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[balladofwindfishes]

If we lose this it will be because the democrat establishment is utterly inept. The republicans are divisive, bumbling idiots held together by shared hatred.. the idea that their prospects are looking better than the democrats today is just so sad.

DNC, if you're going to scheme to slant the primary towards your preferred candidate you can't make it so easy to see through you. Either fly right and be fair or be so super secret in your methods that nobody can ever see what you did. What's sad is that the leaked e-mails merely confirmed what we all thought.

The emails didn't confirm anything. The idea that the DNC rigged the election for Hillary is still a baseless conspiracy theory.

 

[Lord Frieza]

We disagree then? That's not at all what I said. This is not a good situation for her, no matter how intensely she campaigns. It's hard for anyone to have positive results with all that is going on. They need their side, the controversy, everything to calm down big time. It's hard enough with how strongly Trump goes after folks, but especially when they are dealing with so much crap on their own side.

I just heard on CNN that Trump does indeed have a series of counter programming planned this week. I should have assumed that would happen, haha.

I know it's not exactly what you said, no, but it's more just the general tone of what you, and others are saying. So many of you just seem to assume that Hilary is DOA against Trump or something here, and I'm not sure why. This is the results of a just a few polls, released after the RNC (of which political bumps are totally normal), and even then it's been pointed out how these polls are questionable due to the exclusion of certain demographics and are deliberately done so (most likely) as has been shown on past elections, and also ignoring the fact that Hilary is still ahead in individual state polls of key areas and demographics. It's an overly defeatist attitude which, from what I can tell, is based almost entirely on Trump's performance in the primaries, which makes even less sense since he was always leading there.

 

[thepotatoman]

Sure, and no politician is going to get elected by telling the truth. But education programs that retrain workers who are unemployed as a result of globalization or automation are wildly successful.

Look, you are totally right. And it's really easy for me to say these things because I'm not a union autoworker who used to make 80K a year with a pension that lost that work to a plant in Mexico or Alabama.

But the reality is there is very little either party can do to stem the flow of globalization, which is why liberal policies of basic living wages and safety nets are the right method forward.

No one is going to be bringing back cobbling as a trade either. And there is nothing that a politician can do to keep manufacturing jobs in the US at such high wages when automation and globalization makes them cheaper. You can slap insane tariffs on everything to try and prevent it, but then you will get retaliatory tariffs and now the things that America does make will no longer be sold overseas and the US economy no longer functions on Americans selling things to Americans.

Policies designed to stop globalization do very little to return jobs that were lost, but do a lot to implode economies as investment flow out of the walled of nation.

Saying it's too late to stop globalism just sounds bad when you have the current president working to expand it, the current nominee giving huge support of it until well into the campaign, and saying that the past president most responsible for it is going to be "put in charge of the economy".

"Living wage" isn't exactly inspiring either. It's a great term for getting people to back minimum wage expansions, but it should not be the main economic goal. At least when republicans talk about tax cuts, people in the middle class do get a cut too, giving people in the middle class a selfish reason to vote republican.

It's also simply not believable that you can get the best of both worlds in this political climate. Yes, globalization combined with expanding worker rights and safety nets is the ideal, but republicans don't even want to fund those relocation programs you mentioned. It could be decades until we get around to doing serious work on the wealth and income inequality side of that equation.

 

[hawk2025]

It is time to accept the truth, Bernie was polling better against Trump not because he wasn't "vetted", but because:
1. the narrative of this election is pro- anti establishment / pro populism
2. Because of that, he does better with independents and white males
3. He gets the de facto liberal alliance (minorities + women, they all hate trump's guts and wouldn't be voting him regardless) plus a lot of angry white males who prefer him over Trump when given an option.

I mean yeah, he lost. But he still was a strongest bet against Trump given the current political circumstances.

Yeah, that's just plain conjecture at this point.

I don't buy it without new evidence.

 

[ChuChu]

a candidate like trump getting any support at all from this country just really messes with my head. i'm so incredibly disappointed.

 

[HalfBakedProphet]

My fellow americans, don't fuck this up. Seriously!

I can forgive you the 8 years of Bush but this...this is madness.

Why?

There has been this weird softening (or maybe even nostalgia?) of the Dubya years lately. Him and Cheney were extremely destructive, probably in ways we haven't fully felt yet. And Pence is cut from the same cloth

 

[DarkKyo]

The emails didn't confirm anything. The idea that the DNC rigged the election for Hillary is still a baseless conspiracy theory.

