Support NeoGAF

[Inuhanyou]

^ Here here.

There's a point where the same group of people going into every thread about industry people being positive on the Switch and making the same tired comments stops just being cynicism and starts becoming annoying when, yes, there are signs that things are different.

I fully agree that we can address the fact that we don't know how different things are or how this is going to change things, but there's no point in treating this like it's business as usual.

The same people making the same negative or mixed comments are because they didn't change their position.

Just like the same positive people making defensive or positive comments because they want to believe.

People will believe what they want to until facts or fully established information come to light. That should not bother anybody

 

[wapplew]

More Japanese studio use modern game engine the merrier.

 

[Nairume]

People will believe what they want to until facts or fully established information come to light. That should not bother anybody

But that's the thing. We have information coming to light. This is literally a thread about a representative for Epic, a company that has previously mentioned having issues working with Nintendo/Nintendo platforms, talking about things being different and being positive about things.

But still "Nope, it's business as usual. Stop being hopeful, plebs"

 

[MacTag]

Why is this shocking? One of UE4 largest features is its flexibility and hardware support. Considering Switch is ARM/Nvidia SOC, it is pretty much a fancy cell phone, which UE4 already supports.

Switch is getting full UE4 though, not mobile builds.

 

[Inuhanyou]

But that's the thing. We have information coming to light. This is literally a thread about a representative for Epic, a company that has previously mentioned having issues working with Nintendo/Nintendo platforms, talking about things being different.

But still "Nope, it's business as usual. Stop being hopeful, plebs"

Because we have had many devs and sources before express support about Nintendo platforms and then not bother.

Or even worse, they have token support and then completely fall off.

And of course Epic's idea of support is completely unknown to us until it actually shows in games being officially announced, so there's really no way to make any conclusions beyond their vague assertions.

We will know later this month, i think that is when we can really start talking about what we can expect.

 

[Oersted]

The same people making the same negative or mixed comments are because they didn't change their position.

Yes, you didn't. Industry people did.

Now I have the choice between listening to you about Unreal Engine 4 support for Nintendo Switch and people from Epic. Tough choice, but given the topic at hand I choose the latter.

Or do you have any insider knowledge we should know of?

 

[UnemployedVillain]

Why is this shocking? One of UE4 largest features is its flexibility and hardware support. Considering Switch is ARM/Nvidia SOC, it is pretty much a fancy cell phone, which UE4 already supports.

LOL, so why is it getting the full version of UE4 and not the mobile version?

 

[Nairume]

Because we have had many devs and sources before express support about Nintendo platforms and then not bother.

Again, the thing there is that it was always the same few devs and sources saying that before. Devs like EA, Ubisoft, and Activision that are always bullish at a console launch and then get timid at the first sign of trouble.

This is a thread about a dev that hasn't been like that. Likewise, we also have Bethesda, another company that has traditionally been down on Nintendo, supporting it to the point that they worked with Nintendo to literally be a part of the system's reveal.

Yes, things could just end up being business as usual, but there's at least some stuff coming to light that suggest that something different is going on behind the scenes.

 

[Inuhanyou]

Yes, you didn't. Industry people did.

Now I have the choice between listening to you about Unreal Engine 4 support for Nintendo Switch and people from Epic. Tough choice, but given the topic at hand I choose the latter.

Or do you have any insider knowledge we should know of?

Why this conversation about what you feel? I wasn't talking to you.

Whether or not anybody expresses skepticism until info comes out officially is not about me, or generally about what you feel about the situation.

If you want to feel confident based on Epic saying that they are getting 'lots' of UE4 titles with no real examples to give, that is totally within your right.

Just like it is within anyone else's right to feel skeptical. If you don't like that, that's just unfortunate.

 

[Inuhanyou]

Again, the thing there is that it was always the same few devs and sources saying that before. Devs like EA, Ubisoft, and Activision that are always bullish at a console launch and then get timid at the first sign of trouble.

This is a thread about a dev that hasn't been like that. Likewise, we also have Bethesda, another company that has traditionally been down on Nintendo, supporting it to the point that they worked with Nintendo to literally be a part of the system's reveal.

Yes, things could just end up being business as usual, but there's at least some stuff coming to light that suggest that something different is going on behind the scenes.

And where is anyone disagreeing with that possibility? It seems like the thread spiraled out of control and lost the plot when someone, for whatever reason, got irritated when i said that even though its great that UE4 is getting support from unnamed developers on their projects, ports would probably still be based around their technical and business priorities and whether or not it was feasible and worth it.

Nothing should be overtly scandalous about such an assertion.

