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[Regginator]

It's a convenient store with a public contract, it wasn't an halal store to begin

Did the contract specify pork and alcohol in that contract? Because I very much doubt that. It probably said something about "excluding people" in general, which is as abstract as it can get, but that's hardly reason to force the store to sell something they don't want. There's not a single store out there that sells everything you could possibly want.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

As an aside, I don't agree with this statement. Religion, in many ways, is just a vehicle for a series of individual and social values. Are you arguing that parents should not imprint their values on their kids? Good luck with that. Of course, parents should do this, and those kids will grow up and be able to compare their parents' values with their own experiences and choose which ones to keep and which ones to discard.

That time has long since passed and I'm against that very notion.
We don't need God to tell us murder is bad, society and the law shaped by society does that already. There's nothing religion can teach us in values that isn't outdated already.
Parents can try and teach children their values but should not by forcing doctrines on them, not to mention financially incentivizing them. I'm baptised, did first communion and confirmation and that despite stop giving a rats ass about catholicism in elementary school just for the money.

I won't pretend not to have a bias and the arrogance that so often comes with atheism though.

 

[Tiberius]

Did the contract specify pork and alcohol in that contract? Because I very much doubt that. It probably said something about "excluding people" in general, which is as abstract as it can get, but that's hardly reason to force the store to sell something they don't want. There's not a single store out there that sells everything you could possibly want.

The contract was mentionning general food store according to french article
The problem is one day the store is a franprix with pork, alcool,even halal stuff, and the next day bye bye pork and your bottle of wine

 

[Regginator]

The contract was mentionning general food store according to french article

But did that contract specify what a "general food store" ought to have? Because like I said, that's as abstract as things can get.

As for your edit, why does that matter? My local bicycle shop has closed and there's scooter shop now. I have to travel a kilometer or so to the nearest bicycle shop. Should I demand this new scooter shop to sell the same things the old bicycle shop sold? It's ridiculous. If anything, this is a perfect opportunity to open up a shop and rack in cash since apparently there's demand for pork and alcohol.

 

[G.O.O.]

If anyone is interested, some muslim collectives are taking this to court. Cannes is likely to lose, so can we please stop saying France = Cannes ? It's like saying all US is like Florida.

 

[freeofgreed]

Can't see how you would enjoy the beach while wearing this thing:

If you lack self-awareness and common sense to this point, perhaps being fined for 38€ is more than reasonable.

Searching for burkini shows that other countries also banned it in pools and such for various reasons, calling France racist is uncalled for.

And who are you to decide that for them?

 

[Kralamoonard]

Islam is specifically about imposing Qurans values on people.
It's not "the religion of peace" because of the peace it spreads, but it is supposed to bring peace to people by imposing the same values.


Muslims in Europe aren't really discriminated against. However, Atheists and Christians are in pretty much all of Muslim countries.

As of now, atheists are a lot rarer on earth than muslims, so why exactly should we protect and support this religion?

I've stayed away from commenting on this thread (because of how damn awful some posts are), but I can't really take this crap anymore. This is such bollocks. Your posts constantly scream ignorance and it's shocking how unaware you are of your surroundings and other people.

 

[DiipuSurotu]

If anyone is interested, some muslim collectives are taking this to court.

And also the Human Rights League and SOS Racism, and many politicians.

 

[Jacobi]

As if your post history wasn't enough, but I can't really take your crap anymore. This is such bollocks. Your posts constantly scream ignorance, it's shocking how unaware you are of your surroundings

Are Muslims discriminated against by law? Aren't they able to build mosques? Have halal food? Are they getting constantly searched by the police or shot by the police?

 

[Silent Chief]

France is a Christian country.
Its history is christian and for many centuries, France was know as the catholic church eldest daughter.

You might have missed it, but in 1789 there was this thing called the French Revolution and one of the things they did is throw out religion and become a secular state.
There was some bouncing back and forth, the state mandated the Cult of Reason and the Cult of the Superior Being, for example, but the end product was the Declaration of the Rights of Man and the creation of a secular society with Freedom of Religion for all.

So, no. It's not a Christian country. It's a country with a lot of Christians, but most are not religious. While in 1965, 81% of the French declared themselves to be Catholics, in 2009 this proportion was 64%.

 

[Mr. Giggles]

Muslims in Europe aren't really discriminated against. However, Atheists and Christians are in pretty much all of Muslim countries.

As of now, atheists are a lot rarer on earth than muslims, so why exactly should we protect and support this religion?

At the bolded, What a load of bullshit, you had gangs of young men roaming streets in Sweden or Norway IIRC looking for brown people to beat up

Forget Muslims, fucking bananas are thrown at black football players because they don't "belong"

Also, all Muslim countries discriminate against Christians and atheists? Receipts please

 

[freeofgreed]

Are Muslims discriminated against by law? Aren't they able to build mosques? Have halal food? Are they getting constantly searched by the police or shot by the police?

