Star Citizen Alpha 2.0 | The 'Verse Awakens

iHaunter said:
They couldn't even get a single mission to show for CitCon and that was an all hands for almost a month.

That's an indication that the actual game is FAAAAR from ready. I look forward to hopefully see a the mission they were prepping for CitCon in one of the live-streams.
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I think i might have misunderstood what you meant, I thought you were saying it seemed like they knew that specific mission wouldn't be ready in time for CitizenCon, but it looks like you meant SQ42 overall missing the 2016 date (which i agree on, there's no way they didn't know that sooner). That mission was going to be an hour-long gameplay demo with everything at 100% finished quality, even the things players wouldn't actually see, and contained over 70 individual characters, though.
 
TheVoidDragon said:
I think i might have misunderstood what you meant, I thought you were saying it seemed like they knew that specific mission wouldn't be ready in time for CitizenCon, but it looks like you meant SQ42 overall missing the 2016 date (which i agree on, there's no way they didn't know that sooner). That mission was going to be an hour-long gameplay demo with everything at 100% finished quality, even the things players wouldn't actually see, and contained over 70 individual characters, though.
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Oh yeah of course, it's hard to predict that sort of thing, I feel for them about CitizenCon, but I appreciate Chris taking the heat and not showing it to make it more polished. He knew it wouldn't be a popular opinion and decided to wait, which I think is fine.

Hopefully we can see the mission on one of the live-streams, looked like an interesting prospect. :)
 
TheVoidDragon said:
What are you basing that on? They couldn't have told us sooner because they didn't know. It was only a few days before Citizencon (while they were still working on it) that they realized they wouldn't get the remaining problems sorted out in time. Before that they were pretty confident it would be done in time.
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You don't really go from thinking it should be ready in the next 3 days to not being confident that it will be ready in the next 2 months, if the first estmation was more than wishfull thinking.
It really feel like people either don't have the courage to tell CR that things won't be ready in time, or he isn't listening when told so. I mean it would explain why their estimates keep being wrong, but also why they always seem to know ( and announce ) it at the last minute. CR probably still think 3.0 might be ready this year.
 
elyetis said:
You don't really go from thinking it should be ready in the next 3 days to not being confident that it will be ready in the next 2 months, if the first estmation was more than wishfull thinking.
It really feel like people either don't have the courage to tell CR that things won't be ready in time, or he isn't listening when told so. I mean it would explain why their estimates keep being wrong, but also why they always seem to know ( and announce ) it at the last minute. CR probably still think 3.0 might be ready this year.
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There's a real chance 2.6 won't come this year.

But there is a silver-lining here. A lot of the tech needed for 3.0 is what's delaying 2.6. So 3.0 probably won't take as long as 2.6 is.
 
TheVoidDragon said:
What are you basing that on? They couldn't have told us sooner because they didn't know. It was only a few days before Citizencon (while they were still working on it) that they realized they wouldn't get the remaining problems sorted out in time. Before that they were pretty confident it would be done in time.
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This bothers the hell out of me, and is my main criticism of anything to do with Star Citizen. Their project management is spectacularly bad in every aspect. There never should have been a meeting a couple days before citizencon to discuss whether or not the demo would be finished. It should either have been finished long before, or the backers should have been told to dial back their expectations prior to the show.

Good project management is about setting and meeting expectations and communication. CIG is awful at both. Sure, shit happens, and sometimes it's out of your control, but when you're missing every deadline and not informing your client that the deadlines will be missed, the project is being mismanaged.

If you have any inkling that the project won't meet a deadline, then you let your client know early. If I have a deadline of December 1st and on November 1st I realize my team is slightly behind schedule, I tell the client that we're behind on November 1st. The client won't be happy about it, and neither will I, but at that point I just need to communicate that something is amiss and that the expectation of having their project complete one month from now is in jeopardy. They have a right to know about it, because it's their money and their project.

Sliding past a deadline without telling anyone is the biggest sin I can think of in terms of project management. If I did it in my work, my clients would be apoplectic, and they'd be 100% right to discontinue our contract.

It's your money and your project, so why aren't you demanding to be treated as such? Some people have tens of thousands of dollars invested and are content to let CIG do whatever they want with no oversight.
 
WalTech said:
Sure, shit happens, and sometimes it's out of your control, but when you're missing every deadline and not informing your client that the deadlines will be missed, the project is being mismanaged.
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But they said several times that they can miss 2016 with S42 ...

And there is a difference between skipping a demo on convention and launching the product. Its not like they didnt have demo, but they didnt have a demo to acceptable level of polish, which they thought they would be able deliver few weeks prior to CitizenCon.

