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[SomTervo]

Yes. No rotation, no orbits, no real sun.
One of the biggest disappointments for me.

They confirmed rotation was removed (or toned down to an unnoticeable level) late in development. I wonder when the other stuff was cut.

 

[flkraven]

You can also apply the logic the other way for any game, though - that no game meets its 'true vision' or is 'fully realised'. Game development is complicated and it's an exercise in compromise. The discussion on those terms becomes semantic at some point by its very nature.

Remember that the vision for NMS didn't necessarily include super-depth. Sean's description of a huge universe that you can explore, with unique planets and animals to discover, has totally been captured (even if they are often stylistically samey). And that's the best part of the experience - the part that it absolutely delivered on (it's clear if you've played it, which I don't think you have) - flying seamlessly from planet to planet and checking out weird places and creatures, while it all looks like a '70s sci-fi book cover.

They totally nailed that, and when playing the game you feel it, even if the game gets increasingly dull to play hour-on-hour (and, of course, if lots of details are missing which were promised by HG).



Yeah, it would have been sort of OK if they said on launch "XYZ has been cut from the game, but we're going to patch it in".

But... they didn't. They didn't say nothin'.

Doesn't the ship go into auto pilot during many of the transition scenarios? When auto pilot kicks in when jumping between star systems, isn't that effectively a loading screen? If this is the one thing they truly delivered on, it doesn't seem very seemless

 

[EmeraldSwords]

They confirmed rotation was removed (or toned down to an unnoticeable level) late in development. I wonder when the other stuff was cut.

Their integrity.

 

[cakely]

NMS is making people lose their minds, isn't it?

 

[Not Spaceghost]

Doesn't the ship go into auto pilot during many of the transition scenarios? When auto pilot kicks in when jumping between star systems, isn't that effectively a loading screen? If this is the one thing they truly delivered on, it doesn't seem very seemless

The ship only goes into auto pilot during warp which makes sense, and sort of during pulse engine flight. It also prevents you from getting too close to the ground which is a huge shame. And of course landing and docking are automatic which was a disappointment but makes sense if you consider that the people who want to play NMS probably aren't all simulation buffs.

Taking off and leaving atmosphere is all the player but the ship honestly sucks to control especially after playing something like ED.

NMS is making people lose their minds, isn't it?

Yeah kinda, it's a mix of the zealous fans trying to suppress any criticism by dropping meaningless one liners like "it's about the thrill of exploration" while ignoring all the counter points and the critics laser focusing on what the game isn't and being really aggressive about it being the worst thing. PS there is still tons to criticize in the current game.

 

[SomTervo]

I just dont understand. Either they never followed the game's development, never saw the dozens of interviews, never heard the now sourced comments made by Sean himself or are even aware of the current pictures, descriptions and videos on the game's own website that all misrepresent a large number of features and things that simply aren't part of the game.

How they can defend that is simply beyond comprehension. Yes, im sure there are logical explanations for just about everything but without any sort of press release or blog update etc. people are left to assume whatever they want. I cant imagine any of this was done with mal intent on HG's part.

The weirdest thing about it is that... The game just isn't that fun past a certain point. It's still nice to play and you still sometimes see cool stuff, but if these people are seriously fanatically playing the game... I'd be surprised if they're having that much fun to justify defending it vehemently.

PS can't fucking stand the term 'white knight'. Labels are never a good thing.

 

[danowat]

The weirdest thing about it is that... The game just isn't that fun past a certain point. It's still nice to play and you still sometimes see cool stuff, but if these people are seriously fanatically playing the game... I'd be surprised if they're having that much fun to justify defending it vehemently.

Have you cooled on the game?

 

[SomTervo]

Doesn't the ship go into auto pilot during many of the transition scenarios? When auto pilot kicks in when jumping between star systems, isn't that effectively a loading screen? If this is the one thing they truly delivered on, it doesn't seem very seemless

I said planet-to-planet was seamless, not system-to-system. I don't see a huge benefit to having between-system space rendered – IIRC even Elite: Dangerous renders almost nothing while warping and it's basically a 'loading screen' – but it WOULD be cool to be able to look at stars in the distance and press a button to warp to that star.

