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[ferrasvansen]

Given the way austerity has been sucked up by so many, I'm not so optimistic for some grand schadenfreude moment.

Yeah but the ones anti austerity are the working class and those favouring leave, the majority of middle Britain and upper class just got on with it and accepted it as a necessary evil. The ones who were loudest against it are now basically potentially bringing austerity on top of the austerity we have already, wow cannot wait.

 

[Ghost]

To be fair, the news has been representing pretty much every shitty thing that Leave.eu (not the official Leave campaign) has done as general 'Brexit camp' material, including the Farage poster.

The extremes on both sides of the debate are (as always) deplorable, I think what's been worse about this campaign is that the supposed moderates haven't done anywhere near enough to distance themselves from the extremists.

 

[jm89]

If our economy goes to shit because of a leave vote, i will just sit back and laugh as the Tories being in more cuts. Alot of the leave voters are working class so they will get shafted the most.

 

[hodgy100]

Yes, it may be someone local, but still shitty....I will say it does not look like it is from a 'official' remain side

why is it shitty? Farage has totally been playing the race and anti-immigration card, that's like this USP. it is totally creating divides between people.

Yes the murder was caused by an extreme individual and he doesn't represent the action of people who do want the genuinely leave. But the rhetoric of dehumanisation of "others" and how they are making the UK worse is stoking hate amongst the people.

I know it's uncouth to politicise an incident such as this. But avoiding talking about these things is preventing us from analysing the issues at hand, it screams of the same line of thinking of those that don't want to politicise shootings in the US as a way to dismiss any discussion on gun control.

Yes when immigration isn't handled correctly some people will be negatively harmed we need a frank and open discussion in the public space about this because the current "discussion" is toxic as hell, its fueled by hate and fear rather than rationality.

If our economy goes to shit because of a leave vote, i will just sit back and laugh as the Tories being in more cuts. Alot of the leave voters are working class so they will get shafted the most.

That's not really fair. these people are being mislead by the media and our own politicians

 

[Exterminieren]

That looks to me like Guido's run something off in Word and is claiming it's official literature.

I'm going to need a different source for that.

 

[PJV3]

why is it shitty? Farage has totally been playing the race and anti-immigration card, that's like this USP. it is totally creating divides between people.

Yes the murder was caused by an extreme individual and he doesn't represent the action of people who do want the genuinely leave. But the rhetoric of dehumanisation of "others" and how they are making the UK worse is stoking hate amongst the people.

I know it's uncouth to politicise an incident such as this. But avoiding talking about these things is preventing us from analysing the issues at hand, it screams of the same line of thinking of those that don't want to politicise shootings in the US as a way to dismiss any discussion on gun control.

Yes when immigration isn't handled correctly some people will be negatively harmed we need a frank and open discussion in the public space about this because the current "discussion" is toxic as hell, its fueled by hate and fear rather than rationality.

Constantly whining about her murder almost before her body was cold is making me actually hate people.

He didn't say Britain first on the day.
He's just Ill when that wasn't working
Whining about politics on her memorial day.

And now dragging up any old bit of paper from God knows where.

 

[hodgy100]

Constantly whining about her murder almost before her body was cold is making me actually hate people.

He didn't say Britain first on the day.
He's just Ill when that wasn't working
Whining about politics on her memorial day.

And now dragging up any old bit of paper from God knows where.

Well people seem to want her death to be used to tar one side of the argument. they have a vested interest in it to then persecute them when they do, "how dare you use the action of a single person and a tragic death to further your cause" the irony being that by goading like this they are doing the exact thing they want to demonise.

I wish they would just stop being about the bush and admit that we need to have a political discussion about the incident a frank and level one. No one intended for anyone to get murdered over the referendum.

 

[killer_clank]

I'm sure I read that the file prosecutors entered to court said he did say put Britain first or something to that effect on the day.

 

[CCS]

From Twitter

EU ref, as with lots of UK politics, is now basically London/Scotland/Brighton/Bristol/Oxbridge vs rest of country.

Oxbridge saves the day once again

 

[Hasney]

I'm sure I read that the file prosecutors entered to court said he did say put Britain first or something to that effect on the day.

Yeah, that's the point. They were trying to stop that narrative as one person didn't hear it.

 

[King_Moc]

No one intended for anyone to get murdered over the referendum.

