Subtle as in it was there and gone, never mentioned again.
Waypoint: I Hope The Last of Us Part II is Super Gay (Spoilers)
- Thread starter Kenzodielocke
- Start date
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
While "never mentioned again" is technically true, "was there and gone" is not really the term I'd use to describe it, because it implies the scene has no consequence whatsoever. That scene was pivotal in stressing out just how much Ellie value her connection to Riley, and a big part of her character going forward through the events of TLOU.
RocknRola
Member
Are people really trying to dismiss the events of the DLC as "unconfirmed"?...Like...really? Does she need to write it on a greeting card or something? I felt it was pretty clear she was gay in the DLC and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. If anything it just made her far more interesting of a character.
Too subtle, clearly. Gotta toe that line between subtext and text for some reason or else it's "forced" and "pandering"
Audioboxer
Member
I get that man, it's just this is a big board and by nature of this place valuing open discussion and debate there is going to be a slew of opinion. A chunk of said opinion may be uncomfortable and at times unbelievable. It's largely best called out via discussion and debate. Some dissmisal and passion is fine, but as I said some just seem to cranked to 11 at all times that make it if you follow their posts as it's hard to miss them it's constantly "fuck this" and sheer rage in nearly every topic around social issues. I get the passion, it just makes for pretty tiring reading at times. I said earlier I understand it's probably just on me to ignore it, but I think it's valid in the wake of the election cycle and how hard it hit the OT to remember the overall values of GAF. In a totally unsided remark EviLore did say while obviously hate, bigots and other nastiness will be shutdown here quicker than the speed of light, trying to run people off or aggressively silence isn't this boards core values either. With the good you're going to sometimes take the bad. People often hold objectively shitty but not illegal or necessarily ban-able opinions. Often they need called out for the sake of social justice and a progressive and inclusive future, but there's many nuanced ways to try and call out and engage that aren't simply pitchfork mobs.
Put it this way you can take a packed public transport bus to work each day and sit around 30~50 people and not hear a peep of opinion, never know what said people deeply think, and hey maybe you even for sake of social nice-ities say hi to a few. You go on GAF and by the nature of a forum you are blasted with opinions and remarks 24/7, post histories and a constant feed of dissenting remarks and challenges of even your seemingly grounded and heartfelt beliefs. It's maybe best for some posters sanity to take a break from GAF every now and then if they find 1 in 3 posts they make is essentially a mini-heart attack in a post. I say that out of somewhat genuine concern for the posting trends of some lately, especially in the wake of the American election. Again, while I can empathise emotions run high in topics like this and there are many times you see some posts on here and have to shake your head, running into battle cranked to 11 with nearly everyone of these posts turns GAF into a somewhat scorched earth falacy far too often. This isn't concern trolling, police trolling, two sides trolling or whatever other passive aggressive rhetoric that is bounced about in abundance when some want to simply get someone else to shutup. It's observation. As I said I'll do better to ignore some posters (or more so individual posts by them, as often they ironically make for well thought out opinions in among their snark), I know rules aren't being broken, but hey, this and some of my other posts are just 2 cents opinion pieces on the nature of discussion on GAF the past few months. Dog-piling is understandable on a board with so many members, it's the added snark and aggression that seems to be more prevalent than ever that is making for hard reading at times.
Remember even within minorities there is varied opinion. People aren't all part of some grand group-think, where someone can egotistically think they speak for a whole community and anyone who disagrees is part of some warped "two sides" fallacy. In this topic alone I've counted some well thought out and remarked posts from members within the LGBT community offering their thoughts on how their sexuality doesn't define them. As 95% of us know Ellie is already a well written LGBT member, and is now taking story lead. So it's understandable some voices are looking at the OP and saying what more is expected from ND? I've offered thought out posts on TLoU world and story continuation and why I think expect dread, depression, revenge and despair well before romance, love and hope in TLoU part II. That isn't a bigoted opinion or concern trolling, it's thoughts coming from a massive TLoU fan who has paid attention to what Druckmann has said so far. Hence why the scorched earth policy carelessly chucks many out with the bath water that don't objectively deserve it. At times this shut downs discussion nearly as badly as the shit-tier posts, "sarcasm" and sadly poor opinions on diversity in gaming.