Auto pilot only kicks in when docking with stations (which is terrible) but there's a 'safety buffer' while on planet which is irritating. The rest of it isn't automated at all and you get a decent degree of movement freedom.

Have you cooled on the game?

I still think it's really good. But I can't deny it gets empty after a while and that HG have been shit on the PR front.

I'd say my rating has gone from a 17/20 for the first few hours to a 14/20. (Roughly an 8/10 to a 7/10. I still think it's an achievement and a great experience - just a deeply flawed game. I also think a lot of people undersell the variety in the game - there's loads of variety in my experience, as much as promised in trailers, but obviously there's no way to prove that beyond first hand experience. One day I'll get all my screenshots off my PS4, that might help.)

 

[TheCanisDirus]

The weirdest thing about it is that... The game just isn't that fun past a certain point. It's still nice to play and you still sometimes see cool stuff, but if these people are seriously fanatically playing the game... I'd be surprised if they're having that much fun to justify defending it vehemently.

PS can't fucking stand the term 'white knight'. Labels are never a good thing.

Yeah i know right?! I mean I honestly really enjoyed it up until I began to warp to a few new systems and immediately saw "behind the curtain" and it all instantly fell apart in front of me. And i thought Destiny was lacking and over promised lol. Hell, if Bungie and HGs combined the two games they'd produce something amazing actually!

As far as "white knight" goes i'm personally fine with it. Someone constantly defending something that's been proven over and over to be another thing while completely approaching all rational discourse with blinders on is to me a "white knight". But i totally get what you're saying with labels. Yes, labels in and of themselves aren't necessarily a good/constructive/positive thing.

 

[danowat]

I still think it's really good. But I can't deny it gets empty after a while and that HG have been shit on the PR front.

I'd say my rating has gone from a 17/20 for the first few hours to a 14/20. (Roughly an 8/10 to a 7/10. I still think it's an achievement and a great experience - just a deeply flawed game.)

I think that's fair enough, I think it's possible (or at least should be, a game doesn't have to define you) to enjoy it, and still appreciate it's short comings, I just got so, so bored with it after about 10hrs.

 

[DrROBschiz]

I said planet-to-planet was seamless, not system-to-system. I don't see a huge benefit to having between-system space rendered – IIRC even Elite: Dangerous renders almost nothing while warping and it's basically a 'loading screen' – but it WOULD be cool to be able to look at stars in the distance and press a button to warp to that star.

Auto pilot only kicks in when docking with stations (which is terrible) but there's a 'safety buffer' while on planet which is irritating. The rest of it isn't automated at all and you get a decent degree of movement freedom.



I still think it's really good. But I can't deny it gets empty after a while and that HG have been shit on the PR front.

I'd say my rating has gone from a 17/20 for the first few hours to a 14/20. (Roughly an 8/10 to a 7/10. I still think it's an achievement and a great experience - just a deeply flawed game.)

One would hope their silence indicates their race to iterate on the base game and get more features up and running

Its a shame they didnt start smaller and take the minecraft approach. They had a successful model to pick from and chose to go full blown Sony Marketing and Max retail

Im sure SONY execs had a some kind of role in this mess but its hard to say and they will likely never say...

 

[Jacksinthe]

NMS is making people lose their minds, isn't it?

More than just NMS.

People are tired of the bullshit. It's almost a given with AAA but now it's moving into smaller territories. I don't blame folks for getting mad, tbh. Some things might go overboard but the general feel is anger, at the moment. Don't let the memes and craziness drown out the issue.

 

[The Jackdog]

NMS is making people lose their minds, isn't it?

i think people are fed up being advertised one game and getting another

 

[MixedBeverage]

Bless you. I just did this and got the money back in my PSN wallet no problem. Shouts to Jonathan the PSN guy.

Feels good to have my money back off that charlaton.

I bought it physical so I could trade it in right away if it ended up being a disappointment. I had no idea that PSN would accept game refunds! Just curious what your argument was? I wonder if I could persuade Best Buy to take it back because it wasn't as advertised? Amazon is buying trade-ins for about $37, which isn't terrible.

