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Spoiler thread for Arrival | We have Contact again
- Thread starter shira
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Count Dookkake
Member
I thought it was neat how it has a very similar ending to that of Bill and Ted's Bogus Journey.
Really good film but the reveal about Ian being the father was hammered way too much home. I feel they never should've showed his face, just the show picture with mom and daddy and the bird and hearing him say "You wanna make a baby?" with the flashbacks/flashforward showing the girls life.
I didn't even know it was a flashforward until my friends told me. Needless to say, my mind was thoroughly fucked tonight. So much to unpack but I'll post some small points that stand out to me.
- The news reel collage at the end is a parallel to the final 1/12 message they gave. Not only is it visually similar, we also similarly understand the meaning of what each and every screen conveys immediately.
- The first time they made contact was legitimately dread inducing. Johannsson does it again.
- When they save them by pushing them back :'(((( I'm weak Gaf
- The news reel collage at the end is a parallel to the final 1/12 message they gave. Not only is it visually similar, we also similarly understand the meaning of what each and every screen conveys immediately.
- The first time they made contact was legitimately dread inducing. Johannsson does it again.
- When they save them by pushing them back :'(((( I'm weak Gaf
Goddamn this was a fantastic movie. I went in figuring I'd like it, but I didn't think I'd come out with the thought that this is one of my new favourite movies. I love the idea/concept of the fluidity/non-linearity of time. Was really blown away at the "Who is this girl you keep showing me" or what not, when she goes up in the capsule to the shell.
It was incredible how what you thought were flashbacks were actually flash forwards. With that knowledge I need to see the film again. It feels like the ending flows perfectly back into the beginning, creating a nonlinear film structure.
Here's a question though, is the child actually real? When she was suffering from the dreams and imagined the hectopod at the Base that made me question if the girl was real or not, or just a dream by louisa of her time with the aliens after understanding their language. Am I crazy?
Edit: another reason I thought this is because the aliens ask louise and humanity for help. What else needs help from an adult but a child. So her seeing the aliens as a child in a dream would make sense
2nd edit: what if the scenes with her child are future visions of her and the aliens? We know there's a scene at the beginning of the film with her daughter who dies but she cares for her while she is dying. If the child represents the aliens and we know they came to humanity for help with something in the future, could that scene be a future vision of louisa helping the aliens?
Yes and proved it to him by using the words that he told her in the future to get him to back down in the present
User 479360
Banned
Agreed. Just got back from seeing it, myself, and thought it was quite impressive.
It went places you don't normally see, and did things intelligently, without the need for crazy special effects or action scenes.
The beginning and ending song is This Bitter Earth, btw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmEhO1OiEkY
The lyrics are fitting
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmEhO1OiEkY
The lyrics are fitting
Depths of Orion
Member
Absolutely loved the movie. The only thing that I wish they touched on a bit more was why the aliens needed the humans to help them in 3000 years.
If the aliens can perceive time the same way, why do they need the humans?
If the aliens can perceive time the same way, why do they need the humans?
m_shortpants
Member
I posted in the OT but:
Man this film is brilliant. The entire movie is about challenging your perception of time. From the very beginning you see Louise with her child, and you naturally assume that takes before the rest of the film.
You don't realize until the end that those are flash forwards. And in doing so, you basically experience the same realization as Louise in the film, as that is mirrored in the film's structure.
My understanding is that everything "past" her encounter with the alien alone when she finds out that time is a circle or non linear is when she is able to experience and see everything simultaneously. So once they have the child, she already knows what will happen. And her knowledge of that fact causes her and Ian to separate. And this repeats...except that in the time "before" she meets the alien alone she isn't fully conscious of that fact and is not fully able to see other parts of her life and time.
That's just my interpretation. My only question was if the book that Ian was reading on the helicopter was the book on the aliens language or another one.
Man this film is brilliant. The entire movie is about challenging your perception of time. From the very beginning you see Louise with her child, and you naturally assume that takes before the rest of the film.
You don't realize until the end that those are flash forwards. And in doing so, you basically experience the same realization as Louise in the film, as that is mirrored in the film's structure.
My understanding is that everything "past" her encounter with the alien alone when she finds out that time is a circle or non linear is when she is able to experience and see everything simultaneously. So once they have the child, she already knows what will happen. And her knowledge of that fact causes her and Ian to separate. And this repeats...except that in the time "before" she meets the alien alone she isn't fully conscious of that fact and is not fully able to see other parts of her life and time.
