Any series that has plot that makes less sense than Naruto's beginning? Late Spoilers

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Trojita

Trojita

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There is going to be spoilers for revelations much much later close to the end of Naruto's story.

Naruto's father is revealed to be
The 4th Hokage. The much beloved leader of his village. The 4th Hokage and his wife sacrificed their lives to save the village and left Naruto with the unfortunate burden of bearing a literal force of nature.

The 3rd Hokage, taking back control of the village after the unfortunate death of The 4th, treats Naruto like shit.
He's the teacher of the teacher of the 4th Hokage
. Without the retrospective we are led to believe that The 3rd was a very honorable guy that just had trouble with some dumb orphan.

Jiraiya,
the teacher of Naruto's father and is Naruto's godfather
, decides to continue traveling as a hermit never returning to the village to look over him and just happens to run into Naruto when a certain teacher neglects him.....

Kakashi,
who's mentor and teacher was Naruto's father
, treats him indifferently. Kakashi ends up privately teaching the unstable kid a lightning hand kill move while being fine with Naruto learning with presumed scraps.

At most I can understand superstitious villagers, who even if they loved
The 4th Hokage
, having some of them be scared of the cursed kid with the nuclear bomb in his belly. Still don't understand why they would never talk about
The 4th and his wife or mention him being the 4th's kid
, but that is just plot obfuscation.

The worst part is that it was pretty obvious
The 4th
was supposed to be his father. It was the rumor since the series started.

Now I dropped Bleach, which I'm sure is going to be the other contender for this. So hit me up with some dumb plot senpais
 
The reason why he was never revealed to be who he was to the rest of the village never really made sense to me.
 
Sorry but as far as shounen go, isn't Bleach like far and away the biggest asspull origin post ending? I recall the protag being retroactively mixed as some hybid breed of like 4 different races or something stupid.
 
This funniest part is that this isn't even the most asinine convoluted plot point in the series. The entire ending arc is basically one of these after another to the point it seems like one big joke by the author.
 
Your critiques mostly center around the thought that people are supposed to care about Naruto. Which isnt very realistic seein as how orphans are often treated.

I dont know what you really mean by the 3rd treating him like shit.

Jiraya was more concerned with tailing Orochimaru one of his closest friends. I don't see whats nonsensical about that.

Kakashi choosing to work with Sasuke makes so much sense that Im not even gonna comment on it.
 
Oh my sweet summer child, let me take you to the deepest bowels of Bleach. A series where I'm not even sure if there are normal characters, maybe 2 or 3. Everybody is something special, and Ichigo is everything. Every race, every subclass, every special thing is added to Ichigo. They couldn't even leave his mother's death alone.
 
Yeah I mean it wasn't even speculation from beginning who his parentage was, you see the 4th and go "yeah that's his dad" they look exactly alike even with just having ninja Mount Rushmore as reference.

It makes no sense why everyone trays him like complete shit and why nobody took the kid in (cough hiruzen).
 
Frozenprince said:
Yeah I mean it wasn't even speculation from beginning who his parentage was, you see the 4th and go "yeah that's his dad" they look exactly alike even with just having ninja Mount Rushmore as reference.

It makes no sense why everyone trays him like complete shit and why nobody took the kid in (cough hiruzen).
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For the same reason there's a story trope where fathers often treat their kids like crap when the mom dies in childbirth.
 
How did the third hokage treat Naruto like shit?

Jiraiya was supposed to be watching the Akatsuki and Orochimaru. And seeing as Orochimaru is in the leaf village at the time, it makes sense that Jiraiya would also be there.

Sasuke is Kakashi's type. He makes a much better teacher for him. That's why he got a different trainer for Naruto.

Largely plot obfuscation, and they were forbidden to talk to Naruto. And scared to talk to him anyway. And I believe the third hokage didn't want people to know who his dad was to protect Naruto.
 
He really made shit as he went on. I'm pretty sure it wasn't planned that he was the son of the 4th.

And didn't the third actually give naruto a home and everything?
 
Maybe all of those people wanted to interact with Naruto and be a part of his life, but then they spent five minutes with him and decided better of it? Pre-Shippuden Naruto was basically completely insufferable.

(You're right, though, it's a pretty clear and common case of making stuff up as you go along because you never planned to be so wildly successful and Shonen Jump isn't exactly going to give you more than ten seconds a week to plot a course for the future.)
 
the-pi-guy said:
Largely plot obfuscation, and they were forbidden to talk to Naruto. And scared to talk to him anyway. And I believe the third hokage didn't want people to know who his dad was to protect Naruto.
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Oh so apparently being the fricken Bijuu jinchuuriki doesn't mean jackshit compared to being the Hokage's some. GG. plus werent Uzumake clan members hunted down or something? How much danger would being known as the 4th Hokage's son honestly have added.
 
