Replaying Sonic the Hedgehog reveals it was kind of bad

Manu said:
Nope, Hill Top Zone is next. Then Mystic Cave.

Maybe you don't like the games anymore? Your tastes changed. It happens. Doesn't mean the games are bad.
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I really like Hill Top. It has dinosaurs. Best lava stage in the series.

I mean, maybe you're right. But they were my favorite games when I was young so the disconnect and apathy as I play just feels weird. I don't feel this way about other childhood favorites.
 
I always feel the "Sonic 1 is bad" is part of a general revisionist history that floats around. Sega generally seem to be on the bad end of it.

Sonic was a revolutionary game at the time. And it still holds up.
Is it the best game of the generation? No. It's not even the best of the series.

But to declare it a bad game?

It's visuals are surreal cubist brilliance, with more atmosphere than all of Mario 1-4 combined.
The music is iconic. Star light zones evening melancholy or scrap brain zone's industrial looming danger.
It establishes two iconic characters Sonic and Dr. Robotnik and the method of robotniks variable boss fights, and his amazing theme.
And most importantly the gameplay. It holds up today. Why? Because of the level design and more importantly the physics. It nails sonic. The sense of speed and more importantly inertia. If you want to play a bad sonic game, go download sonic 4. Sonic feels controls like a jam sponge.

Sonic is a platformer and if you think it's about holding forward to win then congrats on your job as head of sonic team in 2016. Marble zone is the perfect antidote to green hill. It's slower full of danger and methodical. And sonic adapts to it.

The difficulty spikes in sonic 1 are a bit all over the place. And there are def issues. Spin dash is an essential upgrade. The spikes issue (no spike invinciblity when hit) is a Problem(in only a few places mind)
It's not perfect sure, but what is?

It's still one of the best games ever made and incredibly replayable and endlessly enjoyable to introduce the next generation to.
 
Labrynth Zone act 3 seems to be giving some new to the game trouble. I can't imagine how that game would give you any real trouble on the first run. I suppose these games make you feel stupid for dying a couple of times, so it has to suck. I've noticed this with a lot of streamers when they move out of their box.
 
Sonic 1 is far from bad. It's obviously not the best Sonic game, but it was a good foundation for Sonic 2/3 to build on. I just played Sonic 2 yesterday and was surprised at how good it still is.
 
Menitta said:
If that's his only reason for disliking sonic, then his argument falls apart. That same reason can be used to make a good game. The idea of Sonic came about when the designer was playing Mario by trying to complete the stage as quickly as possible.
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He has some good points but it feels like they also carry that Jeff Gerstmann irrationality of "It sucks because it just does!"
Like he's always had some kind of personal beef with a game and can't quite look past it. Maybe I'm wrong.
 
IrishNinja said:
yeah, if one cannot find joy in Casino Night...pack it up, this excellent series is not for you
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Eh. When I was a kid I loved the novelty of Sonic being a pinball. But as an adult I don't find any hook or catch in the level besides that. I'm at the point where I'm blazing through and I'm bored out of my mind. Maybe they're not for me anymore.
 
Starlight Zone was such a wonderful breeze and blast, I wish it didn't have to end :(

Time for SCRAP BRAIN ZONE.

It should be known that as a kid I never appreciated either Sonic the Hedgehog or Revenge of Shinobi yet now as an adult I love both games.

Arkeband said:
Yep. Every song is not only compressed in a garbled, muted state, but nearly every song inhabits some poor imitation of 90's hip-hop, and they're all very same-y. It is by far the worst soundtrack of the original series. At least Sonic R's soundtrack was so bizarre that it became a meme, Sonic CD's music is infinitely forgettable, like the game it's attached to.
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I am not the biggest fan of Sonic CD but I cannot agree to this. The bad future's definitely are dark but Stardust Speedway Bad Future and Wacky Workbench Bad Future do not sound alike to me.
 
