Xbox Project Scorpio Announced - 6TFlops, 320GB/s - Fall 2017

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I don't see why any sane developer would aim for native 4K when they can just upscale and have a considerably better looking game. Users don't know the difference anyway. They set their console to 2160p and think it's 4K.

I'm curious if the top PC GPUs of the time will be able to push multi-platform games to 60Hz at the same level of fidelity seen on the Scorpio at 30Hz.
 
Everything is fine and dandy with me and it will be a day one for me, because Xbox simply is my thing. However they better not pull that nonsense they did with Xbox One's launch, in how they skipped some countries for a full year and people here had to import one. I live in Holland/The Netherlands and we had to wait a full year for the One to release here.

Don't do that shit again please MS.
 
hooijdonk17 said:
Slow down. There have been cases and times in the past when AMD processors lacked instructions that Intel CPUs supported or vice versa. While in general PC computing this is not a problem, if a certain Xbone game used an instruction set or a function on a Jaguar CPU in an unexpected manner that is not supported on Zen for whatever reason, it could possibly be a problem. I did not say that it will be a massive problem, I just said they would be risking backwards compatibility issues. Even in PC computing shit like this happens, modern CPUs can break older games, causing you to disable certain instruction sets, functions, features or number of cores, despite being completely backwards compatible.
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Well, if you code for cache awareness to a certain level or use certain uarch sets, this *might* be a problem but something that MS is clearly aware of and will be solved. Customers shouldn't care about that in any way and also shouldn't be worried.
 
SeeNoWeevil said:
I'm curious if the top PC GPUs of the time will be able to push multi-platform games to 60Hz at the same level of fidelity seen on the Scorpio at 30Hz.
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Yes, absolutely (at the same settings).
There will be single GPUs which are at least twice as fast in the relevant metrics.
 
So they had nothing to show regarding this at all outside of saying "6 tflops!!!"?

Yeah, this clearly wasn't anywhere near ready to be announced. Show, don't tell.
 
TLZ said:
6TF sounds awesome now, but will it be 'very powerful' come holiday 2017?
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it will most definitely be the most powerful console available since it looks like the PS4 Neo will be significantly weaker. compared to PC, right now, it is quite powerful. I think it's about the same as an 980 Ti or slightly more powerful. i think 4k 30fps is what the Scorpio will aim for. definitely not 4k 60fps. there isn't really a single card out for PC that can yet manage 4k 60fps. the closest is the 1080 which is apparently 9TF. the 1080 Ti which is due out early 2017 should manage 4k 60fps fine.

right now, it's powerful, but over a year from now it will be mid-range. that said, it will still be a huge performance boost. right now the XB1 is struggling to do 1080p 30fps. a lot of games are 900p or even 720p. 4k resolution is exactly double 1080p resolution.
 
blly155 said:
it will most definitely be the most powerful console available since it looks like the PS4 Neo will be significantly weaker. compared to PC, right now, it is quite powerful. I think it's about the same as an 980 Ti or slightly more powerful. i think 4k 30fps is what the Scorpio will aim for. definitely not 4k 60fps. there isn't really a single card out for PC that can yet manage 4k 60fps. the closest is the 1080 which is apparently 9TF. the 1080 Ti which is due out early 2017 should manage 4k 60fps fine.

right now, it's powerful, but over a year from now it will be mid-range. that said, it will still be a huge performance boost. right now the XB1 is struggling to do 1080p 30fps. a lot of games are 900p or even 720p. 4k resolution is exactly double 1080p resolution.
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I think Sony is going to change some things. I just don't believe they are ok to have the inferior console in terms of power. I definitely believe they had plans for Neo during this E3 but cancelled them. I could be wrong, but it just felt to me that something was missing during Sony's show.

The only confirmation we have from Sony is that Neo is a thing,but no official info on specs or anything. We all expect it to launch this year, but maybe it won't after all. It should be interesting to see how this will unfold,
 
timberger said:
So they had nothing to show regarding this at all outside of saying "6 tflops!!!"?

Yeah, this clearly wasn't anywhere near ready to be announced. Show, don't tell.
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This already leaked a while ago and developers are going to be working on it. Not talking about it doesn't hide its existence and just means the buzz is controlled by everyone but them. Might as well announce early and own the discussion.
 
History keeps repeating itself: Neither the PS3 or 360 were powerful enough for HD resolution ten years ago, and neither the Neo nor the Scorpion can handle 4k.

But I'm sure PS5/Xbox whatever-the-fuck-they-call-it-this-time will handle it just fine.
 
Tatsumi Oga said:
I think Sony is going to change some things. I just don't believe they are ok to have the inferior console in terms of power. I definitely believe they had plans for Neo during this E3 but cancelled them. I could be wrong, but it just felt to me that something was missing during Sony's show.

