Zelda: Breath of the Wild is the most talked about game on social media

So yeah. Combine that, plus Zelda's massive fanbase, the fact that Nintendo has the most loyal fans in the game, and that people love an underdog? Zelda was ALWAYS going to be the most talked about game.
Sure.

But mainly it's how the game looks fucking awesome.
 
Well, yeah. Nintendo circle-jerk aside, there's one thing they do I like: show the game. Like, it took forever but they finally doing it.

In stark contrast, let's take Spider-Man PS4, my favorite game of the show (and one that Zelda couldn't hope to compete with in my brain for overall hype). We got a two minute trailer, and that was it. No idea of the story. No idea of any villains involved. No release window. Not even a name. Just: "Spider-Man PS4". And sure, that's something to talk about for a few minutes. But after awhile, you've combed over every single frame of that 120 seconds. And don't bother asking the developers, as they (and I quote) "only have the trailer to show you". They're tight-lipped and aren't going to give you an ounce of information outside of that, which basically means there was no purpose in them (the devs) showing up to begin with.

But Zelda? There's five fucking hours of gameplay to comb through. That's not the whole game, but there's more material released in this one instance than most games get for their entire promo cycle. You can go back and re-watch it and find things that you missed your seventh or eighth time through. And they were so willing to give extra information outside of what you're seeing--there's a thread somewhere on GAF that's like a massive post of information.

If you're hyped for Zelda, you're NOT going to get tired of talking about that because there's so much TO talk about. Even a game like Watch_Dogs 2--a game that's got to be pretty close to ready since it launches in five freaking months--is only showing you one or two loops of gameplay and giving largely the same PR soundbytes no matter how many dozens of interviews they give.

So yeah. Combine that, plus Zelda's massive fanbase, the fact that Nintendo has the most loyal fans in the game, and that people love an underdog? Zelda was ALWAYS going to be the most talked about game.

you realize Zelda was at E3 2015, too, right? Now go back and look what they showed on their reveal..
 
Huh, I've only heard like 3 people mention it and many MANY people mention all sorts of PS, XB, and PC centric titles. Guess it's my circles?

Also, one of my acquaintances who is all about F2P PC games and handhelds told me they were excited about Zelda and Pokemon, and when I asked them about any of the other reveals their response was basically "Eh, I don't own any of those systems so while The Last Guardian could be cool I'm not going to bother looking at them."

I suggested it might be a bit closed-minded to just ignore all the games they might potentially like, especially as many of them were for PC and they don't own a Wii U. They told me they don't care lol...
 
I think Zelda is a big wakeup call to the rest of the industry. It's the Mario 64 of this generation.

~

With endless permutations of gameplay systems, these systems not only have to work on their own but also have to interact with each other which is why other developers would shy away from it. No other developer would even try to build this game unless they wanted to spend the next 30 years of their life building it.

~

it's awe inspiring.

~

the end result is nobody's experience is going to be the same. Finally, someone has topped Mario 64. Bravo Nintendo! Bravo!
I take it this post is satirical?
 
Disagree.

Every open world game these days markets itself by how many things there are to do. Our game has over 100 quests and 100 hours of gameplay! Bethesda games railroad you with quest after quest after quest and in the end, none of it really feels like it matters.

Breath of the Wild is the first open world game since Dead Rising 1 where when I watch it being played, I'm completely enthralled and in "what's that?" mode. Whereas other open world games are all about how many things there are to do, Zelda is now about all the things you can do in its world. Those two things sound similar, but there's a delicate line. Other open world games tell you how many things they have to offer. Take this quest, or this quest, or this one. But Zelda lets you make up your mind. You've taken up that quest because you just happened to find what's inside that shrine. Essentially, most open world game no longer stresses a sandbox. It's just a wall of content to satiate players and try to keep them hooked by giving us as much quantity as possible to engorge ourselves. But sometimes quantity doesn't mean shit. Open world fatigue is real.

But Zelda? In Zelda you can go to the final boss within seconds of starting the game.

In Zelda, you can manipulate the environment. Can you do that in other open world games?

In Zelda, the game appears to give you tools and do whatever.

