I don't go out that much."

West said he didn't think anything of it at the time. On Sunday morning, he said he met with FBI agents and showed them his communications with Mateen.

"dating app", it's a sex app, but still.
 
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