The reason I said The 3rd treated Naruto like shit was because of most of their interactions, which of course were posited for humor, showed a complete lack of care.

It was pretty clear that Naruto lived on his own. Who the fuck lets a kid live by himself?

Also who the fuck did orphan Sasuke live with?
 
Although slightly unrelated, I love how Naruto's friends besides Sasuke and Sakura apparently just sort of knew about him hosting the nine-tailed fox. Not even Hinata, despite her being planned to end up with Naruto around the middle of the story, according to Kishimoto, got any scene reacting to it.

rambis said:
Your critiques mostly center around the thought that people are supposed to care about Naruto. Which isnt very realistic seein as how orphans are often treated.

I dont know what you really mean by the 3rd treating him like shit.

Jiraya was more concerned with tailing Orochimaru one of his closest friends. I don't see whats nonsensical about that.

Kakashi choosing to work with Sasuke makes so much sense that Im not even gonna comment on it.
Click to expand...

The problem is Naruto wasn't any odd orphan. He was the son of the fourth Hokage, the last Uzumaki, a clan with high status within the village, and the host of the nine-tailed fox, meaning he was of military importance as well. The problem isn't that how Naruto was treated wasn't realistic, but that it wasn't logical in terms of continuity.
 
Trojita said:
The reason I said The 3rd treated Naruto like shit was because of most of their interactions, which of course were posited for humor, showed a complete lack of care.

It was pretty clear that Naruto lived on his own. Who the fuck lets a kid live by himself?

Also who the fuck did orphan Sasuke live with?
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In a story where numerous villages force kids to do much worse things than living alone Naruto being an outcast doesn't really stick out.

I mean at its base level the story begins about kids being trained to be killers often by torturous means. Wondering who is tucking Naruto in at night would be the least of my concerns if I came across that village.
 
Trojita said:
The reason I said The 3rd treated Naruto like shit was because of most of their interactions, which of course were posited for humor, showed a complete lack of care.

It was pretty clear that Naruto lived on his own. Who the fuck lets a kid live by himself?

Also who the fuck did orphan Sasuke live with?
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Lack of care? Youre reaching dude. Most of their interactions involved Naruto pulling a prank and being lectured.

And why not live alone? Kids in this world go off to war, im not sure whats supposed to be so shocking about them having their own apartment.
 
studyguy said:
Sorry but as far as shounen go, isn't Bleach like far and away the biggest asspull origin post ending? I recall the protag being retroactively mixed as some hybid breed of like 4 different races or something stupid.
Click to expand...

Yes, Ichigo has either been or has biological ties to every faction/class in the series. It's quite ridiculous.
 
There's absolutely a missing story in who exactly raised Naruto. I still can't believe that they've never gone back and done anything with it.

Iruka if he was a bit older would have been fun.
 
olag said:
Oh so apparently being the fricken Bijuu jinchuuriki doesn't mean jackshit compared to being the Hokage's some. GG. plus werent Uzumake clan members hunted down or something? How much danger would being known as the 4th Hokage's son honestly have added.
Click to expand...

They were forbidden to talk about him being a jinchuuriki. The kids didn't know at all, and they weren't allowed to know. They were just told to avoid him. It's clearly something they wanted a secret, but it didn't stay that way. Less people likely knew that Naruto was the fourth's child. Both his parents died, and if I remember right Naruto's birth was a secret. So most people likely didn't know that the fourth even had a son.

The reason why the jinchuuriki bit gets around a lot more is because it's harder to explain what happened to the beast and also because it's way more threatening. People tried killing Gaara for example even when he was just a little child.

Uzumaki members I think we're hunted down well before Naruto.


Trojita said:
The reason I said The 3rd treated Naruto like shit was because of most of their interactions, which of course were posited for humor, showed a complete lack of care.

It was pretty clear that Naruto lived on his own. Who the fuck lets a kid live by himself?

Also who the fuck did orphan Sasuke live with?
Click to expand...
Naruto was a bratty child, honestly the third hokage was ridiculously forgiving towards him. Even from the first episode. I never got the impression that he was harsh on him. In fact even from the first 20 episodes, I'd say he was pretty caring.

Well he lives in a ninja village, so it's not hard to imagine that culture is a bit different.
 
