Mass shooting at Orlando gay nightclub [50 dead, 53 injured]
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They don't usually last long enough, but since it turned into a hostage situation , that gave him time to do it. The only other one I know of was Chris Dorner but that was a different situation entirely.
Keep in mind, most active shooter situations only last 6-10 minutes.
umop_3pisdn
Member
what a clod.
Why is this nonsense 26 minutes long?
"She only wipes one eye. Maybe that's a symbolic reference."
Dude....what?
And I don't know why he's criticizing the fact that there isn't play-by-play camera phone footage of the shooting. He's just say it was all staged, like they were directing a movie or something.
"Look at this girl. No one would EVER fall down like that if they were shot."
Uploader is a loon.
everyday math
Banned
He was under investigation twice. I believe he was no longer on investigation at the time of the shooing. Unless that's changed. The Goverment cannot stop a citzen from buying a gun even if they're on the watch list. Which he wasn't.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
Thanks for this!
This is great for those who have the stomach. I always find this very difficult and usually avoid memorial pages esp. when tragedies are raw. If the victims remain more abstract, it's easier. We only have this luxury when we don't know the people involved. Condolences to those who do.
Holy shit! I think I recognized one of the victims of the shooting. "Shane Tomlinson"
They're interviewing his parents and they talked about how he's a singer in bars/lounges/night clubs in Florida. There's a night club here in Florida called Blue Martini that I've been to a couple of times with some friends. Last time I went was last month (got pretty wasted and we randomly went to a strip club afterwards). And when they showed his picture, I thought, "Isn't that the singer from the night club?" And sure enough, it was. He's was part of a band called Frequency and they perform at Blue Martini.
Video of the band from a few years ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9E_gh1MQIR0
RIP. He was really cool. Me and my friend were dancing way in the back and he was giving us shout outs.
They're interviewing his parents and they talked about how he's a singer in bars/lounges/night clubs in Florida. There's a night club here in Florida called Blue Martini that I've been to a couple of times with some friends. Last time I went was last month (got pretty wasted and we randomly went to a strip club afterwards). And when they showed his picture, I thought, "Isn't that the singer from the night club?" And sure enough, it was. He's was part of a band called Frequency and they perform at Blue Martini.
Video of the band from a few years ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9E_gh1MQIR0
RIP. He was really cool. Me and my friend were dancing way in the back and he was giving us shout outs.
AlphaSnake
...and that, kids, was the first time I sucked a dick for crack
I unfriended someone as well on my FB for trying to make people think this was all an act. He was curious why there was no security footage released, and so forth. The guy works as an armed security guard at AT&T stores for a major company...and is stupid enough to not know when a case is federal, footage can't be released.
He said about the same things during Paris. He basically has no remorse and says people should be praying for those in bad neighborhoods instead, and tries to redirect the agenda.
He said about the same things during Paris. He basically has no remorse and says people should be praying for those in bad neighborhoods instead, and tries to redirect the agenda.
Astral Dog
Member
Aww 😢
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
On one hand I fully agree the media handles these events horribly, by chasing ratings and focusing on the villains more than the heroes, the perpetrators more than the victims. It's inexcusable and transparent.
On the other, not identifying or examining people who do terrible things feels as if that's giving power to the depraved, as if we are afraid of setting them off. Part of the problem is that these people are already by nature digging for information to justify their personal narratives. Look at how impossible it is to stop conspiracy theorists from filling up the internet with fabrications and starter kits for the paranoid and delusional. If the media downplays the information of a shooter too much, unbalanced people are just going to go digging, certain that yet another conspiracy is hiding the truth from them.
I think the real problem is that we need massive reform in the ethical policy of the media, and sensationalism needs to be replaced with intellectual and in-depth investigative journalism once more. Such as in this case, where Mateen's suspected self-loathing homophobia, and its connection to how politics and culture are helping create these people as if off an assembly line, is worth talking about.