I never said it was forced or pandering.
Didn't specifically mean you, sorry. I just meant in general
Sevket-Erhat
Member
Very well said. She is a lesbian and let's leave it there
Astral Dog
Member
There are many , many Gay people who are still defined by their sexuality whatever they like it or not, their experiences, both good and bad, shapes them in an Heteronormative society, wich i think why they still need a strong sense of community.even if it wont always fit all tastes.
As for you i say you are just a bit shy to admit you are a big Gay hotie
Ganzlinger
Member
I remember Neil saying he imagined Ellie as being lesbian, so she is definitely a LGBT character, Left Behind is proof of that.
However, I don't remember if he unambiguously said she is gay or if he was talking about her concept and what he wanted, which doesn't necessarily translates into the actual character because there are other people involved in the production of the game story.
During the actual game, Ellie never identified herself as anything (and honestly, it's just fine). That said, I'm curious if they will explore her sexuality again, confirm that she is exclusively gay or if she is bi. I take that many people would be disappointed if she is bi, as that would be considered a step back? Or bisexual characters are also under represented?
However, I don't remember if he unambiguously said she is gay or if he was talking about her concept and what he wanted, which doesn't necessarily translates into the actual character because there are other people involved in the production of the game story.
During the actual game, Ellie never identified herself as anything (and honestly, it's just fine). That said, I'm curious if they will explore her sexuality again, confirm that she is exclusively gay or if she is bi. I take that many people would be disappointed if she is bi, as that would be considered a step back? Or bisexual characters are also under represented?
PulseONE
Member
Some posts in here make me real disappointed GAF :|
Ya'll get to play straight white male protagonists in 80% of games out there, but its a big deal if we get a gay lead in one?
Maybe someday we'll even get a gay male lead in a AAA game, but that's probably not for a while I feel.
Its odd how some of you don't see why representation is important. Its one thing if you live in a country where homophobia isn't a big deal, but imagine how important it could be to someone living in a place where it IS commonplace. From experience (in my country gay sex can land you in jail) I can tell you that you have a low sense of self worth where even the laws are against you. You feel like you're trapped in a cage for all of your life, and if you step out of it you'll be ripped to shreds.
But...thanks to popular media, television, movies, etc over the past few years I can visibly see things changing ever so slightly. Suddenly there are more people who are coming out, more people who aren't homophobic, more people, even straight ones, who will stand against homophobia.
Representation matters. It's thanks to representation that countries like mine actually have groups that stand up for us because more and more people are getting used to the idea of gay people in their lives. It's easy to say its not important if you live somewhere where you don't see the oppression.
Gaming is a new media, and not only that but its the fastest growing and one of the most popular forms of it. It has power just as much as TV and movies do. Representation in the gaming space matters.
Ya'll get to play straight white male protagonists in 80% of games out there, but its a big deal if we get a gay lead in one?
Maybe someday we'll even get a gay male lead in a AAA game, but that's probably not for a while I feel.
Its odd how some of you don't see why representation is important. Its one thing if you live in a country where homophobia isn't a big deal, but imagine how important it could be to someone living in a place where it IS commonplace. From experience (in my country gay sex can land you in jail) I can tell you that you have a low sense of self worth where even the laws are against you. You feel like you're trapped in a cage for all of your life, and if you step out of it you'll be ripped to shreds.
But...thanks to popular media, television, movies, etc over the past few years I can visibly see things changing ever so slightly. Suddenly there are more people who are coming out, more people who aren't homophobic, more people, even straight ones, who will stand against homophobia.
Representation matters. It's thanks to representation that countries like mine actually have groups that stand up for us because more and more people are getting used to the idea of gay people in their lives. It's easy to say its not important if you live somewhere where you don't see the oppression.
Gaming is a new media, and not only that but its the fastest growing and one of the most popular forms of it. It has power just as much as TV and movies do. Representation in the gaming space matters.
SebastianM
Member
Sure, why not? Naughty dog has a really complex character on their hands and it would add more to her development, we already got a taste of it in Left Behind.
Did these people seriously get banned over this? I thought GAF was a place that promoted respectful, non-offensive freedom of speech? I don't get it, I hope I don't get banned as well.
