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[Spring-Loaded]

Every game should have gender sliders to be honest, but we all can't be as cool as Saints Row.

That really is an elegant solution. Wonder what was the thought process behind that design choice, and I wonder whether they just threw it in without much consideration.

It's not about being offended, it's about being inclusive. No one here is offended by a binary gender choice, considering that is the overwelming norm. We are just saying it would be more inclusive to have a gender non-specific option.

Yup, there's always room for improvement — state that in regard to any other aspect of video games and the people getting up in arms about this thread existing wouldn't bat an eye. Mention it about inclusiveness and all hell breaks loose.

 

[Lord of Ostia]

What if Im an Transgender moonlight elf with dark blue skin ?

I dont feel included in society Games dont give me that option

This is ridiculous, this time and age is so so ridiculous, every-single-thing is either racist/sexist or offensive.

No one is claiming that Pokemon is racist, sexist, or offensive. Seriously look at the posts, no one has claimed any of those things.

 

[Captain Europe]

What if Im an Transgender moonlight elf with dark blue skin ?

I dont feel included in society Games dont give me that option

This is ridiculous, this time and age is so so ridiculous, every-single-thing is either racist/sexist or offensive.

Great argument! Except for the fact that moon elves with blue skin don't exist, and this is about including actual people that exist.

 

[royox]

Lol I'm not offended or mad. Just surprised people is offended at a kids aimed videogame asking the kids if they want to play as a boy or a girl.

Now I'm scared about what's going to happen when Bioware releases ME:Andromeda with a Male/Female character creator. Shit's going to get real!

 

[ricardo_sousa11]

I'm curious how many topics it'll take the majority of GAF to realize that they're going to get banned for posting comments like this.

Maybe we should be banning useless threads that add nothing to our gaming society, like, not having a 25% male to 75% female ratio.

Common people...we're smarter and better than this.

 

[PBY]

Lol I'm not offended or mad. Just surprised people is offended at a kids aimed videogame asking the kids if they want to play as a boy or a girl.

Now I'm scared about what's going to happen when Bioware releases ME:Andromeda with a Male/Female character creator. Shit's going to get real!

No one's offended though?

And shit won't get real, the OP was pretty level-headed.

 

[Lunarwhale]

What if Im an Transgender moonlight elf with dark blue skin ?

Is it difficult to always think in non sequitur? What does any of that have to do with gender besides the first part?

Serious question: what's the point of just shitposting without even reading the thread? Why are some of you so against this discussion that you won't weigh in or just ignore it, but you actually go out of your way to try to negate it?

 

[Scientist Supreme!]

What if Im an Transgender moonlight elf with dark blue skin ?

I dont feel included in society Games dont give me that option

This is ridiculous, this time and age is so so ridiculous, every-single-thing is either racist/sexist or offensive.

From my experience the people who write post like this usually lead sad lives. Hopefully you get better.

Seriously, what the fuck is this fucking question.

What do you think it means? It's pretty clear to most people.

 

[Spring-Loaded]

Lol I'm not offended or mad. Just surprised people is offended at a kids aimed videogame asking the kids if they want to play as a boy or a girl.

Now I'm scared about what's going to happen when Bioware releases ME:Andromeda with a Male/Female character creator. Shit's going to get real!

You're definitely offended.

 

[ricardo_sousa11]

Great argument! Except for the fact that moon elves with blue skin don't exist, and this is about including actual people that exist.

Ok here you go,

Im a black male transgender lesbian.

I want this option available in games.

 

[PBY]

Maybe we should be banning useless threads that add nothing to our gaming society, like, not having a 25% male to 75% female ratio.

Common people...we're smarter and better than this.

Why do you feel so threatened by this discussion? Honest question.

 

[Spring-Loaded]

Ok here you go,

Im a black male transgender lesbian.

I want this option available in games.

Why do you think that's a ridiculous thing to want in a game?

 

[pretty done]

I don't think I recall a game with a character creator that let's you choose a gender other than boy/girl. Not seeing the issue.

 

[PadWarrior]

Perfectly fine with how gamefreak does it. Wouldn't change a thing.

 

[ricardo_sousa11]

From my experience the people who write post like this usually lead sad lives. Hopefully you get better.


What do you think it means? It's pretty clear to most people.

quite the opposite, I live a simpler life, without labeling eveyrthing.