Britain First did say that if they got in, all left wing politicians would be hung for treason, so don't be too sure about that.

 

[FlammableD]

we have to wait for all the facts

 

[ferrasvansen]

From Twitter

Oxbridge saves the day once again

You know what i find amazing looking at that picture closely, is that the majority of red dots are in the cities which are most affected by immigration and most of the blue areas have likely had small amounts immigration, kinda funny that.

 

[anonymous_abc]

You know what i find amazing looking at that picture closely, is that the majority of red dots are in the cities which are most affected by immigration and most of the blue areas have likely had small amounts immigration, kinda funny that.

That's the story of xenophobia all over the world...

 

[PJV3]

From Twitter

Oxbridge saves the day once again

It looks like the map from the UK politics thread where we all declared independence from Daily Mail island. We just need to annexe the motorway system to make it work.

 

[Ghost]

You know what i find amazing looking at that picture closely, is that the majority of red dots are in the cities which are most affected by immigration and most of the blue areas have likely had small amounts immigration, kinda funny that.

Mostly true but there are some exceptions, Norfolk for example and quite a lot of (ageing) costal towns

 

[ittoryu]

From the Guardian:

We are experienced retailers from Tesco, Sainsbury’s, Marks & Spencer, Asda, Waitrose, Morrisons and B&Q and with USDAW, who represent hundreds of thousands of trade union members, believe that if we leave the European Union prices will rise.

There are two key reasons for this.

Firstly, supply chains. We’ve spent the last few decades building very strong supply chains with the EU, which are fully integrated in order to deliver better quality, choice and value for the UK consumer. The single market and free trade are critically important to the strength of the consumer economy. Food is always one of the battle grounds for trade negotiations and the idea that we can reshape supply chains which have taken 45 years to build, in two to three years, is delusional.

Secondly, the value of the pound. In the past two weeks alone, as worries over leaving Europe have increased, the pound has fallen dramatically. This will push up prices. A ‘Leave’ vote will very likely make this worse and lead to a further rise in prices - such as the cost of filling a petrol tank, and the price of a weekly shop. We strongly believe that a Brexit will see less money in people’s pockets and be catastrophic for millions of ordinary families. That is why we believe that Britain should remain in the EU on 23rd June.

It has been signed by:

Marc Bolland, former CEO of Marks & Spencer and Morrisons

Sir Ian Cheshire, chairman of Debenhams and former chief executive of Kingfisher

Justin King, former CEO of Sainsbury

Sir Terry Leahy, former CEO of Tesco

Andy Clarke, the outgoing Asda chief executive

Dalton Philips, the former Morrisons CEO

Lord Price, the former Waitrose managing director, and now a trade minister

John Hannett, the Usdaw general secetary

 

[oti]

The closer we get to the vote the more anxious I get.

Please stay.

 

[Tak3n]

You know what i find amazing looking at that picture closely, is that the majority of red dots are in the cities which are most affected by immigration and most of the blue areas have likely had small amounts immigration, kinda funny that.

some one on twitter said something that I thought was interesting, we could end up in a situation where vast swathes of the counties vote to leave, but we end up remaining because those that choose to remain will have a higher vote in physical numbers...

Shows what a divided country we are

 

[ferrasvansen]

The closer we get to the vote tbe more anxious I get.

Please stay.

I want to stay, but damn my popcorn supply would have been pointless. I could deep freeze it an keep it for brexit mark two in 2018.

 

[avaya]

From the Guardian:

We are experienced retailers from Tesco, Sainsbury’s, Marks & Spencer, Asda, Waitrose, Morrisons and B&Q and with USDAW, who represent hundreds of thousands of trade union members, believe that if we leave the European Union prices will rise.

There are two key reasons for this.

Firstly, supply chains. We’ve spent the last few decades building very strong supply chains with the EU, which are fully integrated in order to deliver better quality, choice and value for the UK consumer. The single market and free trade are critically important to the strength of the consumer economy. Food is always one of the battle grounds for trade negotiations and the idea that we can reshape supply chains which have taken 45 years to build, in two to three years, is delusional.

Secondly, the value of the pound. In the past two weeks alone, as worries over leaving Europe have increased, the pound has fallen dramatically. This will push up prices. A ‘Leave’ vote will very likely make this worse and lead to a further rise in prices - such as the cost of filling a petrol tank, and the price of a weekly shop. We strongly believe that a Brexit will see less money in people’s pockets and be catastrophic for millions of ordinary families. That is why we believe that Britain should remain in the EU on 23rd June.

