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[THE:MILKMAN]

So you are not completely unreasonable. Slim was written off as garbage rumours just the like possibility of Neo being more powerul is right now. We really don't know what is going to happen.

How have I been unreasonable!? I genuinely can't understand how it is unreasonable to assume that Neo will be 4.2TF/2.1GHz Jaguar when the docs state them outright and that they are final as well as KennyLinder confirming the latest June/July dev kit does have those specs.

What I and devs have said is tweaks (think Xbox One) could very well be made but Zen and/or 5.5TF is very unlikely.

Neo docs seem to date from March (GDC) and the latest dev kit went out in June/July worldwide. The specs didn't change in that 3-4 months time span yet some expect the specs to change substantially in the 3 months between latest dev kit and Neo reveal?

Just for fun you can write a embarrassing tag for me that I'll have for a year if Neo turns out more powerful. Let's say CPU >2.3GHz and GPU >4.5TF?

I wouldn't even mind being completely wrong as I'll have more powerful Neo to look forward to!

 

[Chris_Rivera]

When was the last time a solid hardware leak ended up being different? A bump in clock is the only reasonable theory.

 

[Inuhanyou]

From what I've read, Puma is not HSA compliant.

Jaguar or a modified custom CPU (zen-lite) are more likely the options.

Zen has no semicustom designs this year, or even desktop variants, AMD said so.

 

[The Abominable Snowman]

You're talking to someone else? Nobody said they would scale down to vanilla PS4.

And why would they recreate anything? They just get to use higher resolution versions of already existing assets, add more particles or shaders, higher density of transparencies or foliage, longer draw distances, and use a higher rendering resolution.

You know, like a PC game with different settings. They don't re-create the whole game for Low/Medium/High presets.

Try reading a bit more about what the NEO is doing, then post.

I dont think you understand what I'm saying in your haste, so nevermind.

 

[Elios83]

How have I been unreasonable!? I genuinely can't understand how it is unreasonable to assume that Neo will be 4.2TF/2.1GHz Jaguar when the docs state them outright and that they are final as well as KennyLinder confirming the latest June/July dev kit does have those specs.

What I and devs have said is tweaks (think Xbox One) could very well be made but Zen and/or 5.5TF is very unlikely.

Neo docs seem to date from March (GDC) and the latest dev kit went out in June/July worldwide. The specs didn't change in that 3-4 months time span yet some expect the specs to change substantially in the 3 months between latest dev kit and Neo reveal?

Just for fun you can write a embarrassing tag for me that I'll have for a year if Neo turns out more powerful. Let's say CPU >2.3GHz and GPU >4.5TF?

I wouldn't even mind being completely wrong as I'll have more powerful Neo to look forward to!

I also think that it's better to expect the leaked specs in the final product, a change in design is impossible but just like Microsoft did with the Xbox One they might analyze the thermal profile of the designed final retail product and see if there is room to tweak the clock frequencies up a bit without compromising the stability and reliability.
In this sense if the console is big and heavy like suggested there are higher chances to do this.
I still wouldn't expect a jump to 5+Teraflops, maybe something like 4.5 Teraflops.

 

[StrongBlackVine]

Zen has no semicustom designs this year, or even desktop variants, AMD said so.

We'll see soon enough.

 

[Venom Fox]

The misinformation in this thread is embarrassing...

 

[Inuhanyou]

The misinformation in this thread is embarrassing...

Mind some elaboration?

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

I'm all eyes if you have some facts, Venom!

 

[Tarkus]

The misinformation in this thread is embarrassing...

How could you do this to us?

 

[Crimson_Gold]

Who's venom? I must know what's going on.

 

[Inuhanyou]

Who's venom? I must know what's going on.

He's a poster like us, he's nobody 'in the know' if that's what your asking.

Slim made total sense (at least to me) since when Andrew House said that Neo was just a complement to the current PS4. If they were serious about keeping both models on the market they needed to have a long term plan to cut the price on the basic model as well. That was only possible through a redesign to cut manufacturing costs.
Then Microsoft announced their Slim with a 16nm APU and the deal was sealed, if AMD was shrinking the 2013 Xbox APU to 16nm it was obvious that Sony had the chance to do the same with theirs given how they are both tied to what AMD can provide.

But yeah there was a lot of resistance against the idea of a Slim PS4 and many were wrong.
About Neo I wouldn't rule out higher final clock frequencies but a new design with different cores....no...this is a PS4 and they need to keep full PS4 compatibility easy to achieve.

I absolutely hated the idea of the slim PS4, largely because it came down to not making sense in my head about why Sony would cut NEO's legs off by advertising most of the key features they were pushing with NEO, to the point of having the 4K moniker.

I figured that if there was a slim model, they would include UHD BR and HDMI 2.0 like XB1 S, which in my mind was very redundant and would hurt NEO's differentiation by reducing it to a mere power increase over the Slim, which would be much harder to sell and justify side by side.