When I say the e-mails confirm something, I meant they confirm that the DNC is sneaky and biased to have to craft a specific narrative and also that they are too stupid to cover it up properly. Whether or not you can actually call it a scandal or that they "rigged" anything is something else entirely.

 

[kamspy]

Hillary will probably drop further if any of the yet to be released emails are even worse than what's out there.

There's no way the coming leaks don't get more incendiary by the day. The most volatile probably coming the day Clinton speaks.

 

[electrotonus]

If I had to bet, I would say that Trump will win the presidential election, even with a comfortable lead in the electoral vote. Sanders would beat Trump but Hillary will not.

Lifes of the ordinary Americans, i.e. working-class and middle-class Americans, did not only not improve in the last sixteen years (even though society as a whole got richer), it even deteriorated in many ways. Civic liberties were infringed, thousands were killed in terrible wars, rmore have been wounded, the jobs market is bleak, costs for education have risen dramatically and so on. The rich saw huge increases in wealth and income, whereas the ordinary people struggle to just get by.

And now the American voters who overwhelmingly consist of working-class and middle-class Americans have the choice between a candidate that is as establishment as you can be (Hillary Clinton) and an unorthodox candidate who promises to reverse the negative trends of the past two decades (Donald Trump). A lot of them may question the sincerity and honesty of Donald Trump but to most even the slight chance of him delivering on his promises beats out the guaranteed continuation of the disastrous politics of the past 16 years.

This election is not about racism or the revenge of white men as many Hillary supporters want to frame it. This election is about the continuation of globalist politics that benefit few and harm many. This has already shown in the primary elections where an outsider like Bernie Sanders nearly managed the unthinkable and beat the establishment's darling even though they did everything they could to prevent that from happening.

 

[Blader]

The emails didn't confirm anything. The idea that the DNC rigged the election for Hillary is still a baseless conspiracy theory.

Don't let facts ruin a good narrative!

 

[FlammableD]

I totally misread your post. I'll rephrase.

Yeah, and? Trump was always ahead in the primaries, which isn't the situation he's in now. The primaries, the situation surrounding them, and how they ultimately function is not a comparable situation to what we have now.

Ahh right, gotcha.

 

[SilentRacoon]

The DNC and Hillary brought this to themselves, can't say I'm surprised.

 

[Lord Frieza]

Jesus, all these people saying Sanders would have a better chance than Hilary. Sanders lost, by a sizable margin, to Clinton. He really should have dropped out of the running a long time ago but kept going to make some kind of statement. Sander fans really just need to accept that fact.

 

[Crisco]

This has already shown in the primary elections where an outsider like Bernie Sanders nearly managed the unthinkable and beat the establishment's darling even though they did everything they could to prevent that from happening.

Like what? Send mean emails? You people are totally divorced from reality at this point.

 

[yanipheonu]

Remember kids, the democrats will also get a boost after their own convention. This is the lull between conventions.

The actual interesting bit will be if the demos don't get that much of a boost from convention and/or the republicans maintain this increased relative popularity after the DNC.

Polls taken during and after the Republican National Convention, which concluded on Thursday in Cleveland, generally show Donald Trump continuing to gain ground on Hillary Clinton, making for a close national race. But it’s customary for candidates to receive a “bounce” in the polls after their convention. There’s not yet enough evidence to come to firm conclusions about the size of Trump’s convention bounce, but the initial data suggests that a small-to-medium bounce is more likely than a large one.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Clinton 40% (+2)
Trump 38%
Johnson 5
Stein 3

YouGov/Economist Weekly Tracking Poll


Can we calm down now? Panicking over one poll is stupid and pointless.

 

[inner-G]

Jesus, all these people saying Sanders would have a better chance than Hilary.

The red states Clinton did strongly in aren't even going to be in play for the general

Bernie does great in the battleground states AND doesn't lose 100% of the 'we want an outsider' vote to Trump

 

[Random17]

The red states Clinton did strongly in aren't even going to be in play for the general

Bernie does great in the battleground states AND doesn't lose 100% of the 'we want an outsider' vote to Trump

Lmao Clinton won most of the swing states

 

[Lord Frieza]

Remember kids, the democrats will also get a boost after their own convention. This is the lull between conventions.

The actual interesting bit will be if the demos don't get that much of a boost from convention and/or the republicans maintain this increased relative popularity after the DNC.