Cindi Mayweather said:
Eh. When I was a kid I loved the novelty of Sonic being a pinball. But as an adult I don't find any hook or catch in the level besides that. I'm at the point where I'm blazing through and I'm bored out of my mind. Maybe they're not for me anymore.
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It's a possibility that maybe the series isn't for you. This is fine. This doesn't mean the game is bad. You don't have to spend so much energy trying to prove to everyone how bad you think the game is because 20 something years later, you aren't rotating Genesis titles with your Call of Duty (or something similar) matches.

When measuring a game's worth, you have to measure it against other games of that time. The game was mighty fine and something new at that time. Nothing was like it. It's appeal was so strong and well received it helped put Sega in the map intentionally, and spawned a series we are still getting titles for today. In fact, the newer titles being developed are all out efforts to recapture the glory of those originals. That says a whole lot more than anything you said in the OP in terms of Sonic's greatness.
 
Jaeger said:
It's a possibility that maybe the series isn't for you. This is fine. This doesn't mean the game is bad. You don't have to spend so much energy trying to prove to everyone how bad you think the game is because 20 something years later, you aren't rotating Genesis titles with your Call of Duty (or something similar) matches.

When measuring a game's worth, you have to measure it against other games of that time. The game was mighty fine and something new at that time. Nothing was like it. It's appeal was so strong and well received it helped put Sega in the map intentionally, and spawned a series we are still getting titles for today. In fact, the newer titles being developed are all out efforts to recapture the glory of those originals. That says a whole lot more than anything you said in the OP in terms of Sonic's greatness.
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I think many other games at the time are better than Sonic 1. I just legit don't think it's good.
 
This thread made me boot up that good ol' Green Hill zone....in Sonic Generations, this game is dope.

Toxi said:
Heat Man's stage can go fuck itself.
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The first time you come across the disappearing block finale is pretty dang unforgivable in an almost hilarious way
"You thought you would jump forward like the previous blocks but the block was above your head all along!", specifically this one is delivered over the bottomless pit for extra middle finger points.
 
Spaced Harrier said:
I always feel the "Sonic 1 is bad" is part of a general revisionist history that floats around. Sega generally seem to be on the bad end of it.
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Jaeger said:
Revisionist threads are always fun.
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yeah, this happens to sega franchises way too often...things were messy/sad when Jet Grind Radio HD dropped and modern gamers weren't ready for arcade style gameplay bliss

Cindi Mayweather said:
Eh. When I was a kid I loved the novelty of Sonic being a pinball. But as an adult I don't find any hook or catch in the level besides that. I'm at the point where I'm blazing through and I'm bored out of my mind. Maybe they're not for me anymore.
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eh, it happens! as a kid, id run through any JRPG i could find...now there's a ton i won't revisit.
i pray i never tire of Katamari, personally
 
Guess Who said:
Also, realtalk: most of the old Mega Man and Castlevania games have way more unfair trial-and-error bullshit than any given Sonic game.
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I think the only area that is trial and error in Sonic 1, is Scrap Brain Zone _Act_1_. And maybe a small section in Act 2.

Act 1 cause it has several death pits where you gotta dominate the crazy rotating platforms to avoid (although these platforms aren't as difficult as the ones on the higher, less lethal but harder to reach, areas of the level). And also at the start there is a collapsing bridge that will kill you if you let it drop it down.

In Act 2 there is a buzzsaw going through the ground after some conveyor belts which is unexpected and could kill you with some bad luck. You have time to jump, but I don't think you are presented with it beforehand. I _think_ it misses you if you are running top speed tho.

Old Castlevania will always have some section with bullshit staircase climbing and projectile throwing enemies that are way more annoying.
 
Phediuk said:
Do people suddenly lose their fine motor skills when playing Sonic, or something?

I don't understand how people in these threads always seem to be horrifically bad at the games.
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That and some were coming up with incredibly bizzare reasons for why Sonic 1-3&K are somehow uglier than Super Mario World. "There's too much stuff on the screen! I can't even see where Sonic is!"

http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=1248975&page=1

I'm beginning to think the Sonic-haters are trolling at this point, else they're just as weird as the most out-there Sonic lovers.
 
Cindi Mayweather said:
I think many other games at the time are better than Sonic 1. I just legit don't think it's good.
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And I think you should keep those thoughts to yourself then.
Or you could perhaps list those games so that other people can pick them apart.

