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[Aztechnology]

Huh. I am confused now. Which is better now RGB or YUV in 2160p? Why did they add YUV option for 2160p if it is an old tech.

Sorry my information was not entirely correct, I was thinking of a different color space/conversion and analog sources where it was originally created for due to bandwidth limitations.

I completely messed up there and you should ignore my original comment. While it wasn't entirely wrong it was very misleading.

Essentially what we are talking about here is the technique used to replicate colors and luminosity on a device.

When you hear Chroma Subsambling it's referring to the value you see there 420. Is 4:2:0 chroma subsambling which is a method of compression to attempt to recreate the color space on a more limited bandwidth.

I think. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. I'd like to know if I have the wrong information.

Take a look at this to understand what's going on a little better and what those values mean.

https://youtu.be/7JYZDnenaGc

 

[cb1115]

2160p RGB should give you the clearest, lossless colour output from games.

See here about chroma subsampling: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chroma_subsampling
Keep in mind pretty much all consumer video content is compressed like this and the downgrade in picture is less perceptible at higher resolutions.

YUV420 might be useful if (like me) you have an older 2160p60 monitor with only an HDMI 1.4 port available, allowing you to pass lossy 2160p 60Hz video from the PS4 Pro via the older HDMI standard which had less bandwidth.

wait, so is there a difference between HDMI 2.0 and HDMI 2.0 Full Bandwidth? rtings says my TV doesn't have Full Bandwidth, but the official spec sheet from Samsung says my TV is HDMI 2.0.

wat

 

[PLASTICA-MAN]

Sorry my information was not entirely correct, I was thinking of a different color space/conversion and analog sources where it was originally created for due to bandwidth limitations.

I completely messed up there and you should ignore my original comment. While it wasn't entirely wrong it was very misleading.

Essentially what we are talking about here is the technique used to replicate colors and luminosity on a device.

When you hear Chroma Subsambling it's referring to the value you see there 420. Is 4:2:0 chroma subsambling which is a method of compression to attempt to recreate the color space on a more limited bandwidth.

I think. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. I'd like to know if I have the wrong information.

Take a look at this to understand what's going on a little better and what those values mean.

https://youtu.be/7JYZDnenaGc

Hmm. So YUV420 is Chroma 4:2:0 while YUV444 is Chroma 4:4:4? So 2160p RGB is the way to go if you have a TV that can run 4:4:4 in 4K?

 

[Aztechnology]

Hmm. So YUV420 is Chroma 4:2:0 while YUV444 is Chroma 4:4:4? So 2160p RGB is the way to go if you have a TV that can run 4:4:4 in 4K?

That's my recommendation yes. But YUV 444 is still really good. RGB is usually what the original creator of content had in mind as most modern media is created in that space.

I am curious if someone can tell me though, 4k 4:2:0 is essentially the same as 1080 4:4:4 right? So essentially that's what's happening when 1080p is up scaled to 4k correct?

 

[visiblemode]

Agree with many here about launch PS4 volume. My wife literally thought I was vacuuming a few weeks back. So, praying this will be more quiet.

 

[Gamerman1]

Agree with many here about launch PS4 volume. My wife literally thought I was vacuuming a few weeks back. So, praying this will be more quiet.

Yeah mine gets on my nerves even wit headphones on. I replaced the thermal paste AND cut a round circle on the bottom right underneath the fan and put a nice flush honeycomb fan grill over the hole with rubber grommets. Looks nice. Yet that direct path of cold air from my AC set at 73 to the fan doesn't do shit for the noise.

 

[molnizzle]

Agree with many here about launch PS4 volume. My wife literally thought I was vacuuming a few weeks back. So, praying this will be more quiet.

Same. Was unbearable from day one. I replaced it with a slim which has been waaaaaay better. I'm in no hurry to move on from the slim if the Pro is loud again.

 

[Fisty]

Add mine to the pile of not-really-loud PS4s. I think it wound up real good once during the prologue of The Evil Within at launch, prepatch. Other than that though it's been quiet. Uncharted 4 didn't even phase it.