The only confirmation we have from Sony is that Neo is a thing,but no official info on specs or anything. We all expect it to launch this year, but maybe it won't after all. It should be interesting to see how this will unfold,
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totally agree with you. i found it a bit odd they didn't talk about it. back when rumours started floating about it was said that the PS4 Neo would be due out before or at the same time as the PSVR so an E3 announcement seemed quite likely. now of course they aren't talking about it so i guess it will come out a bit later. maybe early next year.

personally, i own a PS4 and have a lot of digital games so i really don't want to start over again on Xbox. i hope Sony are working on improving the specs of the Neo. i've read that it's GPU is similar to that of an RX 480 but downclocked due to cooling. if all they do is improve the clocks then that isn't really gonna be enough to hold up to the scorpio. they will need to use a more powerful GPU if they want to maintain a performance advanced over the scorpio.
 
blly155 said:
totally agree with you. i found it a bit odd they didn't talk about it. back when rumours started floating about it was said that the PS4 Neo would be due out before or at the same time as the PSVR so an E3 announcement seemed quite likely. now of course they aren't talking about it so i guess it will come out a bit later. maybe early next year.

personally, i own a PS4 and have a lot of digital games so i really don't want to start over again on Xbox. i hope Sony are working on improving the specs of the Neo. i've read that it's GPU is similar to that of an RX 480 but downclocked due to cooling. if all they do is improve the clocks then that isn't really gonna be enough to hold up to the scorpio. they will need to use a more powerful GPU if they want to maintain a performance advanced over the scorpio.
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They have plenty of opportunities to reveal it this year. You'd think they kinda have to, with the reports of devkits already being sent out. I wonder what they realistically can do at this point to at least be on par with the Scorpio, if the reports about the devkits are legit of course.
 
SeeNoWeevil said:
I hope so!


Only if games stand still. Which they're not doing. At all.

More powerful consoles are making it even less likely. 4K60 isn't happening any time soon.
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true. they might be able to handle games that are out just now at 4K 60FPS but a game that releases next year not so much.
 
blly155 said:
it will most definitely be the most powerful console available since it looks like the PS4 Neo will be significantly weaker. compared to PC, right now, it is quite powerful. I think it's about the same as an 980 Ti or slightly more powerful. i think 4k 30fps is what the Scorpio will aim for. definitely not 4k 60fps. there isn't really a single card out for PC that can yet manage 4k 60fps. the closest is the 1080 which is apparently 9TF. the 1080 Ti which is due out early 2017 should manage 4k 60fps fine.

right now, it's powerful, but over a year from now it will be mid-range. that said, it will still be a huge performance boost. right now the XB1 is struggling to do 1080p 30fps. a lot of games are 900p or even 720p. 4k resolution is exactly double 1080p resolution.
Click to expand...

That does not look like double to me:

edit-4k.png
 
IAmAnAgnostic said:
Revealing it this early and with almost no information makes no sense to me. How would this not cannibalize Xbox One sales in the coming 18 months?
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The entire point of this ecosystem strategy is to let people enter the market at a price they are comfortable with, and upgrade when the time and price is right for them. Anyone that has waited this long to get a new console aren't going to wait another 17 months in order to pay the premium price that they were avoiding to begin with. The people that buy a console in the first three years are part of a different market from those that buy consoles in the later years.
 
MS done screwed up - they had sold me an S until this announcement. I'm now on the fence between this and the Neo as my main console next year. Seeing Sony's game lineup though I am heavily leaning Neo at this point
 
SeeNoWeevil said:
I don't see why any sane developer would aim for native 4K when they can just upscale and have a considerably better looking game. Users don't know the difference anyway. They set their console to 2160p and think it's 4K.

I'm curious if the top PC GPUs of the time will be able to push multi-platform games to 60Hz at the same level of fidelity seen on the Scorpio at 30Hz.
Click to expand...

R9 480 is rumoured to be around 5.5 TFLOPS and IIRC they announced it would be around $200

The GTX 1080 is 9 TFLOPS so if the relative price/performance ratios stay the same as the 980 vs 960 -- the 1060 should land at about 5.5 TFLOPS and be around $218


So in a year's time that's probably going to be around a $200 performance graphics wise vs PC


The PS4 OTOH launched with about $135 of performance graphics wise being kind of in between just shy of the $139 R7 260X which launched a few weeks after.

So I guess they've moved up from lower mid-level graphics to upper mid level graphics PC wise.
 
blly155 said:
it will most definitely be the most powerful console available since it looks like the PS4 Neo will be significantly weaker. compared to PC, right now, it is quite powerful. I think it's about the same as an 980 Ti or slightly more powerful. i think 4k 30fps is what the Scorpio will aim for. definitely not 4k 60fps. there isn't really a single card out for PC that can yet manage 4k 60fps. the closest is the 1080 which is apparently 9TF. the 1080 Ti which is due out early 2017 should manage 4k 60fps fine.

right now, it's powerful, but over a year from now it will be mid-range. that said, it will still be a huge performance boost. right now the XB1 is struggling to do 1080p 30fps. a lot of games are 900p or even 720p. 4k resolution is exactly double 1080p resolution.
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For a console you can't ask for more (for a reasonable price).
 