SoRuffShoNuff said:
In a story where numerous villages force kids to do much worse things than living alone Naruto being an outcast doesn't really stick out.

I mean at its base level the story begins about kids being trained to be killers often by torturous means. Wondering who is tucking Naruto in at night would be the least of my concerns if I came across that village.
Click to expand...

Konoha seemed like a civilized place with our level of technology. Just because something happens in Somolia doesn't mean it should happen here.

rambis said:
Lack of care? Youre reaching dude. Most of their interactions involved Naruto pulling a prank and being lectured.

And why not live alone? Kids in this world go off to war, im not sure whats supposed to be so shocking about them having their own apartment.
Click to expand...


the-pi-guy said:
Naruto was a bratty child, honestly the third hokage was ridiculously forgiving towards him. Even from the first episode. I never got the impression that he was harsh on him. In fact even from the first 20 episodes, I'd say he was pretty caring.
Click to expand...


Why do kids act out? Maybe it has to do with not even having a parent or someone taking care of him.
 
UnemployedVillain said:
The 3rd Hokage never treated Naruto like shit though
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Lol that's what I was thinking too. He's strict with him but mostly because Naruto is kind of an ass who likes to play pranks on people (the very first story beat is him stealing an ancient ninja scroll, after all). In fact most of the people connected to the 4th are pretty nice to Naruto, it's just that they either had other things to do and couldn't be a big part of his life or had specific ways of showing it that Naruto couldn't fully appreciate until he was older.

You think he just randomly ended up under Kakashi's wing? You think he just happened to be the only person who got through to Jiraya after he'd tried to turn him away? Nah, everyone was looking out for the guy. But they were smart enough not to just shower him with favor and pity just because of his circumstances, harsh as though they may be.He had to work for it, and it made him a better person in the long run.

Also, a lot of the early parts of the manga are about Naruto meeting the other kids and realizing that, comparatively, he actually hasn't had that bad of a life. Or at least he's not the only person suffering like he thought he was. Sasuke had it just as bad (arguably worse, given how personal it all was), Hinata's family situation was garbage AND persistent, Rock Lee apparently has no family AND no talent for ninja stuff meaning he has to work his ass off harder than anyone else just to break even..It shows how self-centered and hung up on your own issues you can be as a kid.
 
Sesha said:
Although slightly unrelated, I love how Naruto's friends besides Sasuke and Sakura apparently just sort of knew about him hosting the nine-tailed fox. Not even Hinata, despite her being planned to end up with Naruto around the middle of the story, according to Kishimoto, got any scene reacting to it.



The problem is Naruto wasn't any odd orphan. He was the son of the fourth Hokage, the last Uzumaki, a clan with high status within the village, and the host of the nine-tailed fox, meaning he was of military importance as well. The problem isn't that how Naruto was treated wasn't realistic, but that it wasn't logical in terms of continuity.
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Uzumaki high status? Maybe in the days of the village formation but we never heard shit about them in the modern era. And the fact that he had the nine tails is exactly the reason why nobody would want to be around him

I dunno, it makes perfect sense to me. Do you all not live in a world where people dont follow through on certain responsibilities?
 
Man God said:
There's absolutely a missing story in who exactly raised Naruto. I still can't believe that they've never gone back and done anything with it.

Iruka if he was a bit older would have been fun.
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He was raised by a pack of raccoons that live off discarded ramen.
 
He had to work for it? He was a child lol. No child should work to get people to stop treating him like garbage. It took him saving the village from pain to finally get people to stop treating him like shit.
 
I've always figured that the Third/J-man did look out for him, especially the third. That part has never bugged me. What does bug me is who the hell actually did the raising of infant Naruto and what happened to them? Sure, you can kinda sorta get away with an orphen ten year old living by himself but what about a five year old? A three year old? A one year old?
 
Trojita said:
Why do kids act out? Maybe it has to do with not even having a parent or someone taking care of him.
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Well, he wants attention. They say so in like the first episode (really early on anyway).
The third hokage isn't his parent. And he's very busy, even to the point of mostly ignoring his own grandchild, but in contexts when they are together he is clearly not shitty towards either one.

No one else wants to be with him, because they are frightened.
 
UnemployedVillain said:
The 3rd Hokage never treated Naruto like shit though
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Yeah. Nobody treated him like shot except the villagers. Iruka, kakashi and Hiruzen all treated him well, putting up with his pranks and nonsense

Hiruzen is busy being homage. He can't raise Naruto. Iruka tries but he also has a job. Kakashi isn't introduced until later and he is a good mentor. And jiraiya is off doing ninja recon stuff
 
None of the villagers knew the 4th sealed the kyuubi inside his own kid. it made sense to keep it a secret both to people who would be interested in stealing it and for narutos own protection.

