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[elcapitan]

Great thing about these games is that it's not a palette swap. Their skin color also ties into their background and motivations and affects the game, particularly for Mafia. In addition to representation, I think exposing the wider audience to these perspectives is important, if a bit risky as well.

 

[AGITΩ]

I don't know if it's much consolidation, but that we've made it to this point, that means there's nothing holding devs back from using other races. This is why diversity is so important in gaming -- it opens the door for more than just black people. If a black lead can finally have their chance, so can an Asian in a non-fighting game, a Native American, an Indian and a Latino. Keep your head up and stay vocal about your need for representation. That's what makes these things happen.

Asians are already prominent in Gaming in the west thanks to the Japanese Gaming Industry. So its more so that you would see White, Asian and Black characters in games. So it makes Latinos even more of a rarity. Especially when you can consider that you've even got Black people in Final Fantasy.

 

[Dyson Industries]

Does having minority leads and women leads get minorities and women into positions making these games though? I'm having trouble believing there would be more women or minorities in those jobs if Cloud, Ryu, or Link looked like them when they were growing up. It all feels like the current makeup of developers just finding a way to Pat themselves on the back.

I used to think that way as well. You should probably read this:

One of the things that drives me crazy in regards to using the "writing for another gender/ethnicity is hard!!" excuse is that, if your game is set in America, you don't have to stretch too far to write a character of a different ethnicity.

There seems to be this otherness that some people assume about minorities that makes them think it's going to be extremely difficult to write for a minority. American culture is American culture, regardless of your ethnicity. There are whites and asians that listen to Hip Hop, for example, and blacks and latinos who listen to rock and country. There are whites that grew up in ghettos that talk in slang, and there are blacks that grew up in middle class suburbs and talk in that dialect.

Living in a diverse city like Los Angeles for the past 18 years, I've met a whole lot of people from a whole lot of backgrounds. Some people are definitely migrants from other countries, but a whole damn lot of them are born and bred here in America, and have grown up in the same American culture that white people have. If you are writing a story set in America, I don't understand the whole bewilderment about how to "write for a black person," or "write for an asian or middle eastern person." When I sit down at my computer to write a character, and that character happens to be white, I don't whip out my episodes of Seinfeld or Friends to try and "get their vast and unique culture" down. I just write a character. Unless my minority characters are actually from another country, I don't beat myself over the head with nailing their dialect. From my experiences, Americans act like Americans, regardless of ethnicity. You don't have to untangle the mysteries of the black mind to write a black character. Just write the fucking character.

As I said a zillion times, I used to default to white characters 99.9% of the time when I'd sit down to draw and create new comics. I'm a black dude, but because the vast majority of the entertainment I consumed starred white males, that's who I'd create because, for millions of kids growing up in America, the white male is the defacto standard. When someone says "Doctor," "Lawyer," "Police Officer," "Astronaut," "Superhero," I guarantee that for millions of people, a white male pops into their head. If I say, "Thug," "Gangster," "Criminal," the vast majority of people will picture either a black or latino male. Those are the types of almost reflexive associations we make with words, so often, when a creator sits down to create, and he/she says, "I'm going to write about a police officer who gets mixed up in organized crime," they're going to picture a white male.

Once I realized how much I defaulted to the white male protagonist, it broadened my thinking, and I started asking myself, "Why does this character HAVE to be white?" The answer is almost always, "Well, they don't have to be," then the question moves on to, "What ethnicity should they be then?" and it opens up the door to create a character that is different and unique visually, as well as from whatever background I'm going to give them (Happy, Tragic, etc). I still create plenty of white characters in my stories and comics, but now they aren't the only characters I create.

Funny anecdote. I was riding on the bus one day, and I'm sitting in my seat, and these two tall, well built young black guys, wearing sports jersey's and shorts, come walking to the back of the bus. They're laughing and joking about something, and I'm listening to my music. Then, I catch snatches of their conversation, and they're talking about fucking Harry Potter, making jokes about Knight Bus and shit. It would have been so easy to characterize them as the stereotypical black youth, who's only interests lie in hip hop and basketball.

I've been a nerd my entire life. I've loved everything from Star Wars, to Doctor Who, to Dungeons and Dragons and comic books since I was kid. Been a gamer since '85, and haven't stopped yet. Many of my family and friends are exactly the same way. The shit we nerd out about and talk about when we hang out, or over Facebook, is no different than what people associate with white male nerds. Many of the women in my life (including my wife), are huge into video games and comic books as well. If someone were to describe my interests, you'd almost automatically assume I was a white boy, or maybe a Japanese Otaku. So why is it so hard for a white writer to write a minority character? Protip: It's not. That's not a good excuse. Whether you set your book in the suburbs or the ghetto, you'll probably have to do research anyway. That research will probably lead you to the conclusion that people in America don't really behave that differently from one another. Not enough to make it easier to just write them out of the story because you're too close minded to consider that your perspective and their perspective aren't that off from one another.