I think modern open world games have tricked modern players into thinking stacking content in your face all the time is the sign of a sandbox. A sandbox, by its very definition, is a place where you can play where your imagination leads it to. Can you really say that about other open world games at this years show? Games like Horizon? Or Days Gone? They have "open worlds" but is their structure really that of a sandbox where the wheels come right off that push for playing experimentation? Fuck no. Absolutely not. It's just a large world where it's large for the sake of being large.

There's also the mystery of Zelda. Link wakes up, and we have no idea what's going on besides the princess telling us to go some place. There's a sense of mystery due to the sparse dialogue. It works in that Dark Souls way that western games just can't and won't do, where they give us dialogue every few seconds and don't bother creating a world where we're the ones asking questions.

TLDR: Zelda: Breath of the Wild is the most refreshing looking open world game since Grand Theft Auto San Andreas. A complete retooling on peoples expectations of the genre that have become so homogenized and so boring that people equate lists upon lists of quests they know they're never gonna anyways as an "open world" or "sandbox". Zelda fucking gets it. The game where you really can go anywhere, do anything, and in the order you want it.

My hypothesis is that it is opinions like this that made Zelda the most talked about. Not because they're right, but because they are both deeply held and contentious. There's so much to argue about here.

Let's start with "railroad you with quests." Uh, you don't have to take them. You can just wander. That's the opposite of railroading. Now it's the Zelda zealot's turn to move the goalposts. And so it goes.

They can move into subjective taste territory with claims like it is the first game in a long time that leaves them "completely enthralled", which invites people voicing opinions about other games that enthralled them. Again to no purpose.

The same can be done with "environmental manipulation" or "silent protagonist." The Zelda zealot makes a ridiculously bold claim that invites argument because there are so many examples that contradict them. And then we head down the rabbit hole of No True Scotsman'ing to their precise definition that would only ever apply to Zelda.

I am not saying it is a bad game. It might be the best thing since sliced bread. But I definitely think that Zelda fans are more prone to inflammatory rhetoric.
 
Most popular brand at E3 is talked about the most?! YOU DON'T SAY!

Can't believe people are actually salty over this.
Really? Haven't been on the Internet or GAF very long? People seem to get salty about everything, whether it's "Sony wins E3" from some news site, or Zelda getting praised (as it should) simply because it doesn't look as good as it will on NX.
 
Wow, let's wait until the game releases before you start going all hyperbolic about it. Nintendo fans really do like to jump in with both feet.

It will be hyperbolic if there was just the trailer but that's not the case.
There is 5 hours of solid streaming to back up what that person said and Nintendo didn't showed all the features.

So yeah, maybe after you watched those 5 hours of gameplay, you can come back here and have more solid arguments too, no ?

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1233823
 
My hypothesis is that it is opinions like this that made Zelda the most talked about. Not because they're right, but because they are both deeply held and contentious. There's so much to argue about here.

Let's start with "railroad you with quests." Uh, you don't have to take them. You can just wander. That's the opposite of railroading. Now it's the Zelda zealot's turn to move the goalposts. And so it goes.

They can move into subjective taste territory with claims like it is the first game in a long time that leaves them "completely enthralled", which invites people voicing opinions about other games that enthralled them. Again to no purpose.

The same can be done with "environmental manipulation" or "silent protagonist." The Zelda zealot makes a ridiculously bold claim that invites argument because there are so many examples that contradict them. And then we head down the rabbit hole of No True Scotsman'ing to their precise definition that would only ever apply to Zelda.

I am not saying it is a bad game. It might be the best thing since sliced bread. But I definitely think that Zelda fans are more prone to inflammatory rhetoric.

the Zelda zealot, wow
 
MCujSVO.png

Simply amazing. Thank you!
 
My hypothesis is that it is opinions like this that made Zelda the most talked about. Not because they're right, but because they are both deeply held and contentious. There's so much to argue about here.

Let's start with "railroad you with quests." Uh, you don't have to take them. You can just wander. That's the opposite of railroading. Now it's the Zelda zealot's turn to move the goalposts. And so it goes.

They can move into subjectove taste territory with claims like it is the first game in a long tine that leaves them "completely enthralled", which invites people voicing opinions about other games that enthralled them. Again to no purpose.

The same can be done qith "environmental manipulation" or "silent protagonist." The Zelda zealot makes a ridiculously bold claim that invites argument because there are so many examples that contradict them. And then we head down the rabbit hole of No True Scotsman'ing to their precise definition that would only ever apply to Zelda.

