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[tuxfool]

There's no aspect of Ryan that I would call reasonable. He's basically another Pence in that he believes the same insane stuff that Trump believes and worse but is actually capable of framing his speech in a way that doesn't come across as if he's doing a Simpson's cameo as the Crazy Cat Lady. As despicable as Trump is republicans like Ryan and Cruz are far more dangerous.

In which case "reasonable" republicans cannot be called reasonable.

 

[Figboy79]

Republicans hate Americans and I genuinely don't understand why.

Because there's a growing population of brown Americans, and the idea that those brown people will benefit in some way upsets them. Like, a lot.

 

[ReplacementPelican]

Why do the right actually hate planned parenthood so much? It seems really weird to hate it.

 

[Angelus Errare]

They truly have become the party of evil.

Become? You're going to have to point out when they weren't already.

 

[aeolist]

This is what frustrates me the most. At least with the GOP you can expect mustache-twirling villainy, but Sanders in the end I think has done more harm than good.

I love the ideals Sanders stood for, but I think he tried to achieve them in the most counter-productive way possible. There's no way any of his platform was going to ever be achievable. If he kept things small, doing what he could to pivot the Democrats a little more to the left and get young people interested in politics, then I'd have no issue. But things instead blew completely out of proportion, and I don't know if it was ego or what, but suddenly you had Sanders going all in on actually trying to become the President on a platform made entirely of snake oil. And the result when he lost was not a unified left wing but a faction that is now actively working to undermine Democrats, consequences be damned.

Democrats have ended up with their own personal Tea Party through no fault of their own and I hope that division isn't what causes this country to lose everything.

it is actually amazing to me that the democratic party has been so good at demonizing sanders and his supporters and so bad at doing the same to republicans

to me that's a pretty clear indication of their political priorities but draw your own conclusions i guess

 

[RDreamer]

Why do the right actually hate planned parenthood so much? It seems really weird to hate it.

Because it gives them moral high ground over democrats with their dumb as shit base. It's easy to keep pushing it and the base doesn't care about nuance. Democrats are for killing babies. Planned parenthood is for killing babies. It's a way to get a solid voting block.

that growth has already been stifled by actual republican policies, trump or no trump. the focus on the orange buffoon at the top of the ticket continues to show that politicians care more about appearances than substance.

It's not politicians, it's people. Here in the liberal bastion of Neogaf we had people slowing all over Jon fucking Hunstman. Non politicians thought Pence won the debate hands down. Young liberals you seem to love flock to Johnson and Stein. It's obvious a lot of people don't give a fuck about substance.

 

[WrenchNinja]

How can they be this cartoonishly evil. It boggles the mind.

 

[Slayven]

Become? You're going to have to point out when they weren't already.

Lincoln ?

 

[whitehawk]

Paul Ryan had no back bone.

 

[Netherscourge]

A Trump Super-majority would pretty much make America a right-wing nation for decades.

1. Conservative SCOTUS
2. Conservative Congress
3. Conservative Senate
4. Rich get richer and segregate more from the middle class
5. Poor get poorer and more desperate and alienated
6. Environment goes to hell
7. Social Security would be done
8. Unemployment benefits would probably get reduced
9. Most social service programs would be axed
10. Public schools will become second-rate daycares; teacher unions will probably be damaged. The better teachers will migrate to private schools.
11. Good healthcare plans/insurance would go back to being provided mostly by employers only
12. Get ready for Jesus to get shoved down your throat even more.
13. Gun restrictions would be drastically reduced and we'd have fucking weapons everywhere.
14. All labor unions would be at risk of losing arbitration power.

It would literally be the miserable dystopia that sci-fi authors write about.

 

[StarCreator]

it is actually amazing to me that the democratic party has been so good at demonizing sanders and his supporters and so bad at doing the same to republicans

to me that's a pretty clear indication of their political priorities but draw your own conclusions i guess

I'm not sure if you're attempting to use my post as a case in point for the actions of the Democratic Party, but you would be mistaken if so. I'm an unaffiliated moderate and wrote that solely based on my personal observations over the past year or two.

To be honest, if Schwarzenegger were eligible to run for President and if he ran as an independent, you'd have to give me a good reason to not vote for him. I think his ideals are closest to mine of any politician I've ever followed, and him separate from the toxicity of the GOP would be amazing.

 

[Meowster]

Become? You're going to have to point out when they weren't already.

Eisenhower Republicans didn't seem that bad.

Then we got Nixon.

