blankempathy
Member
By that definition Xenogears disc 2 was a complete experience.
FFXV's future updates adjust chapters, add cutscenes, add playable characters, more
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By that definition Xenogears disc 2 was a complete experience.
yeah man, not sure where all this hate is coming from, I just finished the game at 100 hours and I loved it, still have quite a few side things to do.
I see these updates and think cool, more reason to keep playing or replaying.
Yeah it's sure wrong to ask for things to be complete at first and not when the game has released for a week already.
Glass Rebel
Member
This isn't even close to what's happening.
Never played Xenogears, can't answer that.
Can anyone defend that second disc? Who am i kidding.
ArkhamFantasy
Member
These arent bug fixes, this is a large 80 hour game that they are adding some things to, just like pretty much every game that comes out now.
They're not changing the ending or anything like that. They're adding a scene with Ravus to give the character a little more screen time. It's just something that originally happened offscreen.
As far as we know, it could also be optional. There are a few of those already, after all.
Elven_Star
Member
I don't remember people calling out CD Projekt Red for releasing an "incomplete" game at launch. Specifically, when they fixed their messy UI one year later. Making improvements is not the same thing as completing a game, you know. It's just cool to hate Final Fantasy around here.
It was finished but not perfect. I look forward to it becoming perfect and I hope they give me enough reason to replay the game with new game +
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
It's just amazing that this news is upsetting people. I can understand having problems with the game, but problems with adding to it? Shouldn't that be a good thing?
It's unfortunate it needs to be tweaked, but it being tweaked is great news
Sure seems that way reading some responses in here
Some people can defend the second half of FFXV so y'know, anything can happen.
But this means I need a second playthrough to get the full experience, which I don't have time to do because of my studies. That frustrates me a bit.
Vincent Grayson
Member
I was perfectly fine with it back when the game came out. I mean sure, it was a major shift, but I wasn't pissed off about it or anything, nor did I feel ripped off, considering the game was 50+ hours as it was.
But it's not. People have said multiple times, no one is complaining that they're fixing things. The anger is at them releasing a clearly unfinished product. It shouldn't have needed these patches in the first place, as nice as it is that they're fixing them and not just leaving it.
I don't understand how people aren't getting this.
Glass Rebel
Member
Then you're lacking some serious reading-comprehension skills.
People are complaining about the practice of releasing an unfinished game that has to be completed after launch, not the fact that they're fixing it.
To be fair I think they did. It's just CD Projekt Red was smarter to not consolidate the free skins into updates and heavily advertise them everywhere as free stuffs you can download TODAY! so people moved on from that slideshow swamp to cheer and worship like they're the only one studio out there that gives out free optional content.
Peroroncino
Member
I'm not sure fixing messy UI can be even compared to adding story, cutscenes and playable characters.
But maybe I'm wrong.
Darkstorne
Member
If we were talking about bugs, then sure. But we're talking about major plot points and character developments missing from the game. The devs kept telling us the game was being delayed to ensure you could play from the disc without needing a patch. They said everything up to chapter 5 was great but that they needed time to bring the rest of the game up to those standards. After all the delays they released it and it's still got all those problems they claimed it wouldn't have.
In an ideal world, they would have delayed another year or two to get this all sorted. Accordo needed an open world. Tenebrae needed an open world. Gralea needed to be an incredible cityscape and not an endless copy/pasted corridor. Instead we've now played through a game that had an amazing first third, and awful final two thirds. To the point that the first third of the story is well over half of the game. For many people the damage is done and the story they waited so long for is a mess. Now they're being told to replay it when some patches are done, because as it turns out they shipped a game they knew was incomplete.
guybrushfreeman
Unconfirmed Member
I wanted the game I paid for and spent time with on day one to be complete. It's actually extremely simple. Get it ready in time for launch, delay it or don't bother. Continuing to edit the story after release is like saying 'fuck you for buying day one buddy! Thanks for paying us to beta test!' I don't want to play it a second time and I don't want to miss anything. If we had this information before I wouldn't have wasted my money or time on an incomplete product. People deserve a complete product. Editing the story after release is not anything bug and performance fixes.
I don't think it is. Now that SquareEnix has shilpped 5 million copies+ they gave the team the money and "go" to update the game further... It seems!
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
I don't know, it just seems a bit like looking a gift horse in the mouth to me. Maybe that's because I view it as analogous to a Xenogears disc 2 situation and we would have NEVER gotten that patched or fixed in any way back in the day.
I do share the sentiments that releasing a wonky game is bad form. Choosing to add to a game post release does not make the initial release "incomplete," however.
Would you prefer it not get edited at all?
So, again, comparing it to FF XII. Would you say FF XII was an unfinished game because during the second part we don't even know what the hell is happening with the game story and many things happen off screen?
Would you say it was an unfinished game because they released a year later Zodiac Edition with player roles and so many improvements?
blankempathy
Member
The first disc is your standard rpg experience with cut scenes, running around exploring the world, dungeons, etc. Basically what you'd expect from any rpg. A good chunk of disc 2's plot is basically presented as a story book for you to read and you're teleported around to play out key events. They clearly ran out of money/time. It does technically wrap up the story though. Even if the first disc feels like a different game in terms of presentation.
