test_account
XP-39C²
I know, quanta just means an amount, it could be large or small. I see that what i wrote now is poor wording, sorry, i just mean that he could be referring to an amount in that phrase, not related to sience.
Nintendo Switch Dev Kit Stats Leaked? Cortex A57, 4GB RAM, 32GB Storage, Multi-Touch.
- Thread starter Robert at Zeboyd Games
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Nostremitus
Member
The old archaic definition just meant amount, the modern definition means tiny. Any use of the word to mean large is a misuse.
...but really, why are we still talking about this?
test_account
XP-39C²
Qaunta is still a word that isnt too uncommon. In spanish for example its common. Or maybe it is in english, i guess quantity is a lot more common. Anyway, it could have been a misunderstanding as well in 1956, that is true. But the language has been shaped into it having some other meaning as well which i think could make sense.
I think its interesting enough. I assume you think so too, otherwise why would anyone of us still respond? =)
Nostremitus
Member
LOL, true, but it's a bit off topic in the Nintendo Switch Thread.
*interact with sorry
test_account
XP-39C²
Yeah, thats true. I think we both got to say what we wanted on the subject at least
As for the Switch, regarding porting, how much would the amount of RAM mean? 4GB VS 8GB. Amounts of that is reserved for OS, but that goes for all systems.
If leaks are correct switch memory for games is 3.2 gigs. PS4 memory for games is 5.2 gigs.Yeah, thats true. I think we both got to say what we wanted on the subject at least
As for the Switch, regarding porting, how much would the amount of RAM mean? 4GB VS 8GB. Amounts of that is reserved for OS, but that goes for all systems.
Skittzo0413
Member
All we have to go on is insiders saying that there are no technical (power, storage) reasons why Switch can't get any PS4/XB1 game. I'd guess a lower texture resolution would make up for the gap in RAM.
Remember, the PS4 almost launched with 4GB of RAM too.
lwilliams3
Member
The OS for the PS4 takes up over 2GB, so it could have been less than 2GB for games if they kept it that way. That is kinda crazy to think about.
Now that we have heard the Switch will not be as "CPU limited" as the XB1/PS4, should we expect some improvements with Switch games in that regard?
Skittzo0413
Member
Well, there's a couple of ways to take that statement. It could mean that the CPU isn't as limiting relative to the GPU for the Switch as that is for the PS4/XB1, or it could mean that the Switch will overall have a better CPU than the PS4/XB1.
For the former, I think this is definitely a given, even if we just wind up with 4 A57s. For the latter, it will certainly depend on the number, type and clocks of the cores, but it's definitely possible (and likely even- see here) for the Switch CPU to be ahead of the PS4/XB1 in at least certain ways, if not every way.
Now, what would the latter interpretation mean for games? For ports I doubt we'll see much of a difference. It might allow games to reach a higher framerate due to improved physics/AI/weather/collision/etc. processing, which could take some of the load off of the relatively underpowered GPU. Meaning, a developer could get a theoretical 60fps PS4 game up to 70fps when scaling down the GPU functions (resolution, particles, shadows, etc.) which could then let them scale some of those features back up a bit to reach 60fps again. **All hypothetical, and I'm not an expert but from what I know about game development it seems possible**
For something like BotW which manages some pretty complex CPU functions on a very limited machine in the Wii U, I could easily see the Switch CPU bumping that framerate up substantially, before we even talk about the 3-4x improved GPU or the 4x more RAM.
lwilliams3
Member
All that you said sounds reasonable. I believe we may be looking at the latter interpretation. Hope we know for sure soon.
th3sicknness
Member
I think people need to realize you can have a better CPU than the ps4 and or x1 and still have less performance. Running great hardware behind a screen in a small form factor limited by a battery is going to be what holds it back regardless of hardware.
PdotMichael
Banned
Based on the possible targeted energy consumption it would be rather less than more.
Unlike tablets or other mobile devices the Parker chip must run close to 100% at all times on a dedicated gaming device.
Skittzo0413
Member
Is anyone claiming that the Switch's overall performance will be better than XB1 or PS4? I don't know why you keep bringing that up. No one is expecting that.
Just having a CPU which performs better than Jaguar is not a big feat, and it won't make that big of a difference. The GPU of the Switch will still be weaker than XB1 and PS4, as well as less RAM and slower RAM. So it will still be weaker overall.
Polygonal_Sprite
Gold Member
Do you know how many giga/teraflops the Switch GPU is ?
Schnozberry
Member
Nobody should be realistically expecting it. But it will be a modestly powered console, and the most powerful dedicated gaming handheld ever made. So that's something.
Schnozberry
Member
At least 512Gflops, potentially more depending on whether they went with a 16nm die size and higher clocks.
Skittzo0413
Member
Oh I'm well aware that it will be quite beefy for a portable and still pretty serviceable for a console. But some people are choosing to argue against strawmen here, when there's really no one actually thinking it will be overall more powerful than the XB1.
th3sicknness
Member
I keep bringing it up to reiterate your later point. Having a better CPU in the scope of everything doesn't make a difference, but people seem to think it does.