On the other, not identifying or examining people who do terrible things feels as if that's giving power to the depraved, as if we are afraid of setting them off. Part of the problem is that these people are already by nature digging for information to justify their personal narratives. Look at how impossible it is to stop conspiracy theorists from filling up the internet with fabrications and starter kits for the paranoid and delusional. If the media downplays the information of a shooter too much, unbalanced people are just going to go digging, certain that yet another conspiracy is hiding the truth from them.
I think the real problem is that we need massive reform in the ethical policy of the media, and sensationalism needs to be replaced with intellectual and in-depth investigative journalism once more. Such as in this case, where Mateen's suspected self-loathing homophobia, and its connection to how politics and culture are helping create these people as if off an assembly line, is worth talking about.
Along with the guns this is actually sticking as a narrative, which is good to see.
Does nobody ask these people where these actors go afterwards? Nobody knows who these actors are? Do they get other gigs? So many questions about the ridiculousness of it.
If you are a thinking person then you will continue to reflect on whether you should hold this bigoted view. If they, Muslims from abroad, come to your land, then they have to obey your laws. They may also be gay themselves; which then allows your country to provide the opportunity to be a safehaven.
The other thing is that by choosing to be islamophobic with your charts, you do a disservice to LGBT rights by downplaying it in non-muslim countries and the different levels of progress of LGBT rights in many different countries, Russia, Poland etc.
Further, I have yet to find people who say LGBT rights are not a concern at all in Muslim majority countries; yes some are more progressive than others, but who for example is arguing that Saudi Arabia is totally cool with gay folk?
Even with all that, the problem with bigotry is that it is an injustice to presume that a person is automatically homophobic because of where they were born, the laws of their land, and the religion they follow.
“Do You See How Much I’m Suffering Here?”
Abuse against Transgender Women in US Immigration Detention
Unfortunately people are easily convinced by these conspiracy videos, especially if they are well made.(This video was lame tho) I also have a friend who brought into this crap.
The woman in the video did seem to be reading off something but i think that's just ABC news giving her additional info to say on air.
I didn't create those charts I simply posted and correlated them. They represent what are called facts. Some people are allergic to them it seems. Furthermore, you're being quite naive. No, muslim immigrants do not have to "obey the laws"; they can commit crimes just as anyone can. Secondly, the likelihood that someone who grew up in a country where homosexuality is a capital crime and their all-consuming religion says is a sin will be homophobic is obviously astronomically high. Heck, even being gay yourself might not save you; just ask some gay people who were raised in strict Christian households. Others have already posted data showing that disapproval of homosexuality is particularly high among muslims (and fundamentalist Christians) LIVING in countries where gays CAN MARRY instead of publicly having their heads lopped off!
In addition, I'm not downplaying the existence of homophobia elsewhere just by pointing out just how homophobic muslim countries are. The fact is that the countries with a death penalty for being gay are muslim. Would other societies, with their own issues, be hastened towards resolving them by importing many more people who would oppose human rights? You optimistically suggest that muslims who emigrate may adopt the more liberal attitudes of their host countries but they could equally try to impose their way of life on their host. You can't honestly suggest that this has never happened. We are here, in this thread, aren't we? And there were certainly threads for Charlie Hebdo and "Je Suis Bruxelles" and perhaps Theo Van Gogh. Extreme violence is not the norm but it makes the point that not all people "liberalize". So where is the *irrational* fear on my part? If I am Islamophobic for merely broaching the subject then your definition is flawed. Or you could be using a loaded term to try to silence me. But no, you wouldn't do that.
Anyway, on another note, I just saw and article about the surge in gun purchases after the attack which put a different spin on it.
http://kdvr.com/2016/06/14/gun-sales-surge-after-orlando-shooting/
You think I'm trying to silence you by engaging with you? Okay then. *Silencing mode activated!*
Chmpocalypse
Blizzard
It should be difficult for us - all of us.