YankeeDonB
Member
This seems perhaps the fairest comparison. Weird story framing aside, what's shipped is pretty great I'd say. Since, after 10 years, I'm playing and enjoying XV, I don't have it in me to get too worked up about this.
We knew other playable characters would come later as DLC since they announced the season pass. We knew Noctis would be the only playable character in the main game for years. I honestly can't see how anyone would consider adding playable characters post-launch anything other than additional content. You need to be extremely cynical to consider it "the actual finished game".
Story and cutscenes I can agree depending on the content, for sure. But the example we have so far (a cutscene about Ravus) is really not convincing me, at all. Maybe if they start giving more examples of major stuff.
Ha, first thing I thought when I saw the chapter 13 fixes was "I wish they'd release a patch for Lost Izalith". Even now, I'd still gladly take it.
Elven_Star
Member
How did you come up with this "huge chunk" theory?
Nobody cared because nobody cared about the story or the background lore of Dark Souls (or, at least, they cared to a lesser extent), the focus of Dark Souls is on the gameplay, the bosses, the difficulty, and it was on point for every one of these aspects.
The focus of Final Fantasy is on the story, alongside some other points, and it's a complete mess here. That's the point.
I spent the last few weeks replaying Bloodborne and playing Pokemon Sun and Moon.
I was going to play this next but... what in the actual fuck is this. Is the game not completed?
Dark Souls was not a big budget game, never promised a story experiance, and has been rightfully criticized for the second half while only having a fraction of the current fanbase that FFXV has. FFXV being a game that was in development for nearly a decade. I'm pretty sure it took like 5 years for DS to sell as many copies as FFXV did day 1.... so you comparison is laughably non sequitur.
I was going to play this next but... what in the actual fuck is this. Is the game not completed?
Dark Souls was not a big budget game, never promised a story experiance, and has been rightfully criticized for the second half while only having a fraction of the current fanbase that FFXV has. FFXV being a game that was in development for nearly a decade. I'm pretty sure it took like 5 years for DS to sell as many copies as FFXV did day 1.... so you comparison is laughably non sequitur.
Who cares about the lore? it's all in them youtube videos anyway!
#fuckitemdescriptions.
They never really fixed Dragon Ass valley and the other shitty areas.
SafeinSound
Member
I think I'm still gonna just keep playing it. I'm not super far into it and I've been enjoying myself tremendously thus far. Does this put a sour taste in my mouth? Yes. I just really don't feel like going back to the game with what could be months from now.
StoppedInTracks
Member
Don't touch the fucking story or lame-ass Chapter. FF13 was full of those and its the charm of new-age FF games.
Give us BESTIARY first.
Give us BESTIARY first.
Glass Rebel
Member
Yes, I would call Final Fantasy XII an unfinished game. Even Zodiac Edition was an unfinished game because it didn't fix what was left unfinished in the original release.
Would I call Final Fantasy XII a bad game? No, I wouldn't. And I haven't called FFXV a bad game either.
Oh yeah, that's another good comparison.
I remember people said Artorias DLC was great because From wanted to expand the lore and the story, even praised them for it.
YankeeDonB
Member
Yeah, although it's a shame the story has the holes it does, this sounds like fleshing out, as opposed to drastically changing. Also it sounds from how it's worded that the added post-game characters are just the guests you had during the actual game.
Vincent Grayson
Member
The game is complete. The fact that they're listening to some complaints about a particular character and chapter and are interested in addressing those complaints does not make the game incomplete.
That said, if you want the definitive experience of just about any game now, you don't buy it at launch. You wait a year or two until all the DLC and patches are done, and then buy it.
Darkstorne
Member
Pretty much. I can completely understand the money issue and why it had to be pushed out the door. I just wish they'd chosen to make the game a trilogy instead:
XV-1: Ends with Leviathan as the final boss and the destruction of Altissia. All dev time that HAD been spent on cramming together the rest of the story would instead have been spent on creating an open world for Accordo with Altissia as a city-hub. Cor could have directed Noct to new tombs around Accordo (maybe some past kings married Accordo wives and wanted to be buried with them, etc).
XV-2: Open world for Cartanica and Tenebrae (mmm, forests and mountains, and that architecture!) Much more character development for Ravus. Help defend Tenebrae from a demon assault, and ultimately help evacuate. Big Shiva battle. Story closes in Gralea, set in amazing cityscapes instead of endless copy/pasted corridors, with Noct being absorbed by the crystal.
XV-3: Noct returns ten years later, helps fight back against the demon hordes across a world consumed by darkness. Restores the light of the crystal to various points across the whole world. Instead of the world slowly getting darker with longer nights, you witness your efforts slowly making the days longer. Big final battle of epic proportions in Insomnia.
All released two years apart. Trilogy edition released afterwards for PC and PS5. I CAN DREAM!
SoulUnison
Banned
It's not modifying the story, though, it's just moving some of it on-screen.
Certinty
Member
Pretty much finished everything in the game but if I hadn't I wouldn't bother waiting for these patches to complete it.
I mean not even more cutscenes and what not can fix that story so that's a pretty meh addition.
The new playable characters stuff seems great though, will give me a reason to get back into the game a while down the line.
I mean not even more cutscenes and what not can fix that story so that's a pretty meh addition.
The new playable characters stuff seems great though, will give me a reason to get back into the game a while down the line.