Recruit killed himself amid culture of abuse, Marine Corps says
- Thread starter Dalek
- Start date
- Status
Princess Carl
Member
Infuriating
andthebeatgoeson
Junior Member
Damn shame.
triplestation
Member
smh
Killer Queen
Banned
People are so goddamn shitty. Holy fuck dude rest on peace
Isn't Parris Island famous for its culture of abuse?
Not to mention there's literally half a movie about basic training being so abusive that it leads people to kill themselves and it was made about half a century ago. edit: I didn't realize that this segment was set ON PARRIS ISLAND but I probably should have.
Terrible that this happened to this guy. I'd like to be hopeful that it sparks a change, but again, I feel like everybody already knew that this happened and it clearly didn't motivate anybody to fix it.
Not to mention there's literally half a movie about basic training being so abusive that it leads people to kill themselves and it was made about half a century ago. edit: I didn't realize that this segment was set ON PARRIS ISLAND but I probably should have.
Terrible that this happened to this guy. I'd like to be hopeful that it sparks a change, but again, I feel like everybody already knew that this happened and it clearly didn't motivate anybody to fix it.
Snowybreak
Member
Horrendous.
Reverend Funk
Comfy Penetration
Seeing that stuff in fmj was really disturbing.
Pamplemousse
Member
May he rest in peace.
NYCmetsfan
Banned
Yeah I was gonna point this out
Mattlikewhoa
Member
RIP, and fuck all those people who were involved in this. The should punish them ALL!
PeakPointMatrix
Member
Jailtime for all of them.
Irishmantis
Member
And some people think bullying stops after School
Sigh poor guy
Sigh poor guy
karmaforgotme
Member
Marines enlisted only have 2 boot camps. Parris Island for the East Coast, and San Diego for the West Coast. So most Marines go through Parris Island, and yes FMJ was filmed there.
In the past yes. There is a famous story about a DI causing 6 recruits to drown in the 1950's (google Ribbon Creek for more information). That said since the late 80's laying a hand on a recruit will get a DI kicked out. The problem is recruits are put into a situation where they don't feel safe to report their DI despite the fact they tell you to. Hard to explain.
lightskintwin
Banned
It's why I didn't join the Military, despite my family's long history in the military on my father's side. Plus Lawrence Fishburne telling me that a "Black man ain't got no place in the Army" in Boyz N the Hood probably played a part in it too. LOL
It's also why I didn't join a Black fraternity at my college, because the hazing was brutal, and I have too much self respect to subject myself to an organization that I thought was about something more. I don't know how White fraternities are.
It's also why I didn't join a Black fraternity at my college, because the hazing was brutal, and I have too much self respect to subject myself to an organization that I thought was about something more. I don't know how White fraternities are.
lightskintwin
Banned
I could definitely understand this attitude. The military isn't child's play.
Nowadays it literally is , sadly.
karmaforgotme
Member
I remember reading this guy's story earlier this year, and he was in 3rd Battalion (there are 3 male training battalions at PI). I also graduated from 3rd Battalion back in the 90's. I remember when we first got to PI we was asked by a civilian in charged of handing out uniforms what training battalion we was in. After we told her that we was with 3rd she started to laugh. She told us that they call 3rd Battalion the 'Beat Battalion', and that we was screwed. The reason for this was location. 3rd was located away from the brass and most of the civilian activity on the base. Of course I took it as she was messing with us, but about a week later after seeing the first recruit hit I knew she wasn't.
I still have scar on my wrist from being clotheslined by a DI. I had a DI put a sword to my throat, a wall locker put on top of me with a DI on top of that while I tried to do push-ups, and I was punched (mainly in chest) several times. Realize during our 13 weeks at PI we were asked several times by our company and battalion officers if any recruit wanted to report any violence. But for several reasons (some are hard to explain and others are common sense of why we didn't) we never reported it.
To be honest if I had to do it over again I would rather do it that way again. There are several advantages to it. We was set to the 'sand pit' less than any other platoon which I found a 100 times worse than taking a punch. I just think they should just be upfront about it. Hey you are going to be hit, but deal with it if you want to be a Marine. If not that is cool.
Also a guy died when I was boot camp by heart attack during swim qualification. Several of the instructors that worked at the pool ended up being kicked out. The Marine Corps has a big knee jerk reaction to these events (see the 20 people being fired for this).
I still have scar on my wrist from being clotheslined by a DI. I had a DI put a sword to my throat, a wall locker put on top of me with a DI on top of that while I tried to do push-ups, and I was punched (mainly in chest) several times. Realize during our 13 weeks at PI we were asked several times by our company and battalion officers if any recruit wanted to report any violence. But for several reasons (some are hard to explain and others are common sense of why we didn't) we never reported it.