 

[hollerphonix]

Loudness wise my launch one got loud with a few games notable offer services was ether one which I saw a ton of complaints related to
and for awhile it was a but dusty now that it's been cleaned out its been super quiet.
Here's hoping that any design changes help the pro stay quiet

 

[visiblemode]

Yeah mine gets on my nerves even wit headphones on. I replaced the thermal paste AND cut a round circle on the bottom right underneath the fan and put a nice flush honeycomb fan grill over the hole with rubber grommets. Looks nice. Yet that direct path of cold air from my AC set at 73 to the fan doesn't do shit for the noise.

Wow, man. I thought of doing something really similar. Glad I didn't bother. I ended up trading it toward the Pro for that reason, rather than keeping it as a second PS4.

Edit: I will add, that I adored it anyway. Even though I could literally hear it over my headphones at high volume.

 

[Slaythe]

See his Twitter answer:

I was debating cancelling after all those people claiming how incredible HDr is while I don't have a 4K TV and HDR (and won't for years since I play on extremely low latency monitor...) .

But this just confirmed me getting one.

If it's a lie it's getting sent back though.

 

[Trace]

My launch PS4 only got loud reading disks, playing games it never got too loud unless I was playing a game for 4+ hours at a time.

 

[Luigiv]

Guy has a metal rack as a shelf? The fuck?

Looks like retail shelving.

 

[MindGamingMantis]

That video isn't worth watching. What was the point? "Hey, here's a video of my tv screen for 30 seconds."

 

[kyser73]

So do all the interior design pundits in this thread pay attention to the wallpaper & furnishings when watching amateur porn?

 

[DBT85]

I was debating cancelling after all those people claiming how incredible HDr is while I don't have a 4K TV and HDR (and won't for years since I play on extremely low latency monitor...) .

But this just confirmed me getting one.

If it's a lie it's getting sent back though.

As always there's also an element of luck involved. Not every chip will run at the same voltage so one that needs more will run hotter meaning the HSF has more work to do. In addition, a crappy blob of thermal paste will hinder things too

 

[Head.spawn]

The guy got it from Walmart https://twitter.com/JuniperMaxRoth/status/793964467688087553?s=09

Entirety of the Internet headed to Walmart en masse.

 

[shungokusatsu]

Won't Walmart computers stop the sale?

 

[Darklor01]

Won't Walmart computers stop the sale?

Yes. But a manager can ring through the item as misc. for the price manually if they don't care or don't know better and just want to ring the sale through.

 

[PLASTICA-MAN]

Huh. 4.05 by default?

 

[Persona7]

See his Twitter answer:

I remember people saying the PS4 was "whisper quiet" before I bought one. Fucking lies.

 

[interfreak]

Huh. 4.05 by default?

Nope, that's what it gets you to update to.

 

[DangerMouse]

All I really care is that it plays games in 4K + HDR.

I downloaded some Samsung HDR clips to a USB last night and now even 4K looks bland. I can't wait.

Nice! Yeah, I remember downloading clips like those when I first got my TV, they are gorgeous
Still download the new ones that pop up due to that too.

 

[HitCtrlAltDel]

That's my recommendation yes. But YUV 444 is still really good. RGB is usually what the original creator of content had in mind as most modern media is created in that space.

I am curious if someone can tell me though, 4k 4:2:0 is essentially the same as 1080 4:4:4 right? So essentially that's what's happening when 1080p is up scaled to 4k correct?

4K 4:2:0 is absolutely nothing like 1080p 4:4:4 upscaled.

4K and 1080p obviously refer to the resolutions of the signals; 3840x2160 and 1920x1080 respectively. Each pixel of this signal should have three components. RGB (Red, Green Blue) is a standard way, but there is another, YCrCb. In YCrCb each pixel has three channels like RGB, but they are Luminance and two Color channels. Ideally these channels are delivered with a full sample of data per channel per pixel. This is not always the case...