 

[dragonfart28]

This is such a horrible affair that it makes one literally sad rather than angry.

 

[Brandwin]

Can I try to get my money back based on this? lol

 

[DarkConfidant]

Nah, the onus is always first on those making the promises. People expected what they were told.

Yeah, skepticism is so damn hard to muster.

I have no horse in this race. I was never particularly hyped for No Man's Sky, and I'm not planning to buy it in the near future.

But I still can't help feeling like the anger is a bit unwarranted. It's exceedingly clear that Hello Games had to rush to get this thing out the door. And this is after it was delayed multiple times at the last minute. They're a small dev that took on an exceedingly ambitious project. Of course they had to cut stuff out.

Yeah, this shows how awfully hooked on marketing gamers are, rather than just waiting for reviews.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

This should have never been a full retail game. I feel like that pressure came from Sony for Hello Games to be releasing a full $60 retail game, when this should have been released in a format like Ark or Day-Z, as an early release title with a nominal entry fee ($10, $20?) and then let the game expand from there.

IF this weren't a full retail game, it wouldn't have gotten the attention it got and then it wouldn't have caused the press to dive into features, which wouldn't have led Sean Murray and crew to say such misleading things about the game. I don't think that Murray and his team were answering questions out of malice or in an interest to mislead the public to increase sales, I think as a developer, when you're in the weeds of a project, you have this vision for what the project is... And then you come up with an MVP (minimum viable product) that fulfills the release requirements. As a developer, you play a game of willfully tricking yourself into thinking that the MVP is meeting the original vision, when it's really only meeting the minimum feature requirements.

I've done it with software I've built before, where a designer and UX person is providing the vision, and I come up with a product as a developer that fulfills those requirements as an MVP but probably misses the mark on the overall vision when everything is connected together. Though, as a small time software developer, it's easy to build on that MVP post-launch because we're not hyping the product to hell with those promises to the public... It's just with the internal teams.

I can see what brought them to this state, and I think a lot of that is driven by pressure to have an indie developer make this game as a full retail release, instead of what it actually is... an early release tech demo that is a platform to build on for the future. Feel bad for the developers because they put a lot of work into this, and it's going to be a stain on their resumes instead of a crowning achievement. I also feel bad for fans, fanboys, and consumers who put so much energy into following this title for 2 or 3 years, and this is the result... It's a level of disappointment and commitment that is nearly unique to the videogame industry. I was skeptical of the game from the start, thinking it looked like a tech demo, and that I didn't get what the gameplay motivation was, so I didn't feel like I had been waiting for the game when it dropped, and I don't feel let down by the developers.

Well stated.

A learning experience for many.

 

[SomTervo]

One would hope their silence indicates their race to iterate on the base game and get more features up and running

Its a shame they didnt start smaller and take the minecraft approach. They had a successful model to pick from and chose to go full blown Sony Marketing and Max retail

Im sure SONY execs had a some kind of role in this mess but its hard to say and they will likely never say...

Agreed. Perhaps the early access cycle was so alien and unfamiliar to Hello that they decided to steer away from it and stick to a traditional launch cycle... Which clearly hasn't worked for them critically or culturally.

 

[Dynamite Shikoku]

i think people are fed up being advertised one game and getting another

Yeah, this is where I'm at. Video game marketing is toxic, and this game was the last straw. It's really unfortunate it seems to have sold so well, but I hope all the refunds are making them think.

 

[TheCanisDirus]

Can I try to get my money back based on this? lol

Others have and i will as well. There is an argument... It (for me at least) crashes ALL the time. I've lost loads of progress. It also never connects to their servers or stays connected even though every other game or service seems to on my PS4. Id say the product doesn't function as it should and advertising/marketing is misleading at the very best. Good luck on your refund!

 

[Irminsul]

Absolutely, which is why it's dissapointing to see that they are still using screenshots like this to sell the game on their website:

Looking at this screenshot I wonder why even fucking sand didn't make it into the game. I mean, it can't be that hard to have a "gentle slopes near water = chance of sand beaches" rule, can it? It's such an easy way to make the environment much more interesting and nice to look at.

