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[PolishQ]

For the new page:

I think we all agree that Dolores' perception is screwed up, and that she does sporadically "flash back" to prior events (i.e. The Church). But these flashbacks are just that - flashes. She's only able to access past memories very briefly and in fragments, and when she does it leaves her visibly shaken and confused. She wouldn't be able to remember a sustained sequence of events like her adventure with William. Hence it must be occurring in the present.

 

[Joni]

Dolores doesn't need to flashback for us to see the William story in the past. It might not be something she sees in her end, it is two parallel timelines we are seeing in total.

 

[duckroll]

Is there anything necessarily special about the gun as a gun, or is it simply a trigger for Dolores to remember who she was before? Interestingly enough, episode 3 laid out an interesting detail - there's *new* policy from QA that mandates very strict weapon privilege settings for hosts. The woodcutter in the camp was the only one authorized to use an axe, and the rest of the camp "couldn't even touch it" according to Elsie. In the same episode we see Teddy teaching Dolores to shoot, but she just "can't" pull the trigger.

At the end of the episode when she hears Arnold say "kill him" she can shoot and kill the other host. This seems like a huge deal if she indeed fired a weapon without having the permissions to do so. Considering how uptight QA is about stuff like that, you would think there would be an immediate recall, regardless if she's with a guest or not. Somehow this is never mentioned again in the subsequent episodes, and she has killed even more people now. She doesn't have problems with permissions any longer, no one is looking to pull her to check why she is able to use weapons? Really? Especially with all the other fuck ups going on at the park lately?

There's been critique that there can't be another time period being shown because that would be "bad writing" or violate "storytelling 101" or whatever. I think if this wasn't happening in the past, that would be pretty bad writing too. You introduce a concept for the setting in an episode and make a big deal about it, and then after having the main character violate the rules of that concept, you ignore it completely for the next couple of episodes?

 

[Veritigo_X]

Is there anything necessarily special about the gun as a gun, or is it simply a trigger for Dolores to remember who she was before? Interestingly enough, episode 3 laid out an interesting detail - there's *new* policy from QA that mandates very strict weapon privilege settings for hosts. The woodcutter in the camp was the only one authorized to use an axe, and the rest of the camp "couldn't even touch it" according to Elsie. In the same episode we see Teddy teaching Dolores to shoot, but she just "can't" pull the trigger.

I thought the weapon privileges were just for melee weapons? Maybe I'm remembering wrong, but it would make sense since the guns already have safeguards built in.

I think Dolores couldn't pull the trigger because it wasn't in her character programming to do so.

 

[ZOONAMI]

Is there anything necessarily special about the gun as a gun, or is it simply a trigger for Dolores to remember who she was before? Interestingly enough, episode 3 laid out an interesting detail - there's *new* policy from QA that mandates very strict weapon privilege settings for hosts. The woodcutter in the camp was the only one authorized to use an axe, and the rest of the camp "couldn't even touch it" according to Elsie. In the same episode we see Teddy teaching Dolores to shoot, but she just "can't" pull the trigger.

At the end of the episode when she hears Arnold say "kill him" she can shoot and kill the other host. This seems like a huge deal if she indeed fired a weapon without having the permissions to do so. Considering how uptight QA is about stuff like that, you would think there would be an immediate recall, regardless if she's with a guest or not. Somehow this is never mentioned again in the subsequent episodes, and she has killed even more people now. She doesn't have problems with permissions any longer, no one is looking to pull her to check why she is able to use weapons? Really? Especially with all the other fuck ups going on at the park lately?

There's been critique that there can't be another time period being shown because that would be "bad writing" or violate "storytelling 101" or whatever. I think if this wasn't happening in the past, that would be pretty bad writing too. You introduce a concept for the setting in an episode and make a big deal about it, and then after having the main character violate the rules of that concept, you ignore it completely for the next couple of episodes?

There would undoubtedly be stricter permissions and monitoring on blades/blunt weapons as the guns have simunitions and would be less likely to be lethal to a guest. I suppose it could be used as a blunt weapon, but so could a brick or a rock.

Stubbs did flag her to be pulled for being off loop and we are lead to believe they do try to pull her but don't because she's with a guest.