Whatever you are, your color, sex, sexual options, you're a person to me. What annoys me, is that if we feel offended with everything, we will end up having 3 hour character creation menus, with millions of choices, that shouldnt even be an issue.

If I remember correclty, we're all born male/female, everything else is due to our personality/choices, why do we need a game so specific that we feel the need to have such specific choices ? It makes absolutely no sense, this isnt a life changing decision, its a game....

 

[royox]

You're definitely offended.

If that makes you sleep better...

 

[comedian]

What do you think it means? It's pretty clear to most people.

I understand what this means. My statement is about the question's absurdity rather than asking for clarification.

 

[Metroxed]

#1: The person you create is a voiceless protagonist.

#2: X and Y always refers to the character by their nickname or "you" or "that trainer". I don't think they used a gendered pronoun once.

Seems to me the game is already pretty set, just remove the binary option and give people a character creator.

This is not taking into consideration that Pokémon is a game translated to various dozens of languages where such neutral options are not available. In Spanish it could be "el entrenador" (the [male] trainer) or "la entrenadora" (the [female] trainer), there are no more options.

Adding more options, I think, is overcomplicating an issue that most people playing (children) do not give more than two seconds to think about. If someone identifies as male they can choose male (regardless of their actual biological sex) and the same if they identify as female. If they think of themselves as fluid then just choose whatever you feel the most comfortable with at the time.

Further character customisation (such as a wardrobe and without gender specific clothes or clothes that can be always used regardless of gender as well as unisex hairstyles) could easily solve this problem without having to include more genders.

 

[sasliquid]

What if Im an Transgender moonlight elf with dark blue skin ?

I dont feel included in society Games dont give me that option

This is ridiculous, this time and age is so so ridiculous, every-single-thing is either racist/sexist or offensive.

Are you a transgender moonlight elf with dark blue skin?

 

[oni-link]

It's a god damn videogame.

This is a sentiment I will never understand, more so from people who sign up and post on NeoGAF

Why would you apply for an account and then wait months for it to be approved just so you can dismiss anything worth discussing as "It's just a video game!"

So what? Should games be exclusively about shooting people and that's it?

 

[Lord of Ostia]

Ok here you go,

Im a black male transgender lesbian.

I want this option available in games.

Why would that be a problem? They SHOULD be represented in games, and other types of media as well.

 

[PBY]

quite the opposite, I live a simpler life, without labeling eveyrthing.

Whatever you are, your color, sex, sexual options, you're a person to me. What annoys me, is that if we feel offended with everything, we will end up having 3 hour character creation menus, with millions of choices, that shouldnt even be an issue.

PSA - Read this before you read the below: I'm NOT accusing YOU of anything.


The most racist people I know constantly say that they don't see color. I only bring this up to show that we shouldn't try to detach people - colorblindness (and its analogue in different contexts) creates a society that denies negative experiences of marginalized or minority groups, rejects their cultural heritage, and invalidates their unique perspectives.

 

[Scientist Supreme!]

I understand what this means. My statement is about the question's absurdity rather than asking for clarification.

What's so absurd about the question?

 

[Mavromatis]

I think many will be offended to see a third option on that menu. Internet prompts for a new wave but there is no need for disillusion; at the current state of the world, gender issues are idle talk for many and dangerous for more.
So adding a new option can include some but will exclude more at this state.

But creating an easy character creator would be really beneficial to the series. Not just because of this topic but will also be seen as progress by many of the games players.

 

[Imp the Dimp]

Woman 1: "Hey I'm pregnant!
Woman 2: "Oh!! Is it a boy or a girl??"
Woman 1: "FUCKING CIS BIGENDER SOCIETY BLA BLA BLA BLA BLA.....!"

For GOD'S sake this shit has to stop. It's a god damn videogame.

Why does the discussion about inclusions in video games offend you so much?

 

[DrArchon]

I don't think I recall a game with a character creator that let's you choose a gender other than boy/girl. Not seeing the issue.

Games like that do exist, they just aren't the norm. Saint's Row has the gender slider as mentioned previously, and one of my favorite games, Sunless Sea, has you independently selecting your character portrait and how your character is referred to, with male, female, and gender neutral options included.

It's not an issue that Gamefreak sticks with a binary Boy/Girl choice, but if they wanted to they could make it more inclusive by at least separating character models from how your character is referred to.

 

[Yoshi]

You don't seem to actually care so I don't know why your continuing with this.