That's just my interpretation. My only question was if the book that Ian was reading on the helicopter was the book on the aliens language or another one.
Biggest-Geek-Ever
Member
:'(
This was a really great film who's tackling of the idea of nonlinear time was one of the best I've ever seen in a film.
I was expecting to enjoy it, but I was not expecting the ending 5 minutes to be somewhat of a remedy to the last couple days. I'm guessing on retrospect I won't like how neatly things led to global peace, but for now, it was a welcome plot point.
But does anyone get the gift besides her ? I'm guessing no since if everyone can see the future, the world would fucking burn
How does she get Chang to calm down the first time? There's no way for her to meet Chang at the party unless he gives her his wife's dying words. That's a whole egg vs chicken paradox right there
Otherwise excellent fucking movie. Didn't see the twist at all
How does she get Chang to calm down the first time? There's no way for her to meet Chang at the party unless he gives her his wife's dying words. That's a whole egg vs chicken paradox right there
Otherwise excellent fucking movie. Didn't see the twist at all
Disagree Guy
Member
And there it is guys. Literally no thread is safe.
I saw it yesterday, and I absolutely loved it.
Amy Adams is excellent once again. The soundtrack is phenomenal, and overall it is a great exercise of film making. The ideas aren't necessarily new, but it still feels fresh. The Slow pace of film is actually a thing that works in its favour, for once.
That line was dreadful. I do agree they hammered it too much, even when it was absolutely obvious what was going on.
Amy Adams is excellent once again. The soundtrack is phenomenal, and overall it is a great exercise of film making. The ideas aren't necessarily new, but it still feels fresh. The Slow pace of film is actually a thing that works in its favour, for once.
That line was dreadful. I do agree they hammered it too much, even when it was absolutely obvious what was going on.
Ay, they probably felt like they had to spell it out for some of the people who were still picking their minds up off of the floor
Just got back from seeing it, and while I did love it and think i twas great, a couple of flaws do detract from it.
1) The pacing seems a bit uneven. It;s really slow for the first half, with introduction of the arrival and so on, then it speeds through time a bit, then slows back down, and then speeds through the revelations.
2) While fantastically subtle at some aspects to the concept, it is equally fantastically "explainy". There are moments that are narrated to you explicitly to let you know whats going on, and at one point literally SPELLED out fro you on screen - the subtitles were hokey. I wish they just did away with them and while still letting them have their conversation, only subtly suggest what it was about.
But the concept and execution overall were so cool.
I'm a little bummed that there doesn't appear to be much to rewatch.
1) The pacing seems a bit uneven. It;s really slow for the first half, with introduction of the arrival and so on, then it speeds through time a bit, then slows back down, and then speeds through the revelations.
2) While fantastically subtle at some aspects to the concept, it is equally fantastically "explainy". There are moments that are narrated to you explicitly to let you know whats going on, and at one point literally SPELLED out fro you on screen - the subtitles were hokey. I wish they just did away with them and while still letting them have their conversation, only subtly suggest what it was about.
But the concept and execution overall were so cool.
I'm a little bummed that there doesn't appear to be much to rewatch.
What a fantastic movie. When I realised that those were flashforwards not flashbacks, and put the subtle details together, my mind was blown away. But I agree that sometimes it tries to explain too much.
Some things I'm confused, why do they put a bomb in there and why don't they warn Louise that there is a bomb? And during that scene there is also sound of gunfire outside, just before the bomb explodes, what is happening? Do the aliens know she can see the future from the beginning or what?
Some things I'm confused, why do they put a bomb in there and why don't they warn Louise that there is a bomb? And during that scene there is also sound of gunfire outside, just before the bomb explodes, what is happening? Do the aliens know she can see the future from the beginning or what?
It's just fear mongers. People who felt something had to be done besides trying to talk with the. Like the bomb in the movie Contact, except in that film it had consequences to the progress of the movie.
In Arrival, i lost the impact of that moment, because it just cut away to her waking up. Sure, Abbott gets in "death process" (dying, or actually dead?), but it really doesn't have much bearing on the outcome or progress of the story. You could argue it make the aliens a bit standoffish, maybe even be the cause for their threatening motions - but ultimately, couldn't they see some sort of future, whereby they need humanity? Their end game had to be one of peace.
The alien was literally pointing at the bomb, mimicking how we point.