Ford also did analysis on her in Pariah, but left her alone because she lied to him and was with guests. If we can somewhat reliably believe anything we are seeing anyway.

Also, just because we know that permissions exist doesn't mean they are closely monitoring if those permissions are broken. The permissions are there to protect the guests, and if a permission is broken they may not know about it unless a guest gets hurt. If there are monitoring if a permission gets broken in real time I would think the focus would be on blunt/bladed weapons and not guns with simunitions.

 

[gforguava]

Dolores is an unreliable narrator and the gun is actually there but she just doesn't see it. She sort of glitches into years of a reinforced loop where there is no gun.

She also glitches into seeing the repeated loop of her being shot in her stomach before it actually happens, and is able to avoid that scenario. These eperiences make her go all wonky and stumble off the ranch and into Williams camp.

When she is listening and having converstations with a voice in her head she also blanks out he surroundings, thus william and Logan disappearing from the frame in the graveyard and william asking if she was talking to herself, and also her being alone in the train.

An alt timeline theory for the above is way more convoluted and betrays the actual sequence of scenes shown to the audience.

The gun triggers a memory of the MiB, presumably from the first episode. She shouldn't be able to remember this. We don't know the significance of his "start at the beginning" line yet. It probably has to do with what Arnold planted in her back in the early days ("beginning") of the park.

Dolores has not fully awoken yet, so her "normal" programming takes over at this point and she cannot see the gun any more. It's an object that shouldn't be there, so her programming glosses over it. She goes about her day.

See to me all of this is unfounded(which I assume everyone anti-theory thinks the same of that). We've never seen the Hosts unable to see objects that they shouldn't, all we've seen is them remembering things from past 'loops' and hearing voices. Whenever their memories have come back and they get all confused they've been shown to have no programming safeguards in place, they all just experience it. To the point that Maeve is aware there is a bullet in her and goes about getting it out.
Her dad saw that photograph, Maeve has her drawings, neither of them were stopped from seeing them by some type of programming. And only when they are 'reset' do they lose their memories but Dolores finds the gun in her dresser and then immediately blanks it out? Nothing like that has happened before.

I'm also 99% sure there isn't a flashback to mib right when she opens the drawer and the gun is there. It was just like a quick auto correct, I remember rewinding that scene because I was like where did the gun go, and I don't remember a flashback to mib right there. What episode was that?

There is, near the beginning of episode 3.

This is the first time we see the gun after she initially digs it up. The gun still has some dirt on it (it's not "old and rusty").

That gun is definitely way more weathered than just being covered in dirt.

It seems super obvious(there's that word again) that Dolores' trip with William will end with her coming home and burying her gun just for her future self to find it later.

I think we all agree that Dolores' perception is screwed up, and that she does sporadically "flash back" to prior events (i.e. The Church). But these flashbacks are just that - flashes. She's only able to access past memories very briefly and in fragments, and when she does it leaves her visibly shaken and confused. It doesn't make sense that she would be able to remember a sustained sequence of events like her adventure with William.

I think it makes perfect sense as she finally overcomes one aspect of programming, namely going from being unable to defend herself(Teddy tries to teach her to shoot but she can't pull the trigger) to being able to do just that in the barn.

When she is "zoned out" before entering Pariah the voice in her head says "Find me." and she says "Show me how.", she is then in her memories showing her the next leg of her journey with William in Pariah. She is tracing her own footsteps back to that church and, presumably, what happened 30 years ago.

 

[PolishQ]

Is there anything necessarily special about the gun as a gun, or is it simply a trigger for Dolores to remember who she was before? Interestingly enough, episode 3 laid out an interesting detail - there's *new* policy from QA that mandates very strict weapon privilege settings for hosts. The woodcutter in the camp was the only one authorized to use an axe, and the rest of the camp "couldn't even touch it" according to Elsie. In the same episode we see Teddy teaching Dolores to shoot, but she just "can't" pull the trigger.