Polygonal_Sprite
Gold Member
That doesn't sound like a lot, esp for a system released in 2017 but then again Nintendo worked miracles with the WiiU GPU so I'm not worried. I'd honestly be happy with WiiU level visuals at 1080p with better texture resolution and good AA/AF esp if it means they can launch the system at a much cheaper price to appeal to a much larger audience of families and casuals.
I'm sure if third parties really put in the effort they could port almost anything to Switch if it does indeed have a CPU more powerful than PS4/XB1, a modern 512Gflop GPU and 4GB's of RAM. I don't really care about third party ports for Switch as I have a PS4 Pro anyway. Wonderful 102, Bayonetta 3 and BG&E2 would be great though !
LordOfChaos
Member
Skittzo0413
Member
It will certainly make a difference for developers but it won't be all that noticeable for games especially ports, and it won't affect which games can be ported or anything like that. But it's still apparently a fact of the hardware, which is what we're discussing here.
PdotMichael
Banned
It wouldn't really matter for ports especially if GPGPU oursourced taks need to be done on the CPU again.
th3sicknness
Member
Nothing we discuss right now is fact. All we know is that it's custom tegra and could really mean anything.
Skittzo0413
Member
Well, by "apparently" I mean based on what's been rumored. That's all we can really discuss now because like you said the only official word is custom SoC.
Gotdatmoney
Member
I don't know why having a better CPU wouldn't make a difference. It would help ensure that you are as far away from a WiiU situation as possible where it limited the system greatly. Being able to run all the modern physics and simulation systems equal to or greater than the current gen systems should help with keeping ports running well.
You're not going to see any ports optimized from a CPU stand point for the Switch though obviously.
It's interesting to see the gap in power between Wii U and Xbox One/PS4 games released in the past, and then figure where the Switch would place itself if its going to be weaker then the Xbox One.
Black Flag: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftQmHpPJrsc
Watch Dogs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkxnVwrZFVI
Black Flag: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftQmHpPJrsc
Watch Dogs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkxnVwrZFVI
Polygonal_Sprite
Gold Member
Bear in mind that both Black Flag and Watch Dogs were both cross gen games also appearing on PS3 and 360 aswell as PS4 and XB1. It would be really interesting to see if developers could get an Arkham Knight or AC Unity to run on WiiU.
Maybe something like this
AC Unity on a dual core 2GB ram PC: https://youtu.be/HDmI7squ3Os?t=10
The Wii U is 3 cores so that might help hah.
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
Its a pipe dream to assume Switch will run at 1080p at 60 fps or 4k at 30 fps max video output.
th3sicknness
Member
Native 4k gaming even on the ps4 pro is just barely possible at a steady frame rate. Most the ps4 pro games use smoke and mirrors to scale to 4k with slightly more eye candy. There is no way the switch will run games at 4k.
1080 at 60 fps is possible just based off the wiiu running smash at native 1080 at 60fps and windwaker running native 1080 at 30.
My assumption is the switch will run most games at native 720 at 60 fps. But I wouldn't rule out 1080 at 60 for some titles while docked.
turnipbender
Neo Member
People realy believe that?
You cant simpy compare STATIONARY Consoles, haha switch is mobile
Nostremitus
Member
Video output? Now, it should have no problem streaming 4K video like Netflix... but gaming? No one is making that claim.
If it has HDMI2.0 there's nothing stopping it from having 4K60 video output... now, rendering games at that resolution is a different matter entirely.... that said, it would be interesting if it used the Pascal tile based rasterization to do it's own version of checkerboard upscaling from 1080p.
Do I think it will do this, though? Not at all... But it would be interesting if possible. Considering how many people claim they can't tell the difference between 1080p and 4K, it would be interesting to see reactions.
Liabe Brave
Member
I'm not sure where you got this PS3 figure, but it's very wrong. PS3 had already sold 595m units of software by March 31, 2012. During the next year, 154m units were sold by PS2/PS3 combined. Since PS2 sold 8m units in FY11, it'd be reasonable to think probably 145m units for FY12 were from PS3. In FY13, game sales for PS3 were up over FY12. But this was by an unknown amount, so let's be very conservative and say 150m units that year.
So that puts total PS3 software sales at 890m minimum by March 31, 2014. Even if sales dropped by 50% each year after that, up until the present PS3 has sold over 990m units. Given that we're pretty sure the hardware hasn't hit 90m yet, that means the PS3 attach rate is not "about 6" but rather "well over 10". The attach rate is almost certainly higher than Wii (whose numbers 101m hardware and 915m software are from this summer).
Wii did not sell as much third-party software as PS3, despite selling more hardware.
Skittzo0413
Member
Interesting. I was having trouble finding anything official but I saw numbers around 6 pop up a bunch while googling, though I guess I don't know exactly when any of those reports or estimates I saw were from. It would be nice if there were official numbers for this though.
And I have no idea if either of these count digital sales.
Polygonal_Sprite
Gold Member
Maybe something like this
AC Unity on a dual core 2GB ram PC: https://youtu.be/HDmI7squ3Os?t=10
The Wii U is 3 cores so that might help hah.