Either we all live for each other, or we die... even if we continue existing.
Not by engaging but by applying inapplicable labels.
It's fascinating that you found one peripheral statement to be the most relevant.
But, no worries, I can appreciate silence.
Peace makes so much sense for us as a specie. Having almost no natural enemies, we are only our own.
Not sure if it's been posted elsewhere but the FBI released a partial transcript of the calls the killer made.
https://www.fbi.gov/tampa/press-rel...ive-update-regarding-pulse-nightclub-shooting
This is the only verbatim section:
https://www.fbi.gov/tampa/press-rel...ive-update-regarding-pulse-nightclub-shooting
This is the only verbatim section:
tfur
Member
Interesting. I thought he said he supported 4 different groups.
Astral Dog
Member
Yeah, weird
TheZink
Member
They changed the word "Allah" to God. He actually used "Allah" but they are trying to edit it to imply that he wasn't.
Thanks for sharing this. Took some time today to read each one.
Well if the translation is from Arabic, then "God" can be accepted since "Allah" is the Arabic word for God. Arabic Christains use "Allah" as well, but they are referring to Yahweh or Jehovah. I understand what your saying, though. If they purposely didn't want to use Allah because they thought it would offend Muslims...well I think that Muslims here in America are already offended that this guy murdered people in the name of their God.
Edit:
Wow. Ok, that's stupid.
Florida
State statute Title XXVII, Chapter 365
Access open. 911 records can be broadcast with identifying information removed.
Florida law requires removal of any identifying information, which the FBI has followed.
Apparently it's a conscious decicision. I saw this a few days ago:
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/week-transcript-us-attorney-general-loretta-lynch/story?id=39962609
Attorney General Loretta Lynch said:
Not sure if they would be revictimized but there it is...
tfur
Member
This has nothing to do with Florida law. That notion does not even make since if you actually read what is said there.
That's really strange. There were plenty of pledges in that transcript.
This sounds like bullshit to me.
The FBI investigates him twice. The FBI is directly contacted by the gun store, and they apparently don't have enough information. Now we are getting pruned and curated information.
The public may not need bloody images of people, but they should be given the words and details of what happened.
@tfur
I think there might have been a more heavily redacted version before I posted because I've been seeing stories saying that they have reversed the decision to remove pledges.
http://nypost.com/2016/06/20/fbi-doj-release-full-transcript-of-orlando-shooters-911-call/
But I have not been able to find anything different from what I already posted. So that might be the "full" transcript which would explain why there are some pledges of allegiance in it.
I think there might have been a more heavily redacted version before I posted because I've been seeing stories saying that they have reversed the decision to remove pledges.
http://nypost.com/2016/06/20/fbi-doj-release-full-transcript-of-orlando-shooters-911-call/
But I have not been able to find anything different from what I already posted. So that might be the "full" transcript which would explain why there are some pledges of allegiance in it.
Orlando is in Florida? Florida's law in general doesn't allow uncensored redistribution of calls.
Pretty sure it's never been reported that he pledged allegiance to four different groups in his 911 calls, but that he has mentioned to people that he supported different and conflicting groups in the past.
dapperbandit
Banned
I don't watch much TV but I got the impression the media was tiptoeing around the ISIS thing, feeling out other motivations instead, like the "he was a self-hating gay man" thing etc. I guess that's done.
GregLombardi
Member
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/orlando...s-omar-mateen-gay-lover-speaks-out-univision/
not sure if this was posted.
regardless, very complicated story that intertwines hate and sexuality and mental illness in ways that aren't easily defined
not sure if this was posted.
regardless, very complicated story that intertwines hate and sexuality and mental illness in ways that aren't easily defined
the father like his son comes from a school of mental illness that plagues and ravages the area of Afghanistan and Pakistan through racism, hate, religious fanaticism. The foundations have been laid many many decades ago.
The whole region is fucked because a of a strong movement by a few that use huge uneducated tribal demographics for their hate campaigns and politics.