At the end of the episode when she hears Arnold say "kill him" she can shoot and kill the other host. This seems like a huge deal if she indeed fired a weapon without having the permissions to do so. Considering how uptight QA is about stuff like that, you would think there would be an immediate recall, regardless if she's with a guest or not. Somehow this is never mentioned again in the subsequent episodes, and she has killed even more people now. She doesn't have problems with permissions any longer, no one is looking to pull her to check why she is able to use weapons? Really? Especially with all the other fuck ups going on at the park lately?

There's been critique that there can't be another time period being shown because that would be "bad writing" or violate "storytelling 101" or whatever. I think if this wasn't happening in the past, that would be pretty bad writing too. You introduce a concept for the setting in an episode and make a big deal about it, and then after having the main character violate the rules of that concept, you ignore it completely for the next couple of episodes?

I mean ... it IS a big deal, and they ARE checking on her. Bernard is encouraging the behavior and perhaps hiding it to an extent from the other staff. Ford interviews her, either specifically because of the off-loop / aberrant behavior or because he suspects something is up with her.

The low-level overseer staff seem to only know when a host goes off loop (specifically, when they wander away from their expected location). They didn't know about the hosts stuck at the campsite until they personally inspected the site. They weren't aware of Maeve conducting impromptu surgery on herself with Hector. There are thousands of guests and hosts in the park, with gunshots going off constantly, so I don't see it as a stretch that the low-level staff wouldn't notice what Dolores has been doing. (Note that they DO know she's out of her normal bounds but are allowing it because William is present.)

See to me all of this is unfounded(which I assume everyone anti-theory thinks the same of that). We've never seen the Hosts unable to see objects that they shouldn't, all we've seen is them remembering things from past 'loops' and hearing voices. Whenever their memories have come back and they get all confused they've been shown to have no programming safeguards in place, they all just experience it. To the point that Maeve is aware there is a bullet in her and goes about getting it out.
Her dad saw that photograph, Maeve has her drawings, neither of them were stopped from seeing them by some type of programming. And only when they are 'reset' do they lose their memories but Dolores finds the gun in her dresser and then immediately blanks it out? Nothing like that has happened before.

Sure it has, in episode one. Dolores is not able to see the photograph when Abernathy shows it to her. Well, she sees it, but says twice that "it doesn't look like anything to me." And we've seen that the hosts are programmed to ignore fourth-wall breaking comments from guests, like when the kid tells Dolores that she's not real. These are intentional gaps in their perception.

She is tracing her own footsteps back to that church and, presumably, what happened 30 years ago.

We're agreed on this part, but we disagree about whether William was part of what happened 30 years ago. Arnold is saying "Find me", not William/MiB.

 

[okdakor]

Yes I suppose that is true....but then who is smuggling real guns into Westworld and why?

dun dun dun

Same person who smuggles a picture from the outside to fuck with Abernathy ?

About Abernathy, they said that in a previous loop he was the leader of a cannibalistic cult in the desert... Could it be linked to the story of Wyatt ? When Ford explains the new story elements to Teddy, he says that Wyatt became a murderer who claimed to hear the voice of god, and inspired followers to his cause. Didn't speak about cannibals but...

 

[ZOONAMI]

See to me all of this is unfounded(which I assume everyone anti-theory thinks the same of that). We've never seen the Hosts unable to see objects that they shouldn't, all we've seen is them remembering things from past 'loops' and hearing voices. Whenever their memories have come back and they get all confused they've been shown to have no programming safeguards in place, they all just experience it. To the point that Maeve is aware there is a bullet in her and goes about getting it out.
Her dad saw that photograph, Maeve has her drawings, neither of them were stopped from seeing them by some type of programming. And only when they are 'reset' do they lose their memories but Dolores finds the gun in her dresser and then immediately blanks it out? Nothing like that has happened before.

There is, near the beginning of episode 3.

That gun is definitely way more weathered than just being covered in dirt.

It seems super obvious(there's that word again) that Dolores' trip with William will end with her coming home and burying her gun just for her future self to find it later.

I think it makes perfect sense as she finally overcomes one aspect of programming, namely going from being unable to defend herself(Teddy tries to teach her to shoot but she can't pull the trigger) to being able to do just that in the barn.