Subsampling is the reduction of this data to compress the video signal and require less bandwidth to transmit. 4:4:4, 4:2:2 or 4:2:0 are references to what kind of subsampling is happening. The ratio is described by three numbers each describing the number of samples in a pixel area X pixels wide and 2 pixels tall. The first number describes the number of pixels wide we are referring to, in this case it is always 4. The next two numbers describe the number of samples taken. The first of these is the number of samples in the first row of pixels. The second is the number of differences between the first and second row of pixels. So it is (number of pixels wide)samples in first row)differences between first and second row)

Luminance is always transmitted at a full sampling rate and is never compressed.

So for 4:4:4 we have an area of 4x2 pixels. There are 4 samples taken for the first row, and the second row has 4 different pixels below the first row. This is describing uncompressed video since all eight pixels are unique.

4:2:2 again describes a region of 4x2 pixels. There are 2 unique chroma samples in the first row, and 2 changes between the first and second row. This is describing a halving of the horizontal chroma resolution since we only end up with four unique color samples for this 4x2 region.

4:2:0 also describes a region of 4x2. There are 2 unique chroma samples in the first row of pixels and no changes between the first and second row. This leaves us with 2 unique chroma samples in the 4x2 region so this is describing a halving of the vertical and horizonal color information.

Wikipedia is does a good job with pictures.

TLDR: 4K and 1080p always transmit the resolution video they are describing, however, the color information can be compressed (luminance is not). 4:4:4 is uncompressed video. 4:2:0 is compressed video (has 1/4 the color information).

 

[cripterion]

I swear a whole bunch of you guys must play videogames inside a sound-amplifying box.

Never buy a gaming PC!

My pc is quieter than my PS4, much more..

 

[SilverArrow20XX]

Been extensively using my launch PS4 since day 1. Whisper quiet. Also work on a PS4, surrounded by hundreds of more PS4s, and they're all quiet too. My fat PS3 was much louder and ran hotter too.

 

[SlickShoes]

Been extensively using my launch PS4 since day 1. Whisper quiet. Also work on a PS4, surrounded by hundreds of more PS4s, and they're all quiet too. My fat PS3 was much louder and ran hotter too.

I've had 3 PS4's since launch and one of them was like a hairdryer, one of them was silent and the final one is somewhere in between but mostly very quiet.

None of my friends believed me when I was complaining about how noisy my PS4 was until they were over at a party one day and I put a game on, i was like someone was hoovering the room.

 

[Dragon Puncher]

Considering he's saying it's quite while playing Uncharted 4, one of the worst offenders in terms of making the OG PS4 go jet engine, it sounds like its at least a bit better than before.

 

[Aztechnology]

4K 4:2:0 is absolutely nothing like 1080p 4:4:4 upscaled.

4K and 1080p obviously refer to the resolutions of the signals; 3840x2160 and 1920x1080 respectively. Each pixel of this signal should have three components. RGB (Red, Green Blue) is a standard way, but there is another, YCrCb. In YCrCb each pixel has three channels like RGB, but they are Luminance and two Color channels. Ideally these channels are delivered with a full sample of data per channel per pixel. This is not always the case...

Subsampling is the reduction of this data to compress the video signal and require less bandwidth to transmit. 4:4:4, 4:2:2 or 4:2:0 are references to what kind of subsampling is happening. The ratio is described by three numbers each describing the number of samples in a pixel area X pixels wide and 2 pixels tall. The first number describes the number of pixels wide we are referring to, in this case it is always 4. The next two numbers describe the number of samples taken. The first of these is the number of samples in the first row of pixels. The second is the number of differences between the first and second row of pixels. So it is (number of pixels wide)samples in first row)differences between first and second row)

Luminance is always transmitted at a full sampling rate and is never compressed.

So for 4:4:4 we have an area of 4x2 pixels. There are 4 samples taken for the first row, and the second row has 4 different pixels below the first row. This is describing uncompressed video since all eight pixels are unique.

4:2:2 again describes a region of 4x2 pixels. There are 2 unique chroma samples in the first row, and 2 changes between the first and second row. This is describing a halving of the horizontal chroma resolution since we only end up with four unique color samples for this 4x2 region.