I am not saying it is a bad game. It might be the best thing since sliced bread. But I definitely think that Zelda fans are more prone to inflammatory rhetoric that invites argument.

Disagree. Sure, you can decide not to take quests in other open world games but why wouldn't you? You want to level up. You want better gear. Also, even if you don't take them, it's still people suggesting that you do certain things. From the gameplay I've seen of Zelda, no one is suggesting shit beyond Zelda's waypoint mark. You can really go and explore at your own speed. I don't get that out of any modern open world games with the exception of maybe New Vegas.

So I'm a Zelda zealot because I've talked about how you can burn grass, use wind to burn grass, and use the environment to your advantage? Cross places you couldn't ordinarily cross by chopping down a tree? I'm not seeing it. I haven't seen a single open world game like that. They're pretty static. Zelda: Breath of the Wild looks like the anti-thesis of static.

While you're coming up with insulting ideas that only "Zelda zealots" would think any of this, I think you're going out of your way to refuse to give any credit to Nintendo and what they've shown this week.

Show me modern open world games where you can do nearly any of this? The only thing I'm thinking of is New Vegas, where you can, if you're willing, head north into Vegas strip and get Benny. And that's the one core exception. Even then, New Vegas doesn't have a world as large or as non-static as BotW either.
 
My hypothesis is that it is opinions like this that made Zelda the most talked about. Not because they're right, but because they are both deeply held and contentious. There's so much to argue about here.

Let's start with "railroad you with quests." Uh, you don't have to take them. You can just wander. That's the opposite of railroading. Now it's the Zelda zealot's turn to move the goalposts. And so it goes.

They can move into subjective taste territory with claims like it is the first game in a long time that leaves them "completely enthralled", which invites people voicing opinions about other games that enthralled them. Again to no purpose.

The same can be done with "environmental manipulation" or "silent protagonist." The Zelda zealot makes a ridiculously bold claim that invites argument because there are so many examples that contradict them. And then we head down the rabbit hole of No True Scotsman'ing to their precise definition that would only ever apply to Zelda.

I am not saying it is a bad game. It might be the best thing since sliced bread. But I definitely think that Zelda fans are more prone to inflammatory rhetoric.
Well some of the things i read in the last day or two definitely rivaled Dark Souls fanbase level of absurdity.
But i'll chalk it up to E3 hype.
 
Wow, Zelda destroys the competition. Guess it makes sense, since it does indeed look like a standout game.
 
I wanted to post but instead I realized that it was veering into being off-topic in this particular thread. I'm not surprised that it is the most talked about. It's definitely the least predictable game announced. A lot of the other games shown were just noise to me.
 
Of course, this isn't just a Zelda thing; it's true of dozens of the most popular franchises around IMO.

Agreed. It's a useless thing to say. What would the reaction to God of War have been had it been a new IP, i.e. no Kratos? What would the reaction to Days Gone have been had it been revealed as The Last of Us 2? How about Resident Evil 7? Did people really give much of a damn before that logo showed up?
 
Disagree. Sure, you can decide not to take quests in other open world games but why wouldn't you? You want to level up. You want better gear. Also, even if you don't take them, it's still people suggesting that you do certain things. From the gameplay I've seen of Zelda, no one is suggesting shit beyond Zelda's waypoint mark. You can really go and explore at your own speed. I don't get that out of any modern open world games with the exception of maybe New Vegas.

So I'm a Zelda zealot because I've talked about how you can burn grass, use wind to burn grass, and use the environment to your advantage? Cross places you couldn't ordinarily cross by chopping down a tree? I'm not seeing it. I haven't seen a single open world game like that. They're pretty static. Zelda: Breath of the Wild looks like the anti-thesis of static.

While you're coming up with insulting ideas that only "Zelda zealots" would think any of this, I think you're going out of your way to refuse to give any credit to Nintendo and what they've shown this week.

Show me modern open world games where you can do nearly any of this? The only thing I'm thinking of is New Vegas, where you can, if you're willing, head north into Vegas strip and get Benny. And that's the one core exception. Even then, New Vegas doesn't have a world as large or as non-static as BotW either.

I was going to write something up to argue him, but you essentially covered it. To me this game looks like it fused Minecraft with a modern AAA epic, open world action-adventure. I haven't seen any game take this angle on it yet, and that is exciting and refreshing to me.
 