Did these people seriously get banned over this? I thought GAF was a place that promoted respectful, non-offensive freedom of speech? I don't get it, I hope I don't get banned as well.
Oppo
Member
saw the thread title and thought, welp, that will be radioactive for at least 10 pages.
brief thoughts, as they occurred to me –
– that headline sucks. sorry Danielle. big fan. but it's a really poor, really cynical title. of course a lot of people are going to read "super gay" as "giant flaming broadway play" gay and of course that sounds like a comically bad idea for a series like The Last of Us. "I hope next season of Walking Dead is super gay". They knew it would get clicks and rile folks up. Which is, I suppose, good headline writing in a way, but it just feels really ill-considered. (no, I didn't see "Melissa Etheridge", what the fuck is that about. context, woman!)
– Ellie is already gay, it is known. I liked how they handled Bill, so I am utterly unconcerned with how Naughty Dog portrays her, because so far they are 2 or 2. There's no way they are gonna ignore that aspect (especially after Riley) but will it be front-and-center? No. Why would it?
I could see an Ellie romance very early on being the impetus for the revenge story. Maybe a former partner gets killed. But this isn't gonna be a love story, and probably shouldn't be. It's gonna be a tragedy.
This is getting a little close to all the insipid "shipping" chatter that happens with beloved series. Which is self-indulgent at best and myopically poisonous at worst.
As pointed out earlier, really over-the-top gay characters were horrible stereotypes in media up until recently, so let's not yell about "any representation is good". Of course it isn't. If the villain were a twisted sadistic gay character the choir would be up in arms about Othering and all that.
brief thoughts, as they occurred to me –
– that headline sucks. sorry Danielle. big fan. but it's a really poor, really cynical title. of course a lot of people are going to read "super gay" as "giant flaming broadway play" gay and of course that sounds like a comically bad idea for a series like The Last of Us. "I hope next season of Walking Dead is super gay". They knew it would get clicks and rile folks up. Which is, I suppose, good headline writing in a way, but it just feels really ill-considered. (no, I didn't see "Melissa Etheridge", what the fuck is that about. context, woman!)
– Ellie is already gay, it is known. I liked how they handled Bill, so I am utterly unconcerned with how Naughty Dog portrays her, because so far they are 2 or 2. There's no way they are gonna ignore that aspect (especially after Riley) but will it be front-and-center? No. Why would it?
I could see an Ellie romance very early on being the impetus for the revenge story. Maybe a former partner gets killed. But this isn't gonna be a love story, and probably shouldn't be. It's gonna be a tragedy.
This is getting a little close to all the insipid "shipping" chatter that happens with beloved series. Which is self-indulgent at best and myopically poisonous at worst.
As pointed out earlier, really over-the-top gay characters were horrible stereotypes in media up until recently, so let's not yell about "any representation is good". Of course it isn't. If the villain were a twisted sadistic gay character the choir would be up in arms about Othering and all that.
She was a 14 year old girl that kissed her friend.
Don't really know if you can talk about a gay character here.
Audioboxer
Member
Offering nothing other than "I don't care" in a topic will get you banned. Notice how some of those who have got flak for unpopular opinion in here aren't banned, but those that just stopped by to say "I don't care"/"Why make this topic?" are? Incredibly toxic way to behave on a message board. Without discussion on any topics (besides those that are illegal/genuinely pointless and get mod locked) we wouldn't have a messageboard.
Feel free to disagree with a topic, writer or article, but at least give 2 minutes of your time to type out an argument other people can interact with. "I don't care" offerings nothing. All it usually does is antagonizes people wanting to spend time debating in a topic.
I mostly agree. While straight people, especially men, are largely catered too, look at how objectively terrible 75% of written characters are in games. Someone said in here earlier they don't care if the character is fucking terrible, as long as the LGBT checkbox is ticked for representation. I do suggest expectations should be held a bit higher, you really aren't missing out on much with the slew of non-charismatic, poorly written, brain dead male shit shows gaming shovels our way.
If anything ND should be praised in general for how well they write many of their characters, straight, gay, male, female or whatever else. Even Drake while he fills a power fantasy Indiana Jones -esque role is still top tier at doing that. Versus say Marcus Fenix or any other amazing cardboard thin bald space marine AAA games throw our way.