Yep, but oh you know, Trump has apparently "rewritten" the rules of elections...somehow...so numbers can't really be trusted. I guess. Clinton is doomed. If only Sanders had slayed the mighty beast of corporate America barely, just barely, in this rigged election. I guess.

 

[Slayven]

The red states Clinton did strongly in aren't even going to be in play for the general

Bernie does great in the battleground states AND doesn't lose 100% of the 'we want an outsider' vote to Trump

Sanders hasn't been campaigned against

 

[Lothars]

It is time to accept the truth, Bernie was polling better against Trump not because he wasn't "vetted", but because:
1. the narrative of this election is pro- anti establishment / pro populism
2. Because of that, he does better with independents and white males
3. He gets the de facto liberal alliance (minorities + women, they all hate trump's guts and wouldn't be voting him regardless) plus a lot of angry white males who prefer him over Trump when given an option.

I mean yeah, he lost. But he still was a strongest bet against Trump given the current political circumstances.

If I had to bet, I would say that Trump will win the presidential election, even with a comfortable lead in the electoral vote. Sanders would beat Trump but Hillary will not.

Nope that isn't how it would have gone, Bernie would have gotten blown out.

Bernie was never going to win that's fact. Trump will not win even if you and others want to pretend he will. He has a very small chance but that's all and when it comes down to it in November, he will be blown out.

 

[Blader]

This election is not about racism or the revenge of white men as many Hillary supporters want to frame it.

Maybe you should tell that to black, Hispanic and Muslim Americans who feel seriously threatened by the idea of someone spewing the racist and xenophobic rhetoric that Trump has potentially winning the presidency.

This election is about the continuation of globalist politics that benefit few and harm many. This has already shown in the primary elections where an outsider like Bernie Sanders nearly managed the unthinkable and beat the establishment's darling even though they did everything they could to prevent that from happening.

He did not nearly manage it. He lost by a lot. His loss to Hillary was much larger than Hillary's loss to Obama.

 

[avaya]

Seriously, this poll didn't sample 18-34? Fucking lol.

 

[kamspy]

The red states Clinton did strongly in aren't even going to be in play for the general

Bernie does great in the battleground states AND doesn't lose 100% of the 'we want an outsider' vote to Trump

I don't think Clinton does anything for most independents, which will worsen as the leaks keep coming. I can see Trump energizing people who have never voted before to vote in this election. Much like Obama was able to do. I think he's got the same appeal, but to an obviously different audience. It's a much larger audience to.

The unexpected turn out for Trump is what I think is the biggest thing to fear.

 

[MrKaepora]

Why?

There has been this weird softening (or maybe even nostalgia?) of the Dubya years lately. Him and Cheney were extremely destructive, probably in ways we haven't fully felt yet. And Pence is cut from the same cloth

Trust me. It's a gut feeling that I have.

4 years of Trump would make Bush look like Roosevelt.

A guy who isn't president yet and says that he would stop french citizens from entering the country because of the 'situation' that they have there? That puts in doubt the effort from close allies and NATO members?

I wouldn't give the nuke codes to this individual. The guy is crazy and dangerous, he may look funny now but if he goes forward with his promises I feel for dark times ahead for the rest of the world.

 

[Angelus Errare]

Ppl really need to get over Bernie losing. I seriously question how some ppl function in the real world

 

[msdstc]

I keep seeing this sentiment, but who is getting complacent?

Tons of people scoff at the possibility of pulling it off. People are convinced Hilary will dominate the debates. I'm honestly not so sure, Trump is savage, Bernie was a teddy bear. He just speaks over facts and calls people names and it works somehow.

 

[electrotonus]

Like what? Send mean emails? You people are totally divorced from reality at this point.

First and foremost they supported Hillary Clinton with huge loads of cash and secondly they ran a well organized media campaign for her to denounce Bernie Sanders. From day one on they framed Bernie Sanders as a lunatic and maniac who would bring the end times on American voters if he got elected. The usual scare tactics.

 

[smisk]

This is just a boost from the RNC, it'll go back down in another week [says increasingly nervous man for the 13th time this year].

 

[Lord Frieza]

The red states Clinton did strongly in aren't even going to be in play for the general

Bernie does great in the battleground states AND doesn't lose 100% of the 'we want an outsider' vote to Trump

He lost. It wasn't even that close, either. Like...I have no idea what the hell you guys are even on about. If it had been a close victory...well, okay, I could maybe see that. But he didn't. He didn't at all. He only stayed in the running to make some kind of point, or maybe it was a pride thing. I think people get way too confused about that. Cruz had a closer chance of overtaking Trump than Bernie ever did Hilary and he dropped out before Bernie. Think about that.

