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Red Dead Redemption 2 (Fall 2017, PS4/XB1, Trailer 10/20 @ 11 AM EST) announced

What will ultimately anger people the most about this game?


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well, not even the ARTWORK shows one prominent woman. And when people were arguing that there better be a playable / prominent female character, you brought up the argument of comically forced hyperdiversity - which is super flawed, imho, because we're not talking about underrepresentation of an ethnic minority here, but about the underrepresentation of an entire gender.
so, to answer your question, no there wouldn't need to be a noah's ark of characters for people to be happy.
But a well developed female character, maybe even playable, in a Rockstar game - that'd be nice. Because these games sell. Those games make history. They shape video game and popular culture. GTA V was the biggest piece of entertainment media ever, and prominent women that aren't 'nagging daughters' 'nagging anal starlets' 'nagging wives' are prominently absent in that game, sadly.

I agree about the artwork, but we have NO idea about the cast of characters that is involved with the game, or who the main protags actually are. I would just reserve judgement on the diversity of a game until we find out who is actually involved and what roles they play in the story.

A game can have a strong Female lead that is not playable as ND has proven and still be an excellent character. Representation and depiction are much more important to me than actually being a lead and playable. Give me a strong female character that is not treated as a dumping ground for a the male lead or an African American/Latino character that is no filled with stereotypes and I'd be fine with that.

There are also actually merits with John going out and conducting his work with just his boys as we'll see with Final Fantasy XV. Bros journey stuff can be fun as well.

Diversity in life is important, but it should not be forced, but we have no idea how they are handling it in the game (outside of the poster omission) I guess we'll have to wait and see how they set up the cast and make judgements later.


I've never watched anime in my life, so I'm completely unfamiliar with this.

You've probably heard of it 100x now:

tumblr_o99g283UEZ1slmfozo2_500.gif

Cowboy Bebop
 
Came to get pumped from the Announcement with GAF, and the short wait for the Gameplay Trailer.
And yet,..people are bitching.

Later
 
Well.. my first impression from that announcement is disappointment. I'll wait for the trailer to drop though before judging more.
 
I think he means that Ps4 pro will be the more popular of the two upgraded consoles and therefore, developers will have to cater more to that system instead of taking full advantage of scorpio

Nah, even in the 6th generation when PS2 was beating ,a lot Xbox versions were and are still better than their PS2 counterparts.
 
+10 post

Folks your argument ends when the entitlement begins.. Rockstar or any other dev/creative doesn't own anyone a damn thing

Everyone latching onto that one guy's post seems to have it in their mind that the argument to have more women in Rockstar games somehow stems from entitlement.

Hey guys, this is a forum. One where we discuss stuff. Representations of the underrepresented is a pretty valid topic to talk about, especially when it concerns a game that seemingly has 7 male protagonists. What are we really saying when people are lauding a post that is seemingly wanting to silence that discussion?
 
I honestly don't see the reasoning behind 'R* aiming for double dippers' theory for RDR2.

It's a Fall 2017 (or more likely Spring 2018) game, lots of console gamers would've already own a PS4 Pro or Scorpio by then. They don't need to double dip on PC version if it ever come to the platform. The game would be already looks stellar on those powered up consoles anyway.
 
No, but at the expense of historical accuracy?

Red Dead Redemption is clearly more interested in the tropes and stylings of Western films than in historical accuracy of the West. If you think Red Dead Redemption is a realist depiction of the actualities of life in the wild west, then I've got a bridge to sell you.
 
I needed to read a post like this. Its unbelievable how entitled people are.
You dont like the game? Dont buy the fucking game.
If you have a vision go ahead and develop it; stop telling artists how should they do it smh

Fucking word.

Rockstar owes nothing to all of you.
 
"Zero excuse"... So you're saying that someone creating a piece of art literally doesn't have the right to deliver their own vision? Obviously you're not referring to any actual legal requirements as there are none, so you must be saying there is some kind of universal moral imperative that any creator must obey regardless of what they actually feel like making?