It has been signed by:

Marc Bolland, former CEO of Marks & Spencer and Morrisons

Sir Ian Cheshire, chairman of Debenhams and former chief executive of Kingfisher

Justin King, former CEO of Sainsbury

Sir Terry Leahy, former CEO of Tesco

Andy Clarke, the outgoing Asda chief executive

Dalton Philips, the former Morrisons CEO

Lord Price, the former Waitrose managing director, and now a trade minister

John Hannett, the Usdaw general secetary

Gove: again these so called economic forecasters got it wrong, they thought it was a good idea to support Hitler.

 

[milanbaros]

From the Guardian:

We are experienced retailers from Tesco, Sainsbury’s, Marks & Spencer, Asda, Waitrose, Morrisons and B&Q and with USDAW, who represent hundreds of thousands of trade union members, believe that if we leave the European Union prices will rise.

There are two key reasons for this.

Firstly, supply chains. We’ve spent the last few decades building very strong supply chains with the EU, which are fully integrated in order to deliver better quality, choice and value for the UK consumer. The single market and free trade are critically important to the strength of the consumer economy. Food is always one of the battle grounds for trade negotiations and the idea that we can reshape supply chains which have taken 45 years to build, in two to three years, is delusional.

Secondly, the value of the pound. In the past two weeks alone, as worries over leaving Europe have increased, the pound has fallen dramatically. This will push up prices. A ‘Leave’ vote will very likely make this worse and lead to a further rise in prices - such as the cost of filling a petrol tank, and the price of a weekly shop. We strongly believe that a Brexit will see less money in people’s pockets and be catastrophic for millions of ordinary families. That is why we believe that Britain should remain in the EU on 23rd June.

It has been signed by:

Marc Bolland, former CEO of Marks & Spencer and Morrisons

Sir Ian Cheshire, chairman of Debenhams and former chief executive of Kingfisher

Justin King, former CEO of Sainsbury

Sir Terry Leahy, former CEO of Tesco

Andy Clarke, the outgoing Asda chief executive

Dalton Philips, the former Morrisons CEO

Lord Price, the former Waitrose managing director, and now a trade minister

John Hannett, the Usdaw general secetary

Of course prices of all goods will rise. If imported they will rise because the pound will collapse. Even if domestically produced, they will still have imported costs e.g. fuel etc.

 

[Maledict]

i live and work in that area, and haven't had that letter at all (despite large amounts of literature from both campaigns). There's no way it's official, or even close to official.

Saying that, nothing it says is offensive or untrue. The guy is a far right campaigner. The leave campaigns have been using rhetoric and claims that are absolutely false and designed to prey on people's fears. Many found got an official leave leaflet with the 80million Turks in it after all.

 

[ferrasvansen]

some one on twitter said something that I thought was interesting, we could end up in a situation where vast swathes of the counties vote to leave, but we end up remaining because those that choose to remain will have a higher vote in physical numbers...

Shows what a divided country we are

Yep broken and divided, there was even an article on London leaving the UK, saying that it was unlikely but certainly not impossible now if Brexit occurs, jeez country could splinter just like the old Medieval days.

 

[oti]

I want to stay, but damn my popcorn supply would have been pointless. I could deep freeze it an keep it for brexit mark two in 2018.

lol

 

[PJV3]

The closer we get to the vote tbe more anxious I get.

Please stay.

I'm hopeful but prepared for the shitstorm.

 

[Maledict]

some one on twitter said something that I thought was interesting, we could end up in a situation where vast swathes of the counties vote to leave, but we end up remaining because those that choose to remain will have a higher vote in physical numbers...

Shows what a divided country we are

Huh?

That's the standard tale of any election - it's why turn out operations are so important, and why pollsters differentiate between registered voters and likely voters. It's why despite labour having s larger base than the Tories, they lose - because the Tory vote is very reliable and turns out.

A lot of the polls you see will already have adjusted for turn out, it's built into the models and filters.

 

[ClosingADoor]

some one on twitter said something that I thought was interesting, we could end up in a situation where vast swathes of the counties vote to leave, but we end up remaining because those that choose to remain will have a higher vote in physical numbers...

