Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
This is my first time hearing of armikrog
Games ruined by creator's politics
- Thread starter FlyinJ
- Start date
OP you should check out a documentary called Wagner & Me. Its about Stephen Fry trying to reconcile his love of Wagner's music (Ride of the Valkyries, etc) with the composer's anti-semetic and racist views. Really facinating, and seems milar to your situation (I assume the DQ soundtrack is instrumental, so there aren''t any overtly hateful lyrics, etc).
SinCityAssassin
Member
He may have meant "vehemently".
Sooo... Hearsay, then?
The link worked at one point. I saw it.
How is it hearsay to see the guy posting awful shit directly on the website?
I mean... While I don't agree with the idea in question, Israel is oppressing a population.
Pretty much. I never let a creator's personal opinions tarnish my enjoyment of their products unless said products are very clearly made to promote their agendas and very little else like most of OSC's later books.
Pretty much. If you start to dig into old stuff like old books, you learn this pretty fast.
Plus, videogames are hardly made by just one person.
Crazy Diamond
Member
Can't relate. Alot of people put alot of work into these games, mostly to entertain us. That's all I care about.
Spieler Eins
Member
Phil Fish won't see my money.
Because I can't see it "directly" yet. Where can I see the man himself saying something violent / hateful,and not just something we might not agree with?
Adrian Chmielarz continued stanning for Gamergate and Sadpuppies keeps making me feel uneasy. He'll say that he doesn't really support them and that he's just trying to right the biases of the media and.. yeaaahh. I wouldn't not play his games. I liked Ender's Game, loved The Fountainhead. I can separate art from artists. But some people just misuse their platform.
I have watched that, and that's the first thing I thought of when I started hearing the DQ soundtrack.
It's harder for me to reconcile with Sugiyama as he lives in a much less ignorant time where people should have zero tolerance for his dangerous and draconian views. Also, Sugiyama is actively spreading these awful views using his celebrity as a platform... in a way I am putting money into his pocket to spread this bullshit by purchasing the game he composed.
It really doesn't sit well with me at all.
DrunkShogun
Member
David cage. Think the team he has is good at what they do but he always is the core problem with each game due to his writing and his deluded belief that he can actually write a coherent plot. You wouldn't believe how relieved I was when I heard his latest game has additional writers.
Brian_FETO
Banned
People being hardened/turned cruel from cruelty
He's not generalizing all people. Both games feature people who have experienced the most extreme forms of prejudice and how it has warped them as people. The portrayal obviously isn't above criticism but I have to disagree with people reading it as "they were actually bad all along"
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
What if you found out the creator was using profit to fund an organization dedicated to making your life worse?
NullPointer
Member
Same here.
I'd only draw a line in the sand if I knew a purchase would go directly towards lobbying towards actions I find reprehensible.
Short of that I have absolutely no expectations for the persons behind the creation.
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
Oh I kinda hate Randy Pitchford but I don't like Gearbox' games anyway.
purseowner
Member
Unless you can find a cached version, you can't. You'll just have to take the word of me and the few other posters in this thread who read this article when it was still live.
Others have linked articles which show him being reprehensible, but the GayGamer one highlighted the groups he's donated to.
And besides - isn't his intensely hateful language enough for you?
ShooterMcGavin
Member
Yeah, as a lot of others are saying, I try to separate the art from the artist.
It's technically set in the universe of OSC's Empire books.
I recenly played the re-release for the first time when it came out on PC, and honestly the tone of the story seems...oddly goofy, which gave me the impression the developers were subtly kinda making fun of OSC's "leftist terrorists taking over murica" setting.
Pretty much. I always try to judge ihe game on it's own merits.
VendettaRed07
Member
I regret coming into this thread
Generally, I try to divorce the aspect of a creation with the creator's politics, though this can be tricky if it's more of a 1-person creation. For example, I can like DQ's music while thinking the creator's beliefs are awful. It may help that while I like DQ music, I've never heard any that I thought really stuck out to me though.
Crazy Diamond
Member
I don't live my life based on ifs and buts, so couldn't tell you.
.
Unless it's actually putting the views into the game, I don't think it would effect me.. Their work could come from literally anyone (well, you know what I mean), so why would you associate their politics with the piece of work?
If Mario - in the exact same state it's in now - was developed and released by a one-man team of someone with horrible political views, would that matter enough to not play it? I guess you could argue that you wouldn't want to support the person, but... I still don't think it would drag my experience down. It's about separation. And the OP's scenario is different in a large way that it was not the one guy, but an entire team. To lose some enjoyment because one man in the team has sickening views shouldn't discredit the thing/make it less enjoyable.
Lots of great musicians, actors etc. have horrible political, social, even religious views. They are first and foremost good at what they create or do. I acknowledge them for their strengths but stop short of embracing people like this outside of whatever sphere they contribute to that made them successful and famous.