When she is "zoned out" before entering Pariah the voice in her head says "Find me." and she says "Show me how.", she is then in her memories showing her the next leg of her journey with William in Pariah. She is tracing her own footsteps back to that church and, presumably, what happened 30 years ago.

Dolores sees something that isn't happening to her as happening (being shot) and is able to course correct. I don't really see how that's different from her not seeing the gun. It's a reverse course correct, and I don't see how that not happening with the other hosts precludes it from happening with Dolores.

A gun being in her drawer is a lot less of a mind fuck as a photograph that makes zero sense or finding a bunch of crazy ass drawings that apparently you yourself put there, so I could see it being easier for Dolores to effectively ignore a gun than it was for Abernathy and Maeve to ignore the photo/drawings.

And yeah with the photo she effectively does ignore the photo, whether she's lying about it or not. There are a lot of hints that Dolores is somewhat unreliable as a narrator, but that doesn't mean all of the hosts also have to be unreliable from a POV perspective.

I don't think all the hosts have to react to everything in the exact same way, and they honestly shouldn't if they are developing their own personalities.

 

[ZOONAMI]

Same person who smuggles a picture from the outside to fuck with Abernathy ?

About Abernathy, they said that in a previous loop he was the leader of a cannibalistic cult in the desert... Could it be linked to the story of Wyatt ? When Ford explains the new story elements to Teddy, he says that Wyatt became a murderer who claimed to hear the voice of god, and inspired followers to his cause. Didn't speak about cannibals but...

Pretty sure that photo was just left there accidentally by a guest.

More likely would be sabotage by the same person who put an implant in the woodcutter and had him smash his own head in.

Dolores seems to sort of sometimes be remote contolled, like when finding the gun, so someone might have put an implant in her that is pushing her to do things that are outside of her programming. Much like the woodcutter.

Or it's latent Arnold programming activated by Ford's reverie update. In either case Dolores is developing sentience alongside whatever else is happening in her head.

 

[okdakor]

Or it's latent Arnold programming activated by Ford's reverie update. In either case Dolores is developing sentience alongside whatever else is happening in her head.

I don't remember clearly, but Dolores started to act different only after her father says the magic phrase ? (Same thing for Maeve I think).
It was Abernathy + reveries + latent Arnold programming + the found picture that started the strange behaviors. "These Violent Delights Have Violent Ends" are maybe part of the latent code...

 

[afternoon delight]

My hope: the maze requires human sacrifice to open Dolores' mind to the idea of revolution and she flays William while the MiB collects his blood.

My bet: something incredibly lame will happen and Ed Harris, Anthony Hopkins, and Jeffrey Wright won't be required for a second season.

 

[Neoweee]

My hope: the maze requires human sacrifice to open Dolores' mind to the idea of revolution and she flays William while the MiB collects his blood.

My bet: something incredibly lame will happen and Ed Harris, Anthony Hopkins, and Jeffrey Wright won't be required for a second season.

I kind of expect Harris or Hopkins to not be in after this season, but at least one will live.

Wright's career isn't that great, so a stable HBO show for half of each year.

Wright is in the show much more than the other two. Hopkins/Harris have kind of skipped around episodes, or only been in 1/2 scenes in some episodes. Feels kind of like how Sheen was originally envisioned in the West Wing (which changed with time).

 

[ZOONAMI]

My hope: the maze requires human sacrifice to open Dolores' mind to the idea of revolution and she flays William while the MiB collects his blood.

My bet: something incredibly lame will happen and Ed Harris, Anthony Hopkins, and Jeffrey Wright won't be required for a second season.

I like the first option here.

 

[Solo]

My guess is that Harris is written out (ie. dies) and that his commitment is one season, while Wright remains a principal cast member for the duration of the show, and Hopkins slides from a series regular to an occasional guest appearance after S1.

What I feel strongest about is no Harris post-S1. He was probably sold on taking it like McConaughey in True Detective. One and done.

 

[duckroll]

I don't see how Ford can survive season 1 and get downgraded to a guest star in subsequent seasons. That would be really silly. Seems more likely that Ford and MiB both die if the actors don't want to commit to multiple seasons. Big if though. I mean the show is popular, and HBO is certainly looking at what Netflix managed to pull off with Kevin Spacey and Robin Wright. As long as they're willing to pay and there's more story for them, I think they could actually stay.

