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[FUNKNOWN iXi]

Superman stood for hope, why is this a common thing that's said? People were praying to Superman, that shows how he affected people.

It's just that everyone missed those campy scenes where someone would yell "GO SPIDEY GO" as the camera's looking up from a low angle. This whole "Superman didn't instill hope" doesn't make sense lol, and even if you disagree with that then at least there's still great potential for that to be captured when he returns. The world is threatened, hope is being lost, Superman returns, hope restored, throw in some "OMG MOM IT'S SUPERMANNNN" and they'll have a winner.

 

[Bluth54]

"HEY BOSS, SUPERMAN'S HERE, HE'S ALREADY ROASTING MY INTESTINES BUT I'M GOING TO SCREAM TO GIVE YOU THE SIGNAL SO YOU KNOW TO FRY MARTHA! READY? AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!"


Again, the notion that this order wouldn't be assumed is nothing short of asinine. At best, you're passing the buck by saying that they didn't do the obvious thing because Lex Luthor didn't instruct them to do so. Either they fucked up a very simple thing, or Luthor did.

Don't forget we saw Bruce Wayne's employees not evaluating their building until Bruce Wayne called them and told them to, despite the fact an alien spaceship and 2 alien supergods were destroying the city. It seems like everyone in this universe is too stupid to use a little bit of common sense.

 

[DeathyBoy]

Don't forget we saw Bruce Wayne's employees not evaluating their building until Bruce Wayne called them and told them to, despite the fact an alien spaceship and 2 alien supergods were destroying the city. It seems like everyone in this universe is too stupid to use a little bit of common sense.

They knew he was Batman, he let them die.

 

[Bleepey]

Don't forget we saw Bruce Wayne's employees not evaluating their building until Bruce Wayne called them and told them to, despite the fact an alien spaceship and 2 alien supergods were destroying the city. It seems like everyone in this universe is too stupid to use a little bit of common sense.

Apparently that's established procedure for events like that. There's supposed to be someone in a position of authority who has to stay to get people out. It apparently happened during 9/11. Does anyone have the article on the realistic parts of BVS? It explained all this stuff? It was posted a long time ago.

 

[cr0w]

EDIT: Wrong thread, my bad.

 

[ElTopo]

I like the Ultimate Cut. I liked the theatrical cut too. It still doesn't fix the presence of Jesse Eisenberg (seriously, what the fuck was he doing?) but it clarifies Luthor's scheme a lot better and the bit of gore was appreciated.

I don't remember Batman stabbing the fuck out of that dude in the theatrical version.

 

[Pilgrimzero]

Watched the theatrical version, can't imagine sitting through a longer version. What I watched could have been a full hour shorter.

In fact the only time it was interesting is once Doomsday showed up.

The real crime was Lex. What the shit was that? Lex by way of Carry's Riddler. And why sacrifice Mercy for no good reason? And what was his plan after Doomsday killed Supes? Let him rampage around the world?

And jeeze could anyone be happy in this film? Even Wonder Woman admits she quit caring 100 years ago cause humans are dicks. Can't wait to see how her film ends.

Awful film though somewhat entertaining. Now to go see Suicide Squad.

 

[Gleethor]

Watched the theatrical version, can't imagine sitting through a longer version. What I watched could have been a full hour shorter.

In fact the only time it was interesting is once Doomsday showed up.

The real crime was Lex. What the shit was that? Lex by way of Carry's Riddler. And why sacrifice Mercy for no good reason? And what was his plan after Doomsday killed Supes? Let him rampage around the world?

And jeeze could anyone be happy in this film? Even Wonder Woman admits she quit caring 100 years ago cause humans are dicks. Can't wait to see how her film ends.

Awful film though somewhat entertaining. Now to go see Suicide Squad.

Now I've seen everything.

 

[Bleepey]

Watched the theatrical version, can't imagine sitting through a longer version. What I watched could have been a full hour shorter.

In fact the only time it was interesting is once Doomsday showed up.

The real crime was Lex. What the shit was that? Lex by way of Carry's Riddler. And why sacrifice Mercy for no good reason? And what was his plan after Doomsday killed Supes? Let him rampage around the world?

And jeeze could anyone be happy in this film? Even Wonder Woman admits she quit caring 100 years ago cause humans are dicks. Can't wait to see how her film ends.

Awful film though somewhat entertaining. Now to go see Suicide Squad.

Watch the directors cut. It makes so much more sense. The leaps in logic and plot holes will be mostly fixed and it will fly faster.