 

[Transistor]

I.Fucking.Hate.This.Party.

.

 

[Chezzymann]

Yeah I bet Paul still hates Trump's guts but is endorsing him so he can get these things done. Too bad trump wont win though.

 

[Lord Frieza]

because they've been doing one and not the other, and their current strategy is both stupid and disgusting. you're not going to persuade any republicans to vote for hillary outside a small portion of the party establishment who are not currently or in the future running for office, which is a few hundred votes with no influence at all.

I mean, I don't know, it's a harder thing to do than you seem to want to admit, though. Like I said, the reaction to Bernie after he lost showed you that there was less actual interest in his policies, and more about his cult of personality. As StarCreator said, it's almost like a mini-Tea Party situation with them. Reaching young voters is much harder than just promising them the moon, especially when many of them are still too young to really understand the process of government.

But, I mean, there was an article earlier about how Colorado had a record breaking number of Dem registrations not too long ago. It's not much, but maybe it's a start, I dunno.

that growth has already been stifled by actual republican policies, trump or no trump. the focus on the orange buffoon at the top of the ticket continues to show that politicians care more about appearances than substance.

For now, sure, but when the GOP buries Trump and tries to pretend he was never even a thing? You're looking at it too short term, this is a long term strategy and idea. Think of how the GOP touts Regan out all the time, to remind everyone of their former glory? And it works a lot, too, since a lot of GOP people remember Reagan fondly despite him being a very, very polarizing figure, and even moreso during his actual presidency. Now imagine Trump as the anti-version of that. Long-term, not short-term.

 

[marc^o^]

The dude on the far left looks kinda like Ted Cruz

I can't unsee it now.

 

[Lord Frieza]

it is actually amazing to me that the democratic party has been so good at demonizing sanders and his supporters and so bad at doing the same to republicans

to me that's a pretty clear indication of their political priorities but draw your own conclusions i guess

You're beginning to sound more and more like a Bernie or Buster, and I'm starting to wonder if I've just wasted my time even having this conversation with you.

 

[RedHill]

Will republicans ever not be comic book villains?

 

[RDreamer]

Reaching young voters is much harder than just promising them the moon, especially when many of them are still too young to really understand the process of government.

Especially when you successfully manage to reach younger voters and then they turn on you in midterms leaving you high and dry mostly because they don't fucking understand how government has to work.

 

[hydragonwarrior]

Thanks for caring about the environment, Paul.

 

[KingV]

How long have they been trying to repeal Roe?

My head just hit the table.

There's nothing to repeal.

 

[ReplacementPelican]

Because it gives them moral high ground over democrats with their dumb as shit base. It's easy to keep pushing it and the base doesn't care about nuance. Democrats are for killing babies. Planned parenthood is for killing babies. It's a way to get a solid voting block.

But the country is almost a 50/50 split (.97 M/F) and planned parenthood provides vital services in distributing contraception, STI treatment and cancer screenings at far higher rates than any abortion services (which I assume is what they dislike) mostly for women. It just makes no sense, how did they even poison those waters so effectively? It's almost as if terrible ideas just get set in stone through weird propaganda and make people turn against services that are beneficial to themselves.

Mind-boggling.

 

[mercenar1e]

at some point they will do these things though.

 

[aeolist]

For now, sure, but when the GOP buries Trump and tries to pretend he was never even a thing? You're looking at it too short term, this is a long term strategy and idea. Think of how the GOP touts Regan out all the time, to remind everyone of their former glory? And it works a lot, too, since a lot of GOP people remember Reagan fondly despite him being a very, very polarizing figure, and even moreso during his actual presidency. Now imagine Trump as the anti-version of that. Long-term, not short-term.

i don't understand why anyone thinks this will be a thing. trump voters are not going anywhere and the clear path to success in national right-wing politics is the trump model.

going forward i expect trump supporters and trump-like candidates to be the future of the republican party, "principled conservatism" be damned. if they're not embarrassed about it now i don't see them being embarrassed about it in 2020 when they run on the same platform after it's been polished up a bit.

 

[Peltz]

edit: nvm

 

[aeolist]

You're beginning to sound more and more like a Bernie or Buster, and I'm starting to wonder if I've just wasted my time even having this conversation with you.

i'm a leftist politically which means i voted for sanders in the primary and will be happily voting for hillary since she's the candidate best positioned to defeat the worst option in the general election.

the idea that we need to fall in and stop criticizing the party is anathema to my belief about what's best for this country. hillary and the DNC deserve loads of criticism, and hopefully once she's president that will lead to more progressive change.