 

[TheOfficeMut]

Ppl really need to get over Bernie losing. I seriously question how some ppl function in the real world

They don't. They have video games and VR to hold them over.

 

[kamspy]

Ppl really need to get over Bernie losing. I seriously question how some ppl function in the real world

There was a good amount of byebitch.gif and 'lol we don't need your vote anyway' sentiment going around at the end of the primaries. Are they wrong for being put off by that?

 

[DarkKyo]

Jesus, all these people saying Sanders would have a better chance than Hilary. Sanders lost, by a sizable margin, to Clinton. He really should have dropped out of the running a long time ago but kept going to make some kind of statement. Sander fans really just need to accept that fact.

If you discount the narrative that was created about Sanders' campaign not to mention how the democrats threw all of their superdelegates at Clinton before any of the public got to vote, we truly have no idea how much better Sanders would have done if things weren't stacked against him from the beginning.

But that's a different matter, you're trying to compare how he would do against Trump to how he did in the primaries. He may have lost to Clinton but more people could have preferred him/voted for him in a Sanders vs Trump election than will vote for Hillary. I think there would be a lot more party unity and even more demographics leaning democrat if Sanders were the nominee.

 

[TheOfficeMut]

There was a good amount of byebitch.gif and 'lol we don't need your vote anyway' sentiment going around at the end of the primaries. Are they wrong for being put off by that?

Who gives a fuck? Are you voting for the voters or the candidate?

 

[DrForester]

Ad me to the Doomed camp.


I want Hillary to win, but I have a feeling Trump is going to get an unexpected turnout and the DNC and Clinton will screw this up. The Clinton's legacy if they loose going to be losing to a racist blow hard.

 

[Dinokill]

Clinton 40% (+2)
Trump 38%
Johnson 5
Stein 3

YouGov/Economist Weekly Tracking Poll


Can we calm down now? Panicking over one poll is stupid and pointless.

The media wants this to be close race to boost their ratings. There is no way Trumps wins this when every minority you could think of are pissed at him so relax. Of my Facebook friends the only people I know for certain will vote for Trump is a fat guy who compared Bernie policies to Nazism a while back and a guy which favorite movie of 2016 was Vaxxed.

 

[Killer Queen]

Tons of people scoff at the possibility of pulling it off. People are convinced Hilary will dominate the debates. I'm honestly not so sure, Trump is savage, Bernie was a teddy bear. He just speaks over facts and calls people names and it works somehow.

Because people are morons.

 

[KefkaPalazzo]

Clinton 40% (+2)
Trump 38%
Johnson 5
Stein 3

YouGov/Economist Weekly Tracking Poll


Can we calm down now? Panicking over one poll is stupid and pointless.

Polls are definitely going to go up and down and have different results, but it's not stupid at all, people need to stay aware of how close this election could be. Complacency benifets Trump and Trump alone.

 

[Lord Frieza]

Tons of people scoff at the possibility of pulling it off. People are convinced Hilary will dominate the debates. I'm honestly not so sure, Trump is savage, Bernie was a teddy bear. He just speaks over facts and calls people names and it works somehow.

I only see a few scoffing at it. There's a difference between being confident in something, and just ignoring it. Like, I'm confident Trump will lose for a multiple of reasons, both of my own logic, but actual factual numbers and polls. That doesn't mean I scoff. I know it can go south, but you can be confident in something without being arrogant about it (and I think most posters here are). It's the same as how you can be cautious without acting like the fucking world is going to end, which a lot of people posting on the other side of the equation, frankly, really need to learn.

 

[Crisco]

First and foremost they supported Hillary Clinton with huge loads of cash and secondly they ran a well organized media campaign for her to denounce Bernie Sanders. From day one on they framed Bernie Sanders as a lunatic and maniac who would bring the end times on American voters if he got elected. The usual scare tactics.

Right. What about the huge loads of cash and well organized media campaign framing Hillary as a liar, traitor, corporate whore, war criminal, murderer, or worse for the past 30 years? You do understand this how elections work, right?

 

[kamspy]

Who gives a fuck? Are you voting for the voters or the candidate?

No, but it makes the bridge even harder to cross when Hillary is already the embodiment of what they supported Bernie for.

 

[Mifune]

The unexpected turn out for Trump is what I think is the biggest thing to fear.