Based of the title of this thread i'd say...yes. Also since when was discrimination only limited to legal discrimination?

 

[Tiberius]

But did that contract specify what a "general food store" ought to have? Because like I said, that's as abstract as things can get.

As for your edit, why does that matter? My local bicycle shop has closed and there's scooter shop now. I have to travel a kilometer or so to the nearest bicycle shop. Should I demand this new shop to sell the same things the old bicycle shop sold? It's ridiculous. If anything, this is a perfect opportunity to open up a shop and rack in cash since apparently there's demand for pork and alcohol.

The store is in a poor neighbourhood where there's not many new stores (and stores at all)
It was a lease by a public organism to give a grocery store to many people who can't go to supermarket which are far away
The new owner completely transformed the store, with halal food and carpet for praying
A grocery store with general and halal food, is good for everyone in the community, not a halal only store

 

[Kralamoonard]

Are Muslims discriminated against by law? Aren't they able to build mosques? Have halal food? Are they getting constantly searched by the police or shot by the police?

So now you're moving the goalposts to legal discrimination? Discrimination doesn't necessarily have to be done by law.

But even if you want to play that game, yes, they are constantly getting searched by the police, and profiling is at an all time high.

However, artificially narrowing what you want discrimination to mean just shows you're ready to play whatever mental gymnastics you want to about Muslims and Islam in general. Looks like your mind is clearly already made up.

 

[A Link to the Past]

I don't think that the ideology that woman must hide themselves is something moderate

Good thing this is exclusive to Isl-- WHOOPS THAT'S EVERYWHERE LOL

 

[Jacobi]

At the bolded, What a load of bullshit, you had gangs of young men roaming streets in Sweden or Norway IIRC looking for brown people to beat up

Sources please.

Forget Muslims, fucking bananas are thrown at black football players because they don't "belong"

Also, all Muslim countries discriminate against Christians and atheists? Receipts please

That happened a few times, but football players aren't really a mass of people.

Do you want a big list? Even Indonesia, which is arguably the most lax muslim country has a few discriminating cases:
http://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/world/2015/April/Ex-Muslim-Koran-Revealed-a-Religion-I-Did-Not-Like

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris...nation_against_Christians_in_modern_Indonesia

Have you ever heard of Europeans vandalising a Mosque? I haven't.

 

[Kralamoonard]

Have you ever heard of Europeans vandalising a Mosque? I haven't.

Yeah, reading Breitbart or Daily Mail all day tends to do that. Maybe you should open your eyes a little and do something called research.

 

[Tiberius]

Good thing this is exclusive to Isl-- WHOOPS THAT'S EVERYWHERE LOL

Never said it was exclusive to islam, that's the same bullshit with orthodoxist jews and some extremists in the catholic church

 

[orochi91]

Have you ever heard of Europeans vandalising a Mosque? I haven't.

???

Twenty-six mosques around France have been subject to attack by firebombs, gunfire, pig heads, and grenades as Muslims are targeted with violence in the wake of the Paris attacks.

And that's just one of many such incidences.

Are you trolling?

What do you gain from minimizing the bigotry some Muslims endure in Europe these days?

 

[Don'tBeWeird]

Islam is specifically about imposing Qurans values on people.
It's not "the religion of peace" because of the peace it spreads, but it is supposed to bring peace to people by imposing the same values.



Muslims in Europe aren't really discriminated against. However, Atheists and Christians are in pretty much all of Muslim countries.

As of now, atheists are a lot rarer on earth than muslims, so why exactly should we protect and support this religion?

Holy shit.

 

[Jacobi]

???


And that's just one of many such incidences.

Are you trolling?

Why are you minimizing the bigotry some Muslims endure in Europe these days?

I didn't know of this.

 

[Mr. Giggles]

Sources please.


That happened a few times, but football players aren't really a mass of people.

Do you want a big list? Even Indonesia, which is arguably the most lax muslim country has a few discriminating cases:
http://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/world/2015/April/Ex-Muslim-Koran-Revealed-a-Religion-I-Did-Not-Like

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris...nation_against_Christians_in_modern_Indonesia

Have you ever heard of Europeans vandalising a Mosque? I haven't.

Lololololol

Source 1: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35451080

Oh you want vandalism hold on I'm on mobile.

Edit 1:

In France right after the Paris incident

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...s-increase-after-paris-shootings-9977423.html

 

[jts]

"can anyone please think of the free will of these women that clearly choose to hide their bodies and it's totally not the result of a messed up culture that treats women as inferior"

 

[DiipuSurotu]

Have you ever heard of Europeans vandalising a Mosque? I haven't.