4:2:0 also describes a region of 4x2. There are 2 unique chroma samples in the first row of pixels and no changes between the first and second row. This leaves us with 2 unique chroma samples in the 4x2 region so this is describing a halving of the vertical and horizonal color information.

Wikipedia is does a good job with pictures.

TLDR: 4K and 1080p always transmit the resolution video they are describing, however, the color information can be compressed (luminance is not). 4:4:4 is uncompressed video. 4:2:0 is compressed video (has 1/4 the color information).

Sorry I wasn't clear. I understand everything you're saying and even posted explaining as much.

Essentially what we are talking about here is the technique used to replicate colors and luminosity on a device.

When you hear Chroma Subsambling it's referring to the value you see there 420. Is 4:2:0 chroma subsambling which is a method of compression to attempt to recreate the color space on a more limited bandwidth.

I think. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. I'd like to know if I have the wrong information.

Take a look at this to understand what's going on a little better and what those values mean.

https://youtu.be/7JYZDnenaGc

I guess what I meant to say was if you have a 1080p 4:4:4 source on a 4k TV and it's being upscaled, is it essentially rendering the color space at 4k 4:2:0? since it's taking four pixels and allocating it to each single pixel previously? Or is my logic just silly and I'm way off?

 

[JetBlackPanda]

I need to know how quite this thing is. It's a top priority.

 

[TLZ]

It's fair to be skeptical since initial was a thing with the PS3 and OG PS4.

Then why ask?

 

[DieH@rd]

Been extensively using my launch PS4 since day 1. Whisper quiet. Also work on a PS4, surrounded by hundreds of more PS4s, and they're all quiet too. My fat PS3 was much louder and ran hotter too.

That's also my experience. In some games it gets lauder, but my old PS3 Slim was always lauder than it.

If PS4 Pro is even quieter that will be great in my book.

 

[TLZ]

A 4K signal going through the PSVR box is delivered as YUV420 only, so i am assuming it is like a non HDR version maybe.

2160p RGB should give you the clearest, lossless colour output from games.

See here about chroma subsampling: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chroma_subsampling
Keep in mind pretty much all consumer video content is compressed like this and the downgrade in picture is less perceptible at higher resolutions.

YUV420 might be useful if (like me) you have an older 2160p60 monitor with only an HDMI 1.4 port available, allowing you to pass lossy 2160p 60Hz video from the PS4 Pro via the older HDMI standard which had less bandwidth.

YUV420 is a different encoding methods for color spaces, YUV also tends to be more compressed as that was essentially what it was designed for (broadcasts and video that needs to reduce bandwidth.)

RGB uses 3 color values from 0-255 to create colors, while YUV is analog color space uses gamma and chroma color settings to recreate the colors.

Roughly:

At 4K, RGB will be 8bits per channel due to HDMI bandwidth limits whereas YUV will be 10 or 12 bits per channel (ideal for HDR - but not technically required).

However YUV will be lower resolution chroma data (luminance is always full res).

YUV420 is half res chroma both horizontally and vertically,
YUV422 is half res chroma horizontally.
YUV444 would be full res chroma (for 1080p)

Not all TVs support YUV422.

You guys haven't confused me, at all.

 

[Pancakes R Us]

Guy has a metal rack as a shelf? The fuck?

Hah, this made me laugh.

 

[michaelius]

How do we know RGB is ful 4:4:4 ?

 

[HonMirin]

Are the older versions called PS4 Amateur now? PS4 Ama?

I've been calling mine PS4 Classic to distinguish. Doesn't have as much weight to be called PS4 Phat I suppose.

 

[Hoo-doo]

You'd think this board would care about how the games looked or played, not page after page of concern about how much noise it produces.
Christ, this has truly become an obsession for some just because there's this huge spotlight on the issue. I never remember anyone caring a whole lot that the Xbox 360 was loud as fuck - it played great games.