So no, I don't accept that as a reason to exclude creating minority characters as anything more than background dressing.

1000000 White Male Leads: "Who cares it's just pixels on a screen."

Lead is literally not human: "It's fantasy, you don't need to relate."

Lead is not white: "FORCED DIVERSITY WHAT THE FUCK"

Exactly.

 

[EloquentM]

Asians are already prominent in Gaming in the west thanks to the Japanese Gaming Industry. So its more so that you would see White, Asian and Black characters in games. So it makes Latinos even more of a rarity. Especially when you can consider that you've even got Black people in Final Fantasy.

but the truth of the matter is that white protags still dominate the industry even with sprinkles of Asian and drops of black protags in there. Getting away from white protags as the status quo entirely opens the doors for other minorities. Yes, many people default to black when looking at the diversity angle, but that's not something other communities should be down on because the fact of the matter is black people are still a very low percentage of the overall number. The more minorities the better no matter if they're black, Asian, Latino etc.

also this response reminded me of a game I liked with a Latino protagonist. that game with shinji mikami that I thought was awesome. Shadows of the dammed I think it was called.

 

[ishibear]

Asians are already prominent in Gaming in the west thanks to the Japanese Gaming Industry. So its more so that you would see White, Asian and Black characters in games. So it makes Latinos even more of a rarity. Especially when you can consider that you've even got Black people in Final Fantasy.

Then let's keep advocating for it to happen! Devs need to comprehend that there's more races out there than Black and Asian. To get there, we gotta stay vocal.

 

[illmatic22]

Real talk, the fact these games have black leads are the main reason I'm interested in them.

Meanwhile in the Latino community....
...

I mean yeah, I'm all about diversity, but in Gaming and Movie industry as a whole, its always either about White or Black when it comes to race. It's like other races don't exist. But that's always been my feelings about it, especially as a Latino.

I'd like to see better representation for us considering There's a ton of us in the States.

 

[Mass One]

Harlem Hellfighters are cool as fuck.



You are saying he is mixed? Gee, I wonder if that was an issue on the 60's.

You may have misunderstood. I'm just talking purely stat wise for this thread topic. I wasn't speaking how he'll be perceived in game or how much culture he adsorbed or his impossible to measure blackness. Just the numbers.

 

[Terrorblot]

I don't know if it's much consolidation, but that we've made it to this point, that means there's nothing holding devs back from using other races. This is why diversity is so important in gaming -- it opens the door for more than just black people. If a black lead can finally have their chance, so can an Asian in a non-fighting game, a Native American, an Indian and a Latino. Keep your head up and stay vocal about your need for representation. That's what makes these things happen.

This. It's unacceptable that we've grown complacent and that white male is openly accepted as "default". I won't criticize a game for having a white male lead but when the trend shows that one race, gender, or sexuality is OVERWHELMINGLY over-represented something is WRONG.

 

[SmoothRunningGun]

Can I call this out for being insensitive because I'm a white male?

Spoiler

jk

No you have every other game ever lol.

 

[Nirolak]

Does having minority leads and women leads get minorities and women into positions making these games though? I'm having trouble believing there would be more women or minorities in those jobs if Cloud, Ryu, or Link looked like them when they were growing up. It all feels like the current makeup of developers just finding a way to Pat themselves on the back.

Well, the person who brought back and helmed Mirror's Edge 2 was a woman despite the first game. I don't know if she ever said that was part of her decision to gather people up to design and pitch a sequel, but it's a plausible case.

Battlefront (the new DICE one) and Visceral's new Star Wars games are also helmed by women, suggesting LucasFilm's efforts over the years to add more and more prominent women to Star Wars (and the staff making Star Wars) may have helped grow interest from women in the series as well.

I don't have any good examples of minority game leads (relative to their country) off the top of my head unfortunately, but maybe someone else can help there.

 

[CrayToes]

Good shit. This makes me very happy along with the amount of female leads on display, too.

 

[SalvaPot]

hey remember the time you entered the "women's teams being added to fifa" thread and asked about boob physics?

How does that didn't earn a tag?

 

[Allnamestakenlol]

Good news for representation. Hopefully they won't be too stereotyped.