If they don't though, I'm sure the backup plan is to introduce a new storyline in Season 2 where Bernard's life before Westworld catches up with him. Steve Buscemi and Michael K Williams will play new executives on Delos' board after a hostile takeover. They represent the Atlantic City Division's interests, and have some personal grudge against Bernard.

 

[Sunster]

On ep 3 idk why I've been sleeping on this show, loved it from 5 minutes in. 1st episode was maybe the best pilot I've ever seen

 

[PolishQ]

My guess is that Harris is written out (ie. dies) and that his commitment is one season, while Wright remains a principal cast member for the duration of the show, and Hopkins slides from a series regular to an occasional guest appearance after S1.

What I feel strongest about is no Harris post-S1. He was probably sold on taking it like McConaughey in True Detective. One and done.

Agreed. Hopkins is the most up in the air. His arc could be that he goes from being in control and confident to losing control. Either he dies when that happens or he spends the rest of the story trying to wrest control back.

Harris' sole purpose in life is finding the last secret of the park; he'll fulfill that purpose by the end of the season (and probably die).

Bernard and Dolores will have plenty left to do in the story. They're not going anywhere.

 

[Pooya]

Yeah, I said it earlier, I think the show is going to be more of a ensemble cast thing going forward with Bernard, Elsie and several hosts, it already is really. It's pretty much how they handled GOT season 1, Hopkins and Harris are just here to kickstart it and they did so well.

 

[LumpOfCole]

I'd be shocked if Dolores didn't kill MiB in one of the final scenes of the season. Her 'awakening' seems to be what's at the center of the maze and the freedom of being able to taking meaningful retribution is part of that.

I think it's too early to tell what's going to happen to Hopkins though.

 

[Cornballer]

Regard Harris and Hopkins continuing on the show:

Spoiler

Harris stated in an interview: "At some point next year, I’ll probably end up doing season two of Westworld." Link.

This interview with Hopkins says "He's signed up for a second season."

Both of those are flexible enough that they could theoretically not return next year, but it sounds like they'll probably be back in some capacity.

 

[biggersmaller]

Regard Harris and Hopkins continuing on the show:

Spoiler

Harris stated in an interview: "At some point next year, I’ll probably end up doing season two of Westworld." Link.

This interview with Hopkins says "He's signed up for a second season."

Both of those are flexible enough that they could theoretically not return next year, but it sounds like they'll probably be back in some capacity.

Hopkins is so good, but even before the show aired I never expected him to last the duration. I expect another character to be introduced (or existing step-up) and adopt Ford's philosophy of Westworld.

I expect Harris to leave when the MiB dies.

 

[duckroll]

I'd be shocked if Dolores didn't kill MiB in one of the final scenes of the season. Her 'awakening' seems to be what's at the center of the maze and the freedom of being able to taking meaningful retribution is part of that.

I think it's too early to tell what's going to happen to Hopkins though.

The final scene of the season will be Dolores dragging MiB into the barn as Teddy watches.

 

[Matty77]

Regard Harris and Hopkins continuing on the show:

Spoiler

Harris stated in an interview: "At some point next year, I’ll probably end up doing season two of Westworld." Link.

This interview with Hopkins says "He's signed up for a second season."

Both of those are flexible enough that they could theoretically not return next year, but it sounds like they'll probably be back in some capacity.

You always post good links but that interview was something else.

Thanks.

 

[LiquidSword]

One thing I haven't seen discussed, not super important just a detail, is what war is happening? They said the Confederados refused to surrender after the war. Assuming they are talking about the civil war, it must already be over. Could it be a fictional war that the guests can start by fulfilling certain conditions?

 

[duckroll]

One thing I haven't seen discussed, not super important just a detail, is what war is happening? They said the Confederados refused to surrender after the war. Assuming they are talking about the civil war, it must already be over. Could it be a fictional war that the guests can start by fulfilling certain conditions?

I assume Westworld is just set in a fictional western frontier after the civil war. No war is happening.