Shows what a divided country we are

Yes, that is how elections and referenda work... The group that lost will just have to accept that.

 

[Tak3n]

Huh?

That's the standard tale of any election - it's why turn out operations are so important, and why pollsters differentiate between registered voters and likely voters. It's why despite labour having s larger base than the Tories, they lose - because the Tory vote is very reliable and turns out.

A lot of the polls you see will already have adjusted for turn out, it's built into the models and filters.

Yeah, I get that...and that was why I was a strong supporter of AV, I just think on some level it is wrong, but on other levels it is right

for example London would argue that as the biggest population base they should not be told to leave the EU by the rest of the country (presuming all local areas of London vote remain) and vice versa the Counties could argue that why does London get to decide...

a endless argument that is probably not solvable

 

[Jackpot]

we end up remaining because those that choose to remain will have a higher vote in physical numbers...

Well, of course. How else would a referendum be won?

 

[PJV3]

Well, of course. How else would a referendum be won?

Square footage.

 

[CharmingCharlie]

If our economy goes to shit because of a leave vote, i will just sit back and laugh as the Tories being in more cuts. Alot of the leave voters are working class so they will get shafted the most.

The working class will get shafted regardless of whether we stay in or leave. The Tories will bring in more cuts regardless of whether we stay or leave. The only difference is that they will use Brexit as the excuse to do the cutting.

The middle class has used every opportunity to fuck the working class. So is it any surprise that the working class are seizing the one opportunity they have to fuck the middle classes.

 

[liquidtmd]

Yes, that is how elections and referenda work... The group that lost will just have to accept that.

My sadness stems from, come Friday at 7am, I don't believe that will happen either way.

 

[Tak3n]

Well, of course. How else would a referendum be won?

I dont know, but I do know that London should not always get to decide for the rest of the country

But that is a whole other argument

 

[mehrmantrout]

The immigration argument is mostly a failure of successive Govts than the EU. Theres still probably 500k+ Asylum seekers who never had there case dealt with from 10yrs+ ago, then Labour not putting a limit on the ascension countries joining the EU

Though on the flip side you could argue that Art8 of the Human Rights Act gave people an easy mechanism to stay in the country

 

[hodgy100]

I dont know, but I do know that London should not always get to decide for the rest of the country

But that is a whole other argument

No but the people do get to decide, if there are more people living in london then so be it. everyone's vote should be equal. we shouldn't have this bullshit that we have now in the GE where when i lived in nottingham my vote was worth 3x more than it is now I live in sheffield.

 

[Hasney]

The working class will get shafted regardless of whether we stay in or leave. The Tories will bring in more cuts regardless of whether we stay or leave. The only difference is that they will use Brexit as the excuse to do the cutting.

The middle class has used every opportunity to fuck the working class. So is it any surprise that the working class are seizing the one opportunity they have to fuck the middle classes.

Well I mean sure, we know some cuts will happen. But remaining would stop the poorest from having a double whammy of higher food bills too while this all gets worked out.

 

[Dilly]

I dont know, but I do know that London should not always get to decide for the rest of the country

But that is a whole other argument

What utter nonsense, a vote from a small town shouldn't hold more weight than one from a big city.

Londexit 2020.

 

[PJV3]

The working class will get shafted regardless of whether we stay in or leave. The Tories will bring in more cuts regardless of whether we stay or leave. The only difference is that they will use Brexit as the excuse to do the cutting.

The middle class has used every opportunity to fuck the working class. So is it any surprise that the working class are seizing the one opportunity they have to fuck the middle classes.

There is nothing you could offer or say to some of these people to vote remain, it's a chance to put the boot into those who have done well and left them behind.

I partly agree with them, but the risks are too great for me with what could be unleashed.

 

[ClosingADoor]

I dont know, but I do know that London should not always get to decide for the rest of the country

But that is a whole other argument

London is about 8.5 million people. England is 53 million. How exactly is London deciding everything if every vote counts the same?

 

[avaya]

London is about 8.5 million people. England is 53 million. How exactly is London deciding everything if every vote counts the same?

Maths is for experts

 

[gerg]

I dont know, but I do know that London should not always get to decide for the rest of the country

But that is a whole other argument

The only way the current dynamic in British politics will change is if the economic situation outside London starts to more closely resemble that within London.

Otherwise all you can suggest is that votes within London are somehow discounted or weighted against, which would be ridiculous.