I was asking seriously, but - and I know this is a dangerous thing to suspect, but I really think it probably is true - that what I got as an answer was a parody site. It lists:
- Caelgender: a gender which shares qualities with outer space or has the aesthetic of space, stars, nebulas, etc.
- Autigender: a gender that can only be understood in the context of being autistic
- Espigender: a gender that is related to being a spirit or exists on a higher or extradimensional plane
- Glassgender: a gender that is very sensitive and fragile
- Magigender: a gender that is mostly gender and the rest is something else

Just to cite some of the most unbelievable ones. I really cannot imagine this is meant seriously and if not being linked to by a NeoGAF user, I would be absolutely convinced that this was a parody set up by people really despising transgender people. I will ask only once and take the answer for granted, so please be truthful: Is this really, actually, a serious list of genders that are thought of being legitimate genders one may indentify with? This list includes genders that, to identify someone else with, require claiming some supernatural stuff exists...

 

[bobbychalkers]

Every game should have gender sliders to be honest, but we all can't be as cool as Saints Row.

SR2 still has some of the best character customization in gaming, 3 & 4 dropped the ball.

 

[Spring-Loaded]

This is a sentiment I will never understand, more so from people who sign up and post on NeoGAF

Why would you apply for an account and then wait months for it to be approved just so you can dismiss anything worth discussing as "It's just a video game!"

So what? Should games be exclusively about shooting people and that's it?

We have games where you do stuff like this

and we get threads about wishlists for stuff people want in whatever the next AAAA game is

but the notion of having additional character customization options becomes a matter of life and death.

 

[The Technomancer]

I can't

I can't even do this thread right now

good for those of you in here

 

[Azuran]

It's easy to replace he/she with the character name in most situations (if not all) though.

So, for example "Wow! He beat the Elite 4! He is totally gonna be the Pokemon Champion!"

Can just become "Wow! [name] beat the Elite 4! [name] is totally gonna be the Pokemon Champion!"

Even if the speech may feel a bit forced by doing it like this, it does removes that headache, per say

That's not a solution at all if it's going to be forced that way. Every NPC saying your name for every little thing is completely ridiculous.

 

[messiaen]

quite the opposite, I live a simpler life, without labeling eveyrthing.

Whatever you are, your color, sex, sexual options, you're a person to me. What annoys me, is that if we feel offended with everything, we will end up having 3 hour character creation menus, with millions of choices, that shouldnt even be an issue.

Nobody arguing for its inclusion is remotely offended in here. We're simply asking for it to be an option. It is a dated ideology to think there's just two genders. What harm does it do to include 'neither' or 'both' as an option? Absolutely none.

If anything you're the one coming off as offended by being so abrasive and sarcastically dismissive.

If you don't care about who's representing you in your games, there's almost always a randomize option. But please, don't speak as if you're speaking on behalf of all gamers everywhere.

 

[ricardo_sousa11]

PSA: Read this before you read the below: I'm NOT accusing YOU of anything.


The most racist people I know constantly say that they don't see color. I only bring this up to show that we shouldn't try to detach people - colorblindness (and its analogue in different contexts) creates a society that denies negative experiences of marginalized or minority groups, rejects their cultural heritage, and invalidates their unique perspectives.

People should live life as they like, and be happy with any choice they make, and express your uniqueness in whatever way you see fit. But its ridiculous that we "demand" to see it in everything. We're all so unique, in our own way, that it would be impossible to have a perfect avatar for everyone.

Im not against having the choice other than mael/female, but im against the fact that this is an issue in todays time, we shouldnt be caring so much, why do we feel the need for a game (singleplayer) to have very very specific details about our real life personality?

 

[Brawly Likes to Brawl]

I can't

I can't even do this thread right now

good for those of you in here

Take a shot for every single shitty smug response you see in here and you won't survive.

 

[Spring-Loaded]

That's not a solution at all if it's going to be forced that way. Every NPC saying your name for every little thing is completely ridiculous.

How often do the NPCs refer to you indirectly in a given game? Last Pokémon game I played was Gold/Silver, and most dialogue is being said directly to you.

People should live life as they like, and be happy with any choice they make, and express your uniqueness in whatever way you see fit. But its ridiculous that we "demand" to see it in everything. We're all so unique, in our own way, that it would be impossible to have a perfect avatar for everyone.

Im not against having the choice other than mael/female, but im against the fact that this is an issue in todays time, we shouldnt be caring so much, why do we feel the need for a game (singleplayer) to have very very specific details about our real life personality?