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
Except for like the most important parts of the base game
"I have lost people too Joel"
"Everyone I have ever cared about has either left me or died"
"Back in Boston, back when I was bitten, I wasn't alone. Her name was Riley and she was the first to die."
If her being gay is not only just mentioned but actually important in the sequel, I'll buy the game day 1.
Because it does matter. Because I remember being a little girl and thinking I was broken. And because I remember the feeling of finally realizing that I wasn't.
And I'll forever be thankful to Willow and Tara for that feeling.
Representation in the entertainment we enjoy is more important than we realize.
Because it does matter. Because I remember being a little girl and thinking I was broken. And because I remember the feeling of finally realizing that I wasn't.
And I'll forever be thankful to Willow and Tara for that feeling.
Representation in the entertainment we enjoy is more important than we realize.
Oppo
Member
I wonder what would happen – as in, how fans would react – if Ellie was indisputably gay in the game, and turns indisputably evil by the end. Think Walter White. I'm not so sure that would be hailed as a victory for gay representation, even though it probably would be, at least on a literary level, if done with the same quality as Breaking Bad.
(Or – if Ellie was indisputably gay, but so fucking butch that she out-alpha-Bro's Duke Nukem, and we wonder if we've actually made progress, ha!)
It's not Naughty Dog's responsibility to move this bar. It's just great that they do.milena87 said:
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
It's called shit posting.
You go into a topic, about minority characters getting to be the main character and lead role, and then go "oh, well I don't care, just make sure the game is good!!!".
If you don't care so much that you have to literally say it in a topic like this, which has been controversial in the past (See Left Behind), then what's the point of basically hand waving away the conversation by saying it doesn't matter?
The reason this type of shit is so vigorously and instantly thrown down and shit on, is because it's the most common tactic to dismiss non-white/gay characters in media and any attempt to branch from the norm.
In a lot of the cases, it's a poorly disguised attempt at basically saying that anyone who isn't a common character archetype is pandering to liberals/SJW (this has been posted on GAF, specifically in the Ellie is the main character in TLoU II thread).
When it comes to most common things said for gay characters, it's always, "I don't care, as long as they develop a good character". Which is basically saying that if you want to have a gay character, they need to be one step above everyone else because obviously it's pandering and if you want to make the case to everyone else, you gotta blow their socks off!
Which is ridiculous, and a pitfall I personally followed a few years ago till I started to figure out how stupid it was.
Audioboxer
Member
Well it depends on what the individual values. As I said above I've seen at least one post in here just pretty much say checking the LGBT checkbox does it for them. A few others seemingly want Ellie to wear an "I'm gay" t-shirt for some sort of in your face confirmation. Neither attitudes as I said above I think offer much respect for representation, from a developer who's already proven they will do things with class, not just to check a box and earn social brownie points. Most do seem to be wanting some fleshed out relationship/tackling of same sex relationships. Which to I say have expectations in check. Not because Druckmann and ND want to shatter what you want, but because they are writing to a defined post apocalyptic world with a first entry that ended in a very exact way.
Druckmann has also said on record the themes of TLoU part II will be dark, lending credence to my opinion of expect part II to be about revenge, despair, death, depression and insanity. If you go into that expecting a rom-com and some happy ending then sadly while I don't want to offend you, I'd have to say your expectations of what you want represented are off base for the material we are dealing with.
As you said above and from the trailer it's very possible Ellie is going to turn into a psychopathic murderer given what she's going to find out about Joel and the world she's grown up in. It was much easier to take the lighter attitude in Left Behind for a break of pace, and because it was a prequel. This isn't a prequel, it's a sequel to a game that ended in a pretty fucking dark way.
I'm gay and while I'd love to see more homosexual / bisexual romances in RPGs, I don't care if my hero is straight or gay. Yes, I'd love to play The Witcher 3 with a gay character but I'm ok with the fact that it can't work for Geralt because he is straight.