 

[Maledict]

The working class will get shafted regardless of whether we stay in or leave. The Tories will bring in more cuts regardless of whether we stay or leave. The only difference is that they will use Brexit as the excuse to do the cutting.

The middle class has used every opportunity to fuck the working class. So is it any surprise that the working class are seizing the one opportunity they have to fuck the middle classes.

The JRF, amongst various places, have done research which shows (unsurprisingly) that the people who will suffer the most from Brexit are those with the least resources and opportunists - e.g. The poor and working class. A Brexit vote to screw the middle class is literally cutting your own nose off to site your face.

Not touching the nonsense about the middle class conducting class at against the working class with a fifty foot barge pole.

 

[Tak3n]

London is about 8.5 million people. England is 53 million. How exactly is London deciding everything if every vote counts the same?

That is not what I meant really, there are 32 counties in England, if for example 28 voted leave but 4 voted remain, but the individual votes meant the result is remain as a overall result it does not base the true feelings of the individual counties

what it does do is mean those with a higher amount of people have usurped the counties...which by actual numbers would be London....

so If the vote was by Counties the result will be leave (I think that is a given?) if the vote is by per person, the vote is likely remain.....

that is all I am saying, I am not arguing for either, I am saying the vote wont be representative of the country as a whole

 

[CCS]

That is not what I meant really, there are 32 counties in England, if for example 28 voted leave but 4 voted remain, but the individual votes meant the result is remain as a overall result it does not base the true feelings of the individual counties

what it does do is mean those with a higher amount of people have usurped the counties...which by actual numbers would be London....

so If the vote was by Counties the result will be leave (I think that is a given?) if the vote is by per person, the vote is likely remain.....

that is all I am saying, I am not arguing for either, I am saying the vote wont be representative of the country as a whole

So what you are saying is picking the option that more people voted for is not representative? You what?

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

Hoping UK remains in. I have good hopes.

 

[hodgy100]

That is not what I meant really, there are 32 counties in England, if for example 28 voted leave but 4 voted remain, but the individual votes meant the result is remain as a overall result it does not base the true feelings of the nation...

what it does do is mean those with a higher amount of people have usurped the counties...which by actual numbers would be London....

so If the vote was by Counties the result will be leave (I think that is a given?) if the vote is by per person, the vote is likely remain.....

that is all I am saying, I am not arguing for either, I am saying the vote wont be representative of the country as a whole

what? the people are representative of the country.

doing things by county will hand a disproportionate amount of power to those that live in the lowest populated counties. Then you have a small number of people having more power than others just because of where they live.

now that's undemocratic.

 

[liquidtmd]

That is not what I meant really, there are 32 counties in England, if for example 28 voted leave but 4 voted remain, but the individual votes meant the result is remain as a overall result it does not base the true feelings of the individual counties

what it does do is mean those with a higher amount of people have usurped the counties...which by actual numbers would be London....

so If the vote was by Counties the result will be leave (I think that is a given?) if the vote is by per person, the vote is likely remain.....

that is all I am saying, I am not arguing for either, I am saying the vote wont be representative of the country as a whole

One man. One vote. It's a damn sight more representative of the country than your standard GE

 

[ferrasvansen]

That is not what I meant really, there are 32 counties in England, if for example 28 voted leave but 4 voted remain, but the individual votes meant the result is remain as a overall result it does not base the true feelings of the individual counties

what it does do is mean those with a higher amount of people have usurped the counties...which by actual numbers would be London....

so If the vote was by Counties the result will be leave (I think that is a given?) if the vote is by per person, the vote is likely remain.....

that is all I am saying, I am not arguing for either, I am saying the vote wont be representative of the country as a whole

What happens then if England votes to leave and the other 3 parts of the UK vote to stay, therefore a leave vote would not be representative.

 

[Tak3n]

The JRF, amongst various places, have done research which shows (unsurprisingly) that the people who will suffer the most from Brexit are those with the least resources and opportunists - e.g. The poor and working class. A Brexit vote to screw the middle class is literally cutting your own nose off to site your face.

Not touching the nonsense about the middle class conducting class at against the working class with a fifty foot barge pole.

I dont get that either, I have never met a nanny, or nursery assistant who is not on min wage. and that seems to be the rhetoric rolled out...."the rich like their cheap nannies" it has always been a low wage job and always will be