Pro-Taliban fascists and racists calling foul and Satan against homosexuality while it runs deep in their tribal areas. There's the envy of not being able to live it fully while others can so these suppressed feelings fuel their hate even more, thus they project and kill.
The whole region is fucked because a of a strong movement by a few that use huge uneducated tribal demographics for their hate campaigns and politics.
Pro-Taliban fascists and racists calling foul and Satan against homosexuality while it runs deep in their tribal areas. There's the envy of not being able to live it fully while others can so these suppressed feelings fuel their hate even more, thus they project and kill.
There are definitely intersecting factors including the nature of religious belief. Where are the radical Falun Gong practitioners bombing citizens and preaching death to homosexuals? I've never heard of it. If you decide to delve into the fundamental basis of that spiritual system what do you find? Good luck using meditation to justify violence against "other". Good luck using a knife to drink soup.
People can only use something "as a tool" when it is, by it's fundamental nature, amenable to such use. So it's worth asking why Islam and Christianity (esp. in the past when it had more political power) have been so useful as tools in support of racism, imperialism, and persecution of religious and sexual minorities.
Anyone who reads the Bible should be able to tell that it's not entirely peaceful. "Peace" is contingent on complete submission to Yahweh. It is the "peace" of resignation to subjugation, voluntary or not. While I have not read the Quran, reports are that it is cut from the same cloth wrt to its view of unbelievers and "infidels".
When a religion focuses energy on denouncing those who are not members it can always prove useful as a tool for the sacralization of expansionism and violence. It's no surprise that the world's two largest religions are so and have spread, through conquest, to people who were not traditionally Christian or Muslim before being conquered. Many other religions are introverted and culturally bound and therefore impossible to "export".
People can only use something "as a tool" when it is, by it's fundamental nature, amenable to such use. So it's worth asking why Islam and Christianity (esp. in the past when it had more political power) have been so useful as tools in support of racism, imperialism, and persecution of religious and sexual minorities.
Anyone who reads the Bible should be able to tell that it's not entirely peaceful. "Peace" is contingent on complete submission to Yahweh. It is the "peace" of resignation to subjugation, voluntary or not. While I have not read the Quran, reports are that it is cut from the same cloth wrt to its view of unbelievers and "infidels".
When a religion focuses energy on denouncing those who are not members it can always prove useful as a tool for the sacralization of expansionism and violence. It's no surprise that the world's two largest religions are so and have spread, through conquest, to people who were not traditionally Christian or Muslim before being conquered. Many other religions are introverted and culturally bound and therefore impossible to "export".
I said certain religions are suitable handmaidens to imperialistic endeavour.
They are compatible and can be repurposed (or just ... purposed) to sacralize it; make it holy.
I didn't say anti-religious governments have never been imperialistic.
(Though even these governments, in their extreme totalitarian forms, often replace the Abrahamic god with some other suitable "big brother" or "dear leader" who is almost venerated.)
TheRealTalker
Banned
people can cling on anything to justify their hatred when what they are clinging on doesn't advocate for such
you say Christianity and Islam but do you know that there is a genocide in Burma being caused by Buddhists?
Do you know some people kill other people over distastes in sports
terrible things happen when terrible people want it to happen regardless of religion, etc...
shrinking the percentage of having such people acquire means to do such crimes is understandable
since one can't find out what the future brings a justice loving person one day can become a crazy killer the next if triggered correctly... therefore there must be safety nets
you say Christianity and Islam but do you know that there is a genocide in Burma being caused by Buddhists?
