And Warner Bros and Sony get death threats for releasing shitty moviesCharlie Hebdo's latest cover.
They received death threats for it.
Translation:
Reforming Islam: Muslims, let it all hang loose!
Several French cities ban Burkinis on beaches, citing "public order" concerns
- Thread starter RustyNails
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And they got their office stormed and people killed for one of them too?
His Majesty
Banned
Wearing a burqa is already illegal in many countries because it obscures the identity of the wearer. That is certainly a justified ban imo.
That wasn't what I was replying to. But in some cases not allowing oppression might be. Countries that have ratified the UN woman's treaty (such as France) are obliged to not help in the oppression of women in any shape or form. As an interesting case in the Netherlands this led to the Dutch protestant reformed party to lose their subsidy because they didn't allow women on their voting list. Even though no woman actually wanted to be on the list(!), the government giving out money was by some judges deemed as supporting the oppressive stance.
Who remembers the Cairo '48 swimsuit competition?
Young girls and women shouldn't be socially pressured into wearing headscarves, they should be socially pressured into doing bikini contests so men can ogle them because FREEDOM! /s
I meant secular as in nonreligious, not secular as a form of state. In the latter I (sort of) agree with you, because a secularist state does apply a special weight to religion (namely that it is not allowed to infringe on government).
Hexa
Member
I have not the faintest clue what you're arguing or how it relates here. Things were bad before so the present doesn't matter?
We didn't get to basic human rights through the second industrialization period, we got there through Hugo Grotius in the 1600s.
The burkini ban in this very thread?
Audioboxer
Member
As much as I'd love a non-religious world I would happily fight for freedom of religion. Freedom of speech, freedom of religion and in this case freedom to wear whatever the fuck you want. All important.
I mean personally I'm as secular as you can get, but I also understand and accept we are not going to live in a world where that is everyone's cup of tea and the next best thing is a world where the above freedoms are in place so discrimination can be weeded out.
hydrophilic attack
Member
Fucking idiots. Let people wear what they want
Yeah allowing people basic freedoms like what to wear is cultural relativism and degressive ok. You're going above and beyond irony here.
DiipuSurotu
Banned
More like "fucking idiot". Again, it's just one mayor pretty much going rogue with a decision that will most probably be reverted by a judge in a matter of days. At least two different associations are contesting this mayor's decision right now and most politicians have declared they are opposed to this local ban.
Audioboxer
Member
Good to know.
We're not that far from each other really. I can imagine a temporary ban on Islamic ostentationism on beaches close to Nice*, though I wouldn't support it myself as it skirts on principles of secularism. I think government's are not allowed to target religions specifically, however I also don't think religions deserve many special privileges other than that and governments can have a role in breaking through oppressive cultures.
*Edit: to clarify not to annoy Muslims but if it is based on an appraisal that it could lead to unrest. However I very much doubt in this case it's based on the latter and not the former. I specifically do not think the former is permissible.
Palette Swap
Member
Nice to see southeastern France is still the usual racist shithole.
Baki
Member
So much hypocrisy in one post.
Anyways, this is not about women's freedom but this mayors dislike of Muslims.
This, it's unfortunately not surprising that it's happening in the southeastern.
Is there a limit to how many ppl you can put onto your ignore list? Let's find out!
walking fiend
Member
The statistics that I have freshly pulled out of my ass show that 99.9℅ who wear Hijab in western countries feel oppressed and are so happy to see the government breakthrough their oppression. They also confirmed that those who are oppressing them will certainly allow them to come to the beach naked and a forced dress code is not going to persuade their oppressors to prevent them from going to beaches altogether.
DiipuSurotu
Banned
Something that isn't in the OP is that the ban is actually only valid until August 31 (unless a judge declares it illegal of course). So we know the mayor is doing this for shock value and not for moral reasons. If it were for moral reasons the ban would last forever, not a month.
You Are Viewtiful
Member
Thank you for being honest.
This is exactly what most French people believe. The whole laïcité thing is just a façade. It's like their version of "state's rights".
Supermanisdead
Member
bloody_five... lmao
"They have way bigger problems to worry about now" says random guy on internet incapable of recognizing irony.
Are you serious? Securalism was put in place in France to limit influence of christianity in the society. Know your history.
I won't deny that France is culturally Catholic but for the vast majority it's surface level of Christianity. Secularism is way more important to understand the French mindset.