Also, would you like to tell us next that you rewatched Citizen Kane, but didn't like it, and can't understand why some call it one of the most influential films of all time? It's black and white, how boring!
 
ElFly said:
I think the only area that is trial and error in Sonic 1, is Scrap Brain Zone _Act_1_. And maybe a small section in Act 2.

Act 1 cause it has several death pits where you gotta dominate the crazy rotating platforms to avoid (although these platforms aren't as difficult as the ones on the higher, less lethal but harder to reach, areas of the level). And also at the start there is a collapsing bridge that will kill you if you let it drop it down.

In Act 2 there is a buzzsaw going through the ground after some conveyor belts which is unexpected and could kill you with some bad luck. You have time to jump, but I don't think you are presented with it beforehand. I _think_ it misses you if you are running top speed tho.

Old Castlevania will always have some section with bullshit staircase climbing and projectile throwing enemies that are way more annoying.
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I'm just playing though it, the great thing about Scrap Brain is there is a section beforehand with the rotating platforms that teaches you to time your jumps just right. There was however a point where I'd have to look down to get to the next section, worst case is you'd have to fall into a electric pit if you're really unlucky.

Got crushed in Act 2 cause of conveyour belts and drums though haha.
 
IrishNinja said:
yeah, this happens to sega franchises way too often...things were messy/sad when Jet Grind Radio HD dropped and modern gamers weren't ready for arcade style gameplay bliss



eh, it happens! as a kid, id run through any JRPG i could find...now there's a ton i won't revisit.
i pray i never tire of Katamari, personally
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JSR is different from Sonic IMO. JSR is a game that takes skill. I know the game like the back of my hand and it can still trip me up sometimes. JSR also isn't the best comparison because it's a game that has a steep learning curve and you have to get used to the controls. It's not something you get without putting time into it. Sonic is a pick up and play 2d platformer. There's nothing complicated about it. JSR's levels stand on their own and I can say they're some of the best design levels in a game ever made. A lot of the stuff in Sonic is really easy. I can't say the same for it.

Also, a lot of the people who complained about JSR couldn't get past basic things like spraying Poison Jam.

Me saying Sonic 1 is bad after beating it isn't comparable.

Surta said:
And I think you should keep those thoughts to yourself then.
Or you could perhaps list those games so that other people can pick them apart.

Also, would you like to tell us next that you rewatched Citizen Kane, but didn't like it, and can't understand why some call it one of the most influential films of all time? It's black and white, how boring!
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Haha, what? I should keep my opinions to myself? This is a discussion board. What the hell?
 
Aki-at said:
I'm just playing though it, the great thing about Scrap Brain is there is a section beforehand with the rotating platforms that teaches you to time your jumps just right. There was however a point where I'd have to look down to get to the next section, worst case is you'd have to fall into a electric pit if you're really unlucky.

Got crushed in Act 2 cause of conveyour belts and drums though haha.
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You are not wrong, but depending on your route I think you can get to the bottom of SB1 without seeing them first in a safe environment.

Drums are the most lethal thing in Act 2. Nowadays with the spin dash it is way easier, but back then that def required skills.
 
Managing your momentum can be pretty tricky. Lots of rocking the d-pad back and forth to be very precise. It's just a lot of fun "owning" a level in your own style with spinning at the correct time, doing trick jumps, etc.

I like Sonic games more than I like JGR, and I 100%'d and love JGR.

Kind of funny how different some strokes can be.
 
Professor Beef said:
The music alone prevents that from happening.

Also this might be the first thread where we're allies.
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Spaced Harrier said:
Ironic really, Irish beef is really good.
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Cindi Mayweather said:
JSR is different from Sonic IMO. JSR is a game that takes skill. I know the game like the back of my hand and it can still trip me up sometimes. JSR also isn't the best comparison because it's a game that has a steep learning curve and you have to get used to the controls. It's not something you get without putting time into it. Sonic is a pick up and play 2d platformer. There's nothing complicated about it. JSR's levels stand on their own and I can say they're some of the best design levels in a game ever made. A lot of the stuff in Sonic is really easy. I can't say the same for it.

