That is indeed one of the shows that I found to be overrated and too long.
2016-17 TV Cancellations Thread: TNT finds "Nothing can come of nothing."
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That is indeed one of the shows that I found to be overrated and too long.
I finished it last night...It was a fun dumb ride that fell apart at the final episode. Also, the sex scenes/nudity was odd considering the characters were underage and in High School.
morningbus
Serious Sam is a wicked gahbidge series for chowdaheads.
I think even most people who love them would agree that the Marvel Netflix shows would be better as six episode seasons.
And there would still be filler and weak villains.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
no just their superhero garbage.
Also; House of Garbage
Grizzlyjin
Supersonic, idiotic, disconnecting, not respecting, who would really ever wanna go and top that
No, there just isn't any quality control. It's obviously more about quantity to hide the holes in their catalogs from film studios bailing. They slap a Netflix Original label on anything and everything. I feel like a lot of gratification from these shows is coming from how they're being watched, more than the quality. If something like Narcos was on The History Channel, almost nobody would be talking about it. So we get these really quick bursts of interest in a show, and then nobody cares a month after it has premiered.
It is not that it is bad, it is that it is so overhyped it can only disappoint.
dead souls
Member
I almost never quit shows and I gave up on that after one season.
WaffleTaco
Wants to outlaw technological innovation.
Did you watch Season 2 at all? Most agree that Season 1 is great TV with 2 being only okay and 3 being pointless. Season 4 is a step in the right direction, but real life is more entertaining than this show.
AngmarsKing701
Member
My wife and I made it to halfway thru S3 and then the election hit. No interest in going back to it at the moment. I get too much crazy in the Trump news every day to extend that to the fictional world.
PHOENIXZERO
Member
I lost interest in House of Cards not far into season two after rushing through the first.
RatskyWatsky
Hunky Nostradamus
It really depends on what your definition of 'great' is, though I think that most critics would at least agree that Orange is the New Black and BoJack Horseman are legitimately great shows.
I think Netflix has a remarkably consistent track record of making - merely - good shows. Like, most aren't Great, but most aren't Bad either. The majority of them are at the very least competent, well made, and mildly compelling, which is a huge feat.
Problem is that most critics agree the same on Gilmore Girls, Daredevil, Jessica Jones, ...
iceblade997
Member
Yeah the way they're handling Designated Survivor is such a shame considering the show so far is managing to remain rather interesting. And the past few episodes we've gotten so far also had interruptions as well so it's not even been consistent. Hopefully the show can survive but like you say it really looks like a gamble, and it makes me just want to wait to the end of the season to watch instead.
It really is, especially considering how long they've been making shows and (especially for 2017 coming up) how many shows they are putting out each year. It seems to me like It is legitimately becoming "normal" to expect something new or added to each week, and keeping the quality relatively high on such a scale is genuinely impressive. Not sure how they do it but it really does seem to be working very well...
And they are right
Well I havent seen Gilmore Girls but I like the Marvel shows, especially DD. They could use with some trimming to like 10 or even 8 eps per season tho.
They are not. The Marvel shows are too long, which combined with the tendency to discourage procedural stuff means filler, filler and filler. Jessica Jones could lose five episodes without changing anything to the story. They also abuse the format, ending in cliffhangers that don't make sense when you can just have the sequel five seconds later.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
Here comes The Hottest Netflix Tier List Ever (scores are averages across seasons or until I gave up on them, alphabetical within score category)
Great:
Bloodline (oh yes)
Bojack Horseman
Chef's Table
Chef's Table: France
F is for Family
Happy Valley
Making a Murderer
Master of None
Orange is the New Black
Stranger Things
Terrace House: Boys & Girls in the City
The Crown
The Fall (haven't seen the apparently bad S3)
Trailer Park Boys Out of the Park: Europe
Good:
Arrested Development S4
Captive
Chelsea
Chelsea Does
Cooked
Derek
Frontier
Haters Back Off
Hinterland
House of Cards (but on a definite trajectory down)
Jessica Jones
Lady Dynamite
Last Chance U
Lilyhammer
Love
Marcella
Southcliffe
Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt
W/ Bob and David
Forgettable:
Daredevil
Degrassi: Next Class
Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency
Easy
Flaked
Grace and Frankie
Marco Polo
Paranoid
Sense8
Wet Hot American Summer
White Rabbit Project
Bad:
Between
Fuller House
Hemlock Grove
Pacific Heat
The Characters
The Ranch
Haven't watched:
3%
Atelier
Club de Cuervos
Crazyhead
Fearless
Gilmore Girls 2 Electric Boogaloo
Hibana
Luke Cage
Marsellles
Midnight Diner: Tokyo Stories
Narcos
Pompidou
Rebellion
Roman Empire: Reign of Blood
Terrace House: Aloha State
The Get Down
The OA
There will be no appeals, all ratings are final and canonical.