BondFancy said:
I'm guessing $499 as well. As an Xbox One day one owner I'm fine with $499, however that's my max. I don't think we will see $399. I'd love to be wrong though.
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Judging by relative chip prices I think it's going to cost about the same as a 1080 so around $450 BoM for their lower storage option

So it's probably going to retail for $499
 
blly155 said:
it will most definitely be the most powerful console available since it looks like the PS4 Neo will be significantly weaker. compared to PC, right now, it is quite powerful. I think it's about the same as an 980 Ti or slightly more powerful. i think 4k 30fps is what the Scorpio will aim for. definitely not 4k 60fps. there isn't really a single card out for PC that can yet manage 4k 60fps. the closest is the 1080 which is apparently 9TF. the 1080 Ti which is due out early 2017 should manage 4k 60fps fine.

right now, it's powerful, but over a year from now it will be mid-range. that said, it will still be a huge performance boost. right now the XB1 is struggling to do 1080p 30fps. a lot of games are 900p or even 720p. 4k resolution is exactly double 1080p resolution.
Click to expand...
You can't really compare PC benchmarks to what a console developer will shoot for. There are optimization differences, and a lot of people seem to forget that almost all PC benchmarks are done at max settings. Consoles developers are never going to aim for the equivalent to PC max settings, as a lot of the time the difference between high and ultra has little visual impact while suffering a hefty performance hit. Will every game be 4K60, hell no, but I bet things like Forza hit that mark. It will all depend on the game, and the target hardware.
 
blly155 said:
personally, i own a PS4 and have a lot of digital games so i really don't want to start over again on Xbox. i hope Sony are working on improving the specs of the Neo. i've read that it's GPU is similar to that of an RX 480 but downclocked due to cooling. if all they do is improve the clocks then that isn't really gonna be enough to hold up to the scorpio. they will need to use a more powerful GPU if they want to maintain a performance advanced over the scorpio.
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The gulf doesn't seem too big. RX 480 is 5.5tflop. It seems like it will be a customized 480.
 
pottymouth said:
The gulf doesn't seem too big. RX 480 is 5.5tflop. It seems like it will be a customized 480.
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Don't let the branding fool you!


The R9 480 is a $200 chip that's probably going to be about $150 by next year. When the PS4 was released, it had performance just shy of the R7 260X which launched a few weeks after at $140.
 
Atleast we're in the vicinity of a 980 right now. Earlier there was crazy talk about how a RX480 was "high end" when I suggested it was mid-tier now and would most likely be low mid-tier by Fall 2017.

cyberheater said:
Lol. What rubbish.

More like high end now, mid tire when it comes out.
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Gormenghast said:
On *PC*.

Console hardware ALWAYS punches way, way above comparable PC specs, Nvidia or AMD.

You need close to twice the Gflops on PC for similar performance, due to crap optimization and all that. And since these changes put even more stress on the developers then you can expect even worse optimization now that they have to test a game across too many specs.
Click to expand...
 
andromeduck said:
Don't let the branding fool you!


The R9 480 is a $200 chip that's probably going to be about $150 by next year. When the PS4 was released, it had performance just shy of the R7 260X which launched a few weeks after at $140.
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I don't know too much about GPU's

but if I used a R7 260X could it push games to look and perform like they do on PS4. For example, DOOM?
 
Bsigg12 said:
AMD already said they will be shipping a Zen based APU next year, so this sounds like it's that.
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Oh. Well that makes it at least an possibility. Still APU with Zen cores should be more expensive than with Jaguar cores so it could still be a cost related problem. I think this gen has pretty much showed that you can't go over $399 with the price of a console.
 
With the specs that we know so far and if it does what they say t will,I think this will be 499 minimum,could go even higher then that...by the end of 2017,I will need to upgrade my 5 year old PC and depending on the price of Scorpio,not quite sure what I will do...but I will certainly go 4K(new everything,like I did for HD with the launch of the 360).
 
CCIE said:
MS done screwed up - they had sold me an S until this announcement. I'm now on the fence between this and the Neo as my main console next year. Seeing Sony's game lineup though I am heavily leaning Neo at this point
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So you were going to buy an S, but Scorpio announcement made you go towards NEO? WTF, explain the logic here, please. Unless you were always buying NEO, meaning you were happy to put money down for an S, even still, by not buying the S you can put that money towards Scorpio. In no scenario does your conclusion make any sense. Sorry.
 
Jumeira said:
So you were going to buy an S, but Scorpio announcement made you go towards NEO? WTF, explain the logic here, please. Unless you were always buying NEO, S was a recent decision, even still, by not buying the S you can put that money towards Scorpio. In no scenario does your conclusion make any sense. Sorry.
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Don't believe his lies (not that you did... but you get the point). :P
 
So what does forward compatible mean.. When an new Xbox generation comes out, I can still play it with the Scorpio? Really buying this if true instead of an gaming pc.. game changer
 
Jumeira said:
So you were going to buy an S, but Scorpio announcement made you go towards NEO? WTF, explain the logic here, please. Unless you were always buying NEO, S was a recent decision, even still, by not buying the S you can put that money towards Scorpio. In no scenario does your conclusion make any sense. Sorry.
Click to expand...

He posted the same thing in another thread and I called him out. Such BS.
 
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