There is also a difference in looking at this deadline. They have not setup date of CitizenCon to showcase of vertical slide of S42. CitizenCon is annually at the same time of year.
Showing fully polished vertical slice of S42 there was just side goal of CIG, which they missed.
 
KKRT00 said:
But they said several times that they can miss 2016 with S42 ...

And there is a difference between skipping a demo on convention and launching the product. Its not like they didnt have demo, but they didnt have a demo to acceptable level of polish, which they thought they would be able deliver few weeks prior to CitizenCon.

There is also a difference in looking at this deadline. They have not setup date of CitizenCon to showcase of vertical slide of S42. CitizenCon is annually at the same time of year.
Showing fully polished vertical slice of S42 there was just side goal of CIG, which they missed.
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I'm not talking about a single demo, and I'm not saying they should have changed the date for citizencon to accommodate the progress of the SQ42 demo. I'm saying that they consistently build up hype and tell people something is coming by a certain date or time period, and then they consistently fail to deliver. For instance, just off the top of my head, Star Marine was weeks not months away last summer, the PU was supposed to get updates monthly (we're on 2.5 and it has been a year or so now?). Then, in this case, Chris says he's missing E3 2016 which he had promised to attend the year before so that they could focus on Squadron 42. He said to watch out for Gamescom and Citizencon, then at Gamescom he hyped up Citizencon again and then didn't deliver what everyone expected.

My point wasn't that they missed this one deadline, it's that there is a pattern of poor project management that permeates the project.

In each case listed above, they set an expectation, then failed to communicate that said expectation may not be in line with what was actually going to be delivered. It's an outward sign of serious problems within. If a contractor working on a project for me was unable to meet deadlines and wouldn't tell me why, I'd find a new one ASAP, and I sure as hell wouldn't keep paying them.
 
WalTech said:
If a contractor working on a project for me was unable to meet deadlines and wouldn't tell me why, I'd find a new one ASAP, and I sure as hell wouldn't keep paying them.
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It's not just the contractor failing deadlines and failing to admit this. It's also them begging for constantly more money before delivering, promising ever more shiny stuff that either outright lacks an ETA or misses it. Why? Because they didn't think it was good enough to show to you and wanted to make it absolutely perfect. Not like the other pleb devs, delivering unfinished, imperfect hogwash.

Nope, this contractor is above such lowly standards! You better believe it, in the next holiday stream any year now from 2017 to 2030, they'll show you all was worth it.
 
I am curious. What are the expectations for CIG for release of SQ42?

For SC PU?

For 3.0?

I am sure that everyone has a different answer. I am interested to hearing it.

Please refrain from "we are already playing SC" nonsense. I am talking about a package that resembles a proper game.
 
Outrun said:
If we get SQ Q4 2017, I will be happy. That is my primary focus for this project.
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Yep. I'm after that next gen Wing Commander. It's happening, and I'm more than happy to wait for it.

The PU is an incredibly cool added bonus for me. As is the entertaining and endless tirades of the entitled know-it-all's.
 
mercenar1e said:
a live stream with the goal of selling more ships. thank fuck for the community backlash because these guys wouldn't have shown 2.6 otherwise.
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I'm personally glad for it.

They need to be aware that we won't keep buying random ships if they don't fully share what's really going on. Though it's hard to say if they planned it or are simply doing it because they were forced to.
 
I'm still holding out for the slim possibility they'll surprise people with the mission demo on the stream after the 2.6 LAN earlier in the day. Double whammy good will for the ship sale to follow.

People said they never do big reveals at the anniversary streams, but then again, the holiday streams seem to about the same level of production.

However, even if they have it ready now and are just picking the right time to pull the trigger, I think it's still more likely that they would save that reveal for the gift-giving season.
 
What time is the live stream today (Fri) Please.
Raticus79 said:
I'm still holding out for the slim possibility they'll surprise people with the mission demo on the stream after the 2.6 LAN earlier in the day. Double whammy good will for the ship sale to follow..
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I hope so.
 
Shy said:
What time is the live stream today (Fri) Please.

I hope so.
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9am PST for the LAN, 1pm PST for the stream.
t1479502800z4.png
 
SnowTeeth said:
It's almost like CIG are holding people at gunpoint, insisting that people contribute their money. Or else.
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No, it's almost like CIG keeps spewing poo and people ask for second fillings.