 

[Solo]

Post-civil war seems about right. 1870 or so.

 

[LiquidSword]

I assume Westworld is just set in a fictional western frontier after the civil war. No war is happening.

I mean some kind of war is happening or going to start. That's the part of the park Logan wanted to get to and they are on a train headed to the "front" as Lawrence said.

 

[ZOONAMI]

I don't see how Ford can survive season 1 and get downgraded to a guest star in subsequent seasons. That would be really silly. Seems more likely that Ford and MiB both die if the actors don't want to commit to multiple seasons. Big if though. I mean the show is popular, and HBO is certainly looking at what Netflix managed to pull off with Kevin Spacey and Robin Wright. As long as they're willing to pay and there's more story for them, I think they could actually stay.

If they don't though, I'm sure the backup plan is to introduce a new storyline in Season 2 where Bernard's life before Westworld catches up with him. Steve Buscemi and Michael K Williams will play new executives on Delos' board after a hostile takeover. They represent the Atlantic City Division's interests, and have some personal grudge against Bernard.

Lol I mentioned earlier Buscemi would be cool on this show. Michael Shannon and Michael K Williams would be a good fit for the western vibe too.

Or yeah they should have another park with a 20s vibe and just have season 2 be an homage to boardwalk empire lol.

Or, boardwalk empire actually was a theme park and we just didn't know it lol.

 

[TheChewyWaffles]

So is this show good?

 

[ZOONAMI]

I assume Westworld is just set in a fictional western frontier after the civil war. No war is happening.

Post-civil war seems about right. 1870 or so.

I mean some kind of war is happening or going to start. That's the part of the park Logan wanted to get to and they are on a train headed to the "front" as Lawrence said.

Yeah there definitely is a "war" of some sort going on. My guess would be either with the natives or the Spanish.

This is actually another peice that might fit into the timeline theory. It seems that Teddy and wyatt were union soldiers and wyatt went nuts, but then that whole backstory is only present in the current timeline, so I don't really know how that peice fits in. It could be that teddy and wyatt fought in this war on a previous timeline, and Ford only newly programmed in the peice about wyatt going nuts.

But it seems like teddy had basically 0 backstory and was just tied to Dolores, so I dunno. Could be that william and Logan encounter wyatt, but just as a union soldier and not some cult leader, and yeah if that happens I'll be full blown on board with the timeline deal. Still won't be certain that mib = william but that would confirm william and Logan are not on a concurrent timeline with the teddy/wyatt current narrative Ford is rolling out.

 

[PolishQ]

I mean some kind of war is happening or going to start. That's the part of the park Logan wanted to get to and they are on a train headed to the "front" as Lawrence said.

Even after the Civil War, there was a large military presence in the frontier territories, essentially waging war against various tribes of Native Americans.

 

[ZOONAMI]

Even after the Civil War, there was a large military presence in the frontier territories, essentially waging war against various tribes of Native Americans.

A frontline sounds more like the Spanish American war though.

 

[PolishQ]

A frontline sounds more like the Spanish American war though.

The Spanish American War mostly happened in Cuba. Spain =/= Mexico.

 

[Veritigo_X]

A frontline sounds more like the Spanish American war though.

The frontlines for the Spanish American war weren't in the American west. It's probably some fictional war.

 

[ZOONAMI]

The Spanish American War mostly happened in Cuba. Spain =/= Mexico.

The frontlines for the Spanish American war weren't in the American west. It's probably some fictional war.

Well right but the Mexican-american war was before the civil war, so yeah it's probably fictional.

Nothing has really been historically accurate as westworld / Sweetwater / Paraih aren't going for complete historical accuracy.

Do they even say mexico ever? Like that mib/Lawrence/dolores/teddy/william are in mexico?

Maybe westworld is on Cuba or puerto Rico lol.

Was just saying it doesn't seem that likely that a war with native Americans would have a front. Sounds more like trenches and artillery, etc.

Edit: it could be the Mexican american war they are sort of reeacting but just being loose with the confederados, etc.