Do you know some people kill other people over distastes in sports
terrible things happen when terrible people want it to happen regardless of religion, etc...
shrinking the percentage of having such people acquire means to do such crimes is understandable
since one can't find out what the future brings a justice loving person one day can become a crazy killer the next if triggered correctly... therefore there must be safety nets
The facts are self-evident. There are billions of Muslims and Christians (1.6 + 2.2 = 3.8 = > 50% of 7) and their distribution reflects the history of imperialism through Europe, North and South America, Africa and Asia. Those "religions of peace" clearly DO NOT exert a braking force on man's most base tendencies but are entirely compatible with them so I'm quite frankly fucking tired of their being placed on some kind of pedestal that they do not deserve. Their only concern is to spread like a virus carrying unfounded self-righteousness with them.
TheRealTalker
Banned
wait your saying a human being who goes and uses a said viewpoint and then manipulates it in order to push his/her agenda (politcal, economical, and selfish means) relates to the said doctrine?
Really? that is as bad as saying I can connect Secularism to Stalin, etc...
If you have a argument for the said doctrine then you point that out for discussion rather then pointing at actions of said human beings who have other means of pushing leadership.
The same way you find people causing faults with one doctrine you can easily find people doing the same with something else.
Take away religion and humans will find something else to be douches with each other.... and they have.
Really? that is as bad as saying I can connect Secularism to Stalin, etc...
If you have a argument for the said doctrine then you point that out for discussion rather then pointing at actions of said human beings who have other means of pushing leadership.
The same way you find people causing faults with one doctrine you can easily find people doing the same with something else.
Take away religion and humans will find something else to be douches with each other.... and they have.
@The RealTalker
Have you read the Bible? You don't have to do any twisting to find out what it thinks about people who don't serve its God. I grew up (fundie) Christian. I know what's in there. The "radicals" don't have to twist. The "moderates" have to ignore. That's my point.
People make it seem as if tolerant values are being warped by radical elements but this is not so! There is no free speech or criticism of Yahweh according to the Bible. That's blasphemy. There is no religious freedom under Yahweh. He is a jealous God. So the values of the societies that we now live in are FUNDAMENTALLY INCOMPATIBLE. For the religion to be shoehorned into a pluralistic society we have to ignore/suppress aspects of the faith. It's an uneasy truce for groups like Westboro Baptist Church.
I refer to the Bible more so as I am most familiar with it but my understanding is the Quran also contains similar ideological themes. Christianty, of course, has been largely barred from direct political power in countries it used to control. Not so with Islam. And we, of course, see flagrant human rights violations, from our standpoint, in countries under Sharia Law. It's God's will. Furthermore, as Islam is accustomed to political power it might be more inclined to seek that power through subversive means using the very same freedoms and rights guaranteed by the societies it (or "radical elements" of it) seeks to destroy.
(BTW, the fact that people may hate each other for other reasons is a very bad reason not to critique one reason they hate each other and do stupid things)
Have you read the Bible? You don't have to do any twisting to find out what it thinks about people who don't serve its God. I grew up (fundie) Christian. I know what's in there. The "radicals" don't have to twist. The "moderates" have to ignore. That's my point.
People make it seem as if tolerant values are being warped by radical elements but this is not so! There is no free speech or criticism of Yahweh according to the Bible. That's blasphemy. There is no religious freedom under Yahweh. He is a jealous God. So the values of the societies that we now live in are FUNDAMENTALLY INCOMPATIBLE. For the religion to be shoehorned into a pluralistic society we have to ignore/suppress aspects of the faith. It's an uneasy truce for groups like Westboro Baptist Church.
I refer to the Bible more so as I am most familiar with it but my understanding is the Quran also contains similar ideological themes. Christianty, of course, has been largely barred from direct political power in countries it used to control. Not so with Islam. And we, of course, see flagrant human rights violations, from our standpoint, in countries under Sharia Law. It's God's will. Furthermore, as Islam is accustomed to political power it might be more inclined to seek that power through subversive means using the very same freedoms and rights guaranteed by the societies it (or "radical elements" of it) seeks to destroy.
(BTW, the fact that people may hate each other for other reasons is a very bad reason not to critique one reason they hate each other and do stupid things)
"I refer to the Bible more so as I am most familiar with it but my understanding is the Quran also contains similar ideological themes"
Oh you're right at the start of your journey. Careful who you listen too. We're prone to find exactly what we seek rather than how they actually are.