I can offer you this fantasy spaceship. Its walls are inlayed with luxurious space mahagoni, it has space cow leather seats, a suit for the captain all with yacuzzi and comes with an espresso making simulation. You have to control how finely you grind the beans into powder to make the best possible space espresso. It can be yours today for only 800$. Currently we have it more or less modeled and textured and it will be patched into the game, right after we figure out how to not eject your character into space when walking through a door and prevent the server from burning once there are more than a dozen people on it. Which is the number of crew you need to fly this ship, although we still have no clue whatsoever how crewmen gameplay will even work. But never mind that, you'll be able to hire AI crew, all with health and hapiness simulation. Don't worry, we currently only don't have a single AI character in our tech demo because... err... the female character model still has not the fidelity we want from her. Yes that was it. You do want male and female crew, do you?
 
WalTech said:
I'm not talking about a single demo, and I'm not saying they should have changed the date for citizencon to accommodate the progress of the SQ42 demo. I'm saying that they consistently build up hype and tell people something is coming by a certain date or time period, and then they consistently fail to deliver. For instance, just off the top of my head, Star Marine was weeks not months away last summer, the PU was supposed to get updates monthly (we're on 2.5 and it has been a year or so now?). Then, in this case, Chris says he's missing E3 2016 which he had promised to attend the year before so that they could focus on Squadron 42. He said to watch out for Gamescom and Citizencon, then at Gamescom he hyped up Citizencon again and then didn't deliver what everyone expected.

My point wasn't that they missed this one deadline, it's that there is a pattern of poor project management that permeates the project.

In each case listed above, they set an expectation, then failed to communicate that said expectation may not be in line with what was actually going to be delivered. It's an outward sign of serious problems within. If a contractor working on a project for me was unable to meet deadlines and wouldn't tell me why, I'd find a new one ASAP, and I sure as hell wouldn't keep paying them.
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I really dont want to debate with you when you are skipping information they provided, like for example over half a year ago they admitted that monthly updates for PU wont gonna work and on Gamescom they admitted that they are focusing fully on 3.0.

And you also skipping the fact how much shit they got after showing Morrow Tour, because it was work in progressed and not polished in any degree.
People just do not want to see alpha builds, which is shame.

---
Burny said:
No, it's almost like CIG keeps spewing poo and people ask for second fillings.
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Or you know, you could just pay 35$ at the beginning of the campaign and just wait. I'm for example playing Diablo 1 modded right now. I can wait for a good product.

Ps. Marketing departments do not develop features or create assets.

----
Burny said:
You'd do a lot better by actively asking Chris Roberts when he's going to pull his head out of he sand, if you want to have so much as a hope for a good product coming from him, by the looks of it.
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Speak for yourself. I'm happy with the progress they are making.
Of course everybody would want to play it already, but i have realistic expectations. For me delays in development are very normal and what they are trying to do is going beyong anything was done before. I can wait for that.
 
KKRT00 said:
Or you know, you could just pay 35$ at the beginning of the campaign and just wait.
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You'd do a lot better by actively asking Chris Roberts when he's going to pull his head out of he sand, if you want to have so much as a hope for a good product coming from him, by the looks of it.
 
Burny said:
You'd do a lot better by actively asking Chris Roberts when he's going to pull his head out of he sand, if you want to have so much as a hope for a good product coming from him, by the looks of it.
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Burny has spoken!




I'm happy to wait for the game with the one and only ship I purchased during the kickstarter campaign. I can't afford to contribute any more money, so I don't. Meanwhile I'm enjoying watching this whole process warts and all. Feel free to constantly shit talk it and Chris Roberts - because after all you know what's best.
 
KKRT00 said:
I really dont want to debate with you when you are skipping information they provided, like for example over half a year ago they admitted that monthly updates for PU wont gonna work and on Gamescom they admitted that they are focusing fully on 3.0.

And you also skipping the fact how much shit they got after showing Morrow Tour, because it was work in progressed and not polished in any degree.
People just do not want to see alpha builds, which is shame.
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I wasn't really debating, I was just pointing out something that I see as a problem. Also, I can't provide ALL information in every post or all of my posts would look like Derek Smart's trillion word, double sourced, footnoted, annotated blog posts with full appendices and I don't think anyone wants to read that. I certainly don't want to write it either.

However, your extra information is also not the complete story and it actually speaks to my point. They did say half a year ago that they weren't going to be able to push updates every month, but they did it AFTER they had missed their self-imposed monthly deadlines. That's exactly what I'm saying is the problem. They set an expectation (monthly patches), then didn't deliver, and only when the deadline had passed did they inform the backers that it couldn't be done.
 
I dunno if it's the general negativity getting to me but I'm debating a refund if the stream doesn't give me something to look forward to soon. I've always been fine with waiting and I think I still am, but every time I check in now it sounds like the house is burning down. I don't watch the videos any more and just check in here for updates, but man the tone has shifted so much in this thread. I'm feeling like it's safer to cash out soon.
 