 

[FlutterPuffs]

You'd think this board would care about how the games looked or played, not page after page of concern about how much noise it produces.
Christ, this has truly become an obsession for some just because there's this huge spotlight on the issue. I never remember anyone caring a whole lot that the Xbox 360 was loud as fuck - it played great games.

Well, most patches are not yet out for Pro-enabled games.

Also my first gen PS4 is so loud that it actually disturbs me while I'm playing, so excuse some of us who think it's something interesting to talk about.

 

[Hasney]

Add mine to the pile of not-really-loud PS4s. I think it wound up real good once during the prologue of The Evil Within at launch, prepatch. Other than that though it's been quiet. Uncharted 4 didn't even phase it.

Same, my launch model is whisper quiet, even when I put it in a little confined space for streaming.

 

[Darklor01]

My pc is quieter than my PS4, much more..

Same.

 

[Bad_Boy]

Not sure if already posted.

He uploaded some UC4 1080p capture from the pro.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCC5KrVU7EoHs4K2xfz7heuw

Spoiler

yep, that looks like UC4

 

[Aztechnology]

You guys haven't confused me, at all.

Ignore that post from me, I corrected myself shortly after, didn't edit that.

Lord Pie is the one you should reference here.

Watch this, no longer be confused.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JYZDnenaGc

But RGB is the color space that is "reference" for all intents and purposes, it's what is typically used as the standard for media creation.

 

[barit]

My Launch PS4 was always fine with noise. You could always tell when it switched through the three fan speeds. The first one is whisper quiet after powering it up or idling in the XMB. To second speed starts when playing games that are mostly 30fps titles. The third speed is the loudest and probably what many people mean when they say their PS4 sounds like a vacuum cleaner. It happens often when playing 60fps or very graphical intensive games. If your PS4 starts instantly in third fan speed mode then it's very possible you've a faulty or dusty console (yes cleaning can help alot too).

To get a real confirmation about noise level the guy with the Pro should test a 60fps game like for example UC4 MP

 

[DJmizuhara]

PS4Pro unboxing by Glenn from PSnation

 

[ValfarHL]

See his Twitter answer:

Yeah, but are there any PS4 pro games available yet?
Regular PS4 games only uses about 50% of the GPU, so it will get hotter and louder playing games that's patched to use all that powa.

 

[mrklaw]

Well, most patches are not yet out for Pro-enabled games.

Also my first gen PS4 is so loud that it actually disturbs me while I'm playing, so excuse some of us who think it's something interesting to talk about.

Has he played any 4K games? Because if he's only playing PS4 games non-patched doesn't the pro shut down half the GPU for compatibility reasons? That would create a lot less heat and therefore be a lot quieter than when playing with the full GPU running

 

[Fliesen]

Consoles are usually quiet and cool when they're new. Both my phat and slim PS3 were whisper quiet once. Once.

Well, thankfully(?) mine was a jet engine the moment i booted up Infamous Second Son.

RotTR and Uncharted should be great benchmarks for thermals, seeing as even TLoU remastered makes my PS4 go pretty loud - so i don't think ND shies away from pushing the hardware to its limit.

 

[Breakfast at Noon]

I remember people saying the PS4 was "whisper quiet" before I bought one. Fucking lies.

It is though.
Just after a while the thermal paste fucks up and it starts getting loud, changed my launch paste the other day and it is silent again.

 

[BigTnaples]

I remember people saying the PS4 was "whisper quiet" before I bought one. Fucking lies.

They are for the most part. I've had a couple and they've been whisper quiet. But my buddies has been quite loud since he got it. I assume it's the thermal paste.

 

[User123456]

I swear a whole bunch of you guys must play videogames inside a sound-amplifying box.

Never buy a gaming PC!

My PC is several orders of magnitude superior to my PS4 slim both in power and in acoustics.

It is also, however, several orders of magnitude inferior in cost and size (even considering the micro-ATX case).

I'm also worried about the acoustic and thermal aspects of the PS4 Pro, but I'll probably just buy one and give it a whirl, and return it if it's really bad.