Fallout 4 destroyed everything I hoped when I started the game : my character has a wife / (husband if I play a woman) and a child. Ok, I don't mind playing a straight and father character (just like TLOU). But then, after mourning on the corpse of his wife in the prologue, a few hours later Preston was hitting on me and my character was perfectly ok to romance him like he never had any wife and never cried over her dead body.
I love gay romances, but not this way, feel so empty.
Fallout 4 destroyed everything I hoped when I started the game : my character has a wife / (husband if I play a woman) and a child. Ok, I don't mind playing a straight and father character (just like TLOU). But then, after mourning on the corpse of his wife in the prologue, a few hours later Preston was hitting on me and my character was perfectly ok to romance him like he never had any wife and never cried over her dead body.
I love gay romances, but not this way, feel so empty.
Oppo
Member
ah that's just Frozenprince shooting from the hip. if you pressed them on that you'd probably get some modulation.
Frozenprince said:
Jame Gumb/Buffalo Bill, for instance, is not hailed as an amazing representation of a nonbinary character in film.
There are probably close to zero canonically bisexual characters in video games, especially ones that are actually characters. As a bi dude, I'd be totally fine with her being bi. It's a little harder to express/write out, but absolutely doable.
RipperGrim
Member
Judging by the pain and anger on Ellie's face in the trailer I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out the people she's after killed someone she was in a relationship with, considering that Joel's still alive (Well maybe) it's something thing that would make sense for her to want to kill them so badly. I also don't doubt that Naughty would shy away from showing an intimate gay relationship.
Messofanego
Banned
LISA the Painful RPG is a super gay post apocalypse, but not exactly very strong relationships since everyone is a pervert in a men-dominated world
Killer Queen
Banned
Inferno313
Banned
Of course, there's a lot of complexities when it comes to human sexuality. Not denying that. I'm more responding to the folks who are acting like Left Behind was ambiguous in that moment, and I can't see a reality where it was.
From the opening of that DLC, that relationship is framed and built-up as a romantic narrative. It uses a bunch of the tropes of an adolescent coming-of-age romance story. That moment was the furthest thing from "Just a little kiss" as a bunch of people in this thread have tried to act like it was. It was an incredibly romantic, and then tragic, moment for Ellie.
Whether adult Ellie is completely homosexual, bisexual, pansexual, or whatever wasn't really my point. My point is that the narrative of Left Behind is decidedly, absolutely an adolescent romance story between two young women. There's no valid argument that positions Left Behind as anything other than a love story, in my eyes.
GlamFM
Banned
What?
MoogleWizard
Member
I don't care for the game but the protagonist being a young lesbian or bi girl would be really cool.
Has there ever been a queer protagonist in an AAA game? I can only think of player created characters in Bioware games but no real "canon" character. There was Vanille in FFXIII but it was only hinted at. Nothing else comes to mind. That's pretty darn sad tbh.
Has there ever been a queer protagonist in an AAA game? I can only think of player created characters in Bioware games but no real "canon" character. There was Vanille in FFXIII but it was only hinted at. Nothing else comes to mind. That's pretty darn sad tbh.
Moon Presence
Member
"My sexuality absolutely friggin defines me." Dying with laughter.
About Ellie: I hope they do something on that matter, at least it's different and and a lot of doors were open in Left Behind, at least story wise.
About Ellie: I hope they do something on that matter, at least it's different and and a lot of doors were open in Left Behind, at least story wise.
I don't understand the second part of your criticism. Romance in Fallout 4 is initiated by the player. If you feel like it's inappropriate for your character then you don't act on their advances.
Establishing a character's sexuality and then not considering it when crafting how she interacts with others in the world would be incredibly poor storytelling. So, to make you comfortable you'd like Naughty Dog to forget all about their craft and have Ellie simply disappear into the closet again? Nice.
While the headline is a little over the top, I agree with the sentiment in the referenced article. Let Ellie be a strong gay character and let those who are unhappy about it either miss out or struggle on until they learn something about the range of human experience.
I hope Ellie does have a partner but instead of wanting revenge for her partner, it's revenge for another potential cure. One who dies early in the game.
A story where she tries to help a potential cure get to scientists. Scientists who ultimately kill this character and fail to get a cure. Ellie goes off like a time bomb.
Spoilers for the end of the first game.
