That's just not true? The Xbox is $250, the pro is $400
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PS4 Pro Won't Support 4k BluRay
- Thread starter blastprocessor
- Start date
longdi
Banned
Xbox 1 does not have UHD drive though..
SolidusDave
Member
I've read this now a few times. Can someone please help me understand how a digital movie file, read from a digital medium and send via a digital signal to the receiver/TV can have any alteration/"improved visual fidelity" based on the disc player?
The only thing that should change the visuals of that is the TV and its display settings.
Because I have a feeling this is something along the lines of putting your speaker cables on little podiums to get better sound...
family_guy
Member
Bistreaming support is coming. If you're going to say improved visual fidelity at least provide evidence that there's a significant difference. I'm not saying it isn't better since I had the Samsung, but it's one of those cases that it might be hard to tell unless they are side by side and even then it may not make much of a difference to some people if it means they get a system that can play games and has more media app support than a standalone UHD player.
paperspace
Member
Last edited:
What are you basing this on?
CrispyBoar
Banned
This in a nutshell. If consumers were to figure out that there's a cheaper UHD Blu-Ray player inside Xbox One S & not inside of the PS4 Pro (as well as wanting to play games on top), then consumers would mostly pick up the former console instead of the latter. The cheaper price tag of the Xbox One S is the icing on the cake (or cherry on top).
That's a big risk for Sony to not include it inside of the Pro, especially when they're one of the main companies pushing 4K in general.
Watched a bit of Fury Road in 4k over the holidays and to be completely honest, the difference was not as drastic as I expected. It was sort of disappointing. Maybe I was expecting a similar disparity from SD to Bluray, but it didn't blow me away like I thought it would. I went home and turned on 1080p Fury Road in my theater and while the difference was noticeable it wasn't mind blowing. After that experience I don't feel like I need to rush to adopt 4k just yet. I'll take the theater, cinematic experience any day of the week.
Maybe down the road I'll upgrade the living room display to 4k to test the waters, then invest in a 4k projector when they're more affordable.
Maybe down the road I'll upgrade the living room display to 4k to test the waters, then invest in a 4k projector when they're more affordable.
longdi
Banned
SolidusDave
Member
The difference is still not just $50.
XB1s (with UHD) MSRP is $300 (and $250 with bundles in the real world) and PS4pro is $400.
My One S cost £200 with a game. That's £150 less than my Pro which didn't come with a game. Where are you getting a $50 price difference from?
longdi
Banned
US msrp.
You can get a Pro with a game for msrp during BF sales, which i think thats how you got your 1s ya?
The FIFA 17 bundle is pretty much £230 as standard over here. It's fairly easy to find it cheaper though. Is the One S really $350 in the US?
chromatic9
Member
Not sure the enthusiast angle is worth bringing up.
I'd like the option to buy rent borrow a UHD film. Not enough for me to add a dedicated UHD player. I did the same with the PS3, bought a few blurays and rented some.
The novelty factor is much more this time with HDR in concert with higher resolution. When you go out and buy a new TV it will most likely have HDR and be 4k, nothing wrong with wanting to showcase that with a film.
The consumer might not use it much if at all but companies often sell things that aren't used a lot of not at all. It's a value piece, nice to have if I want to get a UHD bluray on a whim. I don't subscribe to amazon or whatever, couldn't give a fuck.
I'd like the option to buy rent borrow a UHD film. Not enough for me to add a dedicated UHD player. I did the same with the PS3, bought a few blurays and rented some.
The novelty factor is much more this time with HDR in concert with higher resolution. When you go out and buy a new TV it will most likely have HDR and be 4k, nothing wrong with wanting to showcase that with a film.
The consumer might not use it much if at all but companies often sell things that aren't used a lot of not at all. It's a value piece, nice to have if I want to get a UHD bluray on a whim. I don't subscribe to amazon or whatever, couldn't give a fuck.
so you are quite happy having millions of people pay extra for something that they neither want nor need but you and a very small minority of very vocal people want?
you have a need, you paid for that need, get over it
StudioTan
Hold on, friend! I'd love to share with you some swell news about the Windows 8 Metro UI! Wait, where are you going?
If you don't have a receiver capable of passing 4K HDR you're even more likely to want to get an XB1S as your UHD player since 4K TVs generally only have a single input that accepts 4K HDR signal so you couldn't have 3 different devices using the same port and you'd want a single console that can also act as your media player.
Already available on the XB1S if you're in the preview program, coming soon to everyone.
Based on what metrics?
Very small minority? Lol keep telling yourself that mate. Sony could've found a way to incorporate a UHD player in to the $400 price range.
If you're paying someone to calibrate your TV you're not watching your movies on your games console! You're buying a 4K Oppo or Panasonic. Nobody bought the PS2 just to play DVDs and nobody bought the PS3 just to play Blurays once the dedicated players caught up. These are value add features, they do not drive console sales.