"Coming up in 2015, we will launch the FPS module and the first episode of the Squadron 42 single player adventure!"

"Coming up in 2017, we will launch the FPS module and the first episode of the Squadron 42 single player adventure!"
 
UpDownLeftRight said:
I dunno if it's the general negativity getting to me but I'm debating a refund if the stream doesn't give me something to look forward to soon. I've always been fine with waiting and I think I still am, but every time I check in now it sounds like the house is burning down. I don't watch the videos any more and just check in here for updates, but man the tone has shifted so much in this thread. I'm feeling like it's safer to cash out soon.
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If you do this, then Trump Burny has already won.

Eh, I think this thread is generally very positive, sans the occasional 'reality check' incursion from the usual suspects. We'll be fine.
 
UpDownLeftRight said:
I dunno if it's the general negativity getting to me but I'm debating a refund if the stream doesn't give me something to look forward to soon. I've always been fine with waiting and I think I still am, but every time I check in now it sounds like the house is burning down. I don't watch the videos any more and just check in here for updates, but man the tone has shifted so much in this thread. I'm feeling like it's safer to cash out soon.
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The tone of the thread is set by the posters contributing to it. Right now the thread is more or less flooded with the long time skeptics. I think many of the people that aren't in hyper-negative mode are in passive cruise control at this point. There's nothing really new to discuss, and arguing with the skeptics takes effort that can be invested in doing more productive things. ;)
 
Zabojnik said:
If you do this, then Trump Burny has already won.

Eh, I think this thread is generally very positive, sans the occasional 'reality check' incursion from the usual suspects. We'll be fine.
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Zalusithix said:
The tone of the thread is set by the posters contributing to it. Right now the thread is more or less flooded with the long time skeptics. I think many of the people that aren't in hyper-negative mode are in passive cruise control at this point. There's nothing really new to discuss, and arguing with the skeptics takes effort that can be invested in doing more productive things. ;)
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Yeah you're probably right. Hopefully the mood will be boosted after the event. I think it's probably a combination of the lack of new stuff to be excited about for the last few weeks and approaching the holidays on a bit of a tighter year financially than usual. I'm sure I'll find something to be excited about in the event. I really think it's time to show whatever they have of S42 now though, bugs and all if needs be.
 
Outrun said:
I am curious. What are the expectations for CIG for release of SQ42?

For SC PU?

For 3.0?
Click to expand...
When CR said that he expected 3.0 before the end of the year, joking how it wouldn't be just before their holidays this time, my expectation was :
elyetis said:
My current expectation is March for 3.0, June for SQ42.
It could lead me to being pleasantly surprised by an early release, while not setting me up for disapointement if there is a delay, like there was for (almost?) every "major" release up until now.
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Today ?

SQ42 - Q4 2017, seeing it slip into Q1 or even Q2 2018 wouldn't be much of a suprise.
3.0 would now be more of a broad Q2 2017 given the current state of 2.6 release ( still not Evocati ? ).
Given the time scale CR gave for 3.1 [...] 3.3 to 4.0 ( around 3 month I think ? so let's round it up to 4 since it comes from CR ), it would push 4.0 to... Q3 2018 ?
So let's ay star citizen PU official release by mid 2019.
 
elyetis said:
=

SQ42 - Q4 2017, seeing it slip into Q1 or even Q2 2018 wouldn't be much of a suprise.
3.0 would now be more of a broad Q2 2017 given the current state of 2.6 release ( still not Evocati ? ).
Given the time scale CR gave for 3.1 [...] 3.3 to 4.0 ( around 3 month I think ? so let's round it up to 4 since it comes from CR ), it would push 4.0 to... Q3 2018 ?
So let's ay star citizen PU official release by mid 2019.
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the PU will not be done until much later and Evocati isn't testing 2.6 yet.
 
Looks like ships got price adjustments. Cat is now showing at $295, 890J $900, Idris P $1500, and Javelin $3000 .

I wonder if they are going to sell the 890J again during the sale.
 
chifanpoe said:
Looks like ships got price adjustments. Cat is now showing at $295, 890J $900, Idris P $1500, and Javelin $3000 .

I wonder if they are going to sell the 890J again during the sale.
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If they adjusted the price of the 890J, they almost certainly plan on selling it again. The real question is whether it'll be a normal sale or whether they'll take the F5 sale tactic. Oh, who am I kidding... It's not a matter of if it'll be F5, but how fast the F5 sale will last before being sold out.
 
Always wondered why places selling (artificially) scarce goods don't just make it a pseudo-auction with the units being sold to the top 1000 bidders. Maybe a legal issue?

It just winds up giving a cut to scalpers otherwise.
 
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