Tizoc
Member
Ah here it is, the troubled development of Castlevania LoS2
https://www.destructoid.com/castlevania-lords-of-shadow-2-s-development-was-troubled-271310.phtml
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PmTUW-owa2w
https://www.destructoid.com/castlevania-lords-of-shadow-2-s-development-was-troubled-271310.phtml
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PmTUW-owa2w
I guess I don't see it as intensely hateful. It is, on the other hand, intentionally provocative. If you follow him on social media you'll know he's a huge troll. But he is really nice. You read a 7 year old article, but I've watched him interact with a gay man, a coworker, in person on multiple occasions. He's extremely warm and genuinely nice.
I don't care if someone's a dick sometimes, like Hideki Kamiya or Phil Fish, but I draw the line with harmful opinions on race, gender, sexual orientation, etc. Was upset when I found out about Doug TenNapel because I LOVED the Earthworm Jim games as a kid. Even liked the third one.
TheRazielim
Member
Couldn't care less about creator's politics, doesn't offend me. You could be Hitler incarnate, but if you make a great game then it's worth my money. Although that's mostly because very little offends me.
I do find the tension between the alleged immorality or despicability of a person and the greatness of his art fascinating. In some cases, the formeer actually benefits the latter (Lovecraft's racism was one part of his worldview that fueled such imaginative worlds).
I do find the tension between the alleged immorality or despicability of a person and the greatness of his art fascinating. In some cases, the formeer actually benefits the latter (Lovecraft's racism was one part of his worldview that fueled such imaginative worlds).
Luckily we live in the future and have ready access to time travel machine called "The way back machine"
https://web.archive.org/web/2016031...t/2011/05/on_ratfist_doug_tennapel_and_w.html
Wishing gay people to die of AIDs isn't hateful?
Please explain why we need to learn to do this? I'll give you a reason why we don't - the money you spent making them successful gets used to create a platform to push their shitty agenda. Make someone famous and now they have a way of spreading a message that normal people (you and I) don't have. This is why I won't spend a cent on any film with Tom Cruise in it.
Yeah, don't let morals or ethics get in your way of being entertained. The Romans would be proud of this attitude.
Okay now YOU have to show me where he said he wished for gay people to die of aids. Really dude?
BennyBlanco
aka IMurRIVAL69
Pretty much where I stand, unless the games industry has a Roman Polanski type figure I'm not aware of.
Chairmanchuck
Member
I remember something similar happened in Japan, where Miyazaki said sth. that Japan should apologize already (and not just half-apologies they did until now), then afaik the guy who wrote the Gate Light novels attacked Miyazaki and said sth. like "Come on. It wasnt that bad."
But compared to DQ you can actually see in his Light novels/web novels that that author is a piece of shit author that even adds his political views in the novels. Denial of Nanjing rape, racism etc.
Here is just an excerpt from the manga-adaption:
Raging Spaniard
If they are Dutch, upright and breathing they are more racist than your favorite player
Only exception Ive made is for Fez and Phil Fish. Still havent played it.
Sad to hear about TenNapel. Ive met him personally and Im good friends with his best friend, so thats very disappointing.
Sad to hear about TenNapel. Ive met him personally and Im good friends with his best friend, so thats very disappointing.
SinCityAssassin
Member
You can still be civil and be an inherently shitty person all at once. What benefit do you gain from trolling in an interview by equate gay marriage to taking a dump in the women's bathroom.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Kingdom Come. I was interested in the game until the lead dev showed himself to be a huge asshole and big supporter of Gamergate.
Fucking hell, why did I have to learn this? Now EWJ and Skullmonkeys are ruined in my mind
Fantastapotamus
Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
Thet ragic thing about this is.....the story in Shadow Complex is absolute garbage. Like 100% nonsense. I could have written that. Anybody could cause the entire story is literally
Evil secret people have army. Want to take over US. Some random dude stops them.
No joke, this is all that happens.
Ah, the "He was only trolling" card.
Spirit of Jazz
Banned
I think it's naive to just say "you have to separate art from the creator" especially when they're still alive and the money you're spending goes to said creator who may donate it to anti-gay/anti-abortion/racist movements. When it comes to things like the artist potentially being a dick in interviews then I don't think it's an issue at all, but I don't see why you'd ever support the work of somebody who participates in activities that disgust you.
Basileus777
Member
You don't have to. It's perfectly fine to abstain from someone's art because of what they've done or supported. Videogames are a bit stranger here because they are rarely made by one person, but there are certainly authors that I would not patronage.
OT, but The WayBack Machine is depressing if you have a favorite site that's fallen out of activity. Visiting old forums with it that I spent so much of my life on at eleven, twelve, thirteen years old and seeing the life that was there, to then see them now in current state, dead and abandoned, hurts sometimes.
I can't, because the forum that he said those comments on prevented the internet wayback machine from archiving the post using robots.txt
But he said it, and others reported on it, and I saw it.
And really, if your whole argument is going to boil down to some imaginary line you're gonna draw when bigotry stops being merely disgusting and starts being "hateful" then you probably should just stop responding.
Lightning_Roller
Banned
Learning about Doug was surprising and depressing considering that I really liked the look of Armikrog. But I won't spend a cent on it as long as I shall live.
Man I sure hope no one is judging your entire character based on shit you said almost a decade ago in a niche website interview.