That's a weird analogy btw.
http://www.whathifi.com/microsoft/xbox-one-s/review
Mango Positive
Member
I think UHD streaming looks pretty great. Good enough that I'm not buying UHD blu rays anymore. I do own a UHD player. For whatever the hell that's worth.
Ashtrax
Member
"Is coming" doesn't mean it's here. People complaining that the Pro doesn't have the UHD, while the Xbox doesn't have bitstream support. I want that in my UHD bluray player. Already defending something the console doesn't have. Jesus...
And in regards to the "side by side" comparison, exactly as I said earlier, if people want things that do more rather than better, than fine, get the Xbox, but don't go around complaining that the PS4 doesn't have something, when it already plays games better.
Grim_Reaper
Neo Member
You can buy both ps4 and xbox one for around £200 over here. xbox one s is about £250 for the 500gb model and ps4 pro is £350.
I myself paid more money for ps4 pro because I use it for gaming. I certainly don;t want to be paying another £50 quid on top of that for a UHD player I am never going to use. for which I am glad sony did not force on us.
You may not like it but I wouldn't be surprised that people really don't care that its not got a 4k player in it. Most people I know stream movies now on their phone and tv using netflix and amazon prime.
The likely hood when scoprio or ps5 comes out I won't be buying UHD discs for them either but if the storage space is required for the games then include it otherwise leave it out. I dont see why I should have take take the cost because of a small minority of people.
StudioTan
Hold on, friend! I'd love to share with you some swell news about the Windows 8 Metro UI! Wait, where are you going?
This reads like a completely subjective review which could be fixed with proper calibration. I'm talking about actual measurable differences.
Where are you getting this extra £50 from?
Grim_Reaper
Neo Member
If the xbox one is £200 and xbox one s is £250 its £50 difference. So if I wanted a uhd player in the ps4 pro the likely hood is that its about £50 cost.
family_guy
Member
You've still not provided any evidence that the Samsung has better video quality than the Xbox One S.
Lol that's one way to try and guess the cost of the UHD player.
chromatic9
Member
Most places are doing £199 PS4 slim and £250 for Xbox One S
You can buy a XBO S at Microsoft or Argos for £220 but it's a fair point. Just had a quick look at US and it seems $250 for both is still going in the main.
Also worth pointing out that PS4 used to win here when older PS4 was usually around £250 and Xbox was doing all sorts of promotions throughout 2016 from £180-230. The S was couple of wins were because it was new and had great deals. Soon as those stopped PS4 killed Xbox In Nov UK. I can't imagine Xbox can carry on selling the console at £250 while the PS4 is £199 everywhere now no matter how nice UHD might be.
Just to note I don't think this is the cost of UHD. Could be under £20 and the cost of the ESRAM chip, who knows. I'm just saying what the units are going for and MS have relaxed the promotions. IF Sony are comfortable at £199 all day everyday and MS need to eat the cost of £15-20, well that's what MS can do but Sony won't want to do that as I said a few pages back.
Can't argue with any of that. The One S was selling well due to aggressive pricing and the Pro being on the horizon. The PS4 will always be the default winner here and rightly so imo. It's the better console.
I remember seeing that it added like $12 to the overall production cost to have a UHD player included. I may be misremembering though. I'm fairly certain it shouldn't cost an extra £50 lol.
Grim_Reaper
Neo Member
If you are saying that its only $12 for a uhd drive then why is it price £50 more than the xbox one.
digitalrelic
Banned
Both the Samsung and the Xbox One S actually crush blacks a bit compared to high end players. They also have a weird red push with their colors. They also lack detail. 4k UHD playback on the Xbox One S also exhibits judder compared to high end players.
None of these issues are huge, and frankly the majority of film-watchers wouldn't notice or care, but regardless of that, the issues are there.
Here's some sample photos:
$200 Samsung:
$550 Oppo:
I quoted the pictures because they're so huge, but open them in new tabs to compare.
The black crush is obvious, and there's noticeably more detail and better color reproduction on the Oppo vs the Samsung. And even the Samsung is supposed to have better PQ than the Xbox One S. So yes, there's definitely differences.
chromatic9
Member
Yeah, I've read about $14 which is ~£12, call it £20. It's odd how most places are back at £250 though but if the PS4 without UHD plus other cost cutting measures can stay £199 all day and MS have to flip between £220-50 then Sony will keep winning here. We're already used to seeing Xbox One at £180-200 so. We're back to weaker hardware costing more like 2013. UHD player is good if they price match Sony or undercut.
Huh? The Xbox One isn't even made any more, it is just retailers trying to clear old stock no one wants since the S is available. The ultra hd drive costs about $10-12, and it wouldn't have been a $10+ loss to Sony since the included regular bluray drive in the Pro also has a cost (I assume around $4-8 range).