How is anyone demanding that GameFreak add/change anything in this thread? Who in this thread has send a formal email with their demands listed out, and added an ultimatum of what bad thing will happen if their demands aren't met?

How is this anymore out-there than people saying what QoL improvements they want to see in the series?

 

[Brandon F]

I mostly presume the choice ONLY exists to afford the NPC scripting dialogue to acclimate properly to your chosen gender, as it is a game where everyone talks exclusively at the player character afterall. Looking beyond that is merely looking for controversy when none was intended.

 

[DedValve]

What if Im an Transgender moonlight elf with dark blue skin ?

I dont feel included in society Games dont give me that option

This is ridiculous, this time and age is so so ridiculous, every-single-thing is either racist/sexist or offensive.

1) Your acting like a massive asshole and are being incredibly offensive
2) Please list the posts of people actually being offended at pokemon having only boy/girl option. I will eat the greatest and biggest of crows. Trust me this crow is HUGE.
3) Just because people are calmly asking if pokemon should have more inclusive options that doesn't give you the right to act like an intolerant child (((((((
4) Stop being offended at no one else being offended at your perception of them being offended. Everyone who criticizes "PC culture" is a fucking paradox.

But you know what these threads usually delve into "those people aren't really offended but I feel offended so I'm offended at my perception of their offense because I've been offended by their lack of offense. If you can't follow the last sentence then go back and read any thread that dares, dares ask for any type of inclusivity.

Back to the option I think just giving us a character creator and having the professor ask us "what do you look like" could be a good option. I'm glad I at least get to change skin color again, was stupid af to remove it in ORAS and made zero sense.

Also never thought about the slider in Saints Row, I remember another CC having a slider too. I think Dark souls does something similar? You set a gender but can them turn a few sliders to make certain (or the whole body) more masculine/feminine.

 

[UncleSporky]

I was asking seriously, but - and I know this is a dangerous thing to suspect, but I really think it probably is true - that what I got as an answer was a parody site. It lists:
- Caelgender: a gender which shares qualities with outer space or has the aesthetic of space, stars, nebulas, etc.
- Autigender: a gender that can only be understood in the context of being autistic
- Espigender: a gender that is related to being a spirit or exists on a higher or extradimensional plane
- Glassgender: a gender that is very sensitive and fragile
- Magigender: a gender that is mostly gender and the rest is something else

Just to cite some of the most unbelievable ones. I really cannot imagine this is meant seriously and if not being linked to by a NeoGAF user, I would be absolutely convinced that this was a parody set up by people really despising transgender people. I will ask only once and take the answer for granted, so please be truthful: Is this really, actually, a serious list of genders that are thought of being legitimate genders one may indentify with? This list includes genders that, to identify someone else with, require claiming some supernatural stuff exists...

Yeah, that site really seems like it's mocking the entire concept. People should check their sources before linking stuff like this.

 

[Qurupeke]

I'm glad you can pick a gender and change your appearance... They seem to really like introducing new features, only to cut them from the next games..

 

[DNAbro]

I'm not expecting Pokemon to a bastion of progressiveness especially with something like gender identity. Most games don't offer more than binary gender choices, so this is wider issue than Pokemon. Though other than allowing gender neutral clothing options or letting everyone wear whatever no matter the gender, I don't ever really expect anything to be done on this front.

 

[PBY]

People should live life as they like, and be happy with any choice they make, and express your uniqueness in whatever way you see fit. But its ridiculous that we "demand" to see it in everything. We're all so unique, in our own way, that it would be impossible to have a perfect avatar for everyone.

Im not against having the choice other than mael/female, but im against the fact that this is an issue in todays time, we shouldnt be caring so much, why do we feel the need for a game (singleplayer) to have very very specific details about our real life personality?

You might not care, but there are a ton of marginalized groups that suffer significantly from widespread misunderstanding, where even small changes like this can have a huge impact. Given that these groups do not typically make up a majority - its up to consumers to be vocal in their support for where they want the industry to go.

Your argument basically is "I just don't care" - and that's honestly fine, if not disappointing. But why does it bother you that others are trying to make positive changes? You don't have to participate, just don't stifle others who are trying to have a productive discussion.

 

[royox]

It's easy to replace he/she with the character name in most situations (if not all) though.

So, for example "Wow! He beat the Elite 4! He is totally gonna be the Pokemon Champion!"