 

[Ahasverus]

Watched the theatrical version.

Well there's your problem.

 

[IconGrist]

Watched the theatrical version, can't imagine sitting through a longer version. What I watched could have been a full hour shorter.

In fact the only time it was interesting is once Doomsday showed up.

The real crime was Lex. What the shit was that? Lex by way of Carry's Riddler. And why sacrifice Mercy for no good reason? And what was his plan after Doomsday killed Supes? Let him rampage around the world?

And jeeze could anyone be happy in this film? Even Wonder Woman admits she quit caring 100 years ago cause humans are dicks. Can't wait to see how her film ends.

Awful film though somewhat entertaining. Now to go see Suicide Squad.

I'm not saying you'd like the Ultimate Cut but even the most vocal detractors would have told you not to watch the theatrical cut.

 

[A Link to the Past]

Well there's Warner Bros. problem.

fixed. :v

 

[Nemesis121]

Finished the UC, holyshit this is a better movie and it's actually coherent and not a jumbled cluster fuck, this is what they needed to release in the movies, minus the 2 of Bruce's dreams, from the very beginning Lex knew the identities of Superman/Batman this is why at the party he said Clark Kent meets Bruce Wayne, i love bringing people to together..still my big negative for this movie is Jessie, he was a horrible choice for Lex..

 

[Killer Queen]

Finished the UC, holyshit this is a better movie and it's actually coherent and not a jumbled cluster fuck, this is what they needed to release in the movies, minus the 2 of Bruce's dreams, from the very beginning Lex knew the identities of Superman/Batman this is why at the party he said Clark Kent meets Bruce Wayne, i love bringing people to together..still my big negative for this movie is Jessie, he was a horrible choice for Lex..

I really liked Jessie's performance. I don't think he was the issue, I think it was the direction Synder gave him. For what Synder wanted he was perfect, but Synder's Lex isn't really Lex and I can see why people disliked it. But I wouldn't say it's Jessie's fault. But this is also going off of my limited knowledge of DC so.

 

[Loki]

This was one of the absolute worst movies I've ever seen. There's just too much that's wrong, dull, and inexplicable to go into, but my biggest gripe was how they build up this Batman vs. Supes fight and then in the middle of their fight Superman says "they're gonna kill Martha" (or whatever his mother's name was), and since this is the same as Batman's mother's name, he just all of a sudden has a meltdown and starts asking Supes why he said that, completely forgetting/ignoring all his various motivations for wanting to fight Superman in the first place. Just incredibly contrived and not believable at all. So because they have mothers with the same name he no longer thinks Supes is this ig existential threat to humanity? Terrible.

 

[heliosRAzi]

This was one of the absolute worst movies I've ever seen. There's just too much that's wrong, dull, and inexplicable to go into, but my biggest gripe was how they build up this Batman vs. Supes fight and then in the middle of their fight Superman says "they're gonna kill Martha" (or whatever his mother's name was), and since this is the same as Batman's mother's name, he just all of a sudden has a meltdown and starts asking Supes why he said that, completely forgetting/ignoring all his various motivations for wanting to fight Superman in the first place. Just incredibly contrived and not believable at all. So because they have mothers with the same name he no longer thinks Supes is this ig existential threat to humanity? Terrible.

Uh oh, you said the magic name.

 

[Adam_Vania]

I have a question, all of this talk about Superman being a symbol for hope, where does it stem from? Comics? tHe Reeves movies? I've never read or watched either so it's a genuine question.

Obviously there is the S symbol and stuff, but I'm asking because I wonder if kids these days watch this movie, or any movie, and actually think about what kind of ideals a character stands for. Are there real life kids these days that grow up with characters and look up to them?

you've got it more or less. he's a symbol of hope based on decades of American culture. the Reeves movies for sure but this more or less spans his entire existence.

of course jumping into this movie you would have no idea of all of this because BvS just assumes you know all of this and doesn't do a damn thing to illustrate it or telegraph it. instead it is leaning on decades of far better films, cartoons, comics, etc. to do the heavy lifting for it.

 

[cyberheater]

I watched it for the first time last night.

I've not been this bored watching a superhero movie for a long time. I get that they are trying to do a slow build up but that first hour. My god.

Is this the dumbest Batman has been in any of the movies. Played for a fool by Lex, outsmarted by just about everyone. Sad to see.

It looks gorgeous and the sound design was awesome.