Great:
Bloodline (oh yes)
Bojack Horseman
Chef's Table
Chef's Table: France
F is for Family
Happy Valley
Making a Murderer
Master of None
Orange is the New Black
Stranger Things
Terrace House: Boys & Girls in the City
The Crown
The Fall (haven't seen the apparently bad S3)
Trailer Park Boys Out of the Park: Europe
Good:
Arrested Development S4
Captive
Chelsea
Chelsea Does
Cooked
Derek
Frontier
Haters Back Off
Hinterland
House of Cards (but on a definite trajectory down)
Jessica Jones
Lady Dynamite
Last Chance U
Lilyhammer
Love
Marcella
Southcliffe
Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt
W/ Bob and David
Forgettable:
Daredevil
Degrassi: Next Class
Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency
Easy
Flaked
Grace and Frankie
Marco Polo
Paranoid
Sense8
Wet Hot American Summer
White Rabbit Project
Bad:
Between
Fuller House
Hemlock Grove
Pacific Heat
The Characters
The Ranch
Haven't watched:
3%
Atelier
Club de Cuervos
Crazyhead
Fearless
Gilmore Girls 2 Electric Boogaloo
Hibana
Luke Cage
Marsellles
Midnight Diner: Tokyo Stories
Narcos
Pompidou
Rebellion
Roman Empire: Reign of Blood
Terrace House: Aloha State
The Get Down
The OA
There will be no appeals, all ratings are final and canonical.
MHWilliams
Member
Jessica Jones hit good on Stump list!
It's a Christmas miracle.
Netflix keeps trying to hit me with that, but it looks like a poor man's Archer.
It's a Christmas miracle.
Netflix keeps trying to hit me with that, but it looks like a poor man's Archer.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
You are underestimating how bad Hemlock Grove and Between are if you think it'd be alone on that tier.
Imagine Archer, only with somehow worse animation, no jokes, characters you hate, and Australian racism.
metalslimer
Member
Bojack Horseman I legitimately think is one of the best shows on any platform. That and Stranger things already puts them in the top tier of entertainment for the year for me.
bobnowhere
Member
It's conveniently not on Netflix in Australia either. I think it's on some crap pay TV channel here.
Shame it sounds so bad, the people involved are usually much better than this.
Gilmore Girls and Arrested Development are legit
But can't honestly say that Netflix has a truly great show that I've seen. Nothing up there with the best of the best. Broadcast television is so much better at trimming the fat and making everything count. Even when Netflix is good it still drains me to watch.
But can't honestly say that Netflix has a truly great show that I've seen. Nothing up there with the best of the best. Broadcast television is so much better at trimming the fat and making everything count. Even when Netflix is good it still drains me to watch.
This is a good opinion and we should be friends.
TheAbsolution
Member
I also agree here.
Just because something can have 13 episodes with 60 minutes of content each, doesn't mean it should.
Also, Stump, when you say OITNB, are we talking all seasons, because I've felt like the show has been on a downward trajectory since like season 3 tbh.
Grizzlyjin
Supersonic, idiotic, disconnecting, not respecting, who would really ever wanna go and top that
This is kinda where I settle on them. Netflix has good shows but something always stops them from being great. I was actually watching The Crown a few days ago, loved the first few episodes...But everytime there was a really good scene it would just keep going, and going, and going. This happens in almost every Netflix show I've watched. They don't just leave the fat on, you get the muscle and bone too. I've lost count at how many times a character has said a line that would be perfect to cut the scene on and then the conversation just keeps going for a few more minutes.
I tried watching The OA this weekend, same problem. First episode did nothing for me and then I looked at the runtime for the rest and said "Fuck this." I want to see the first Netflix show that is up there with the HBO or AMC greats. Even something of Deadwood or Rome caliber.
Joel Was Right
Member
I still haven't got over Rubicon's cancellation. A travesty.
Have you watched The Crown?
How did you read the end of that post while skipping the part at the start that says:
Even if Pacific Heat sucks, everyone should watch Utopia (think it's on the US Netflix as Dreamland) if you have any interest in work place comedies.
It also captures the frustration of public service better than anything ever.
By skipping over that part, I suppose. My bad.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
It's a little hard to argue that broadcast television, where 22 episode seasons and 7+ season runtimes are common, is better at trimming the fat than Netflix, where 3x13 or less are common, just because the latter has 50 minute episode lengths instead of 42.
It's actually really nice how Netflix (and some cable) show lengths can vary and don't have to be a rigid 42 or 22 minutes, they don't have to add filler or cut some of the episode for time to tell the story they're trying to tell.
In the sense of pure watchability, I think no, broadcast is still far ahead of Netflix. Some may have longer episode counts, but have judicious editing and stronger plot pacing. They know how to tell a story that meets the episode count (or are better equipped at using procedural elements). The run time makes a huge difference for comedies, where poor editing kills comedic momentum.