 

[Abilidebob]

Man, I really need to get off my ass and learn how to UE4. I can't depend on Unity forever.

 

[Oersted]

Whether or not anybody expresses skepticism until info comes out officially

Information is officially out.

Unreal Engine 4 does officially run on Nintendo Switch.

Epic is officially committing support.

 

[Inuhanyou]

Information is officially out.

Unreal Engine 4 does officially run on Nintendo Switch.

Epic is officially committing support.

I am referring to individual UE4 games announcements. This thread is not about engine support of UE4 on Switch

 

[Oersted]

I am referring to individual UE4 games announcements. This thread is not about engine support of UE4 on Switch

Read the OP, its partly about that. The other part is about the amount, which a representive of Epic describes as alot.

I don't have any sources to doubt him, neither do I know how many games it will be.

 

[gconsole]

I think it is beyond the point of being competitive between different machine in japan. Japan console gaming industry as a whole need Switch to survive. While PS4 is showing success , it is from lower expectation compare to previous generation which already srhink more than 50%. Switch is the only another option that 3rd party can sell their game ( in japan ). I would be very surprise if any UE4 capable games wont try to make itself to Switch even shitty port. Even for FFVIIR, ( which I never expect it to come ) but after more than 50% sale shrink by FFXV, SqureEnix might have a second thought.

 

[Inuhanyou]

Read the OP, its partly about that. The other part is about the amount, which a representive of Epic describes as alot.

I don't have any sources to doubt him, neither do I know how many games it will be.

If your admitting that the information given is completely vague information then, others to express their opinion without being overbearing like you have been to me about it. That's all i have to say.

 

[element]

Switch is getting full UE4 though, not mobile builds.

LOL, so why is it getting the full version of UE4 and not the mobile version?

That is just marketing BS and uninformed reporting. What is important is Nintendo and Epic have worked together to provide a platform to build for. From a content creator you can have a "Switch" profile and from a build perspective you will have a "Build for Switch". And Switch will be a 'supported' platform, meaning if a developer can get help if they are using UE4 on Switch (much like Epic provides help for Xbox and PS4).

This 'mobile build' and 'full version' is nonsense. There is UE4. The platforms it supports out the box. The platforms it supports under license (PS4, Xbox One, Switch). There isn't some gimped build of UE4 that is only for mobile developers or a 'full build' more for console developers.

With Unreal Engine 4, you can learn one engine and one workflow to meet all of your needs now and in the future. From mobile projects to super high-end console and PC games, Unreal Engine is in use by indies and professionals around the world.

If I had the proper licenses, I could download UE4 and make a game using the same blueprints and assets across all platforms including mobile.

 

[Oersted]

If your admitting that the information given is completely vague information then, others to express their opinion without being overbearing like you have been to me about it. That's all i have to say.

I don't feel the need to admit that I read the OP, but if you ask for it. I just tried to focus on what was said in the OP and by other developers and insiders. A conversation based on what we know.
You came across as someone who wants to focus on his cynicism and not on what we know.

Nirolak posted a interesting list on UE4 based games from Japan. A conversation about which games from that list we would like to see on Switch and what would potentially fit creatively/commercially would be interesting.

 

[Blizzard]

That is just marketing BS and uninformed reporting. What is important is Nintendo and Epic have worked together to provide a platform to build for. From a content creator you can have a "Switch" profile and from a build perspective you will have a "Build for Switch". And Switch will be a 'supported' platform, meaning if a developer can get help if they are using UE4 on Switch (much like Epic provides help for Xbox and PS4).

This 'mobile build' and 'full version' is nonsense. There is UE4. The platforms it supports out the box. The platforms it supports under license (PS4, Xbox One, Switch).

If I had the proper licenses, I could download UE4 and make a game using the same blueprints and assets across all platforms including mobile.

Is it not true that there are limitations (e.g. lighting) related to the mobile platform settings (https://docs.unrealengine.com/latest/INT/Platforms/Mobile/Performance/)? I seem to remember patch notes over the last year or two gradually adding features to the mobile configurations that hadn't been there before.

The distinction is that people are suggesting, whether true or not, that Switch will support a more full set of features for the UE4 build configuration than a typical mobile device.

 

[element]

Is it not true that there are limitations (e.g. lighting) related to the mobile platform settings (https://docs.unrealengine.com/latest/INT/Platforms/Mobile/Performance/)? I seem to remember patch notes over the last year or two gradually adding features to the mobile configurations that hadn't been there before.