To be honest if I had to do it over again I would rather do it that way again. There are several advantages to it. We was set to the 'sand pit' less than any other platoon which I found a 100 times worse than taking a punch. I just think they should just be upfront about it. Hey you are going to be hit, but deal with it if you want to be a Marine. If not that is cool.
Also a guy died when I was boot camp by heart attack during swim qualification. Several of the instructors that worked at the pool ended up being kicked out. The Marine Corps has a big knee jerk reaction to these events (see the 20 people being fired for this).
karmaforgotme
Member
Devil Dog you know Marines are going to get scapegoated across the board. It is the way of the military. They will throw anyone to the side to save face.
Not saying that the DI didn't deserve it, just that I am sure some of those 20 had zero effect on what happen.
I would be willing to bet they did an investigation and a DI said "mean things" and that was enough to crucify him and the CoC.
Banana Aeon
Member
...Well shit.
I already knew the Marines I dealt with always felt a bit off, but if you have former ones making excuses on them when one recruit kills himself, that's disgusting. I'm really glad I didn't even bother to make an attempt at joining the Marines.
I already knew the Marines I dealt with always felt a bit off, but if you have former ones making excuses on them when one recruit kills himself, that's disgusting. I'm really glad I didn't even bother to make an attempt at joining the Marines.
I mean, do you think maybe there might have been a way to get this guy out of the Marines if he wouldn't be a good fit, without causing him to commit suicide?
Wouldn't that be a good idea?
I mean, this guy killed himself trying to deal with it. Is that just the cost of doing business?
lightskintwin
Banned
Nobody's making excuses for a recruit's death, but the cold reality is just because you have a clean record and can pass a physical, doesn't mean you're cut out to serve in the Military.
karmaforgotme
Member
Well shit where did I make an excuse for his death? Please quote me. All I shared was my experience.
Doesn't mean the military should drive you to suicide either and then do nothing to help you or worse exacerbate it. What the fuck is it with the machismo over this kind of thing?
Is there maybe a way to have people leave the military who are unsuited to it without pressuring them to the point that they kill themselves?
This thread is doing a lot more to make me doubtful of the Marine Corps than the story itself did.
lightskintwin
Banned
If suicide was a a epidemic within the military, then you may have a point.
GutsOfThor
Member
I've talked to people in the Marines and they said it is no fucking joke. You get physically, emotionally and mentally destroyed and if you can't handle it then get the fuck out and stay out.
Yeah that would be an awesome idea. The problem is there is a severe disconnect between the people accepted to go to MCRD and the people tasked to trained them. People literally show up to MCRD and try to kill themselves days later because they are mentally unstable in the first place but recruiters have to make mission and send them anyway. Its fucking terrible. Terrible for the Marines tasked with training these individuals and...if they squeak through boot camp...terrible for their units.
Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
I have some bad news for you.
karmaforgotme
Member
That is my biggest issue. DIs are taught to look for signs and recruits are tested, but it seems like something was missed here or the DI was taking short cuts with this recruits. DIs are graded on graduation ratios (how many recruits finish boot camp), so they sometimes keep recruits around who should have been cut.
No it is not. I am just saying the Marines should just be upfront about what happens at boot camp instead of pretending it doesn't happen. That way this recruit might of understood what he was getting himself into.
To be clear was boot camp as bad as Full Metal Jacket to me? It was worse.
The emotional and mental parts are a lot harder than the physical.
This actually helps me understand your perspective a lot more, thanks. So from your view, lots of people who get sent to boot camp are actually mentally unfit to serve, but there's no effective filtering process for removing them, and it leads to events like this happening -- and as somebody who potentially might have served with some of these unfit people, you see this as a problem that could endanger you and the people in your unit by giving you unfit soldiers to serve with. This seems plausible, but very concerning. I thought that a psychological profiling was part of the acceptance process.
lightskintwin
Banned
I mean we're talking about becoming a soldier of war. I don't know if it's possible to toughen up and preparing people for the terrors and hardships of war, while weeding out the weak links, without the occasional suicide as a side effect.
karmaforgotme
Member
Suicides has been a problem at MCRD for awhile. It is the reason we don't have doors on bathroom stalls and there is a fire-watch in the bathroom all night. Also you are almost never ever left alone.
There's a good 538 piece on this that actually attributes it to demographics due to the Military simply being overrepresented with the most high-risk populations. http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/suicide-in-the-military/
Its very rudimentary. Have no history of extended psychological treatment? Good to go. The problem comes with the recruiters having to meet quotas and the very subjective nature in which they are medically accepted for training. Sometimes it literally hinges around whether the doctor was having a good day or not at the processing center.
karmaforgotme
Member
That is such an interesting piece. Thanks for the link.
Why does it have to an epidemic? Again what is with the false braggado over this. "Oh he wasn't tough enough so he's dead. Oh well! Marines, Oh Ra!" There is being tough and strong and then there is being callous and cold fucking hearted and it comes off like you're excusing everything that happened because its tough being a marine.
- Status