I can already tell how far you extend your commentary with (relatively) little knowledge on the subject.
Oh you're right at the start of your journey. Careful who you listen too. We're prone to find exactly what we seek rather than how they actually are.
I can already tell how far you extend your commentary with (relatively) little knowledge on the subject.
This is a common excuse. We're just not knowledgeable enough. If we look hard enough and learn Arabic we'll discover Islam is a "religion of peace" that's why places where Islam is the state religion (like Iran and Saudi Arabia and the Islamic Republic of Pakistan) are shining examples of tolerance and human rights.
I don't buy it.
The proof of the pudding...
also
by its fruits you will know...
If someone tells me there aren't passages in the Quran that can justify violence against non-muslims, gays etc. I have to think they're lying.
What is it called, Taqqiya? Christianity has a similar concept too: "be innocent as doves but cautious as serpents" (Matthew 10:16).
Basically, be a snake in the grass. You don't have to tell your enemies everything when you might be persecuted.
Interestingly, the countries with a death penalty for "blasphemy" are also all Muslim which certainly puts a damper on any internal free speech and dialogue.
In Pakistan a politician, Salman Taseer, was murdered by his own bodyguard for questioning the blasphemy law on behalf of a Christian woman sentenced to death under it.
Secular journalists, lgbt activists (eg. Xulhaz Mannan) and bloggers in Bangladesh have been hacked to death at an alarming rate.
The Saudi, Raif Badawi, accused of "insulting Islam through electronic media" has been punished by imprisonment and flogging.
Hilath Rasheed, a secular blogger from the Maldives survived a throat slashing attack and has largely gone silent.
All of this contextualizes Charlie Hebdo, Theo Van Gogh etc. They can't be considered anomalies.
But I'm sure I'll hear that these are "not true Scotsmen" and that the Quran only says that you're WELCOME to criticize Islam and Mohammed.
These are just crazy people, all over the world, twisting a peaceful religion whose holy book actually consistently forbids them from killing on behalf of their prophet and God. /s
I would have to be extremely naive to believe that even if I don't have a PhD in Arabic and Islamic theology.
DOWN
Banned
So the FBI searched computers of both the shooter and the guys who claimed he was with them and says theres no evidence he was on gay apps or had a secret gay life interacting with any of those leads. They so far think the leads they've dealt with are confusing him for others they've seen or are flat out not credible leads
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news...ting-gay-evidence-lacking-20160623-story.html
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news...ting-gay-evidence-lacking-20160623-story.html
Ether_Snake
å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®
Yeah right
Whatever. I deal in facts not plattitudes.
The religion of peace doesn't seem to fucking promote that where it is in almost complete control politically and religiously.
Unless of course "peace" means totalitarian domination by Allah, no criticism on pain of imprisonment, flogging or death and only a shred of freedom of belief (or unbelief) if any.
I must apologize for feeling this way lest I hurt anyone's precious feelings (/s) but I don't find any of those things desirable.
But, of couse, you would resort to thinly veiled character assassinations when I refuse to handwave away the pernicious influence of Islam on the laws of some countries and the behavior of a significant number of people.
EXPLAIN HOW THE ISLAMIC HOLY TEXTS CONSISTENTLY AND UNEQUIVOCALLY FORBID VIOLENCE AGAINST OR HARASSMENT OF UNBELIEVERS AND WELCOMES CRITICISM OF MOHAMMED and I will agree that Islam is being "twisted" by the mentally imbalanced. If you can't do that, please desist from drive-by "oh you're such a terrible person" shitposts just because you don't like the fact that I can't ignore the obvious.
I was about to post this and forgot. It's interesting that the FBI is really contesting the angle that he might have been gay.
Monocle
Member
As someone who clearly knows what they're talking about, you mean?
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