The last 45 mins were great. The battle stuff was tremendous and it was great seeing Wonder Woman in action. It was probably worth dragging myself though the first two hours for the fight scene at the end. The only real negative was that they were fighting a giant grey play doh monster. I've no idea why that monster looked that boring.

Finally, when this movie was announced I knew that they'd go the easy route and conveniently find a lump of Kryptonite from somewhere. Just lazy story telling. If they could't have come up with a better way to defeat Superman then they probably shouldn't have made the movie in the first place.

 

[Triggerhappytel]

Posted this in the 'Movies you've seen recently' topic but thought I'd put it here as there might be more discussion.

I watched Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice fully for the first time the other day (had previously watched bits and pieces). Man, there's so much wrong with this film. It might be easier to discuss my issues in bullet-point format:

• Why do we need to see the Wayne's murder AGAIN?! It's totally unnecessary, made Thomas Wayne look like a fucking idiot because he threw a punch at a man aiming a gun at him, and only exists to establish that Bruce's mother's name is Martha.
• Why do the Wayne Enterprises employees wait until Bruce calls them to evacuate when there's an alien invasion destroying the fucking city about half a mile outside their window?! Bruce should be angry that his staff were idiots.
• Why does anyone even hate Superman in this film? He's clearly a good guy, and nothing like Zod or the other Kryptonians. Yes, he wrecked Metropolis in his battle with them, but the alternative was that they would have literally destroyed the world. Are people really that wilfully stupid in the film that they think Superman is to blame?!
• So shooting the terrorists in Africa and blowing up the courthouse were both done to make it look like Superman was murdering people to make everyone hate him, but this is complete bullshit because you would never mistake these deaths for the actions of Superman. The conflicts they try to create in this film are complete horseshit.
• The bit when Bruce breaks into Luthor's server room to try and hack his emails (lol) is so bad. You even have Luthor's bodyguard or personal assistant (?) who follows him down and then after hearing his lame "I'm looking for the bathroom" excuse she actually believes him and leaves him in there! The videos of Flash et al is an equally terrible payoff which was integrated into the film very poorly. It might have worked as an after-credits stinger, but it just slowed the film down where it was.
• Jesse Eisenberg is the worst comic book supervillain in a movie ever. I hate with a seething passion everything about his performance. The way he's this shrill angry little boy whose motivations are brushed aside in a sentence or two as Daddy Issues. The way he has these little stammers constantly, going "um" or "huh" continuously mid-sentence. His awful interactions and monologues with other characters who have much more on-screen gravitas than he does (like Holly Hunter). Why does he push a boiled sweet into someone's mouth at one point (and why did the guy let him)? The 'Granny's Peach Tea' thing is totally pointless, unless it was to show how he was literally insane because he would piss in a jar, put a label on it and sneak it into a court room to get a one-up on someone. I mean, Lex Luthor is not meant to be insane, right? He's meant to be a conniving businessman and borderline genius, isn't he? Most of all I don't understand his motivations at all - I mean, if he wants rid of Superman because he thinks "devils come from the sky", then why create Doomsday who he cannot control and immediately tries to kill him?! His whole fucking plan is so dumb, but on the other hand it only works because...
• Clark and Bruce are dumb gullible meatheads in this film. Bruce wants to kill Superman because he thinks Superman has been shooting people, and Superman dislikes Batman quite justifiably because Batman straight-up murders a bunch of people in the film. In the very least, a flashback of Joker killing Robin might have been effective, as they could have used it as the catalyst which finally pushed Batman over the edge and to dismiss his no-kill rule. But there's no basis for it, and Batman just murders all criminals with extreme prejudice.
• Superman is also so sombre in this film. He doesn't seem to take any pleasure in helping or saving people. When there are the flooded houses he just floats there looking at the people begging to be saved, and when the courtroom explodes he just stands there and looks mournfully around rather than - you know - actually rushing to put the fire out and see if there's any survivors. Yes he saves people, but he behaves like it's a fucking drag.
• Bruce's dream-within-a-dream is just awful. The enemy gunfighters approach him so he can punch them (why even get close?), it's some kind of weird scenario to make him hate Superman even more and the Flash bit was awful too because it served no purpose in this film and just felt like lame setup for (presumably?) an Injustice story in the future.