 

[Palette Swap]

There's the rub: Christianity and Republicanism/Conservatism are mutually exclusive.

You'll see folk who will argue that's not true, but a lot of fundamentalists would likely call the early Christian church a bunch of socialists.

EL OH EL

To be fair, if these people saw Jesus and the apostles on a plane, they'd call security because you can't trust a bunch of middle-eastern dudes speaking a foreign language.

 

[Lord Frieza]

i don't understand why anyone thinks this will be a thing. trump voters are not going anywhere and the clear path to success in national right-wing politics is the trump model.

going forward i expect trump supporters and trump-like candidates to be the future of the republican party, "principled conservatism" be damned. if they're not embarrassed about it now i don't see them being embarrassed about it in 2020 when they run on the same platform after it's been polished up a bit.

Are you kidding? Trump has been toxic. He tanked worst than any candidate in modern history, somewhat recovered, and is on his way to tanking again. He's literally destroyed almost any bridge to minority voters, not to mentioned caused a huge fuss within the party itself. Unless Trump manages a big upset and actually wins, the GOP is not going to want to be associated with him at all. They are embarrassed about it, they just can't say it now, because they want to keep some glimmer of victory and unity on display, but it's show, and it's not even that hard to see.

Trump is ultimately a very large cult of personality, like Bernie. Sure, he has his fanatics, but his fanatics can't win elections. And once he loses, a lot of those fanatics are just going to latch on to someone else, like the BoBers latched on the Johnson. And a lot of Trump's support is from the 'Well, even if this jackass is leading the pack, so be it' variety, and that's not enough to win the President even. Trump is by no means a political messiah for the GOP. You'd have to be blind as fuck to see what's happening that way right now.

 

[Seik]

If Donald Trump is elected president

So it won't happen.

Good.

 

[Futureman]

Party of Deplorables.

 

[StarCreator]

i'm a leftist politically which means i voted for sanders in the primary and will be happily voting for hillary since she's the candidate best positioned to defeat the worst option in the general election.

the idea that we need to fall in and stop criticizing the party is anathema to my belief about what's best for this country. hillary and the DNC deserve loads of criticism, and hopefully once she's president that will lead to more progressive change.

I really wish the Bernie or Bust camp would think like you do.

 

[Lord Frieza]

i'm a leftist politically which means i voted for sanders in the primary and will be happily voting for hillary since she's the candidate best positioned to defeat the worst option in the general election.

the idea that we need to fall in and stop criticizing the party is anathema to my belief about what's best for this country. hillary and the DNC deserve loads of criticism, and hopefully once she's president that will lead to more progressive change.

You don't have to 'fall in line,' but you start spouting shit about 'demonizing' Bernie, it looks like just bullshit BoBer talk. Bernie's policies were pie in the sky, and people latched onto it for a lot of the same reasons Trumpers latched on Trump: it spoke to how they felt, but ultimately, they didn't understand that the stuff they're hearing just wasn't realistic, so they latched on to similarly unrealistic things like Johnson and Stein.

The main thing that kept Bernie from catching on like Trump is the GOP is a helluva lot more disenfranchised than the Dems, not to mention they've spent over a decade dripping toxic rhetoric into a base that was already filled with piss and vigor.

 

[aeolist]

keep talking about bernie or busters as if they're of any significance at all

he's as much to blame for them as clinton was for PUMAs in 2008

 

[Lord Frieza]

keep talking about bernie or busters as if they're of any significance at all

he's as much to blame for them as clinton was for PUMAs in 2008

You're right, they aren't that significant, but they sure are loud and persistent, as seen at the DNC this year.

 

[Oppo]

like the BoBers latched on the Johnson.

points

 

[ProtomanNeo]

Do it. Please. The U.S. voting public is far too complacent. This is exactly what people need to realize their vote does matter.

 

[HK-47]

Do it. Please. The U.S. voting public is far too complacent. This is exactly what people need to realize their vote does matter.

lol accelerationism

 

[Davey Cakes]

theres gotta be something the DNC can do to help motivate voters to vote in local elections

Bernie fucking Sanders.

They had a candidate that actually got young people excited in the political process and they continued to throw that away.

Say what you will about the guy, he mobilized democratic and independent voters better than Hillary could. He was more about providing leadership that people want instead of leadership that people choose purely because they have no alternative.