The meat of the game should be Joel working Ellie up on the revenge gig, with Ellie's lover/partner being alive and better used as a rational point of view trying to save Ellie from turning her back on her own humanity on yet another Murder Quest.
I think something deeper can be done with Ellie's sexuality than the standard, revenge for lover plot. Regardless I look forward to seeing who she is involved with, be it a long or short appearance within the plot.
A story where she tries to help a potential cure get to scientists. Scientists who ultimately kill this character and fail to get a cure. Ellie goes off like a time bomb.
Spoilers for the end of the first game.
Doing this would mirror the end of Joel's story in the first game, somewhat justifying his some of his actions and working to build back up the players acceptance of him.
The meat of the game should be Joel working Ellie up on the revenge gig, with Ellie's lover/partner being alive and better used as a rational point of view trying to save Ellie from turning her back on her own humanity on yet another Murder Quest.
I think something deeper can be done with Ellie's sexuality than the standard, revenge for lover plot. Regardless I look forward to seeing who she is involved with, be it a long or short appearance within the plot.
That sounds awesome, I'd be so down.
What does that mean?
For example, Nathan Drake's relationships with Elena and Chloe are defined, to some extent, by mutual sexual attraction. His attempts to balance his treasure hunting with his heterosexual marriage are a large part of his character arc in the last two Uncharted games.
Would Ellie being attracted to a female character she meets go too far for you? Flirting? A romantic relationship that progresses over the course of the game along with the plot?
CornBurrito
Member
Sexuality defines most people. Most people do attempt to find happiness by finding long term romantic partners. We even have a whole institution surrounding it called Marriage.
Also for what it is worth, we didn't decide to make our orientation the focal point of our existence. The people who discriminate against us because of the simple fact we are romantically and sexually inclined toward the same sex forced us to create community identities to protect ourselves from violence and validate our self worth.
Most straight people dont even have to think about holding their lover's hand in public. I do. And yet because I actually am concerned about being able to do so I get shit on for "letting my sexuality define me".
EdibleKnife
Member
Whether she's gay or bi, I indeed hope that ND is unapologetic about it if it makes its way into the story. Also don't know why there are any concerns about gameplay suffering at its expense as though resources will somehow be taken away gameplay wise to wax on about Ellie's sexuality. Since when has that ever been a problem in any ND game?
Damn skippy. More people need to internalize this mindset. My sexual orientation and race are major parts of my identity not simply because of how visible they are but how much society at large spends focused on marginalizing me because of them.
Damn skippy. More people need to internalize this mindset. My sexual orientation and race are major parts of my identity not simply because of how visible they are but how much society at large spends focused on marginalizing me because of them.
Yeah they were most likely banned for these remarks because we get the same remarks all the time and they add nothing to the conversation and honestly detract from it. Worse they get reposted over and over again by people calling out what a shitty response they are and further negating meaningful conversation. Not only that but they're incredible insensitive and ignorant.
cyborgnumberblue
Member
While I don't disregard the fact that Ellie kissing Riley was "gay", I don't necessarily believe that there was a clear indicator that she was definitively homosexual, and that's partly why I enjoyed it and didn't find it forced or unnecessary like many critics have called it.
In the world they inhabit, its entirely obvious that the nature of interpersonal relationships has changed (almost every person the player encounters in this game tries to kill you) and thus expressions and valuation of those relationships would change, as well. In turn, this would ultimately mean gender roles changing, as well. I found Ellie and Riley's relationship to be more organic to the world the game was portraying, where they value each other as other people they actually can trust and have a true human connection with.
I am certainly not trying to discredit or imply that there is no value in having representation for homosexual audiences as a whole. However, if this new game included Ellie having a new romantic love interest (which considering the tone and premise, I don't think it necessarily should) and it happened to be a man, I wouldn't find myself surprised.
I'm all for either direction; looking forward to this game very much.
In the world they inhabit, its entirely obvious that the nature of interpersonal relationships has changed (almost every person the player encounters in this game tries to kill you) and thus expressions and valuation of those relationships would change, as well. In turn, this would ultimately mean gender roles changing, as well. I found Ellie and Riley's relationship to be more organic to the world the game was portraying, where they value each other as other people they actually can trust and have a true human connection with.