Also the gunfire outside again was explained by a bunch of military on the base deciding to take matters in to their own hands, they're defending themselves from security going after them. In fact they mention to only fire warning shots if possible.
The Culture Vulture
Member
The colonel didn't know a bomb was being placed. It was done secretly by the kid watching the Alex Jones type on his laptop. Kind of a lame, unnecessary part of the narrative for me.
One of the few weak bits, I agree. They could have had the aliens become more cautious of the humans in another way, like just seeing China becoming more militarized could have made the aliens lift their spaceships off the ground or something.
Expendable.
Member
I liked the movie, but when I saw it a month or so ago, this part is very poorly edited/constructed. Glad to know I'm not alone. I was hoping others agreed.
But it's a movie that's really grown on me. I love the way the plot unfolds and especially those final moments.
User 479360
Banned
I guess they just didn't care. It was awful of them, though.
The aliens saving them was great, and it was well done.
The aliens saving them was great, and it was well done.
ZackieChan
Member
Surprised at all the love in here. I didn't think it was particularly good once we hit the 2nd half. None of the reveals really did anything for me. Renner's father role was hamhandedly revealed when it was obvious already 5 minutes before. I watched in English with Hungarian subtitles, and the last encounter with the aliens was in Hungarian. I still understood exactly what happened, so I can see the fact that it is all spelled out (as pointed out by another poster above) to be overbearing as well.
Interesting twist, but done better on [season 3 spoilers of insanely popular show from a decade ago]
was a total mind fuck. This? I don't get the point of it all. Just to teach one woman something? Maybe I missed something in the subtitles about why she was so important and worth them coming here for. Doesn't seem that she taught others, because Renner leaves her at some point and obviously didn't learn the "all time at once" trick. Another thing I've seen done better, as well (the dragon in John Gardner's Grendel).
Kind of disappointed, though the language stuff in the first half is absolutely fascinating.
Interesting twist, but done better on [season 3 spoilers of insanely popular show from a decade ago]
Lost. That flash-forward reveal
Kind of disappointed, though the language stuff in the first half is absolutely fascinating.
Combichristoffersen
Combovers don't work when there is no hair
Oh, we have had those UFOs in Norway for decades. They're edible too.
ZackieChan
Member
She literally says this in the movie...
I feel like a lot of you weren't paying attention. Or maybe I just see the whole movie all at once? whatatwist.txt
FriendlyGoat
Member
Just for clarification, this song you posted is actually a mashup between the original This Bitter Earth and Max Richter's On The Nature of Daylight which was used for the movie Shutter Island. The latter song was actually featured in the Arrival, not the mashup.
Miss.Selfdestruct
Member
Feel like watching it a second time to help narrow my opinion on it. But on first impression, loved it.
Disagree. All the footage of humans causing chaos worldwide and immediately resulting to violence towards the new visitors falls on point with how we would behave. Our military isn't perfect and it didn't seem pointless to show that even within a top secret team to handle that situation, you would get some rotten apples. In their minds they were doing what's right for their loved ones though.
Disagree. All the footage of humans causing chaos worldwide and immediately resulting to violence towards the new visitors falls on point with how we would behave. Our military isn't perfect and it didn't seem pointless to show that even within a top secret team to handle that situation, you would get some rotten apples. In their minds they were doing what's right for their loved ones though.
Nazgul_Hunter
Member
This movie was a ride. I don't particularly like trying to figure out 'twists' while watching a movie; I much rather like letting the director take me when he wants. And man, this was one of the most mindblowing movie experiences I've had.
When she said "I don't understand, who is this child?", not only did the entire movie up to that point click for me, I also felt like the rest of the movie going forward clicked and I knew what would happen. I've never experienced that level of mindblow in a movie before.
When she said "I don't understand, who is this child?", not only did the entire movie up to that point click for me, I also felt like the rest of the movie going forward clicked and I knew what would happen. I've never experienced that level of mindblow in a movie before.
When she said, I missed you when she hugging the dude I finally cracked.
Spent my whole ride back to home crying.
Looks like Salmiakki. Do they taste the same?
Spent my whole ride back to home crying.
Oh, we have had those UFOs in Norway for decades. They're edible too.
Looks like Salmiakki. Do they taste the same?
AlteredBeast
Fork 'em, Sparky!