I mean look at [insert prestige broadcast drama] with a 13-episode count. Most of these aren't exactly fast paced shows, but there's so much less fat and so much story told within those episodes than [insert 13 episode Netflix drama]. If a Netflix show is 13x50min, it should have the content to match, but routinely they don't, and almost all of them would be better with stronger editing and a lower episode count. Every Marvel show has been an 8 episode story stretched over 13 episodes, instead of a story worth telling over 13 episodes!
Yeah but time and time again they keep too much. Scenes run too long. I'm not sure if they're encouraged to make them as long as possible, but IIRC Netflix just wants customers engaging in content so they don't care if it's long. It's a pretty common adage that directors shouldn't edit their own movies because they can't objectively cut their own babies, and it shows with the producers here. Varied lengths are only good if you're responsible enough to use them properly and that's a rare skill. Very few times do episodes come under the average run time. I don't think I've ever seen one on Netflix.
tldr; Netflix shows are like Apatow movies, either edit your shit or have more of a story to tell
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
Broadcast shows have bottle episodes, plots structured for sweeps timing, awkward mid-season cliffhangers, etc. I could see if you are arguing that premium cable shows are more judicious than Netflix but I just don't see a scenario where Castle or whatever is held up as an example of tight, dense storytelling.
Every Marvel show on ABC has been a 0 episode story stretched over 22 episodes, instead of a story worth telling at all. I'm not just saying this with my normal level of contempt for comic garbage, this goes beyond that: Agents of SHIELD for example is an abusively bad show with total contempt for the viewer's time.
When I say broadcast, I include both cable and network. And I do think both are more watchable than Netflix. I'm no fan of Castle, having seen maybe three episodes ever, but the intention of the show is to be procedural. If Netflix made Castle with 22 episodes, I'd almost certainly expect it to have a far longer runtime, longer scenes and generally meander far more than necessary. A procedural can tell a murder story throughout a single contained episode. Broadcast television knows how to better craft shows in whatever format they're given, be it 22ep procedurals or 13ep serialized. Basically broadcast know how to work within the guidelines they're given better, as there's just a whole lot more experience. And yeah take whatever 13 episode premium cable drama you want and it put up against Netflix and just look at the difference in story pacing and editing, it's night and day.
Nobody hates Agents of SHIELD more than me. But I can say, while Daredevil is a better show overall, AoS is better constructed to fit the runtime and episode count and doesn't (can't) let scenes run long. Feels weird to say, but I think AoS is a more watchable show on a episodic level due to how it's constructed, even if it's far, far worse.
It is however important to note that outside Scandal hardly any of these broadcast shows try to tell one story without room for filler. They know their format. Netflix shows try to tell that exact same format, but without an editor to call them out on the dead weight these episodes have. Showrunners have simply not mastered the Netflix format.
You'll be hard pressed to find an episode in Castle S1-S5 or so that is just boring or goes on too long. They write a 50 minute episode or so, and then cut it down to fit the format which eliminate the stuff that doesn't work. You might not like what the show wants to do, but it does so very strong.
AngmarsKing701
Member
Stump, I feel like you could break these up based on their seasons.
Bloodline S1 was great.
Bloodline S2 was good.
HoC of course goes from great to bad.
etc
Bloodline S1 was great.
Bloodline S2 was good.
HoC of course goes from great to bad.
etc
sparky2112
Member
The Fundamentals of Caring (with Paul Rudd)
WaffleTaco
Wants to outlaw technological innovation.
Oh I forgot about that movie. It 'twas good. That Ellen Page movie wasn't bad either.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
It's true that this is occasionally visible (the timing on Arrested Development S4 is ruined by the extra runtime, most notably) but I do not think this is broadly true. For example, House of Cards is not an amazing show, but it's not bad because it goes on too long or it has filler, it's not bad because the writing is not credible, the overall plot arc has been poor since S1, and the performances are unearned and melodramatic. Master of None is tight. W/Bob and David is actually even tighter than Mr. Show, the previous incarnation of the show on HBO. Stranger Things has maybe 10-12 minutes of flab across the show. Bloodline is maybe the slowest TV series I've ever watched but it doesn't feel slow because of excess, it feels slow because it's deliberately slow. Fuller House and The Ranch are both bad but I don't feel they drag as compared to multicams on linear television.
Provided I yield your characterization, which I don't, I still don't believe trading what might be 7 minutes of poor editing per episode acquits linear television when they're doing 22 episode seasons. Even the best procedurals have obvious bottle episodes, obvious sweeps plotting, and would lose very little by having a hatchet taken to their episode orders. Netflix wouldn't order 22 episodes because the economics are totally different, so their shows typically don't have bottle episodes and they typically don't have totally extraneous episodes.
Cornballer
Member
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
You can easily skip scenes in shows with weak editing. My wife took about 8 minutes to watch an episode of Glee by around the 3rd season.
Didn't expect so much outright hatred oif Agents of Shield. I think they do far better than average when it comes to resolving plot lines in a timely matter. They've had cliffhangers that would last an entire season on other shows get resolved within a few episodes instead.
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