Also, a lot of the people who complained about JSR couldn't get past basic things like spraying Poison Jam.

Me saying Sonic 1 is bad after beating it isn't comparable.
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didn't mean to juxtapose the 2, but since you mentioned it: i do believe both are played "wrong" from time to time. your posts indicate that you get it's not about just holding right to win (always hated that meme), but parts of 1 are clearly a chore for people who didn't want to slow down, or felt that the pace should always be that of green hill zone

for me, classic sonic games are excellent platformers, where speed is the reward for learning a level. even marble/labyrinth etc zones i didn't think could be blazed through are pretty cool when watching speedruns, i think.
 
ElFly said:
You are not wrong, but depending on your route I think you can get to the bottom of SB1 without seeing them first in a safe environment.

Drums are the most lethal thing in Act 2. Nowadays with the spin dash it is way easier, but back then that def required skills.
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You can indeed miss them but ONLY by a little bit, you have to get in the tube you came through again to overlook them and I don't think most people would have but I could see it as a legit concern. Of course the lower route is also by far the hardest path to take but it does seem the "quickest" so I wonder if people would backtrack on a retry haha!

Spindash defintely doesn't help against those drums in act 2 though, you're just dragged back or foward too slowly/quickly I think. Though there are only 2 drums so it's not a VERY hard hazard to pass.

Surta said:
Also, would you like to tell us next that you rewatched Citizen Kane, but didn't like it, and can't understand why some call it one of the most influential films of all time? It's black and white, how boring!
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Hmmm you didn't get this off of me on Twitter in a chat with a friend did you? :P
 
Not a popular opinion, but I'd rank the Sega Master System Sonic the Hedgehog above the Mega Drive version. I'd even rank it as the best 8-bit platformer I ever played, even higher than Super Mario Bros 3.

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I did not own it but watched a live playthrough by my cousin, collecting all emeralds for the good ending. One of the most difficult console platformers.

http://www.seganerds.com/2013/07/23/master-system-memories-sonic-the-hedgehog/

Probably because of this:

As with every new generation of consoles, the 16-bit systems of yesteryear were not cheap at launch. SEGA’s 8-bit console, the Master System, already had a rich install base, and it was no-brainier to bring Sonic to the many fans who were still yet to jump ship. SEGA set to work assembling a small group of people who’s sole purpose was to make this happen. Replicating Sonic’s unprecedented speed and colourful graphics on 8-bit hardware was not to be an easy task. Creating the sense of speed found in the 16-bit versions with a far slower processor speed and to produce graphics as pretty with such a limited colour palette was next to impossible. Instead, the development team chose to focus more on the platforming aspect, with unique and varied locations created especially for the Master System.

Bonus levels can still be accessed by finishing each stage with 50 rings or more, but they now no longer house Chaos Emeralds. Instead, six of Sonic’s precious trinkets are hidden throughout all of the Zones included in the game. It sounds simple, as they’re literally just placed on the ground for players to grab, but you’ll have to put your exploration and platforming skills to good use if you’re to find them all.
 
Surta said:
Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should...

Still waiting for your list of "many other games" contemporary to Sonic 1 that are better in your opinion.
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Telling people they shouldn't express an opinion just because you don't like it is silly.
 
IrishNinja said:
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didn't mean to juxtapose the 2, but since you mentioned it: i do believe both are played "wrong" from time to time. your posts indicate that you get it's not about just holding right to win (always hated that meme), but parts of 1 are clearly a chore for people who didn't want to slow down, or felt that the pace should always be that of green hill zone

for me, classic sonic games are excellent platformers, where speed is the reward for learning a level. even marble/labyrinth etc zones i didn't think could be blazed through are pretty cool when watching speedruns, i think.
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In JSR if I want to speed run I have to plan out a route from tag 1 to the last tag. It's done in a way that even after mastering the game requires you to be present. What order? Do you want to risk tagging big tags while henchmen are out? Go for it. The controls are done in a way that if you aren't minding what you're doing even a vet can fuck up.