Or HG realised they just don't like sand because it's coarse and rough and gets everywhere.

 

[SuperEpicMan]

I finished the Atlas Path a couple of days ago and lost all motivation to play any more of the game while it is in its current state. I also looked up what happens at the centre and feel kinda glad I did, as it doesn't seem to be much in the way of a reward.

Don't get me wrong, I think the game does plenty which should be applauded, such as the scope. But the gameplay for me just turns into a grind to nowhere. That said, I will probably keep my copy to see how the game evolves over time.

 

[SomTervo]

I bought it physical so I could trade it in right away if it ended up being a disappointment. I had no idea that PSN would accept game refunds! Just curious what your argument was? I wonder if I could persuade Best Buy to take it back because it wasn't as advertised? Amazon is buying trade-ins for about $37, which isn't terrible.

Could be a UK GAFfer in which case you have two-weeks return right claiming a digital product was 'broken or not as stated'. I think.

Looking at this screenshot I wonder why even fucking sand didn't make it into the game. I mean, it can't be that hard to have a "gentle slopes near water = chance of sand beaches" rule, can it? It's such an easy way to make the environment much more interesting and nice to look at.

Or HG realised they just don't like sand because it's coarse and rough and gets everywhere.

I've experienced sandy/desert planets in NNS? I have pics of one on my hard drive. I was getting a serious Red Dead vibe from the place.

 

[DrROBschiz]

Agreed. Perhaps the early access cycle was so alien and unfamiliar to Hello that they decided to steer away from it and stick to a traditional launch cycle... Which clearly hasn't worked for them critically or culturally.

Maybe they will brush it off and just move forward

Thats what Bungie did with Destiny. Take the heat and iterate over time

But Bungie had a Large ass team that could recover from the huge setbacks of their massive project.

Hello Games just has procedural generation tools and a small staff. Sounds like the game sold well so maybe they will reinvest

 

[Rains]

Nice list. NMS deserves this and I'm not gonna defend it. The fans deserve those features.

I didnt follow the game just looked at the basics and i am enjoying it however i feel for people who followed the game from the start and where told these thing would be ingame the man actively lied and i hate that is he going to update the game with features or just riding the gravy train

 

[TheCongressman1]

One would hope their silence indicates their race to iterate on the base game and get more features up and running

Its a shame they didnt start smaller and take the minecraft approach. They had a successful model to pick from and chose to go full blown Sony Marketing and Max retail

Im sure SONY execs had a some kind of role in this mess but its hard to say and they will likely never say...

True. But they just rode the 'quintillions of planets' aspect all the way into the ground.

I think less people would have been bummed if they had come out and said, we've decided to focus on a slightly smaller scope to make more interesting experiences.

But then again, from the way I understand it, there shouldn't really be a reason that having the universe size it is affect how much detail they can include. Because it's procedural, it wouldn't matter if they had one world, or quintillions, right? Things like having more complicated ecosystems and terrain generation shouldn't be governed by size of the universe. It all comes down to whether or not they can make the assets for it, and make it generate and behave properly. Am I thinking correctly, or is there a factor I'm not thinking about?

 

[Jeffrey]

Implying a fan did it under what evidence?

well they deleted that thread, then the account. It's gotta be someone with interest to NMS?

 

[Fakeknowledge]

I bought it physical so I could trade it in right away if it ended up being a disappointment. I had no idea that PSN would accept game refunds! Just curious what your argument was? I wonder if I could persuade Best Buy to take it back because it wasn't as advertised? Amazon is buying trade-ins for about $37, which isn't terrible.

Well, you wouldn't be lying.

I just said i would like my money put back in my account as it wasn't what was advertised and kept crashing. He offered some troubleshooting tips but i just said i'd rather a refund. He was very courteous and helpful, i don't know if you'd have the same experience at a Best Buy lol.

Can't hurt to try though, and if they refuse then $37 isn't bad at all as you say. I'd take it before it got any lower.