I am certainly not trying to discredit or imply that there is no value in having representation for homosexual audiences as a whole. However, if this new game included Ellie having a new romantic love interest (which considering the tone and premise, I don't think it necessarily should) and it happened to be a man, I wouldn't find myself surprised.
I'm all for either direction; looking forward to this game very much.
Frozenprince
Banned
Because he's not one. At no point is he viewed as someone on the spectrum, he's mentally imbalanced.
If they want to make a gay character the bad guy there is nothing wrong with that as long as it's not insulting. Any representation is good. I don't need an Oscar winning fucking performance to justify bring able to play a queer.
Even if we don't count the kiss, I thought Neil later confirmed in an interview that Ellie was always gay in his mind? He sometimes contradicts himself though. In the original TLOU Making of he says his idea was to make a character without any sexual traits, which kinda goes against the notion itself.
Even then, I'm sure she'll be "super gay" in TLOU 2, I wouldn't worry about it.
Even then, I'm sure she'll be "super gay" in TLOU 2, I wouldn't worry about it.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Besides the writers very clearly saying "Yes she's homosexual. That entire thing was written with it in mind."
People seemingly so rarely interact with homosexuals that they expect the interaction to be drastically different from two heterosexual people interacting with each other, the neck biting, the stares and awkward pauses. These are all incredibly obvious signs of attraction that don't get a second look or any sort of speculation, no one would wonder about or question a scene like this if Riley was male:
^
"But is there really a clear indicator tho."
cyborgnumberblue
Member
I don't wonder about it, they are clearly attracted to each other. That was never my point. My point was that both these characters are born 6 years into a 20 year period of absolute societal collapse. What they value in emotional attachment to other people/partners is going to be different than what people born before it. I'd imagine sexual proclivity and the nature of romantic relationship to be a much more fluid thing considering that.
Anyways, I am unaware of the developers stating overtly that she was homosexual, so my bad if that's the case. If she's gay, she's gay and that's it.
Frozenprince
Banned
There is no debate to be had. None. The idea that there is any to be had is fucking insane. My life and the lives of others is not an intellectual fucking debate on the merits of my existence and representation.
Gay people deserve equitable representation. Period. If you don't agree with that then you have hatred in your heart. Period.
Just like there being black protagonists in games is not a debate. Just like any other ethnic minority or sexual minority getting represented. There is no debate. None.
The only reason this discussion comes up Again and again is because it makes people uncomfortable and feel gross when these things happen.
Gay people deserve equitable representation. Period. If you don't agree with that then you have hatred in your heart. Period.
Just like there being black protagonists in games is not a debate. Just like any other ethnic minority or sexual minority getting represented. There is no debate. None.
The only reason this discussion comes up Again and again is because it makes people uncomfortable and feel gross when these things happen.
Gravy Boat
Member
As long as the writing and gameplay is as engaging as the first game, I'm all up for super gay Ellie. I think have a gay lead would be really interesting as it's not really seen in games, and I trust Naughty Dog to represent it well. Doesn't need to be subtle, they can throw it about as much as they want, if the game is a flop it won't be because of a gay lead character.
Besides the writers very clearly saying "Yes she's homosexual. That entire thing was written with it in mind."
People seemingly so rarely interact with homosexuals that they expect the interaction to be drastically different from two heterosexual people interacting with each other, the neck biting, the stares and awkward pauses. These are all incredibly obvious signs of attraction that don't get a second look or any sort of speculation, no one would wonder about or question a scene like this if Riley was male:
^
"But is there really a clear indicator tho."
i can almost literally see sparks flying. so fucking obvious, haha.
Frozenprince
Banned
People are so conditioned by heteronormativity that they don't even register the possibility that these two are giving each other the fuck me eyes for basically every scene they are in together.
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
It was kinda subtle for Left Behind.
Up until the photo-booth that is.
Once they had that "So......" moment. I literally screamed "OOOOOOHHHHHHHH", making this face
Hey man, it's hard to find good quality gifs sometimes!
Up until the photo-booth that is.
Once they had that "So......" moment. I literally screamed "OOOOOOHHHHHHHH", making this face
Hey man, it's hard to find good quality gifs sometimes!