I cannot stand this kind of entitled attitude. "How dare anyone create something that doesn't prescribe to my particular sensibilities!" Here's the thing: you can absolutely be disappointed if it's not what you wanted. Everyone has preferences, and you should absolutely tell a company that you are interested in (your preferred experience here). They might even do that at some point. But there is a difference between saying "I'm super disappointed this doesn't have a female protagonist! I would have really liked that" and "Fuck you dev you slimy racist bastards how dare you make the game you want and not the one I want!". That's the problem. The complaint is always that it's wrong that they didn't make what you wanted, which is the definition of entitlement.

This angers me because I want to have the freedom to make what I want to make. I don't want to be yelled at because I told a story that was on my heart, but it wasn't exactly what someone else would have created. The greatest works of art come from creators expressing their visions, because it's a story they have to tell, a picture they have to paint, music they have to write.

There is a TON of media that doesn't interest me. Things like the Saw movies disgust me. I think the world would probably be better off without that, so should I campaign to have those banned? Should I form an oversight committee to govern the direction of a sequel so that it's something I want? Or should I leave the creative direction to the people who actually wanted that to begin with?

Rockstar committed a grave sin here by releasing a picture that only has men in it, which means this is clearly going to be a horrible sexist game, right? So I'm curious. Would you go back in time and complain about Seven Samurai because the leads are men? I mean, that's seven lead characters and they are all men. That's bad, right? And yet, for some reason, as summarized by Wikipedia:



It almost seems like it might have actually been a good movie with a good story despite starring only men. How about The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings? Some of the greatest, most influential works of fiction in history, and they predominantly star men. Do you know why? Because these are the stories and the characters that the creators wanted to create.

Here's the truth: there are a lot of video games, that feature all manner of characters. Are there not as many representing what you are looking for? Here's an idea. Don't demand a creator change their vision to match yours. Instead of bitching about it, go make the game you want. That's what I'm doing. I will enjoy what media I enjoy, and will add what I think is missing.
Well done. Agreed.
 
No, but at the expense of historical accuracy?

Red Dead Redemption took place in 1911.

That alone throws the entire historical accuracy angle out the window. This argument is always extremely flimsy since most media isn't striving for historical accuracy at all. You can't pick and choose historical accuracy, something is either historically accurate or it is not.

RDR is not.
 
Awesome. I hope there aren't multiple playable protagonists. I hated that in GTAV. If it was similar to Yakuza 4 or 5 I'd be down but not like GTA.
 
just most guys in gangs are sexist, there bad guys, they wouldn't treat female the same thats obvious to anybody that know about history, even in the butch cassidy gang, you notice she doesn't have pic with the gang. my favorite movies are mafia.gangster movies, i just never seen it happen, just shows you even a director doesn't think it will work.

This and many other posts in this topic remind me how bad Gaming Side is compared to OT when it comes to issues of diversity and representation. Incredibly regressive, occasionally literally reality-defying bullshit.

Some of y'all need to grow the fuck up and accept that media need not conform to your narrow-as-fuck worldview. Gaming is growing and expanding as a medium.

Fucking sorry.
 
+10 post

Folks your argument ends when the entitlement begins.. Rockstar or any other dev/creative doesn't own anyone a damn thing

And no one owes Rockstar their silence over issues that are important to them.

Again, I'm sure everyone who is annoyed by the lack of diversity are still hyped for the game. I know I am.
 
Are people not allowed to make games about a white guy anymore? Jeez.

Damn you're right, fam. Why didn't anyone ever think of this?

just shows you even a director doesn't think it will work.

Because precious movie writers and directors aren't susceptible to the same prejudices and patriarchal views of the subjects they make stories about, and the stories/talents that inspired them.


The point of speaking out and criticism isn't to stifle an artist's creativity, but to bring an issue to light in hopes that the art becomes more inclusive and interesting moving forward.

And yes, we don't know anything about RDR2, etc., etc..
 
An epic tale of life in America’s unforgiving heartland, the game's vast and atmospheric world will also provide the foundation for a brand new online multiplayer experience.
So this quote means a single player campaign (epic tale of life) and a new type of MP are coming. I'm excited!
 
just most guys in gangs are sexist, there bad guys, they wouldn't treat female the same thats obvious to anybody that know about history, even in the butch cassidy gang, you notice she doesn't have pic with the gang. my favorite movies are mafia.gangster movies, i just never seen it happen, just shows you even a director doesn't think it will work.
Stop spouting bullshit and go actually read about history holy shit dude. Your favorite movies are mafia and gangster movies and that seems to be the only reality that you accept without actually reading about history.
 