 

[spacemonkeynation]

Absolutely, which is why it's dissapointing to see that they are still using screenshots like this to sell the game on their website:

What aspect of that shot is misleading? I guess I'm not understanding some complaints. I've found some really beautiful planets and animals:

 

[Fakeknowledge]

Could be a UK GAFfer in which case you have two-weeks return right claiming a digital product was 'broken or not as stated'. I think.

I am UK yeah, but i got NMS off the US store so got my refund on there.

 

[Seiniyta]

True. But they just rode the 'quintillions of planets' aspect all the way into the ground.

I think less people would have been bummed if they had come out and said, we've decided to focus on a slightly smaller scope to make more interesting experiences.

But then again, from the way I understand it, there shouldn't really be a reason that having the universe size it is affect how much detail they can include. Because it's procedural, it wouldn't matter if they had one world, or quintillions, right? Things like having more complicated ecosystems and terrain generation shouldn't be governed by size of the universe. It all comes down to whether or not they can make the assets for it, and make it generate and behave properly. Am I thinking correctly, or is there a factor I'm not thinking about?

I think you're about right. on the planet itself except the day night (governed by the sun) and the various other planets orbiting the solar system they only have to make things working on the planet at that point. At planet level the other planets and sun are so simplified LOD wise it shouldn't effect the performance that much if the orbits are a fixed pattern (and not actually 'simulated') But, you have to understand, NMS is made using voxels for the most parts (the planets themselves are). Which are great for procedural stuff but is a lot more taxing on the system then regular polygons. That's why the performance isn't much higher then if it was polygonal based.
Now, on PC and with good optimization I'm sure they can push the visuals further (modders in particular). But on PS4 It's already really impressive what they managed to do tech wise.



For me, personally the biggest frustration with all of this is just the deafening silence from the developers over this.I'm enjoying the game for what it is and although it's not great it's not already in the game I do hope many of the missing features will be put back in.
They could make a beta build for players to give feedback on (on PC).

 

[Chû Totoro]

Can I try to get my money back based on this? lol

Class action.

Edit: yeah I'm exaggerating on purpose. A refund should be ok and even if not accepted resell it and go to something else. But yeah I'm feeling a Class action could be made in the US regarding all these "lies".
Personally I'll play the game a little more and resell it (won't ask for refund since I enjoyed a few elements).

 

[SomTervo]

I am UK yeah, but i got NMS off the US store so got my refund on there.

Interesting. "It's crashing every few minutes" must be a hard line to argue with, even for Sony and their heinous T&Cs.

 

[Widge]

Or HG realised they just don't like sand because it's coarse and rough and gets everywhere.

*falls off giant pighorse*

 

[Irminsul]

I've experienced sandy/desert planets in NNS? I have pics of one on my hard drive. I was getting a serious Red Dead vibe from the place.

Rocky desert or sandy desert? I also don't think I've ever seen screenshots with beaches in it, but it's been a while since I looked into the photo thread...

 

[sploatee]

This was the last straw for me. I've just sold mine back to CeX. I thought it was a solid enough game and I love the ambition, but it's just not finished. There's a skeleton of a game there. And it's absolutely not worth 60 pounds.

I'm hoping to go back to it maybe in a year when it's more the game we were told it was going to be.

 

[TheCanisDirus]

What aspect of that shot is misleading? I guess I'm not understanding some complaints. I've found some really beautiful planets and animals:

The draw distance, detail, models/assets, etc. Take a look at all the "screenshots" and "gameplay videos" on the NMS website and you'll see what we're referring to. None of them are actually from the retail game and most show, highlight, refer to things/content/depictions that arent in the game.

 

[Psykoboy2]

Class action.

Edit: yeah I'm exaggerating on purpose. A refund should be ok and even if not accepted resell it and go to something else. But yeah I'm feeling a Class action could be made in the US regarding all these "lies".
Personally I'll play the game a little more and resell it (won't ask for refund since I enjoyed a few elements).

It's not unheard of. I think someone sued Sega or Gearbox for that Aliens game a while back and I believe they won.

 

[Pepboy]

NMS is making people lose their minds, isn't it?