Kakashi had reasons to train sasuke- for one he saw his own need for revenge in himself, and knowing his own story with Obito, having his sharingan, Kakashi felt he personally invested in training the last Uchiha.

Jirayah completely underestimated who and what was after Naruto and in hindsight should not have left him alone. But in hindsight, Jirayah should never have helped 3 war orphaned kids falling into Madaras trap.
 
The only credit I can give to Kishimoto is that he wrote so that Naruto knew that he was the 4th's child, deep down.
 
Man God said:
I've always figured that the Third/J-man did look out for him, especially the third. That part has never bugged me. What does bug me is who the hell actually did the raising of infant Naruto and what happened to them? Sure, you can kinda sorta get away with an orphen ten year old living by himself but what about a five year old? A three year old? A one year old?
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Given the way the Naruto world works there HAS to be some sort of social system in place for war orphans. Also I wouldn't be surprised if the Third Hokage and Iruka played a big part in it.
 
there is no excuse for Kakashi and Jiraiya ignoring his ass for so long, not one goddamn visit in 12 years?

If it wasn't for Iruka(someone with no personal connection with Naruto) they would've ended up with a Gaara and stood around wondering where they went wrong.
 
Ordinaryundone said:
Given the way the Naruto world works there HAS to be some sort of social system in place for war orphans. Also I wouldn't be surprised if the Third Hokage and Iruka played a big part in it.
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In pretty sure that Kabuto was raised in a ninja orphanage.

The Silver said:
there is no excuse for Kakashi and Jiraiya ignoring his ass for so long, not one goddamn visit in 12 years?

If it wasn't for Iruka(someone with no personal connection with Naruto) they would've ended up with a Gaara and stood around wondering where they went wrong.
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They were doing stuff. Kakashi was an anbu captain and later a famous jounin and joraiya traveled the world keeping tabs on people. They didn't have time to raise a kid.

Naruto likely lived in a group home until 12 or so when he got his own place and graduated to being a genin, and hiruzen likely kept tabs on him
 
The Silver said:
there is no excuse for Kakashi and Jiraiya ignoring his ass for so long, not one goddamn visit in 12 years?

If it wasn't for Iruka(someone with no personal connection with Naruto) they would've ended up with a Gaara and stood around wondering where they went wrong.
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Iruka in fact has a reason to HATE Naruto.

That being said the village did a much better job of scorning Naruto than the Sand did. Naruto has some pretty shitty flashbacks where people are mean to him but nothing like the shit Gaara goes through and Gaara actually remembers the person who raised him! (Then later tried to kill him and really turned him into a monster, but that's on him!)
 
As it's a very Japanese sort of world, I wouldn't be surprised if there's an excessive dormitory system for students, so presumably the ninja orphanage is just for until you're old enough to go to ninja grade school.
 
blakep267 said:
In pretty sure that Kabuto was raised in a ninja orphanage.


They were doing stuff. Kakashi was an anbu captain and later a famous jounin and joraiya traveled the world keeping tabs on people. They didn't have time to raise a kid.
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good lord they are not busy 24/7, they had 12 years, stop making excuses for that dumb shit. couldn't even write the kid a fucking letter
 
Imperfected said:
As it's a very Japanese sort of world, I wouldn't be surprised if there's an excessive dormitory system for students, so presumably the ninja orphanage is just for until you're old enough to go to ninja grade school.
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Yeah that's also a thing. If it gets adapted in the US, he definitely would be an orphanage kid.

The Silver said:
good lord they are not busy 24/7, they had 12 years, stop making excuses for that dumb shit
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They kinda are though. They get missions and leave the village. How long were team 5 away for the Zabuza arc? 2 weeks? Then they come home maybe have a few days off then back at it. Iruka has much more time because he's an instructor
 
Trojita said:
Konoha seemed like a civilized place with our level of technology. Just because something happens in Somolia doesn't mean it should happen here.
Click to expand...

The Konoha that sponsored the genocide of one of its founding clans? The Konoha that approved of Danzo? The Konoha whose 2nd hokage created one of the most horrific jutsus in the entire story?
 
blakep267 said:
In pretty sure that Kabuto was raised in a ninja orphanage.


They were doing stuff. Kakashi was an anbu captain and later a famous jounin and joraiya traveled the world keeping tabs on people. They didn't have time to raise a kid.