But once it was revealed with the intent that they were not adding any of the NEO features to it, and it was a traditional slimline model, i became a lot more accepting and could see where they were going.

 

[onQ123]

My real hope for Neo is that it has the X1 chip or something close to it for post processing & noise reduction so that the GPU can be used as a MIMD processor & more games like Dreams & other games using compute rendering for raytracing , path tracing , volume rendering & so on would become more common.

 

[pager99]

He's a poster like us, he's nobody 'in the know' if that's what your asking.



I absolutely hated the idea of the slim PS4, largely because it came down to not making sense in my head about why Sony would cut NEO's legs off by advertising most of the key features they were pushing with NEO, to the point of having the 4K moniker.

I figured that if there was a slim model, they would include UHD BR and HDMI 2.0 like XB1 S, which in my mind was very redundant and would hurt NEO's differentiation by reducing it to a mere power increase over the Slim, which would be much harder to sell and justify side by side.

But once it was revealed with the intent that they were not adding any of the NEO features to it, and it was a traditional slimline model, i became a lot more accepting and could see where they were going.

Yeah I think its wise to differentiate the slim from neo ,make one as cheap as possible and then high end neo

 

[gundamkyoukai]

Well, nobody expected a in the first place surfer, or rather, there were no real legitimate sources for that information. I based my predictions on there being no slim on what i thought at the time, if i'm wrong, i'm not above admitting it you know?

Thinking there was going to be no slim was crazy in the first place lol.

 

[Darklor01]

Zen has no semicustom designs this year, or even desktop variants, AMD said so.

I don't know if that is completely accurate. It seems some semi custom samples are out there and if I read right they may have some quad core zen out by October 2016. If that is true, which I don't know if that is right, Sony may have some custom chip in their Neo. What you say is backed up for sure, but I find more and more info which could suggest there are possibilities for something other than Jaguar in Sony's box.


Edit: At this point, I'll settle myself on the idea that it is Jaguar in there until it is proven otherwise, but won't rule out the possibility of a custom CPU in there.

 

[sense]

I was expecting slim/new sku for OG ps4 and neo both for this year. I did expect the slim to have 4K though so a bit surprised by that.

 

[duhmetree]

Zen has no semicustom designs this year, or even desktop variants, AMD said so.

Where did they say there are no custom chips this year?

 

[DangerMouse]

I don't know if that is completely accurate. It seems some semi custom samples are out there and if I read right they may have some quad core zen out by October 2016. If that is true, which I don't know if that is right, Sony may have some custom chip in their Neo. What you say is backed up for sure, but I find more and more info which could suggest there are possibilities for something other than Jaguar in Sony's box.

Yeah, considering how Sony heavily customized the GPU in their PS4 APU I don't think it's impossible that they could collaborate directly with AMD for a semi-custom "weaker" version of the Zen (or something like that) knowing that they'd be launching 6-months to a year before the real Zen is ready. Not saying it's likely but it seems theoretically possible.

 

[AmyS]

I'll gladly buy a Neo with the specs originally reported, at $399.

I'm just going to assume it gets released October / November.

 

[Inuhanyou]

My real hope for Neo is that it has the X1 chip or something close to it for post processing & noise reduction so that the GPU can be used as a MIMD processor & more games like Dreams & other games using compute rendering for raytracing , path tracing , volume rendering & so on would become more common.

OnQ, i was joking before, but seriously...you don't really want to be considered Jeff 2.0, do you?

I mean, compute rendering for raytracing!? In the Neo? Come on man.

Where did they say there are no custom chips this year?

In their conference call. Lisa Su also said that the APU variants would not be ready till mid 2017, and 'semi custom designs' (IE consoles) would not be until 2018.

 

[duhmetree]

My real hope for Neo is that it has the X1 chip or something close to it for post processing & noise reduction so that the GPU can be used as a MIMD processor & more games like Dreams & other games using compute rendering for raytracing , path tracing , volume rendering & so on would become more common.

4K HDR Processor X1™ Extreme
Our newly developed 4K HDR Processor X1™ Extreme has 40% more real-time image processing than our renowned 4K Processor X1™. It takes everything you watch and upscales it to near 4K HDR quality.

yes please.

 

[anothertech]

How probable/improbable would oc'd puma cores be in the Neo? They would be a step up no?

 

[duhmetree]

In their conference call. Lisa Su also said that the APU variants would not be ready till mid 2017, and 'semi custom designs' (IE consoles) would not be until 2018.

I just read their latest earnings call. I did not see anything of this nature mentioned.

What conference call are you referring to?