Yes. It's terrifying. There are always more white people.

 

[Rubenov]

Yep, I'm officially Diablosing.

 

[Lord Frieza]

If you discount the narrative that was created about Sanders' campaign not to mention how the democrats threw all of their superdelegates at Clinton before any of the public got to vote, we truly have no idea how much better Sanders would have done if things weren't stacked against him from the beginning.

But that's a different matter, you're trying to compare how he would do against Trump to how he did in the primaries. He may have lost to Clinton but more people could have preferred him/voted for him in a Sanders vs Trump election than will vote for Hillary. I think there would be a lot more party unity and even more demographics leaning democrat if Sanders were the nominee.

Okay, so you think party unity would be better for a candidate that you also think the party screwed over and was against day one? Yeah...okay. The Democrat party of now is pretty unified anyway.

But it's whatever. A lot of you Bernie supporters really just live in your own world, I swear.

 

[Lothars]

If you discount the narrative that was created about Sanders' campaign not to mention how the democrats threw all of their superdelegates at Clinton before any of the public got to vote, we truly have no idea how much better Sanders would have done if things weren't stacked against him from the beginning.

But that's a different matter, you're trying to compare how he would do against Trump to how he did in the primaries. He may have lost to Clinton but more people could have preferred him/voted for him in a Sanders vs Trump election than will vote for Hillary. I think there would be a lot more party unity and even more demographics leaning democrat if Sanders were the nominee.

I don't agree, Bernie campaign ended up being really poor especially for how many votes he got. It went from a really good campaign where his polcies were highlighted to insanity. I don't think he would have stood a good chance against any republican especially when the attack ads come out.

 

[FStubbs]

The media wants this to be close race to boost their ratings. There is no way Trumps wins this when every minority you could think of are pissed at him so relax. Of my Facebook friends the only people I know for certain will vote for Trump is a fat guy who compared Bernie policies to Nazism a while back and a guy which favorite movie of 2016 was Vaxxed.

Anecdotal. People on the left tend to hang out with friends on the left and vice versa. Lots of people love Trump - and are far, far more excited about him than they were Romney, McCain, or even Dubya.

 

[Lord Frieza]

Yes. It's terrifying. There are always more white people.

This assumes that Trump has 100% of the white vote. He does not.

 

[electrotonus]

Right. What about the huge loads of cash and well organized media campaign framing Hillary as a liar, traitor, corporate whore, war criminal, murderer, or worse for the past 30 years? You do understand this how elections work, right?

What does that change about the fact that Bernie Sanders did have to face those obstacles put in place by the establishment supporting Hillary Clinton and opposing him?

This is the way how elections work in America but not the way elections have to work in general.

 

[MrKaepora]

The media wants this to be close race to boost their ratings. There is no way Trumps wins this when every minority you could think of are pissed at him so relax. Of my Facebook friends the only people I know for certain will vote for Trump is a fat guy who compared Bernie policies to Nazism a while back and a guy which favorite movie of 2016 was Vaxxed.

Will they go out and vote?

Because in the end that's what will make a difference. Just look to the British who tought that the remain camp would win and woke up to the mess that Farage and company created.

 

[Abstrusity]

Why?

There has been this weird softening (or maybe even nostalgia?) of the Dubya years lately. Him and Cheney were extremely destructive, probably in ways we haven't fully felt yet. And Pence is cut from the same cloth

Mostly because Dubya made the decisions with Cheney deciding for him. Cheney, who stood to make a lot of money if Haliburton made a lot of money.

I can imagine that being the son of a president (especially one as disgraced as Bush Sr. was, to the point of pushing people to vote for Clinton instead) gives you a lot to work for...and I'm willing to bet that Cheney latched onto him for that reason.

Who doesn't want to be more like a relatively successful father/figure?

So with wrong information and, at the behest of Cheney, the US went above and beyond what we should've done and, in the process, pretty much created ISIS. Those deaths are on the hands of the commander in chief at the time, but Cheney was pulling his strings.

That, and, well...he's a better person that many give him credit for, just not very bright.

His brother on the other hand is worse -- drive Florida into the ground, push No Child Left Behind and ruin education for another couple decades(why not?) -- remove felons(read: Anyone who has the same name as a felon...or same middle name. Or same birthday...) from the voter rolls, 90% of whom just happened to be otherwise registered democrats, pushing Florida red that time...

Now he's going to paint, he's going to try to be like Carter, and he's going to keep his mouth shut for as much as he can about everything else.