Can just become "Wow! [name] beat the Elite 4! [name] is totally gonna be the Pokemon Champion!"

Even if the speech may feel a bit forced by doing it like this, it does removes that headache, per say

This only work with english. In every romanic language a lot of words are diferent based on the gender of the person you are refering. For example in spanish "Champion" can be Campeón for guy and Campeona for girl. Even we have masc/fem articles and masc/fem adjectives.

 

[Camwi]

quite the opposite, I live a simpler life, without labeling eveyrthing.

Whatever you are, your color, sex, sexual options, you're a person to me. What annoys me, is that if we feel offended with everything, we will end up having 3 hour character creation menus, with millions of choices, that shouldnt even be an issue.

If I remember correclty, we're all born male/female, everything else is due to our personality/choices, why do we need a game so specific that we feel the need to have such specific choices ? It makes absolutely no sense, this isnt a life changing decision, its a game....

You keep using that word, but the only people that seem to be offended are people like yourself that are offended that this subject was even brought up.

People are just wondering if games nowadays should have more options to keep up with the changing society. It's a conversation.

How is anyone demanding that GameFreak add/change anything in this thread? Who in this thread has send a formal email with their demands listed out, and added an ultimatum of what bad thing will happen if their demands aren't met?

How is this anymore out-there than people saying what QoL improvements they want to see in the series?

That's another word that keeps getting thrown around incorrectly. How many threads do we see asking "What kind of changes would you like to see in the next <X> sequel?" You don't see people in those threads saying "How DARE you demand these things from the developers?!"

 

[shandy706]

Just needs a character creator and they're set.

I don't really care what race/color/gender I play as. Nothing wrong with options though.

I don't identify in any way with being female, but I love playing as a female character.

 

[Henkka]

Yeah, that site really seems like it's mocking the entire concept. People should check their sources before linking stuff like this.

I'm pretty sure it's not. People seem to be contacting that page with serious asks. Here's another list that's a bit more grounded: http://nonbinary.org/wiki/List_of_nonbinary_identities

I can't say I understand much of this myself, tbh.

 

[SturokBGD]

Interesting question. I saw how disappointed my daughter was recently when she found the original Blue/Red/Yellow games on VC didn't even have the boy/girl option and forced you to play as a boy so it's easy to see why someone would feel excluded.

Not locking customisation options behind a specific gender is definitely a step in the right direction but I wouldn't say Saints Row 2 was made with the intention of being progressive, it offered these options so you could create something to laugh at. Not really a good example.

 

[Phu]

That's not a solution at all if it's going to be forced that way. Every NPC saying your name for every little thing is completely ridiculous.

Just have 'singular they'. It's simple and applies to anyone. Leave it up to the player to insert their identity since it ultimately doesn't matter for the gameplay or story in Pokemon games. Heck, I'm not even sure how often the games use pronouns to refer to the MC. If they use 'they' and allow everyone to wear all clothes than at least it's not imposing on anyone.

 

[Zolo]

Yeah, that site really seems like it's mocking the entire concept. People should check their sources before linking stuff like this.

People seem to be using it on there for serious situations, so I figured it reliable: http://genderfluidsupport.tumblr.com/ There's the main page for those curious.

 

[GiantBreadbug]

Yeah but the whole industry is (but that's no excuse). For now there's no reason to be outraged I guess since nearly every game has a lack of gender options beyond male and female.

 

[Forkball]

Why do you think that's a ridiculous thing to want in a game?

You can certainly pretend your character is a black male transgendered lesbian, but is this a reasonable thing to expect to be outright stated by characters in a Pokemon game? I understand and emphasize with the desire for your race/religion/sex/gender/etc to be represented in a game, but we should also temper our expectations, especially for games aimed at children. Gender is a very complex issue and I'm not sure if we should be looking at Pokemon to make huge strides to bringing awareness to the general public.

If you were to ask most people "How many genders are there?" they would probably say "Two" or "What's the difference between sex and gender?" Many people don't even know what transgendered means. People should definitely make efforts to educate others about tolerance towards the myraid of genders out there, but we also have to understand that the vast majority of people are completely ignorant about the subject, and whether or not the best way to do introduce the concept of more than two genders is via Pokemon.

Really people are just arguing semantics. SPLATOON:

Is this significantly better than what Pokemon offers? It essentially serves the same function: choosing an avatar. Is how Pokemon does it more egregious than Splatoon?