 

[CrimsonSquall]

I really dislike when people suggest that developers should only switch out the main for a minority lead when it makes sense for the story. What would have been the difference if the first Watch Dogs dude was black, Joel in TLOU was indian or even Sora from KH was like native american or some shit? Look obviously it would make less sense for RDR main to be black (unless this is Django The Game) or Nathan Drake to be asian (Sir Francis Drake shit out the window) but a minority lead doesn't have to be billed as a stereotype for it to work.

I know plenty of black people myself included that aren't thugs, literally all my middle eastern friends are not terrorists and I plenty of Asians that went to a worse school then me. Fuck a stereotype, make a banging game. All those games in OP got me hype as hell sorry

 

[spannicus]

Niiiiiiiiiice.

 

[Vince DiCola]

It's great to see and a step in the right direction. Hopefully in my lifetime it becomes unremarkable and natural to have lead characters of any race

 

[CharminUltra]

Bravo.

 

[ocean]

I do not understand this
Do the gender and color really make a difference?
For me it more about a well written character who we can connect with. Don't care about the gender or race

Yeah I've always thought these diversity arguments are silly. Like being dark skinned and Latino = I can't relate/connect/immerse myself with a good novel or movie or game because the protagonist is white - wtf?

Whether a character is white or black or brown or male or female or straight or gay or smooth or awkward or whatever is totally besides the point. Is he interesting, is he well-written, does he participate in a well told story, a story worth telling? Is the narrative pacing good? These things matter. Having 3/4 or 4/4 or 0/4 black/white leads isn't good. It isn't bad. It's nothing. Whether they're good characters, that's the bar.

Imagine TLoU had had a character creator. Would the story have been any worse with black Joel? Any better? I don't see how or why it should have.

But yeah its NOT IMMERSIVE unless he's got a texture map which resembles my face!!!

 

[Chie Satonaka]

Fantastic.

All three highly visible games, too. It's nice to see.

 

[SalvaPot]

You may have misunderstood. I'm just talking purely stat wise for this thread topic. I wasn't speaking how he'll be perceived in game or how much culture he adsorbed or his impossible to measure blackness. Just the numbers.

I see. Even then I still think he easily counts.

 

[redfox088]

I'm one of those people. Sorry.

Spoiler

Why do the guys keep their sneakers and shoes on when they're fucking? It makes no sense! It breaks my immersion.

It's for footing and traction I guess.....I'm black and I never got this as well...but I can't watch white porn so idk.

 

[Asriel]

Now we need some epic lead in a Hindu Mythology (google this, it's very exciting) game, a Shaka Zulu game, a game from the eyes of a native that experiences the first colonialists in South America, a game in ancient Sumer where you lead a revolution against Babylonian oppressors.

The beauty of diversity for me lies in the myriads of rich stories that you could tell from so many perspectives.

That sounds pretty awesome!!

 

[Mortemis]

This is really, really nice to see. The industry is moving toward a better place, dragging along all the naysayers of having more diversity even if they're unwilling.

I hope they keep moving in a netter direction, then one day a white male protagonist isn't considered default and we don't have to have arguments saying its "diversity for diversity sake!" every time we have a minority character.

 

[PowderedToast]

there is still a problem with colourism and gender which will not go away for a long time, but at least we're getting somewhere.

unless you believe things will never truly change until we dismantle the entire white heteronormative patriarchy.

 

[Galactic Barret]

I say: Thank you, and please continue. This is very important to many people, myself included.

 

[jon bones]

Tremendous.

Now we need some epic lead in a Hindu Mythology (google this, it's very exciting) game, a Shaka Zulu game, a game from the eyes of a native that experiences the first colonialists in South America, a game in ancient Sumer where you lead a revolution against Babylonian oppressors.

The beauty of diversity for me lies in the myriads of rich stories that you could tell from so many perspectives.

what I would do for a Ramayana game....

 

[God Dayumm]

Meanwhile in the Latino community....
...

I mean yeah, I'm all about diversity, but in Gaming and Movie industry as a whole, its always either about White or Black when it comes to race. It's like other races don't exist. But that's always been my feelings about it, especially as a Latino.

We can make our own games to be honest. I find most Latino representation introduced by non-hispanic people a little embarrassing. I'd prefer a more genuine approach than be shoehorned for the sake of diversity.

 

[Jakartalado]

That's good.

Hope to see also more women in the coming years.

Aloy is my favorite character this e3. (Nintendo missed the opportunity with Linkle)

 

[Chaos17]

All males...

Spoiler

/j

Exactly my though

Spoiler

/halfjoke

On more serious note, I always welcome diversity.

 

[Sword Of Doom]

Definitely a step on the right direction. Good to see. As a white male, I'm so tired of playing white males In games. Recently, if there is an option to play a female character that's what I choose. It's so refreshing.