Not really. This is stuff class action lawsuits are built on. I expect owners will get 10-20 dollars or so back in a few years and make one law firm very happy.

Edit: correction, seems class actions in video games are not too successful historically...

http://videogamerlaw.com/tag/false-advertising/

 

[Darryl M R]

I truly feel like once you warped to your second system you warped to them all.

 

[Fuchsdh]

Yup. These white knights have the shiniest fucking armor i've ever seen.

I just dont understand. Either they never followed the game's development, never saw the dozens of interviews, never heard the now sourced comments made by Sean himself or are even aware of the current pictures, descriptions and videos on the game's own website that all misrepresent a large number of features and things that simply aren't part of the game.

How they can defend that is simply beyond comprehension. Yes, im sure there are logical explanations for just about everything but without any sort of press release or blog update etc. people are left to assume whatever they want. I cant imagine any of this was done with mal intent on HG's part.

It's a console exclusive that got excessively hyped, that alone is probably enough reason for some people to lash out instead of dealing with the cognitive dissonance.

 

[TheCanisDirus]

I truly feel like once you warped to your second system you warped to them all.

Exactly this. Or maaaaaaybe your 3rd.

 

[UCBooties]

What aspect of that shot is misleading? I guess I'm not understanding some complaints. I've found some really beautiful planets and animals:

Better textures, more diverse terrain (look at the texture on the rock in the foreground versus the sand around the water), more diverse flora, lack of that hazy filter that overlays everything in the game. Not to mention it includes a ruin of a style that is not in the game, which points to the problem that the planets they showed prior to launch were much more architecurally varied than what is actually in the game.

Vis a vis your screenshots: As I said in another thread referencing the screenshot I showed above, the game looks good, but it doesn't look as good as what they were showing in earlier builds and trailers. I don't think it's unreasonable to be dissapointed about that, and I don't think it's appropriate to use screenshots from an earlier build to market the game post release.

 

[Baleoce]

More than just NMS.

People are tired of the bullshit. It's almost a given with AAA but now it's moving into smaller territories. I don't blame folks for getting mad, tbh. Some things might go overboard but the general feel is anger, at the moment. Don't let the memes and craziness drown out the issue.

i think people are fed up being advertised one game and getting another

Yup, this is what it all comes down to. I'm glad that this issue has become so visible. People are really tired of this.

 

[Glass Shark]

I truly feel like once you warped to your second system you warped to them all.

I've seen a handful of screenshots on reddit and GAF with cool-looking planets. But they're just screenshots, and the game includes no system for actually letting me go to that planet or one similar to it. With how rare these are, it's likely you'll never run into them in game. Is that really the experience they wanted people to have? Rolling the dice hoping you get a cool planet?

Someone else said it best: what this game lacks is extremes and "weirdness." Everything is just pretty bland right now.

 

[Brandwin]

Class action.

Edit: yeah I'm exaggerating on purpose. A refund should be ok and even if not accepted resell it and go to something else. But yeah I'm feeling a Class action could be made in the US regarding all these "lies".
Personally I'll play the game a little more and resell it (won't ask for refund since I enjoyed a few elements).

Went digital. DOH! I am only half serious about a refund though, unless I could get one...

 

[Gorechylde]

I truly feel like once you warped to your second system you warped to them all.

That's what I used to think. Then I saw them all...

 

[Muzicfreq]

Looking at this screenshot I wonder why even fucking sand didn't make it into the game. I mean, it can't be that hard to have a "gentle slopes near water = chance of sand beaches" rule, can it? It's such an easy way to make the environment much more interesting and nice to look at.

Or HG realised they just don't like sand because it's coarse and rough and gets everywhere.

sand is in the game...

 

[Dangansona]

sand is in the game...

Seems like part of the problem is with so many planets it is hard to be 100% sure of some of these "lies" as opposed to normal games.

I'm not dismissing everything on that list for the record. I'm not a "white knight." I wouldn't even have bought the game if it wasn't for the fact my friends wouldn't stop talking about it and I have only played 5 hours so far. I just think that the backlash is a bit over the top.