Waypoint: I Hope The Last of Us Part II is Super Gay (Spoilers)
- Thread starter Kenzodielocke
- Start date
Looked more like ~45. Ellie is 14. During the beginning of the game, he looked around ~30.
People are generally hugely ignorant to why representation of so many issues regarding all manner of genders and race are important to represent in all manner of media. They never realise how much they have / haven't benefited until something really resonates. But then there are the folk always catered to who will likely not truly understand it
I never said anything would change if he was gay .... but the fact that Joel had a biological daughter is a HUGE plot point in the game.
"if joel was gay and sarah was adopted he still react similarly" is like "if ellie was straight and the girl she will meet was a boy she would still react similarly" =P
LurkFish17
Member
Gameplay needs to be done well first before moving on to anything else imo. People took that to mean something else.
EdibleExplosives
Member
Hilarious that people don't want sexuality possibly getting in the way of gameplay for a game like TLOU. The first game was as good as it was because of the characters.
But please ND, don't expand upon a certain character trait because muh gameplay.
But please ND, don't expand upon a certain character trait because muh gameplay.
It's not that he will change much during 5 years. He will basically look the same.
Honestly why not? Why can't she be out and proud? How will that actually affect the gameplay or the enemies or the world?
FinaruDensetsu
Member
What are your referencing? I'm not familiar with this.
Firstly, what's being forced? And why shouldn't you actively try to include broader representation?
John Kowalski
Banned
Noticed this too, which i really liked.
Wow this thread is turning worse than i thought it would.
QuantumBro
Banned
I hope Naughty Dog makes all their decisions on what will generate the most butthurt among manbabies, LGBT folks will understand.
Gay people can't have biological children or be a fatherly figure to someone?
Astral Dog
Member
Nate Drake? Samuel?
But anyways i think TLOUS will be fine
AlexFlame116
Member
Ah the memories...thanks for that...thought I almost forgot it finally.
If they do decide to go through with it for Ellie, then all I ask is for it to be subtle and impactful. Not loud and in your face like if there was a big sign on Ellie saying "By the way, I'm lesbian in case you forgot" cause that would get kind of annoying for me. Just quietly emotional or subtle.
Pretty much how I see it. I also loved the fact that they didn't outright tell you Bill was gay, so ultimately I'd have to disagree with this article and I actually believe Naughty Dog isn't trying to make lesbianism one of Ellie's biggest defining traits, in fact I'd say they want the opposite, they want it to be something that's just there, just as it happens with heterosexual characters.
This tone-deafness throws me off.
Like, if her partner is killed by fireflies and that is part of the thrust of her revenge, that makes sense, right?
What is the difference if that partner is a man or woman? If it is the latter, does that mean it was "thrown in your face"? The writing in TLOU is pretty much the best part. Her established character is homosexual. These things can absolutely work in concert in TLOU2.
20 years later....
If he was 30 in the intro he was 50 in the main game.
We know from conversations with Ellie that Joel married young, university age. Assuming Sarah was born pretty early in the marriage, that would put him at late 20s in the intro.
She's saying that Ellie was gay in the first one, so she hopes they deal with that it the second. She's also been a queer film critic and recognises that the way Ellie is represented in the trailer is consistent with the way queer people have been represented in film.
Your jump to "she'll probably be outraged and write articles about it when Ellie isn't" is also super fucking lame.
Of course they can. But if nothing changed except for the fact that Joel was a gay trans man who gave birth to sarah people would say that would be shoving the LGBT agenda in their faces
Glass Rebel
Member
Why?
Why can't she just have a relationship that is also gay?
Why does there need to be "more"?
foxdvd
Member
Yeah I saw that quote after my post..so obviously that is going to influence the direction of the character...
But if he had not stated that he wanted her to be gay, I think it is unfair to millions of teenagers to just assume that a boy or a girl kissing someone, even passionately, makes them gay. Sexuality is complicated, and as we tear down discrimination and hatred...people are going to explore that part of themselves as teenagers with less fear....and self loathing.
Yup, fully agreed.
Loved how the aspect was realized in Left Behind but don't beat me over the head with it too bluntly. I want it to be a subtle, normal thing, not a blatant talking point for the sake of it.
Fortunately, I think the writers at ND understand this. Not sure about the writers at Waypoint, though.
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What is forcing it into the game? I highly doubt Ellie is going to be talking about fucking chicks left and right and waving a giant rainbow flag in the camera every chance she gets. I swear it sounds like someone of you thinking making a game more gay oriented somehow means they're going to dumb down the game mechanics.
It makes totally sense. But check the OP. Making the game "super gay" sounds like it should be the MAIN thing in TLOU2. I mean, what? Don't force it. See TLOU:LB. It just happened and it was awesome.