That is more because how cast target platforms on mobile can be. Especially due to the insanity of Android hardware. Some features are disabled in the "Build for Android" because there is probably Android hardware that doesn't support what I am trying to do.

The distinction is that people are suggesting, whether true or not, that Switch will support a more full set of features for the UE4 build configuration than a typical mobile device.

That has nothing to do with it being a 'full featured' as again there isn't some gimped version of UE4. There are hardware profiles. These hardware profiles are built with the hardware provider and Epic to make sure licensees get the best out of the software.

My comment comparing it to mobile is that the Switch hardware is just that, ARM/Nvidia SOC, both platforms that Epic already understands and supports. It isn't like Nintendo decided to use some custom exotic architecture that would take significant work on Epic to support properly. Also it being a modern Nvidia GPU means that all those fancy cutting edge features wouldn't be greyed out or bring up errors when building for Switch, since the hardware will support them.

 

[MacTag]

I think the point was Switch's UE4 profile seems more in line with other consoles than it does "fancy cellphones", despite it's choice in processor cores. Which has seemed to come as a surprise to many.

 

[lwilliams3]

That is more because how cast target platforms on mobile can be. Especially due to the insanity of Android hardware. Some features are disabled in the "Build for Android" because there is probably Android hardware that doesn't support what I am trying to do.

That has nothing to do with it being a 'full featured' as again there isn't some gimped version of UE4. There are hardware profiles. These hardware profiles are built with the hardware provider and Epic to make sure licensees get the best out of the software.

My comment comparing it to mobile is that the Switch hardware is just that, ARM/Nvidia SOC, both platforms that Epic already understands and supports. It isn't like Nintendo decided to use some custom exotic architecture that would take significant work on Epic to support properly. Also it being a modern Nvidia GPU means that all those fancy cutting edge features wouldn't be greyed out or bring up errors when building for Switch, since the hardware will support them.

Are you referring to things like the preset catagories? I may need to look at that other UE4 thread again, but I think they may be saying that the Switch is "full featured" because even HH-mode (wolfair) had presets that wasn't at the lowest setting.

 

[Vital Tundra]

I gotta feeling the Switch is going to be great for console JPN titles.

 

[EloquentM]

Didn't Durante med1on say switch presets weren't using the UE4 mobile version?

 

[element]

I think the point was Switch's UE4 profile seems more in line with other consoles than it does "fancy cellphones", despite it's choice in processor cores. Which has seemed to come as a surprise to many.

Actually it doesn't. It has more to do with what APIs the hardware is running. Does the target hardware support OpenGL ES 3.2? Does the target hardware support Vulkan? If not, what is the fallback?

Nvidia will probably announce an updated Tegra X1 that is faster and uses less power than PS4 or Xbox One at CES in a couple days. You take the "cell phone" comment as an insult or something. It is simply calling it what it is and where that hardware is commonly used.

And again, there isn't a 'full version' of UE4 and a stripped down mobile version.

 

[Oregano]

I don't feel the need to admit that I read the OP, but if you ask for it. I just tried to focus on what was said in the OP and by other developers and insiders. A conversation based on what we know.
You came across as someone who wants to focus on his cynicism and not on what we know.

Nirolak posted a interesting list on UE4 based games from Japan. A conversation about which games from that list we would like to see on Switch and what would potentially fit creatively/commercially would be interesting.

Yup, the guy says some major announced UE4 games are coming to Switch. No matter what that means they are PS4 games being downgraded. Would it even be worth mentioning if it was Let it Die, 4 Goddesses Online and Bloodstained?

 

[Jonneh3003]

Flicking through the thread I'm not sure how some people are taking this as bad news

 

[KratosEnergyDrink]

Its better at drawing in modern effects than any current Nintendo engine. Monolith in particular i hope starts using it as opposed to their current engine.

Xenoblade Chronicles X is probably one of the best looking open world games and has a fluid frame rate. Unreal4 is limited in many ways and probably not a decent choice for such games. I really hope Monolith expand their engine instead of using UE4 or another one.

 

[noshten]

The main thing I'm expecting is Western games to be entirely focused about running the game in portable mode - rather than concentrating on fidelity of the docked mode. Simply put I think Western Devs do want an additional million sold and half of that could be done on a device with 10-20 million install base in Japan LTD.
Personally I expect around 5-10 million sales within the first year for the Switch at minimum with the device being especially front-loaded in Japan. It's only limiting factor is the price - I don't think the size of the Switch will be much of an issue as long as it has Splatoon, MK8, YK, Pokemon, new Mario, MH and DQ within it's first year... This type of lineup predisposes huge releases around holidays.