Bloody_Five
Banned
It's more complex.
France is culturally Christian but at the same time, it's deeply secularist.
France spent hundred of years trying to get rid of religion in the public space, including Christianity. A political candidate simply mentioning god would be committing political suicide in France.You have to realize that the criticism of Muslims is nothing compared to what the Catholic church got in the early 20th century. When we see American people swearing on the Bible, it's making us cringe.
We spent hundred of years trying to get rid of religion and suddenly you have Muslims, who are trying to bring it back and who seem to defy everything France stands for. It's like being a democracy and having people insisting on going back to monarchy. it's driving us nuts and it might be precisely the point.
To be fair, there is a bit of karmic justice in all this.
France brought all its Muslim population to rebuild the country after WW2 and treated them like shit with no plan for long term integration.
Sixty years later, surprise, we've got a big problem on our hands and I don't see a clean way out of this mess.
Deep down, it has nothing to with religion.
It's just good old fashioned revenge and rivalry between Arab countries rich with oil and their former colonial masters.
Fudgepuppy
Banned
What if they wear wetsuits? What does Islam and Cannes think of that?
Dr.Guru of Peru
played the long game
Dumb, hypocritical.
Regginator
Member
And they choose to comply to those rules. Who are you to forbid them? Oh wait, let me guess. They're brainwashed, right? Even if they think it's their choice, it's actually being forced upon them by the "patriarchal, sexist religion". In other words, you don't think Muslim women are capable of making their own decisions, and they need Muslim men for it.
It's the very definition of irony, do you know how sexist you sound?
They could, they don't want to. It's their choice, it's really that simple. Just as someone who prefers using a bikini. It boggles the mind how someone can defend this, and then act like "freedom" is a given in the West. More and more Muslims are being stripped from those very same freedoms. At first it was the niqaab/burka (only showing eyes), but it was deemed a security risk. "You never know who's behind one". Okay, that I could understand. But now this? Okay, what's the security risk this time? "Public order".... Get the fuck out of here.
What's next, forcing a Muslim store to sell pork and alcohol? ... Oh wait, that actually happened in France.
There was no plan for long term integration because at first north african workers weren't supposed to stay. Then position changed with "regroupement familial" but it was probably too much too fast.
Voysa Reezun
Banned
As an aside, I don't agree with this statement. Reliogion, in many ways, is just a vehicle for a series of individual and social values. Are you arguing that parents should not imprint their values on their kids? Good luck with that. Of course, parents should do this, and those kids will grow up and be able to compare their parents' values with their own experiences and choose which ones to keep and which ones to discard.
So you're saying some diet oppression is okay because if you don't allow it, it might get worse? Appeasement approach?
Bloody_Five
Banned
You know French political history quite well.
Yes, it started with "regroupement familial" and I still wonder what was the logic behind this decision and what happened behind the scenes.
De Gaulle gave Algeria independence in part because he feared that France would be swallowed by an ever growing muslim population, should former colonies remain French.
DiipuSurotu
Banned
Lol, maybe in fiction world.
Voysa Reezun
Banned
..and in, you know, real life. Some religions might promote values that you disagree with, of course.
Make a better post than this, please. I put at least a bit of thought into my response and would appreciate the same in return.
This is ridiculous, especially for the precedent it sets.
It's a convenient store with a public lease, it wasn't an halal store to begin
The lease was signed by franprix a general store, later the store was sold and the new owner decided to stop selling pork and alcool and doing so he is not abiding to his lease accordind to the hlm office
I think becuase they need to hide curves
Googly Eyes Dog
Banned
As an atheist, I'm usually not in support of religious "traditions"... however, I'm willing to make a strong exception with Islam. In Europe especially, Muslims are constantly discriminated against. Now more than ever do they need our support. I'm firmly against this ban.
Can't see how you would enjoy the beach while wearing this thing:
Then don't wear one.
I said wow. People are scared of a lot of things doesn't mean we need to pander to thier every whim, especially in a so called "democratic" society such as France. It's ridiculous and disgusting.
Islam is specifically about imposing Qurans values on people.
It's not "the religion of peace" because of the peace it spreads, but it is supposed to bring peace to people by imposing the same values.
Muslims in Europe aren't really discriminated against. However, Atheists and Christians are in pretty much all of Muslim countries.
As of now, atheists are a lot rarer on earth than muslims, so why exactly should we protect and support this religion?
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