 

[Inuhanyou]

How probable/improbable would oc'd puma cores be in the Neo? They would be a step up no?

in terms of actual power? No...but their clocking potential is higher, so they can scale further along than Jaguar, which peters out after 2.4GHZ, both in terms of containing heat and actually scaling linearly with computational increases

 

[Celcius]

I'm not liking the "double decker" / "sandwhich" design, I really hope Sony doesn't go with that

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Well Osiris did say a new CPU was being considered

And doesn't the patent address compatibility issues with a different architecture?

 

[Inuhanyou]

I just read their latest earnings call. I did not see anything of this nature mentioned.

What conference call are you referring to?

I don't have the source on me, but here is an article of the announcement after she made the delay to next year official

http://www.techspot.com/news/66021-amd-zen-cpus-delayed-2017-more-details-revealed.html

Well Osiris did say a new CPU was being considered

And doesn't the patent address compatibility issues with a different architecture?

Not fully, its mostly regarding emulating results of a different architecture via specific clocking methods

 

[BRSxIgnition]

So a full day after Nerdleaks teases something, we get nothing.

Shame.

 

[bitbydeath]

I'll gladly buy a Neo with the specs originally reported, at $399.

I'm just going to assume it gets released October / November.

Same, I was always planning to buy a second PS4 when the slim released, getting a supercharged version is even better.

 

[DieH@rd]

So a full day after Nerdleaks teases something, we get nothing.

Shame.

 

[FalsettoVibe]

Hey guys we're on The Know.

Pretty good.

 

[xenorevlis]

Pretty good.

Haha, butchered my username even more than usual! ;P

 

[iboshow]

I think Nerd Leaks just wanted to stay relevant

 

[ZoyosJD]

yes please.

You should look at the price of the TVs they put those in before you get your hopes up.

Besides that, there is the impracticality of having two devices on market which connect to each other having the same chip and purpose even though they are entirely different types of devices.

 

[Liabe Brave]

That was just Ubi's method and what we're likely to see if Siege gets a patch. DF theorized that Sony's method is possibly based on a technique Valve talked about in a presentation that doesn't involve MSAA. To hit 4k that method would need a base res around 1500p.

In addition to checkerboard rendering, the leaked Sony docs refer to a "geometry rendering" method to increase resolution. Evidently they'd discussed that earlier, when first revealing Neo to developers. Is that the Valve-based solution?

 

[xenorevlis]

Made a video about my mockups, including images from this very thread...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pd95hgjwPI

 

[pottuvoi]

That was just Ubi's method and what we're likely to see if Siege gets a patch. DF theorized that Sony's method is possibly based on a technique Valve talked about in a presentation that doesn't involve MSAA. To hit 4k that method would need a base res around 1500p.

Which Valve presentation are you talking about?
Might have missed it.


Pure temporal resolving to higher resolution has been presented couple times already and might become quite common.
The 4x MSAA trick with ordered sample pattern could bee OK for some. (Perfect small triangles and edges, less shading on larger triangles.)

 

[icespide]

7 more days of waiting

 

[Inuhanyou]

 

[TetraGenesis]

Why has this thread slowed down? Come on people, keep the arguments and speculation cominnnnng. I live for it.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

I also think that it's better to expect the leaked specs in the final product, a change in design is impossible but just like Microsoft did with the Xbox One they might analyze the thermal profile of the designed final retail product and see if there is room to tweak the clock frequencies up a bit without compromising the stability and reliability.
In this sense if the console is big and heavy like suggested there are higher chances to do this.
I still wouldn't expect a jump to 5+Teraflops, maybe something like 4.5 Teraflops.

Yeah i don't expect a jump .
If it happens i happy but right now i going with leak specs in mind .

 

[wapplew]

Leaks spec can boost current PS4 games into 60fps, I want to believe.

 

[Bitch Pudding]

Good mourning everyone. Still no leaks, hm?

 

[iboshow]

Leaks spec can boost current PS4 games into 60fps, I want to believe.

Not all games will run at 60fps

 

[LookAtMeGo]

I wonder if they are going to bring up how they no longer offer 1 month PS+ subscriptions.

 

[-ImaginaryInsider]

It's going to be interesting to see the reaction to the final specs.

In the real world, no one will likely care, but on GAF and various other boards, given all the speculation, I wonder if an unchanged 4.2 teraflop Neo will cause a meltdown.

I'm #teammodestbump, but I'd be happy with the leaked specs, but I'm also getting the sense that more than a few people will be gutted by anything less than 5 teraflops and a non-Jaguar CPU.

 

[pottuvoi]

Not all games will run at 60fps

Agreed, many games seem to be quite CPU limited.

 

[Theman2k]

I just can't understand sony's stance at this point.
I mean, Why 4k upsaceld gaming is so importent to them? Mendate games in 1080p/60fps sounds like a way better selling point to me. I also got the impression that a lot of people here were loud about 60fps being importent for them.

 

[Raiden1018]

Leaks spec can boost current PS4 games into 60fps, I want to believe.

Link?

Alsp, good morning Bitch Pudding :}
Maybe today we'll get something