Well some of the things i read in the last day or two definitely rivaled Dark Souls fanbase level of absurdity.
But i'll chalk it up to E3 hype.
There is more than 5 hours of unique gameplay footage showing the hype is based on fact.

This game is the real deal. It's OK to be excited by a good game!
 
Most popular brand at E3 is talked about the most?! YOU DON'T SAY!

Can't believe people are actually salty over this.

Indeed. It's different to people expressing say, disappointment. If someone desperately believed this game was going to be Majora's Mask 2 then seeing them comment about how they don't like the BoTW reveal would be normal.

Instead we have people itching to post how not interested in it they are. Multiple times per thread, even.

To me if you're not interested in something then repeating that opinion over and over pretty much contradicts your alleged disinterest and indicates instead a general dislike. Which in itself is ok, but there is no need to dwell, is there?

I myself have no love for halo after part three, for example. I don't go into halo 6 speculation threads and say "NOPE NOT INTERESTED THIS IS A 2008 GAME" over and over until someone else takes up the cause like it were a tag team wrestling match of disinterested commentators.
 
It's funny I would have expected this year to be like last year or the year before being that Nintendo stuffs only interesting to people who actually like their stuffs to begin with.
I guess the conventional wisdom that Skyrim being that popular despite being without multiplayer or the usual trope you see in AAA space was a wake up call to just do a Zelda game the public asked for the last 10 years or so.
It worked for them with spectacular results.
It's great when Nintendo just follows what the public wants, the games are better and they're more exciting too.
 
It'll be an NX launch title alongside the Wii U release, so it's pretty much guaranteed to be a big hit.

Well....Unless the NX bombs. And I mean, REALLY bombs, like a Virtual Boy type of bomb.


LOL Why you have to drag Virtual Boy into this :P but yeah all sarcasm of mine aside I think it'll do good enough to hopefully let them feel free to keep changing up the Zelda formula a little more.

The big question now is ... do I buy an NX for this or stay with my WiiU Version...

Hopefully I can afford to buy the NX by the time it releases but my wallet is already dead LOL
 
This makes me wonder, if Microsoft only showed Halo 6 would it have the same effect?

If Sony only showed Uncharted 5 would it have the same effect?

I remember Bethesda really fleshing out Fallout 4 more than anything else and it dominated social media
 
There is more than 5 hours of unique gameplay footage showing the hype is based on fact.

This game is the real deal. It's OK to be excited by a good game!

Game of the Gen, Zelda saving gaming, and other bullshit like this is hyperbole.
Hyperbole is fine, especially in E3 time, when it's especially fun to be excited, but it's still hyperbole.
Not dissimilar from the Souls fans wanting every game (including Zelda, ironically) to "be like Dark Souls".

It looks like a fun game though, i agree on that.
 
Game of the Gen, Zelda saving gaming, and other bullshit like this is hyperbole.
Hyperbole is fine, especially in E3 time, when it's especially fun to be excited, but it's still hyperbole.
Not dissimilar from the Souls fans wanting every game (including Zelda, ironically) to "be like Dark Souls".

Every thing you just listed right now isn't unique. It happens to almost every genre. People said Bravely Default was supposed to save jrpgs, for instance. "________ SAVE USSSSSS" is an actual meme. Somehow you just weren't in on the bloody joke like the rest of us. Right now there's an actual joke with the FGC that Tekken 7 is going to save fighting games. Whether people believe it or not, it's almost always taken as a joke. But you're mad. Why you mad?

This happens when there's hype for things. Deal with it.

This has nothing to do with Dark Souls. It's just you having a negative reaction and somehow equating Zelda fanbase to Dark Souls fanbase, as if we've got Git Gud t-shirts or something when, if you've been following nerd hobbies for a while, you should already be quite used to "_______ saved" type hyperbole. Pro-tip: it's usually done tongue in cheek and almost always taken as a joke.

Deal with it, mate. Cut your teeth and move on.

I was going to write something up to argue him, but you essentially covered it. To me this game looks like it fused Minecraft with a modern AAA epic, open world action-adventure. I haven't seen any game take this angle on it yet, and that is exciting and refreshing to me.