LightningXCE
Member
Xbox One does support bitstream. :|
j0hnnix
Member
I wouldnt have minded the 4k BR missing if they had all 4k streaming apps available. Amazon 4k is still missing. atleast i cant find the UHD section. Sadly disc quality will always be superior and with data caps becoming the norm. i would of paid the 50 extra for the pro to have it.
I think the 4k player would cost Sony an extra 15 bucks per console to put in there.
j0hnnix
Member
Youre probably right. Either way Sony would of probably made even bigger sales if it included the drive.
Why do you believe that a 50/66/100GB disc can't be matched by a video file about the same size on a home media server or on a USB harddrive? that's strange to me that people think that UHD Blu-ray is the only way to get quality. standards are not fully in place for 4K/HDR but you can bet that over the next few years you will see the quality go up & files getting smaller & other ways to watch them.
The thing is that they probably calculated that those extra sales would not make up for the $10-20 extra loss (or higher price) on every single console sold. Whether this was a good financial decision or not, is still to be seen.
I will probably never buy a 4k blu-ray disc, as is I've only ever bought 3 regular blu-rays and I owned the PS3 for many years.
So I'm glad I saved whatever the extra cost for the UHD player was.
digitalrelic
Banned
And where exactly are we finding these 100Gb files to put onto a hard drive? No way in hell you're streaming that 100GB. UHD Blu-ray is literally the only viable option right now.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Sorry for being so direct, but on which planet do you live where downloading several games and multi GB patches and streaming several hundreds of GB of video and music data a month is that easy and practical for even a decent portion of consumers? Low bandwidth and especially bandwidth caps would kill you and then more people start to live purely digitally the easier the case for bullshit caps will be
.how about the Phillips player? does it have the same black crush issues?
My cousin has the Samsung, and he/we have been fine with it....more so disappointed with inconsistencies in some 4K BluRay titles... like Jason Bourne, some dark scenes are not that dark on his OLED (C6).. and I think there's film grain(?)
but then the Vegas Car scene HOLY SHIT BEST LOOKING SEQUENCE I THINK I'VE EVER SEEN. It looked so real.
Pathfinder
Member
Streaming is a pretty decent way to watch movies 4K, unless you live in an area where you're bandwidth limited, or until your Internet connection goes down or has problems.
Consumer Internet is just not stable or prevalent enough to fully substitute having a physical disc.
We're just not there yet.
Consumer Internet is just not stable or prevalent enough to fully substitute having a physical disc.
We're just not there yet.
Every UHD Blu-ray isn't 100GB & there is audio files & so on that isn't needed for these files.
We should know from history that we will be able to get these files just give it time.
Sorry for being so direct, but on which planet do you live where downloading several games and multi GB patches and streaming several hundreds of GB of video and music data a month is that easy and practical for even a decent portion of consumers? Low bandwidth and especially bandwidth caps would kill you and then more people start to live purely digitally the easier the case for bullshit caps will be
This planet
that is the main reason I had to give up on the Xbox 1 S. Hopefully Scorpio takes that into consideration.
for now it's going to be either the Samsung or Phillips for myself.
Pathfinder
Member
You're aware that Comcast is rolling out 1TB per household per month bandwidth caps across the country, and charging a big chunk of money for households that go over that cap, yes?
digitalrelic
Banned
So are you talking about piracy then? Because that's not a viable option for me.
Ashtrax
Member
And if you read earlier I was referring to the lack of Dolby Atmos and DTS:X support. It's there now, but it wasn't at launch.
In a nutshell, Different rendering process in translating visual data. It's much the same way as how upscaling works on TVs.
Then whatever anyone says in regards to better standalone features is pointless because everyone else has already made their minds up on the Xbox. It now becomes a matter of quantity vs quality.
And to add, that's not even going into the negatives of the Xbox, such as the console being louder, slow and cumbersome interface, needing to buy a remote on the side, etc.
Herp Derpington
Member
The point is if you have a 1080p receiver and have at least 2 hdmi inputs on your tv the Samsung player is a legit choice. I know because this is my use case. I have a receiver that does 4k but with no hdr and at 30hz so for me it's not worth dealing with. I have an Xbox One S but just use it in 1080p mode through the receiver. I bought the Sammy on sale at BB for 200 bucks and use the dual output. It's a very real scenario for quite a few enthusiasts not willing to purchase a new receiver atm.
Downloading is not the only way to get a video file but also how long will that cap be 1TB & how long will 50 - 100GB be a lot? I remember when 1GB was a lot & now it's nothing.
How do you come to that conclusion? the 4K media players are built to combat 4K piracy so why would I be talking about piracy? I'm talking about legit 4K files either from places like Vudu , Ultra & others or using something like digital bridge to transfer the movie from the Blu-ray to a local media server.