Naruto likely lived in a group home until 12 or so when he got his own place and graduated to being a genin, and hiruzen likely kept tabs on him
Click to expand...

They had shit to do, but everyone has shit to do and most can manage a few visits every 12 years.
 
blakep267 said:
Yeah that's also a thing. If it gets adapted in the US, he definitely would be an orphanage kid.


They kinda are though. They get missions and leave the village. How long were team 5 away for the Zabuza arc? 2 weeks? Then they come home maybe have a few days off then back at it. Iruka has much more time because he's an instructor
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no they kinda aren't, and would you look at that, some free time to go pop in on the kid.

12 years, not even a letter.

THEY HAVE MESSAGE HAWKS.

THEY CAN MAKE FUCKING CLONES.
 
studyguy said:
Sorry but as far as shounen go, isn't Bleach like far and away the biggest asspull origin post ending? I recall the protag being retroactively mixed as some hybid breed of like 4 different races or something stupid.
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Ichigo's origin isn't that complicated. The very moment it was revealed that his father was a Shinigami captain should have raised logical questions about how did he ended up marrying a "mere" human rather than a fellow Shinigami in SS.
 
I am still so confused as to why
Itachi had to kill the crippled and the elderly and the children.

... Is he the worst of all time at negotiating or something? Those targets had less military importance than Sasuke...
 
The Silver said:
there is no excuse for Kakashi and Jiraiya ignoring his ass for so long, not one goddamn visit in 12 years?

If it wasn't for Iruka(someone with no personal connection with Naruto) they would've ended up with a Gaara and stood around wondering where they went wrong.
Click to expand...
Who says they had to care about Naruto? Jiraiya was chasing Orochimaru which was one of his closest friends. Kakashi was a depressed murderous hardliner for a good bit aftet the 4th died. Im not sure why you think the world is supposed to revolve sround Naruto.
 
rambis said:
Who says they had to care about Naruto? Jiraiya was chasing Orochimaru which was one of his closest friends. Kakashi was a depressed murderous hardliner for a good bit aftet the 4th died. Im not sure why you think the world is supposed to revolve sround Naruto.
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because they both loved and were very close to the 4th and like any normal human being some part of those feelings would extend to the son he left behind after his tragic and sudden death? because Jiraiya was made his goddamn godfather? Because the 4th's dying wish was for his son to be regarded as a hero? Guess the 3rd probably told Jiraiya and Kakashi his actual wish was for them ignore Naruto for as long as possible.

That's not the "world revolving around Naruto" this is 2 people and normal human empathetic actions. You act like I want them to personally raise the kid like if he was their own, no, the problem is they don't even acknowledge his existence.
 
Villagers treating Naruto like shit is bullshit because his parents were heroes and the village KNEW. It would've been different if the people thought the 4th mistakingly was a traitor with some incident involving Kurama or something, but I guess that's too much to ask from Kishimoto, the man that gave us, wait for it: "I just found the most powerful ninja in the world, literally, Imma just going to raise him a little bit and when he starts to trust me I'll just abandon him in this fucking dump where it's raining constantly because reasons. And when him and his pals become mercenaries I'll ignore the matter completely, even when they go around murdering and stuff around the fucking ninja world while I write porn even though I'm strong as fuck. AND NEVER MENTIONING THE THING". Yeah.

Oh and don't forget the different kinds of chakras than we only find out after the timeskip and Azuma was all like "But Naruto, you weren't studying? Haha no worries I'll teach you this superimportant shit that everybody knows and the author has NOT just made up yesterday". SHONEN.

PS: I don't think the 3rd was harsh on him, he was sort of a grandpa figure to him I think. At least he treated him with some respect

PS2: Go read Bleach I dare you
 
The Silver said:
because they both loved and were very close to the 4th and like any normal human being some part of those feelings would extend to the son he left behind after his tragic and sudden death? because Jiraiya was made his goddamn godfather? Because the 4th's dying wish was for his son to be regarded as a hero? Guess the 3rd probably told Jiraiya and Kakashi his actual wish was for them ignore Naruto for as along as possible.

That's not the "world revolving around Naruto" this is 2 people and normal human empathetic actions. You act like I want them to personally raise the kid like if he was their own, no, the problem is they don't even acknowledge his existence.
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Kakashi was shown to become very dark and sulk for years isolaying himself from everyone after his team died.

Jiraya was following his lifelong friend around the world and watching dangerous groups.

Both of these reasons are apt enough to explain why they werent breaking their neck to be around Naruto. Orphans get ignored for far less noble reasons everyday in real life, im not sure why we are trying to view this as significant.
 
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