 

[Angelus Errare]

Bernie fucking Sanders.

They had a candidate that actually got young people excited in the political process and they continued to throw that away.

Say what you will about the guy, he mobilized democratic and independent voters better than Hillary could. He was more about providing leadership that people want instead of leadership that people choose purely because they have no alternative.

Problem is the only people Bernie rallied were young white men (and to lesser extent white women). Not enough to win an election (or to get them to actually go out and vote for him...).

 

[TheLaughingStock]

I told GAF Paul Ryan was an unserious con man and deserved 0 respect from folks on the other side just because he was withholding his endorsement. Folks like Cruz, Ryan, and Kasich are worse because they're taken seriously and have very bad ideas. I'm pleased Trump kicked butt in the primaries because he's better than the typical Republican ideologue.

 

[Dude Abides]

Bernie fucking Sanders.

They had a candidate that actually got young people excited in the political process and they continued to throw that away.

Say what you will about the guy, he mobilized democratic and independent voters better than Hillary could. He was more about providing leadership that people want instead of leadership that people choose purely because they have no alternative.

Except he didn't mobilize them better to actually vote for him. Hence he lost.

 

[RDreamer]

Bernie fucking Sanders.

They had a candidate that actually got young people excited in the political process and they continued to throw that away.

Say what you will about the guy, he mobilized democratic and independent voters better than Hillary could. He was more about providing leadership that people want instead of leadership that people choose purely because they have no alternative.

I'm still unconvinced a large portion of the Sanders supporters wouldn't completely abandon everything come midterms when he couldn't actually accomplish a fraction of what they want because that's how reality and politics are.

The same shit happened with Obama. Maybe people were too young to remember it, but I was there. Obama was just like Bernie. We were all excited, we voted, and we were proud. Then Republicans tried to shit on everything and Obama couldn't accomplish as much as he wanted for really good reasons and the midterms came and fucked him and everyone else over.

 

[kswiston]

It seems like Americans need to start voting for more than just their president.

 

[Saint Gregory]

Why do the right actually hate planned parenthood so much? It seems really weird to hate it.

Because one of the best ways to keep poor people poor is to deny them birth control options and force them to have children that they can't afford to care for. Roe V. Wade and facilities like PP are there for the benefit of the underclass since wealthy women have never needed laws or gov't programs to be in place to protect their reproductive rights. Turning this into a religious issue is just typical Republican rebranding in the same vein as all of their work towards denying financial assistance to the poor being called "fiscal responsibility".

 

[VendettaRed07]

Bernie fucking Sanders.

They had a candidate that actually got young people excited in the political process and they continued to throw that away.

Say what you will about the guy, he mobilized democratic and independent voters better than Hillary could. He was more about providing leadership that people want instead of leadership that people choose purely because they have no alternative.

Bernie would likely only have significantly increased turnout and excitement in states that were already solidly blue.

He would have made the map much more favorable for Trump. Bernie did poorly in virtually every southern state or any state with a sizable minority population.

Virginia would likely be in play for Trump; and he'd probably be winning by a decent margin in Florida and North Carolina ..and he wouldn't be making Trump play defense on Romney states like Arizona and Georgia.

 

[Davey Cakes]

Except he didn't mobilize them better to actually vote for him. Hence he lost.

It was a huge uphill battle. He may have lost but he still had impact.

I'm not saying that he had enough backing to be President. But, damn it, he needs to be the messenger for the democratic party at this point so that young voters and fence sitters will be continue to be engaged.

 

[Slayven]

Do it. Please. The U.S. voting public is far too complacent. This is exactly what people need to realize their vote does matter.

Fuck that noise.

 

[Lebron]

Bernie fucking Sanders.

They had a candidate that actually got young people excited in the political process and they continued to throw that away.

Say what you will about the guy, he mobilized democratic and independent voters better than Hillary could. He was more about providing leadership that people want instead of leadership that people choose purely because they have no alternative.

And he would of handed Trump the victory. Bernie didn't mobilize anything, that's why he kept losing to Hilary in states that mattered.

 

[VendettaRed07]

Do it. Please. The U.S. voting public is far too complacent. This is exactly what people need to realize their vote does matter.

Yeah fuck this.

This is actually happening in the UK and it's doing nothing. That country is going down the shitter and they're all happy about it.

 

[acheron_xl]

My head just hit the table.

There's nothing to repeal.

You know what I mean. Undoing it has been a Republican wedge issue for decades. Much like I expect Obamacare to be.