Actually you can read LoTR as an early feminist text. Look at the Eowyn plotline. In the end, only a woman can kill the Witch King of Angmar. Just sayin.
Well you got him there.

Honestly, I don't see how having a female character is that big if a deal. Sure it's fine if done right, but if the story and gameplay are good, then eh? It's their game, they can do what they want. And it's Rockstar, so they will do what they want.

And again. We still haven't even seen the trailer. I'm sure there's going to be more than 7 characters in the whole game.
 
What a time to be a gamer.

2017
Horizon Zero Dawn
Cyberpunk 2077
Red Dead Redemption 2

2018
God of War
Spider-Man PS4
Death Stranding
Bloodborne 2 (I know it won't happen but I still believe)

giphy.gif

I agree so far as 2017 goes, assuming there aren't any delays. Probably won't buy one of those games you listed under 2018 unless Bloodborne 2 happens.
 
"Zero excuse"... So you're saying that someone creating a piece of art literally doesn't have the right to deliver their own vision? Obviously you're not referring to any actual legal requirements as there are none, so you must be saying there is some kind of universal moral imperative that any creator must obey regardless of what they actually feel like making?

I cannot stand this kind of entitled attitude. "How dare anyone create something that doesn't prescribe to my particular sensibilities!" Here's the thing: you can absolutely be disappointed if it's not what you wanted. Everyone has preferences, and you should absolutely tell a company that you are interested in (your preferred experience here). They might even do that at some point. But there is a difference between saying "I'm super disappointed this doesn't have a female protagonist! I would have really liked that" and "Fuck you dev you slimy racist bastards how dare you make the game you want and not the one I want!". That's the problem. The complaint is always that it's wrong that they didn't make what you wanted, which is the definition of entitlement.

This angers me because I want to have the freedom to make what I want to make. I don't want to be yelled at because I told a story that was on my heart, but it wasn't exactly what someone else would have created. The greatest works of art come from creators expressing their visions, because it's a story they have to tell, a picture they have to paint, music they have to write.

There is a TON of media that doesn't interest me. Things like the Saw movies disgust me. I think the world would probably be better off without that, so should I campaign to have those banned? Should I form an oversight committee to govern the direction of a sequel so that it's something I want? Or should I leave the creative direction to the people who actually wanted that to begin with?

Rockstar committed a grave sin here by releasing a picture that only has men in it, which means this is clearly going to be a horrible sexist game, right? So I'm curious. Would you go back in time and complain about Seven Samurai because the leads are men? I mean, that's seven lead characters and they are all men. That's bad, right? And yet, for some reason, as summarized by Wikipedia:



It almost seems like it might have actually been a good movie with a good story despite starring only men. How about The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings? Some of the greatest, most influential works of fiction in history, and they predominantly star men. Do you know why? Because these are the stories and the characters that the creators wanted to create.

Here's the truth: there are a lot of video games, that feature all manner of characters. Are there not as many representing what you are looking for? Here's an idea. Don't demand a creator change their vision to match yours. Instead of bitching about it, go make the game you want. That's what I'm doing. I will enjoy what media I enjoy, and will add what I think is missing.

Thank you. I'm tired of gender garbage trashing every single new game thread
 
Why are people praising this post like it anything other then a long winded version of the "Don't like it? Then make your game." argument?

He is entitled to his opinion like anyone else, wether it is mutually respected is another argument... no less than people 'jumping the gun without any bullets' based off of one silhouette stylized picture.

And I just wanted to use the Brad Pitt gif since I seen everyone using more common ones. ;-p
 
Yeah man they should have told us the story of John Marston's great great great great great great great great great great great great Grandson. That would have been awesome, hell they could have released it as a DLC for GTA Online.

exactly how long do you think humans live if you think there could be 12 generations in the space of 100 years
 
It's a game set in the Wild West. It reflects the time period. What would you like?
No, it doesn't.

The idea of the "Wild West" as being all white dudes is utter nonsense and a fabrication by Hollywood. Many cowboys were black freedmen emigrating from the South, or Mexicans, and women enjoyed much more freedom and power than their counterparts back East.
 