Glass Rebel
Member
what does this even mean
StrongBlackVine
Banned
I couldn't care less about Ellie's sexuality. Just make sure the writing and delivery is top notch wherever they take this.
howdyjacker
Member
EdibleExplosives
Member
ronaldthump
Member
but joel is such a hot daddy.
I hope they don't go anywhere near romance/sexuality.
I hope they don't go anywhere near romance/sexuality.
Ah, yeah, right. It was 20 years later. So yeah, late 20s. He should be around 48 with his grey beard
Lunafreya Nox Fleuret
Member
At the end of UC4 in the final chapter there are a bunch of posters and one of them shows a woman pregnant with a gas mask and a gun. It says TLOU American Daughters on the poster but the artist can't talk about it. Basically, people think this is Ellie's mother but it can even be Ellie for all we know but how would she be pregnant if she's lesbian?
...what???
ViolentP
Member
If there is no intention in exploring Ellie's sexuality in the games narrative, then it simply shouldn't be explored. If that lack of intention exists but they put it in anyway simply because people want broader representation, it will be forced.
A game like LoU tells a story. That story should be told as intended for better or worse. If they intend to explore it, then that's fantastic because it is a tale with that representation in mind and it will be delivered naturally and truthfully. If they don't, then that's fine too. That representation is best left to those with the honest intention of bringing light to the subject, honestly.
Your leap in logic is baffling. It's your kind of mentality that makes this subject so difficult to discuss because you immediately believe anyone that doesn't see things in your light is an asshole.
Cyborg
Member
People take gaming way to serious.
Zeyphersan
Banned
Guys guys guys, you clearly don't know how games are written. Game narratives (and really all narratives) come from the Story Well. It's this giant well that reaches into the center of the earth. The game director or writer comes along, dips their bucket into the well, and out comes the story, shiny and intact and full of white heteronormativity. Sometimes there may even be a gay character in there, but only if it's really subtle and not in your face to make you think about it too much. Sort of like a fun background thing.
But we all know the true risk here is forcing things in. Since we all know the narrative comes out full and complete (and isn't crafted by humans) whenever a person adds something to it they are forcing it in. This is especially risky when trying to add any representation, as the narrative is already done, so if you try to add in too many non-white or gay elements it disrupts the delicate balance! Suddenly you're forcing things in left and right and making people uncomfortable! Just let the representation come naturally from the Story Well and don't question anything and especially don't add things that aren't there originally.
But we all know the true risk here is forcing things in. Since we all know the narrative comes out full and complete (and isn't crafted by humans) whenever a person adds something to it they are forcing it in. This is especially risky when trying to add any representation, as the narrative is already done, so if you try to add in too many non-white or gay elements it disrupts the delicate balance! Suddenly you're forcing things in left and right and making people uncomfortable! Just let the representation come naturally from the Story Well and don't question anything and especially don't add things that aren't there originally.
Hari Seldon
Member
If he was 30 in the intro then he had his daughter at 16 which is extraordinarily young lol.
In TLOU, making the game good isn't just about getting the sneak sneak and the shootbang right, it's also about focusing on character development and story. That's what we're talking about here. Anyone complaining about probably doesn't really understand the utter normativity of heterosexual representation. It's flagrantly and shamelessly added to games left and right. There are hundreds if not thousands of games that reference a character's heterosexuality. We can have one AAA game featuring a lesbian. We really can, it'll be okay. Maybe you'll learn something.
Do you need to explore someone's "straightness?" If Ellie has a partner, someone important to her, why can't that be justification enough for its inclusion?
And having a protagonist who might very well happen to be gay isn't bringing light to the subject? I swear people make up some very elaborate reasons why being gay or touching on gay issues and subjects in gaming detracts from the game overall. They casually bring up Drake's heterosexuality in the the Uncharted series, sometimes not so casually as his marriage and relationship with Elena is a big part of the narrative. Why is it different for elements of homosexuality?
Shrike_Priest
Member
It was a game about two girls who hang out in an abandoned mall, listen to I've Got You Babe then kiss... Also, the writer has said repeatedly that Ellie was written as gay, at least in Left Behind. Not bi, not exploring, but gay. And it was released on fucking Valentine's Day.
I'm sorry, but she's gay.
Also note that TLOU also had a prominent male gay character.
The amount of rationalisation going on is crazy.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Ellie's already gay and there's nothing wrong with a positive message about LBGT people. You're willing to swallow any message except for when it comes to representation. Think about that for a second before saying that representing a gay woman might feel unnatural.
Basketball
Member
in 3 ... naw
Paracelsus
Member
Not lately, I'd say. Not even jrpg are known for good classic love stories any longer. When was the last Tales that ended that way. Graces?