One thing I do wonder is if Western Devs might sell Switch games at a lower price point if it's infact something that does get the "worst" ports - essentially in docked mode. Could pricing for the games be similar to 3DS game pricing or even cheaper for 3rd parties. That's the main thing I'm delibarating - a price of 7000-9000 yen in Japan is pretty steep for compared to the price of certain 3DS games.

Anyhow this is probably going to piss a lot of people off in the West... but on the other hand I think having a strong Japanese Market as the 3DS/Vita are essentially limiting their respective audiences due to weaker hardware. There is currently around 30 million handheld devices in Japan - even if half of this audience transitions to Switch it would be more than Wii U sold world wide in it's entire lifespan. This is potentially too big of an audience for 3rd parties to ignore unless their games/ports completely tank on the Switch. I think portable sport games are a thing that is lacking at the moment so that's also an interesting moment for 3rd parties.
I don't know a lot is riding on the Switch being successful in Japan, WW is anyone's guess and would probably depend on the price of this Nintendo Console Tablet device. Also in the future what type of supplemental devices and hardware can be provided is another interesting aspect, on top of the greater capacity to market via smartphone games/social media/esports..

 

[Ganondolf]

Although this is great news, I would like to hear about other engines running like idtec and frostbite as if they don't work it would limited almost any ports for 2 big publishers.

 

[Oersted]

Although this is great news, I would like to hear about other engines running like idtec and frostbite as if they don't work it would limited almost any ports for 2 big publishers.

I don't see a realistic scenario where Frostbite wouldn't run on Switch.

 

[Skittzo0413]

Actually it doesn't. It has more to do with what APIs the hardware is running. Does the target hardware support OpenGL ES 3.2? Does the target hardware support Vulkan? If not, what is the fallback?

Nvidia will probably announce an updated Tegra X1 that is faster and uses less power than PS4 or Xbox One at CES in a couple days. You take the "cell phone" comment as an insult or something. It is simply calling it what it is and where that hardware is commonly used.

And again, there isn't a 'full version' of UE4 and a stripped down mobile version.

Actually I'm pretty sure the bolded is incorrect. The mobile version has a different rendering process I believe, and a number of other important changes. When you start up a project you can choose to target the full version or the mobile version and the differences are quite noticeable.

The leaked UE4 settings from github tell us that it uses the full version with (I believe) deferred rendering.

 

[element]

Actually I'm pretty sure the bolded is incorrect. The mobile version has a different rendering process I believe, and a number of other important changes. When you start up a project you can choose to target the full version or the mobile version and the differences are quite noticeable.

The leaked UE4 settings from github tell us that it uses the full version with (I believe) deferred rendering.

Again. There isn't a 'full version'. There is UE4 and how you decide to use it. There isn't a specific UE4 download for Mobile and there isn't a separate download for Desktop/Console. Is is the same code path. The tools are the same.

 

[Deft Beck]

I am glad that so many JP developers are using UE4. It will help avoid situations like Square Enix and the Luminous Engine fiasco.

 

[Doctre81]

Again. There isn't a 'full version'. There is UE4 and how you decide to use it. There isn't a specific UE4 download for Mobile and there isn't a separate download for Desktop/Console. Is is the same code path. The tools are the same.

Maybe not but there are suggestions strictly for mobile.
https://docs.unrealengine.com/latest/INT/Platforms/Mobile/Performance/

 

[element]

Maybe not but there are suggestions strictly for mobile.
https://docs.unrealengine.com/latest/INT/Platforms/Mobile/Performance/

So Epic providing information to get the best results on a platform with hundreds of hardware variations now makes it a crippled?

Those suggestions are there because Epic can't guarantee that what you are building will work on ALL android or iOS devices. That doesn't mean or suggest that it won't work on some, especially the ultra high end, which at this point are very close to being powerful than the Xbox One and PS4 GPU.

There are suggestions strictly for PS4 and Xbox One...

 

[7Th]

I gotta feeling the Switch is going to be great for console JPN titles.

That you can also play on the PS4.

 

[Oersted]

That you can also play on the PS4.

Depends. Some games are rather unlikely on PS4.

 

[Skittzo0413]

Again. There isn't a 'full version'. There is UE4 and how you decide to use it. There isn't a specific UE4 download for Mobile and there isn't a separate download for Desktop/Console. Is is the same code path. The tools are the same.

I don't mean to say there are two separate programs, but there are definitely two distinct modes between mobile and console/PC. The development tools are the same but the rendering code is different in those different modes. You can take a project built for consoles or PC and make a mobile build but it will have a different manner of rendering.