Why does it matter if there's a female character or not? I play games to enjoy them, I don't care if I enjoy them with a bunch of white dudes or a bunch of native females, as long as the games fun, why does it matter?

Honestly, I love how people are so upset about this and we haven't even seen the trailer yet. All we've seen is a couple of pics. Maybe there is a female character that hasn't been shown yet?

So much entitlement, so little patience.

You can play games for whatever reason you want. Personally I have "dude protagonist" fatigue and if it's another growling white dude protagonist i probably won't even bother


Lords of The Fallen is a perfect example of this. If I could make my own character or if the prebaked were interesting to me I would have played the game to the end. As it stood I hated my character so I just didn't want to play.
 
"Zero excuse"... So you're saying that someone creating a piece of art literally doesn't have the right to deliver their own vision? Obviously you're not referring to any actual legal requirements as there are none, so you must be saying there is some kind of universal moral imperative that any creator must obey regardless of what they actually feel like making?

I cannot stand this kind of entitled attitude. "How dare anyone create something that doesn't prescribe to my particular sensibilities!" Here's the thing: you can absolutely be disappointed if it's not what you wanted. Everyone has preferences, and you should absolutely tell a company that you are interested in (your preferred experience here). They might even do that at some point. But there is a difference between saying "I'm super disappointed this doesn't have a female protagonist! I would have really liked that" and "Fuck you dev you slimy racist bastards how dare you make the game you want and not the one I want!". That's the problem. The complaint is always that it's wrong that they didn't make what you wanted, which is the definition of entitlement.

This angers me because I want to have the freedom to make what I want to make. I don't want to be yelled at because I told a story that was on my heart, but it wasn't exactly what someone else would have created. The greatest works of art come from creators expressing their visions, because it's a story they have to tell, a picture they have to paint, music they have to write.

There is a TON of media that doesn't interest me. Things like the Saw movies disgust me. I think the world would probably be better off without that, so should I campaign to have those banned? Should I form an oversight committee to govern the direction of a sequel so that it's something I want? Or should I leave the creative direction to the people who actually wanted that to begin with?

Rockstar committed a grave sin here by releasing a picture that only has men in it, which means this is clearly going to be a horrible sexist game, right? So I'm curious. Would you go back in time and complain about Seven Samurai because the leads are men? I mean, that's seven lead characters and they are all men. That's bad, right? And yet, for some reason, as summarized by Wikipedia:



It almost seems like it might have actually been a good movie with a good story despite starring only men. How about The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings? Some of the greatest, most influential works of fiction in history, and they predominantly star men. Do you know why? Because these are the stories and the characters that the creators wanted to create.

Here's the truth: there are a lot of video games, that feature all manner of characters. Are there not as many representing what you are looking for? Here's an idea. Don't demand a creator change their vision to match yours. Instead of bitching about it, go make the game you want. That's what I'm doing. I will enjoy what media I enjoy, and will add what I think is missing.

On a forum where people bitch and moan about any and everything related to games, the one issue that they shouldn't discuss is gender and racial diversity. This post is a fucking joke.
 
Why does it matter if there's a female character or not? I play games to enjoy them, I don't care if I enjoy them with a bunch of white dudes or a bunch of native females, as long as the games fun, why does it matter?

Honestly, I love how people are so upset about this and we haven't even seen the trailer yet. All we've seen is a couple of pics. Maybe there is a female character that hasn't been shown yet?

So much entitlement, so little patience.
Perhaps it's comments like this that demonstrate little patience and a feeling of entitlement?

"It's just about fun, so why does it matter" is such a short-sighted dismissive excuse. Do you feel the same about movies and television? Is it entitlement to want more informed, less stereotypical portrayals especially when Hollywood of all industries is acknowledging it, such as with Denzel in Magnificent Seven and SLJ and Jennifer Jason Leigh in The Hateful Eight?

It's not about telling devs what to do, but encouraging better represenation
 
Diversity in media doesn't matter? With attitudes like this it's no wonder gaming is so far behind the curve. People get overly defensive and trying to shut down any conversations about their precious games and hobbies are pathetic.

Thank heavens they have what looks like a Native American in that pic. Wouldn't want GAF telling me it's a white mans world what'd you expect.

In a fucking Wild West game lol.
 
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