That's incredible although it is really, really struggling framerate wise and WiiU only had 1GB of RAM for games. It would be very interesting to see Paris running on those specs as it's much more demanding than that opening scene
. I wonder how that PC's CPU compares to WiiU's CPU.I don't doubt developers could get most current gen games running on WiiU if it had sold the same as Wii. GTA V on PS360 shows that anything is possible imo. That Call of Duty Wii screenshot was also amazing to illustrate that a lot can be done to downgrade visuals if there is money to be made on a much weaker platform. That point is much truer today than it was in 2007 with fully scalable engines which are designed to work on the most powerful gaming PC's all the way down to tablets.
Remember Pro needs those specs because it's pushing 1.8TF PS4 level visuals at 1440-1800p. Doing the math, PS4 might be able to render WiiU visuals at native 4K. I'm not saying Switch will be anywhere near as powerful as PS4's GPU but it's something to bear in mind if the dock adds additional GPU power or there are other versions of Switch we don't yet know about.
Are we completely discounting the dock boosting it's power then or SCD's coming later in 2017 ? Didn't Kimishima say that they haven't revealed the full picture of the device yet ? In the era of PS4 Pro and Scorpio it wouldn't surprise me if Nintendo offered multiple power level devices, all at different prices to appeal to as many consumers as possible... "brothers".
th3sicknness
Member
Nintendo has stated all the dock does is facilitate a smooth transition between the tv and the portable.
I think we all are assuming it is like a gaming laptop with multiple power modes (battery optimized and or max performance). Maybe Nintendo is opting to keep the games consistent and won't be changing power profiles. It could be as simple as the air vents are there to keep the unit cool as it's charging and playing games.
That is a very dubious assumption for the software split. Why would Sony conceal PS3 software sells by mixing PS2 and PS3 software sales together if the PS3 moved 145 million units of software? Anyway, the point of the matter you can't say that the Wii didn't move third party games.
th3sicknness
Member
The Wii did move alot of third party games earlier in its life cycle. Once the casual audience stared to fall off things got really dire. The ps3 and the 360 had really good legs and got a lot more third party support in its final few years because the Nintendo road the Wii into the ground past its expiration date.
When the sales happened is just as important imo. They took that death spiral with them to the wii u.
The rumor is that the dock increases performance in some way (whether it's changing clock speeds or something else). So the idea is that when docked it's a "powerful" console. When used as a handheld, it's a "powerful" handheld. Now, what the extent of all this is remains to be seen, but I don't see why Nintendo would limit the system when docked since power draw isn't an issue, so they can go all out when docked. It would allow them to show off games looking great, but they could put some kind of disclaimer that the experience is different when used as a portable.
Nostremitus
Member
Since when has that been a rumor beyond a few random posters' wishful thinking?
I haven't seen anything like that coming from a reputable source. Now, there is the rumor that it has low power and high power modes, but nothing stating that it's a "powerful" console when docked. The most generous realistic rumors have it below Xbox One at its max power envelope.
Yeah... No.
Laura Kate Dale has leaked/rumoured that the dock will increase performance of the Switch when docked but hasn't detailed how it works.
That said, it makes it more likely that there won't be an SCD or, if there is, people should dial back expectations of power because it is more likely to provide features and not raw power to give 4K gaming because it'd be easier to sell an affordable peripheral as opposed to an expensive one.
The "brothers" quote doesn't guarantee there will be multiple devices at different specs to each other. That was just Iwata giving ideas when he wasn't sure whether to have one form factor or many in the future.
I know, Nintendo could release a PS Vita TV version of the Switch but say, something to be a Scorpio killer? They'd have to have a reason to just go for raw power, if Switch is successful you're not going to see them release a PS4 Clone a year from now.
They could release a powerful home console only but, it'd would have to have some kind of purpose for Nintendo to want to develop for it like VR. Although, considering how Nintendo likes things to be affordable, they're probably more likely to use mobile VR tech so it's going to be a few more years until that gets better.
Skittzo0413
Member
I don't know what he means by "powerful" console (he might just mean more powerful than portable mode) but Laura Dale reported that the Switch does increase performance in some way when docked. Obviously if it's just a clock boost there's no way it gets to XB1 power but it still improves performance when not reliant on a battery.
Don't forget the seamless VR tech and hologram display!
th3sicknness
Member
I go with the most simple path. The dock does nothing but cool the portable and charge the battery in addition to giving it HDMI output and USB access. It was made so large because it has to block the screen to get rid of the Wii U comparisons. Also it won't have a power brick to power the unit like the Wii and Wii U it will be contained in the unit similar to how the newer consoles have it.
The vents are there to help vent the heat from charging the joycons and the unit itself while playing games docked.
The vents are there to help vent the heat from charging the joycons and the unit itself while playing games docked.
No mobile device needs air cooling to serve this function though. It's an overkill.
My goodness, are you a troll?
He's not wrong about Nintendo carry a negative momentum from the end of the Wii cycle to the Wii U.
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