I got through Casino Night and I'm bored. All I did was spin dash and blaze through. Same for Chemical Plant. Lots of watching Sonic going through tubes.

It feels like I'm playing on auto pilot. There's no planning. I'm just zipping through levels. I stopped at Casino Night because I had to go somewhere, but I know from experience Hill Top and Mystic Cave will be better.
 
Sonic 1 GG is a neat little portable game much in the same way Super Mario land is, but I'd never put it above any of the Genesis titles. The gameplay is way too basic and simplistic for me to put it on that level. Not a bad game, though. And certainly superior to all the other Game Gear Sonic titles which really aren't worth playing.

Except for Dr. Robotnik's Mean Bean Machine, of course.
 
SonicMegaDrive said:
Sonic 1 GG is a neat little portable game much in the same way Super Mario land is, but I'd never put it above any of the Genesis titles. The gameplay is way too basic and simplistic for me to put it on that level. Not a bad game, though. And certainly superior to all the other Game Gear Sonic titles which really aren't worth playing.

Except for Dr. Robotnik's Mean Bean Machine, of course.
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I liked Sonic Triple Trouble but it's been a looooooong time since I seriously played that.
 
So thanks to the OP I replayed and completed Sonic 1 on mobile and I have to say it's still a fantastic game. The only things that irked me was the special stages (In particular stage 3 was awful) and some badnik placements. I take full fault for one death, but the buzz bombers in the first section of Springyard Zone is a nasty surprise, thankfully there's a life waiting for you right at the beginning of the level.

Labyrinth Zone wasn't even that hard and neither was Scrap Brain, no the trickiest section I faced was in Act 3 of Marble Zone. Just before you leave the temple and face the boss there's a spike placed that appears and sends to back to the beginning of the section with all the bats and spikes if you are so unlucky. But otherwise I felt I was okay with the game through out and finished with about 22/23 lives and good reminder of the things I loved about the classics. (It was good research too, now to put it to use!)

Funny little sidenote as I was playing this on my phone, my Skype messages kept blinding me through out. Then I finally logged out of Skype when one message completed obscured where Robotnik was going to come and crush me in Final Zone haha.
 
I think the only parts of sonic 1 I dislike are the labyrinth zone boss and one section of scrap brain zone act 3 where you go without air for ages. They are just really difficult and unforgiving. The rest of the game is still pretty fun but you can tell it was the first shot at the series the other games are better.

This was written right after me this thread then going off to play the android version of sonic 1. I game overed at labyrinth zone boss :( though it could be due to touchscreen controls.
 
Sonic 2 was the first 'real' sonic game to me. The first one felt like a proof of concept or prototype.

Then in the sequel they actually tried to make good levels and mechanics and what not.

Sonic 3 was my first one I owned myself and I was in love with it. Loved the graphics and level design despite them being a little smaller and tighter than 1 or 2.

So I agree that Sonic 1 isn't good, but I disagree that the game at its core concept is bad. If that were the case 2 and 3 wouldn't have been good at all and the series would have just died.

Now when it comes to 3D Sonic games... That's a different subject altogether.
 
2, 3, S&K & CD all hold up like champs. I don't bother the original anymore.

I loved the Adventure games on release, but a decade later and they are absolute trash. Just listen to the soundtrack and get nostalgic that way, don't actually try and play the games.
 
Sonic 1 is def the weakest Genesis game to me although I still enjoyed it. Sonic 3/Knuckles is GOAT status to me.

Funny enough, I feel like the Sonic Adventure games aged a LOT worse than the Genesis games.

Arkeband said:
I've been trying to get through CD but it's a fucking mess. Every zone looks nearly identical, it's littered with bullshit traps that totally destroy the forward momentum, and the music is just terrible.
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Arkeband said:
Yep. Every song is not only compressed in a garbled, muted state, but nearly every song inhabits some poor imitation of 90's hip-hop, and they're all very same-y. It is by far the worst soundtrack of the original series. At least Sonic R's soundtrack was so bizarre that it became a meme, Sonic CD's music is infinitely forgettable, like the game it's attached to.
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