 

[WhiteRabbitEXE]

Regarding Ford, it's "Crichton". He will definitely die horribly at some point down the line. When though, who knows. I could see him making it to the end, especially since Hopkins is so fucking good, so it makes sense to keep him in.

 

[ZOONAMI]

It's weird how this thread seems to light up every morning and then dies by the end of the day (in the us).

 

[WhiteRabbitEXE]

It's weird how this thread seems to light up every morning and then dies by the end of the day (in the us).

It bugs me because that's half the reason I keep getting behind lol. (the other reason is like 6 pages pop up before I'm even done with the episode each week haha)

 

[Dominican Power]

Rachel Wood is so beautiful. I can't stop fawning over her.

 

[SuperStiltzkin]

Are you just ignoring the numerous posts that have tried to explain why Lawrence is El Lazo? The show isn't trying to hide it into some clever twist.

Also, he doesn't look younger. None of the hosts change their age, they're not human.

Haven't seen em, but yes I know Lawrence is El Lazo. But one would assume they just had a duplicate model that they reused.

I know the hosts don't age. that is the crux of my point. Hosts don't age. So saying that William and Logan interacting with the hosts we see in the present timeline does not disprove the two timeline theory as they can easily be present in both timelines with no to few visible changes.

He doesn't look younger. How could he?

By "younger" I mean he has fuller and darker hair and looks less roughed up. I don't mean he is literally younger. They could have changed his appearance 30 years later to fit a new storyline and new role. But I don't think it's a duplicate that just so happens to look like him. Lawrence is El Lazo before he became El Lazo.

 

[duckroll]

By "younger" I mean he has fuller and darker hair and looks less roughed up. I don't mean he is literally younger. They could have changed his appearance 30 years later to fit a new storyline and new role. But I don't think it's a duplicate that just so happens to look like him.

Lawrence has been changing hairstyles and facial hair detail from scene to scene even when travelling with MiB, even in the same episodes, lol. That's something the show has been pretty bad at keeping consistent for some reason. Not everything is a clue unfortunately!

 

[SuperStiltzkin]

Lawrence has been changing hairstyles and facial hair detail from scene to scene even when travelling with MiB, even in the same episodes, lol. That's something the show has been pretty bad at keeping consistent for some reason. Not everything is a clue unfortunately!

Oh well I haven't noticed that. But the change between Lawrence and El Lazo is much more noticeable than the change between El Lazo episode 2 and El Lazo Episode 4. We're clearly supposed to notice a bigger difference between the two.

 

[MoeDabs]

Doesn't the MIB say to Lawrence that he used to be more eloquent? El Lazo(?) does seem to have a better vocabulary.

 

[Johnny M]

Arnold seems to be or at least created something like the puppet master from Ghost in the Shell. A ghost hacking tool that goes on when the host begins to contemplate its existence after realizes that he cannot die nor reproduce, with that inner voice.

 

[Kraftwerk]

speculation regarding ford;

Spoiler

Is he a robot hooked into the the mainframe? How can he just control the entire world just moving his fingers and snapping them.

 

[Qvoth]

just found out there's a mini ost out that includes the main theme

 

[Chiaroscuro]

speculation regarding ford;

Spoiler

Is he a robot hooked into the the mainframe? How can he just control the entire world just moving his fingers and snapping them.

In the case of the restaurant scene it us easy: Moments before, just issue a voice command to put all nearby hosrs in a mode that pay attention to his hand gestures. Pre-programmed a few gests to specific vehaviours. Impress.

Or just that all hosts are programmed to pay extra attention to Ford with extra commands.

 

[Rentahamster]

Oh well I haven't noticed that. But the change between Lawrence and El Lazo is much more noticeable than the change between El Lazo episode 2 and El Lazo Episode 4. We're clearly supposed to notice a bigger difference between the two.

Instead of endlessly speculating about timelines, what we should really be asking is who gave Lawrence a haircut in between scenes?

.

 

[Edzi]

Haven't seen em, but yes I know Lawrence is El Lazo. But one would assume they just had a duplicate model that they reused.

Well, I'm not going to bother repeating myself, but it does seem like a lot of you guys who are backing the weird timeline theories are just ignoring a lot of the counter posts.