Holy shit

I've stayed away from commenting on this thread (because of how damn awful some posts are), but I can't really take this crap anymore. This is such bollocks. Your posts constantly scream ignorance and it's shocking how unaware you are of your surroundings and other people.

.

 

[Dr.Guru of Peru]

Are Muslims discriminated against by law? Aren't they able to build mosques? Have halal food? Are they getting constantly searched by the police or shot by the police?

Do you even know what this thread is about?

I didn't know of this.

What a surprise. Maybe- just maybe- you don't know enough about this topic and should refrain from having a strong opinion?

 

[Palette Swap]

JAQobi.

 

[RustyNails]

I don't think that the ideology that woman must hide themselves is something moderate

What do you consider 'hiding'? Ignore Burqas. Do you think wearing loose, fuller clothing or a traditional headscarf 'hiding' too?

 

[Silent Chief]

Discrimination doesn't necessarily have to be done by law.

Maybe you're confusing discrimination with failure to integrate.

I've only met a few Muslims from France.
One was a PDF who married a Jewish woman.
An other was from Mauritius.
They never complained of discrimination.

Here in Ottawa, Canada, my department keeps laying people off and the only guy we've hired in 7 year was a Muslim from Bangladesh who got his degree here and aced an admission test before returning home to apply for immigration. He had his little carpet in his cube and it was a pain to know when to talk to him so as not to find him kneeling in front of his desk. Unfortunately, he left to go work for Microsoft. I'm sure people think we discriminate here as well.

 

[Claude Augario]

I didn't know of this.

You didn't know??

Who didn't know this?

If you're not aware of some of the basic aggressions against the Muslim population why the fuck are you making statements with any kind of authority about the kind of discrimination they do and don't face?

Am I being trolled?

 

[Jacobi]

Lololololol

Source 1: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35451080

Oh you want vandalism hold on I'm on mobile.

As far as I know that turned out to be a hoax.

Do you even know what this thread is about?

Yes and this will be abolished by court because that's how separation of powers and the French constitution work.

What a surprise. Maybe- just maybe- you don't know enough about this topic and should refrain from having a strong opinion?

You mean everyone in here is educated about European news? I mostly read German news. I always love that internet triumph of "you didn't know that? lol"

 

[Dr.Guru of Peru]

Maybe you're confusing discrimination with failure to integrate.

I've only met a few Muslims from France.
One was a PDF who married a Jewish woman.
An other was from Mauritius.
They never complained of discrimination.

Here in Ottawa, Canada, my department keeps laying people off and the only guy we've hired in 7 year was a Muslim from Bangladesh who got his degree here and aced an admission test before returning home to apply for immigration. He had his little carpet in his cube and it was a pain to know when to talk to him so as not to find him kneeling in front of his desk. Unfortunately, he left to go work for Microsoft. I'm sure people think we discriminate here as well.

Is there a point to this anecdote?

 

[Dr.Guru of Peru]

As far as I know that turned out to be a hoax.


Yes and this will be abolished by court because that's how separation of powers and the French constitution work.


You mean everyone in here is educated about European news? I mostly read German news. I always love that internet triumph of "you didn't know that? lol"

Charges were filed. There are videos on the internet. "As far as you know" is clearly not saying much.

These stories have been posted on GAF before. A quick google search turns them up. If you're going to vehemently deny something isn't happening, maybe you should take ownership of being ignorant when you get proven wrong within seconds.

 

[SirClinksAlot]

If anyone is interested, some muslim collectives are taking this to court. Cannes is likely to lose, so can we please stop saying France = Cannes ? It's like saying all US is like Florida.

Yeah, the US never gets shit on on this board by Europeans.

 

[A Link to the Past]

Never said it was exclusive to islam, that's the same bullshit with orthodoxist jews and some extremists in the catholic church

It's not even just a religious thing though. You even see atheists doing that shit.

 

[walking fiend]

So you're saying some diet oppression is okay because if you don't allow it, it might get worse? Appeasement approach?

I am saying it will get worse. Of course some people are arrogant, stupid [and in this case racist] enough to believe that whatever they do will have the result that they claim it will, just because they claim so.

The history of western people for the pats few hundred years have been shoving down their ideals down the throat of the rest of the world with force. And almost always it has just resulted in worsening of the condition of the so called oppressed people they tried to redeem.

 

[Mr. Giggles]

As far as I know that turned out to be a hoax.

Sources please.

Way to move the goal posts by the way...

"As far as I know"

 

[Tiberius]

What do you consider 'hiding'? Ignore Burqas. Do you think wearing loose, fuller clothing or a traditional headscarf 'hiding' too?