 

[Permanently A]

Finally, racism is over.

 

[Danis Saur]

I like it a lot, thanks for doing this publishers.

Here's to more diversity in games!

 

[Ivan 3414]

Altair was but Desmond was the real focus point of the series until ezio came into the picture. Ezio is white though so that's probably why they weren't afraid to give him the reigns.

It's true that Altair is Arab, but I'm pretty sure Altair just registered for most as some mystical white dude thanks to his fair skin and quite out-of-place white American accent in AC1. I doubt Ezio given the reigns had anything to do with him being whiter than Altair.

 

[PSqueak]

In before "I Can't Relate", "Shoehorned In" and "I Can't Even Watch Black Porn".

Do i even want to know if this has been actually said in NeoGAF?

Spoiler

Yes, yes i do, sounds like something that would derail the thread into hilarity

 

[shingi70]

To add to the list of women Joule from Recore.

 

[shandy706]

..I think a hacker game like Watch Dogs is pretty perfect for minority leads. ..

For some reason this struck me as a strange thought.

Why....or how does the race or skin color of someone relate to the type of game?

Why is a hacker a good role for a minority vs any other role...to infinity?

 

[Lunar15]

Refreshing. I really like the look of WD2's protag. Cool character design.

We can talk about racism all we want (with incredibly good reason), but for variety's sake, I'm also just glad to see stuff that's different than the norm.

 

[~Devil Trigger~]

that Watchdog dialogue though

 

[AndrewDean84xX]

Very cool. It's never really bothered me, as a hispanic.

 

[JawzPause]

Quite a few female leads too, seems like publishers are starting to branch out

 

[Onemic]

This is good.

The game industry is finally evolving. Hopefully as time goes on we can get even more diverse with various minority/female leading characters and lessen the pushback that minorities and women get when working within the industry.

 

[crimilde]

I just remembered, not sure how many on Gaf care though, but FIFA 17's singleplayer campaign is centered around a black football (soccer) player, Alex Hunter:

If mentioned already, sorry.

 

[PSqueak]

For some reason this struck me as a strange thought.

Why....or how does the race or skin color of someone relate to the type of game?

Why is a hacker a good role for a minority vs any other role...to infinity?

Think hollywood logic, an "action hero" has a very defined archetype, hence the epidemic of the dreaded "short brown haired, middle aged white guy" protagonist, but hackers in movies/media can be whoever you want, whatever ethnicity or gender.

Again, Hollywood logic.

 

[HMD]

I'd kill for some Arab representation, I literally only bought SFV to play as Rashid even though I hate 2D fighters. But I'm happy to see some positive representation for African Americans.

 

[jmizzal]

Watch Dogs dude reminds me of someone but i can't quite remember who.

He reminds me of my character I created in GTAV online lol

I love it WD2 and Mafia 3 are day 1 games for me

 

[KillGore]

That's great. As a half-hispanic I wonder when we will get hispanic protagonists. Also, what about mixed races? White+black, black+hispanic, etc.

One step at a time I guess

Edit: I don't think we're going to see Arab protagonists anytime soon.

 

[TheRed]

yea i don't see any ones from the big AAA games coming out this year

but far cry 4 and sleeping dogs! so those games do exist and they'll come around again i think

Mirror's Edge deserves credit! Female too. Refreshing coming from other games.

 

[paradise_circus]

The indigenous looking boy from the last guardian is also finally releasing this year.

 

[El Topo]

In Mafia and Watch Dogs, to our current knowledge, you only play as Lincoln and Marcus (though maybe that's different for Watch Dog's multiplayer). In Battlefield 1, you play other characters as well, like a Bedouin woman, but the Harlem Hellfighter is on the box art.

For Dishonored 2, Emily is the marketing lead, and the plotline is also really obviously written for her with Corvo put in as a secondary choice for people who want to play as a guy or really like Corvo instead, so I feel pretty good about counting that one.

It's true that Overwatch has a ton of characters, though I'm giving them credit for making Tracer the only one on the box art and making her the face of the franchise.

Thanks for the answer. I mean, it's nice that this industry is seemingly changing for the better, or at least the games are. Having Corvo as a second choice is not a problem for me either, options hurt no one.

 

[lightskintwin]

Meanwhile in the Latino community....
...

I mean yeah, I'm all about diversity, but in Gaming and Movie industry as a whole, its always either about White or Black when it comes to race. It's like other races don't exist. But that's always been my feelings about it, especially as a Latino.

Guacamelee. That game is awesome.

Shadows of the Damned had Garcia Hotspur who was Mexican.