Why was this film so dark? I enjoyed it, but it became very obvious what was going on about 2/3rd of the way through the movie. It wasn't too bad, but was a little too thematically convenient for me.
Yeah that reminded me of RotK it was about 10 minutes too long.
Also, "The most surprising thing was meeting you." That line really should have gone unsaid. Too hammy for my tastes.
Noticed the same. Watched on a Sony 4K screen, but when the screen was bright there were weird square artifacts all over the screen.
Solid movie. Not the best or the worst. Enjoyed my time with the film.
Corleth the Fey
Member
I'm a bit disappointed to be honest after seeing it earlier today.
It's a good film for sure - extremely competent. The real thread / twist - Louise's ability to mentally criss cross through time because she let herself think in the Alien's universal language felt good. But we just had to have the film-makers do that look we're so clever - we tricked you with the cinematic medium. I wasn't impressed.
Subverting your concept of the films timeline has been done too many times to impress me to honest. By Christopher Nolan for example - who the director here is seemingly falling into the path of. And it's not because I'm a Nolan fanboy - in fact I think he's quite the hack.
My problem is I wanted - Close Encounters/Contact - not cinematic parlour tricks.
Still, I have been thinking about it a lot today and I would certainly recommend it to anyone as worth seeing.
It's a good film for sure - extremely competent. The real thread / twist - Louise's ability to mentally criss cross through time because she let herself think in the Alien's universal language felt good. But we just had to have the film-makers do that look we're so clever - we tricked you with the cinematic medium. I wasn't impressed.
Subverting your concept of the films timeline has been done too many times to impress me to honest. By Christopher Nolan for example - who the director here is seemingly falling into the path of. And it's not because I'm a Nolan fanboy - in fact I think he's quite the hack.
My problem is I wanted - Close Encounters/Contact - not cinematic parlour tricks.
Still, I have been thinking about it a lot today and I would certainly recommend it to anyone as worth seeing.
Trumpets
Member
I thought it was very good. There aren't many SF films that rely on dialogue and character rather than action, so when one comes along it's great when it turns out so well.
That said, I thought the Amy Adams' character was a bit of a misery guts, which would have made sense if she had actually lost a child in her past, but as we all now know that isn't the case. She's just dreary and humourless by nature, I suppose.
As to why Jeremy Renner ends up leaving her, I asume it's because she knew their daughter was going to die at a young age and still choses to have her, without telling him.
That said, I thought the Amy Adams' character was a bit of a misery guts, which would have made sense if she had actually lost a child in her past, but as we all now know that isn't the case. She's just dreary and humourless by nature, I suppose.
As to why Jeremy Renner ends up leaving her, I asume it's because she knew their daughter was going to die at a young age and still choses to have her, without telling him.
Nazgul_Hunter
Member
I think calling them tricks is harsh. More than any other movie I've seen, this one really puts you in the head of the main character. We learn everything real time with her. The flashforwards are just as confusing to her as they are for us, and there's really not a lot of deceptive editing.
Didn't really come together for me. I really loved Prisoners/Enemy/Sicario and was hoping this would at least impress and entertain me on that level. Most of the film I felt confused about how I was supposed to feel. I appreciate the attempt but the piece as a whole felt pretty hollow to me. I think the audiences that are going to see this film have seen the wave of great sci-fi prestige in the last few years. For me I felt like I was seeing Sandra Bullocks anxiety ridden character in Gravity ham fisted with Jessica Chastain's time traveling daughter in Interstellar. Gravity was a contained thriller so the anxiousness felt like it was a cohesive part of the storytelling both in regards to your emotional level and the plot. Interstellar holds up even better as a puzzler slash emo-sci-fi piece that seems to do the transcendence of time thing better. I guess the "Story of Your Life" short story perhaps predates both of those movies, so that may explain why the film had such trouble getting into production in the first place. Oh well? Kind of worried about Blade Runner 2049 but Deakins should at least be on set to help steer the ship.
Corleth the Fey
Member
Yeah it does sound harsh, but that's how I viewed them. Mileage will of course vary for others - yourself included.
The film definitely heavily focuses on Louise and her point of view, but again I couldn't help being a least a little agitated by that. There's a load of scenes where she is literally the only character in focus on screen and it felt so clear to me that the film's creators were almost bludgeoning me over the head with the concept. And all the other characters in the story suffer because of it. Either being under developed, or presented as very weak caricatures. All in service of the films supposedly clever conceit.
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