Right? But somehow this game is just amazing looking to "Zelda zealots".

lol The haters to this game look comical so far. It's like you're trying to find fault with it. "Oh you can use wind to burn shit? Phht. That's not impressive. Take a look at my 400 hour Skyrim file."
 
Disagree. Sure, you can decide not to take quests in other open world games but why wouldn't you? You want to level up. You want better gear. Also, even if you don't take them, it's still people suggesting that you do certain things. From the gameplay I've seen of Zelda, no one is suggesting shit beyond Zelda's waypoint mark. You can really go and explore at your own speed. I don't get that out of any modern open world games with the exception of maybe New Vegas.

So I'm a Zelda zealot because I've talked about how you can burn grass, use wind to burn grass, and use the environment to your advantage? Cross places you couldn't ordinarily cross by chopping down a tree? I'm not seeing it. I haven't seen a single open world game like that. They're pretty static. Zelda: Breath of the Wild looks like the anti-thesis of static.

While you're coming up with insulting ideas that only "Zelda zealots" would think any of this, I think you're going out of your way to refuse to give any credit to Nintendo and what they've shown this week.

Show me modern open world games where you can do nearly any of this? The only thing I'm thinking of is New Vegas, where you can, if you're willing, head north into Vegas strip and get Benny. And that's the one core exception. Even then, New Vegas doesn't have a world as large or as non-static as BotW either.

Hey. Listen.

Just because you can choose to have people bug you doesn't mean that you have to do that in a lot of open world games. So the goalposts have moved from railroad to suggesting. Fine. Play GTAV online. Aside from the intro, you don't have to do crap. You can just explore. Same deal with Morrowind. You can just go and level up without taking quests. Escape Velocity. You never have to take a quest past the intro. Freelancer in multiplayer.

Burning grass. Far Cry 2-4. Environmental deformation. Red Faction.

The tree chopping and staying there? Depending on how it is done, it could be something really unique or it could be opening shortcuts a la Bloodborne.

Again, I don't think the game is a bad game (how could I since it isn't released) and I'll add to it that I don't think Zelda fans are crazy or bad or stupid or whatever. I do think that the claims of Zelda's innovation after Ocarina are hyperbole and I do think that some fans are really prone to blind spots.

Heck, some guy claimed the other day that no other open world games emphasized fun exploration and traversal like Zelda will (oh hello, Infamous, Prototype, Saint's Row, Just Cause, etc.).

I don't know if that's what you meant by "any of this" and I hope that I am proved wrong and the new Zelda reinvigorates Nintendo (I was with them from NES to Wii), but the only thing that blows my mind about the new Zelda so far is the certainty of some that it is exceptional.
 
That is absolutely right, that is what this game is, and that is why I am so disappointed. I presume that is also why the diehard fans are so incapable of being critical of what they are seeing, because they truly don't want to believe that it's possible this Zelda is not quite as amazing as they know it needs to be.

I am sure it will play well and such, but nothing shown pushes any boundary, not in art direction, not in story telling, not in graphics, not in gameplay, absolutely not in open world design (big =/= better)... And therefore I see no reason to expect this to seriously turn around Nintendo's fortunes in the mainstream gaming market. 14 year old and 30 year olds who have left the fold are probably not going to be won over by this, when it has already been surpassed on most levels by competing games released years ago. If they wanted open world, they had Witcher. If they wanted tight, fantasy-themed combat, they had Souls.

Yeah this game has that Zelda spirit but that wasn't enough for Skyward Sword, why would it be enough for this?

So when you say "not enough" for Skyward Sword... are you refering to the great Metascore, or the millions of copies sold? Lol
 
I'm happy that this Zelda could potentially be a cross-over hit. Skyward Sword didn't seem to garner much interest outside of the Zelda fanbase.

I'm surprised Horizon is so much lower though, seeing that it seems to be in the same vein as the new Zelda.
 
Hey. Listen.

Just because you can choose to have people bug you doesn't mean that you have to do that in a lot of open world games. So the goalposts have moved from railroad to suggesting. Fine. Play GTAV online. Aside from the intro, you don't have to do crap. You can just explore. Same deal with Morrowind. You can just go and level up without taking quests. Escape Velocity. You never have to take a quest past the intro. Freelancer in multiplayer.

Burning grass. Far Cry 2-4. Environmental deformation. Red Faction.