No problem with the headscarf, but with clothes like tchador and niquab and the ideology behind it

 

[therapist]

thats really stupid

 

[Jacobi]

Charges were filed. There are videos on the internet. "As far as you know" is clearly not saying much.

These stories have been posted on GAF before. A quick google search turns them up. If you're going to vehemently deny something isn't happening, maybe you should take ownership of being ignorant when you get proven wrong within seconds.

Sauce

"However, the police told the news agency dpa, they have no knowledge of attacks on refugees or other migrants."

Never seen any report about actual victims there.

 

[GusBus]

This is ridiculous, especially for the precedent it sets.

Sorry, but I want to live in a secular world, and France is the closest any modern country has come to achieving that. I think maintaining a secular social solidarity requires a ban of any religious attire outside of the home or place of worship (I'm not advocating for an actual ban on religion). That includes the burkah, niqab, and even the hijab, as well the Jewish kippah, a Sikh turban, or any other religious garb you can think of.

That's the price of admission to a secular society.

 

[Audioboxer]

"can anyone please think of the free will of these women that clearly choose to hide their bodies and it's totally not the result of a messed up culture that treats women as inferior"

Joke post?

Myself and as far as I can see others care first and foremost about protecting the freedoms we experience in our countries. Whether you like it or not everyone is entitled to those freedoms. If you don't defend the rights of everyone then you're not really a free nation and as a person a hypocrite.

The time and place for attacking Islam and its treatment of women isn't tied up with this ban and fine. It should be attacked as a separate issue, as in France the country doesn't treat its women like shit or it at least doesn't have laws against them and rights for husbands to beat, rape and so on. This ban as I've said ironically inches towards that. Protect freedoms or watch them erode, and protect them for everyone even if its for something you don't care about or like.

 

[TheHolyTurnip]

This is how terrorists win their war, one stupid law and overreaction at a time.

 

[Yeoman]

I didn't know of this.

Amazing.
Next time why don't you take the time to research your positions first before stating them?

 

[C0unter]

Sorry, but I want to live in a secular world, and France is the closest any modern country has come to achieving that. I think maintaining a secular social solidarity requires a ban of any religious attire outside of the home or place of worship (I'm not advocating for an actual ban on religion). That includes the burkah, niqab, and even the hijab, as well the Jewish kippah, a Sikh turban, or any other religious garb you can think of.

That's the price of admission to a secular society.

No, I think you want to live in an atheist society.

 

[freeofgreed]

Sorry, but I want to live in a secular world, and France is the closest any modern country has come to achieving that. I think maintaining a secular social solidarity requires a ban of any religious attire outside of the home or place of worship (I'm not advocating for an actual ban on religion). That includes the burkah, niqab, and even the hijab, as well the Jewish kippah, a Sikh turban, or any other religious garb you can think of.

That's the price of admission to a secular society.

Really?

 

[Audioboxer]

No, I think you want to live in an atheist society.

Technically that is just the same as a secular society lol.

Both just mean an absence of religion and/or religious belief.

 

[C0unter]

Technically that is just the same as a secular society lol.

Both just mean an absence of religion and/or religious belief.

Freedom of religion and religious expression is a core aspect of secular societies.

 

[commedieu]

Sorry, but I want to live in a secular world, and France is the closest any modern country has come to achieving that. I think maintaining a secular social solidarity requires a ban of any religious attire outside of the home or place of worship (I'm not advocating for an actual ban on religion). That includes the burkah, niqab, and even the hijab, as well the Jewish kippah, a Sikh turban, or any other religious garb you can think of.

That's the price of admission to a secular society.

Are those all banned? Esp kippah?

 

[Jpop]

Islam is specifically about imposing Qurans values on people.
It's not "the religion of peace" because of the peace it spreads, but it is supposed to bring peace to people by imposing the same values.



Muslims in Europe aren't really discriminated against. However, Atheists and Christians are in pretty much all of Muslim countries.

As of now, atheists are a lot rarer on earth than muslims, so why exactly should we protect and support this religion?

Ugh... none of that is true. If Islam is a religion forcing itself on everyone then so is Christianity, Catholicism and Judaism. Also countless other religions..

 

[Audioboxer]

Freedom of religion and religious expression is a core aspect of secular societies.

True. When I was going backwards and forwards with that poster earlier I was trying to point that out. You can't say you want a secular society and then approve of a ban like this.

I guess what I should have said is the definition behind the words may be the same in principal, but they can be used differently. "Atheism" has been latched onto unscrupulously in many modern cases which is annoying as its not suppose to be a club or following, just a lack of belief.

Some of these folks would be better off just calling themselves anti-thiests. They are against religion. I guess though in many respects I am an anti-thiest as well but that is a personal stance, I'd much rather have a secular country with freedom of religion and as such that is what I value more than my personal thoughts on religion. I want a better world for everyone not just me.