The UE4 specs for Switch tell is they use the console/PC mode, with deferred rendering.

 

[DangerMouse]

Now I have the choice between listening to you about Unreal Engine 4 support for Nintendo Switch and people from Epic. Tough choice, but given the topic at hand I choose the latter.

One of his points was just that people from Epic (JP) with a vested interest in pointing out that their (full) engine indeed works on the Switch could say the engine supports the Switch all day and night, doesn't mean all games will automatically be ported to come to it just because they are on UE4 on PS4 and XBone, if so all UE4 games would be on PC, they are not. And hardware specs do matter depending upon how a game was designed due to the specs it was targeting. If it was designed with higher specs and more memory in mind then that obviously makes a program harder to port down even if the engine works on both. Even just having the same amount but split memory on the PS3 reportedly made porting harder in addition to Cell.

Xenoblade Chronicles X is probably one of the best looking open world games and has a fluid frame rate. Unreal4 is limited in many ways and probably not a decent choice for such games. I really hope Monolith expand their engine instead of using UE4 or another one.

Agreed, I liked the first Xenoblade better but I want them to keep refining their stuff.

 

[The Giant]

I gotta feeling the Switch is going to be great for console JPN titles.

Good news for me, since 95% of games I play are from Japanese devs.

 

[Hero of Legend]

Good news for me, since 95% of games I play are from Japanese devs.

*High fives*

Same boat here! Of course I'd love western platformers like Crash and Spyro also, and I could dip my toes into some western stuff that shows up, but me, I'm ALL OVER Japanese developed games!

 

[Oersted]

One of his points was just that people from Epic (JP) with a vested interest in pointing out that their (full) engine indeed works on the Switch could say the engine supports the Switch all day and night, doesn't mean all games will automatically be ported to come to it

At no point did I imply, suggest or expect that and I thought I made that extremely clear enough.


Guess not.

Regarding the tech side of things, allow me to repeat myself.

We heard exclusively good things. From Epic, Nvidia, Gaf insiders, Pachter, Bethesda and folks like Rogers. There might be the magical japanese game which only runs on 4 PS4 Pros ductaped together, but so far no info. I prefer conversations being based on available info.

 

[randomengine]

I don't think old ports will help the console, but I'll take it either way.

Ports almost single-handedly launched the PS4 in its first years.

Let's look at the first years of the console that will win it's generation:

2013
Knack
Killzone: Shadow Fall

2014
Infamous: Second Son
Infamous: First Light
Driveclub

2015
The Order: 1886
Bloodborne
Until Dawn
...

As you can see the exclusives that mattered didn't appear until 2015.

As for the Switch we will get a 3D Mario and a new Zelda in the first year.
Add amazing ports from previous and current gen, many which aren't available in portable form and you have an amazing system and a success.

 

[randomengine]

Flicking through the thread I'm not sure how some people are taking this as bad news

There are always those that want to see Nintendo fail.

 

[Akhe]

Good news for me, since 95% of games I play are from Japanese devs.

*High fives*

Same boat here! Of course I'd love western platformers like Crash and Spyro also, and I could dip my toes into some western stuff that shows up, but me, I'm ALL OVER Japanese developed games!

YES!

 

[TwilightPrincess]

I don't mean to say there are two separate programs, but there are definitely two distinct modes between mobile and console/PC. The development tools are the same but the rendering code is different in those different modes. You can take a project built for consoles or PC and make a mobile build but it will have a different manner of rendering.

The UE4 specs for Switch tell is they use the console/PC mode, with deferred rendering.

There are now smartphones witch run UE 4 in "full mode" (with full featureset, if that is even correct). In reality you don't have to argue, Switch runs the UE 4 that runs on PS4 with the same possible features (but lower). So it's not a gimped version, that's all that matters. If it also runs the same way on high end smartphones doesn't change anything.

 

[Wandering Robot]

I can't really complain about more dev support, personally. The closer we get to the 12th, the more exciting it gets.

If we end up disappointed, though, at least we have this moment. :')

 

[Hermii]

Its better at drawing in modern effects than any current Nintendo engine. Monolith in particular i hope starts using it as opposed to their current engine.

You don't think those current Nintendo engines will be updated to fully support the capabilities of the Switch? You know like every other generation.

 

[lwilliams3]

You don't think those current Nintendo engines will be updated to fully support the capabilities of the Switch? You know like every other generation.

It should also be noted that the Wii U has a dx10-level GPU and the 3DS was dx9 with good fixed shaders. It will be interesting to see Nintendo evolves now that they are focused on one system with modern graphical hardware.