The tree chopping and staying there? Depending on how it is done, it could be something really unique or it could be opening shortcuts a la Bloodborne.

Again, I don't think the game is a bad game (how could I since it isn't released) and I'll add to it that I don't think Zelda fans are crazy or bad or stupid or whatever. I do think that the claims of Zelda's innovation after Ocarina are hyperbole and I do think that some fans are really prone to blind spots.

Heck, some guy claimed the other day that no other open world games emphasized fun exploration and traversal like Zelda will (oh hello, Infamous, Prototype, Saint's Row, Just Cause, etc.).

I don't know if that's what you meant by "any of this" and I hope that I am proved wrong and the new Zelda reinvigorates Nintendo (I was with them from NES to Wii), but the only thing that blows my mind about the new Zelda so far is the certainty of some that it is exceptional.

The goalposts never moved.

I have played nearly 150 hours of GTAV. One of my favorite things to do is to load up a game and head north into the country side. But there's really rarely anything to actually do there. I've already done all the missions, so I generally just get in a motorcycle or a sports car and do stunts near Trevor's house or get a jet and see if I can land on Mt Chiliad's peak. But that's all there really is to do. The world is extremely static. For me, in GTAV, there really is no "what's that? I want to go there." It's an experience that feels completely held by the hand. Even if I do get to Mt Chiliad, what am I gonna do besides jump off the peak? It's not like I'm going to find neat new gear. You don't even have gear in GTAV for the most part, and most weapon unlocks are at Ammunation so who gives a shit? What I've seen from Zelda looks more my style. I really want to explore those locations and see what's there. I want to take on the shrines. I want play around with its world. I want to cut down EVERY TREE just to see what happens.

Sure, I can play GTA Online, but what am I going to do besides get chased by twelve year olds calling me a faggot or a bitch?

Besides RPGs and fighting games, open world games are the genre I've put the most hours into and the modern open world game bores me to absolute tears.

I haven't played Farcry 2-4. Actually, I have 2 and I didn't like what I played of it. I thought it was crap. I have Blood Dragon and I didn't like that either. I looked up a video of Farcry 4's fire mechanics, and while it's impressive, it doesn't look like the playful nature of what you can do in Zelda. It mostly looks like it's used as a combat mechanic, while in Zelda it looks more varied in what you can do with it. Can I take a wooden club, light that on the fire I started and use that and do things with it? Farcry 4 also doesn't have wind either. I saw a Zelda video of a windy plain, and the player just knocked over a fire pit and an entire blaze of fire showed up almost like it was nothing once the wind got involved. From what I've seen of Farycry's fire, it's mostly created by weapons you have (i.e. flamethrowers). It's not a part of the world, it's just another toy to kill people with. You mention Red Faction: Guerilla but that's just one game.

I would definitely say that saying Zelda stopped being innovative after Ocarina is being a bit unfair because you're discounting Majora's Mask, which is one of the most unique games ever made. I'm not a big fan of Phantom Hourglass but its touch controls at the time were really influential. Twilight Princess' wii controls were amazing at the time of release. Is Zelda as innovative as it used to be? No, but honestly, what games are are purely innovative anymore? Are you telling me that GTAV is innovative?

Either way, Zelda looks like a great game and I think it offers something different from other open world games aren't simply offering. I say this as someone who used to be a big open world game fan, and now reacts to the genre with tepid boredom. I didn't even buy Skyward Sword and I haven't bought a Zelda since Twilight Princess (literally ten years). Even then, Zelda: Breath of the Wild is the first open world game in years that actually has caught my attention by its sandbox gameplay. Why are you mad some people feel that way? Or am I Zelda zealot too despite not having purchased a game in the series in ten years?

Okay, let's take your premise seriously. Show me gameplay from the games you listed that are as emergent as this? Prove to me your argument has some teeth.

spxxOvV.gif


giphy.gif


Just some samples.
 
I'm happy that this Zelda could potentially be a cross-over hit. Skyward Sword didn't seem to garner much interest outside of the Zelda fanbase.

I'm surprised Horizon is so much lower though, seeing that it seems to be in the same vein as the new Zelda.

I get a lot of shit for saying it sometimes but Skyward Sword was sent out to die. Wii was already dead and they really couldn't do another delay a year for a Wii U version of it. So all they could rely on were people who still had their Wii actually available.
 
Top Bottom