• Why does Superman twice fly in from out of nowhere to save Lois, but he can't save or find his mother? And then he goes to fight Batman (which was very convenient timing because Batman was acting completely independent of Lex) all he needed to do was destroy Batman's guns and sonic cannons and then say "You have to stop. Lex Luthor has been manipulating both of us and he said if I don't fight you then he will kill my mother. I need your help." There you go; two concise sentences (three, at most) to explain the situation to Batman and de-escalate the situation. Instead, he wastes his time by saying worthless shit like "Bruce, please listen" and "You don't understand, there's no time", and then proceeds to push Batman around after Batman's completely ineffectual attacks to absolutely nothing to him. It's so dumb. They both behave like fucking idiots.
• The actual fight between them is fucking awful too. Superman pushes Batman around a few times because he's incapable of explaining why they shouldn't fight, and then he gets caught out by the Kryptonite gas grenade, which is fair enough. But, once his strength starts to return he doesn't end the fight immediately with this man who has somehow discovered the only thing in existence which can weaken him, and instead he throws Batman around a bit more, and then when Batman is re-arming another grenade he literally jumps straight into it. What a moron. Why not run away and get the drop when Batman follows, or retreat until your powers fully return, or blast the grenade launcher with his laser eyes, or use something as a shield, or throw some debris at Batman to immobilise him if necessary?! Just the way they behave in this entire fight is bullshit. And then you have Batman, who for some reason puts his Kryptonite spear at the bottom of this large abandoned building, and then goes a few hundred metres outside to set up other traps for Superman - what the fuck?! Why not forge the rock into a knife to keep on himself, or bullets in the auto-guns, or a pair of knuckledusters?! He had no control over the fight initially and they only ended up in that building because Superman happened to throw him that way, so leaving the spear in a hard-to-access location is indescribably dumb.
• Then of course the Martha conceit is incredibly stupid. I mean, I get that Batman is a billionaire psychopath with parent issues, but in order to make it work Superman talked like no person ever would about his mother. Even if he'd said something like "Luthor is going to kill my mother - you have to save her. Her name is Martha Kent", it wouldn't have fit due to the nature of the situation, but it would have made a lot more sense than Superman croaking "SAAAAVE... MAAARTHAAAA" which immediately immobilises Batman and then Lois arrives immediately to tell Batman it's his mummy's name. I don't necessarily think it's bad as a plot device, but they way they handled it was awful.
• Lois working out they needed the spear just because was pretty stupid, but it was probably one of the less stupid parts of the film. She doesn't really have a lot to do other than get saved by Superman, which I guess is why that part exists.
• I don't think the death of Superman is a bad thing, but the DCCU hasn't earned it yet. They didn't really show him as this vital hero, and as an audience member I didn't have a lot of fondness for the character because he's so fucking dour all the time, so I don't really care that he's dead anyway.
• Wonder Woman was great though. She actually smiles, she enjoys fighting Doomsday and her music is really fucking awesome. She's not given a lot to do which is probably a good thing as the rest of the plot is so absurdly stupid, but she's a bright spot in a thoroughly disappointing film.
• Other than that, Zack Snyder makes a good looking film and the CGI is mostly really good (certainly better than in Marvel films). It's just a shame the story and characters are so irredeemably poor.
• Lastly, why the hell did Zod bring Kryptonite aboard his ship?! Again, it's a mineral which is highly toxic to Kryptonians (unless they explained it and I missed it?) and I don't see any good reason why they would have it on board.

3/10, but I can't say I disliked watching it because there was so much wrong it was honestly amusing.

 

[Bleepey]

Why do we need to see the Wayne's murder AGAIN?! It's totally unnecessary, made Thomas Wayne look like a fucking idiot because he threw a punch at a man aiming a gun at him, and only exists to establish that Bruce's mother's name is Martha.

So the Martha moment can resonate with people, it's his father's dying words. Least that's was the intention. Is it far fetched that his father would try to defend his family.

Why do the Wayne Enterprises employees wait until Bruce calls them to evacuate when there's an alien invasion destroying the fucking city about half a mile outside their window?! Bruce should be angry that his staff were idiots.

It's what happened in real life. I think 1) the shock of seeing that men can fly 2) real life security protocols say that people should stay in buildings to protect falling glass

Why does anyone even hate Superman in this film? He's clearly a good guy, and nothing like Zod or the other Kryptonians. Yes, he wrecked Metropolis in his battle with them, but the alternative was that they would have literally destroyed the world. Are people really that wilfully stupid in the film that they think Superman is to blame?!

Were you not awake the last few years. 99% of the damage was Zod, Supes tried to take the fight away but wasn't able to, yet was still blamed.

So shooting the terrorists in Africa and blowing up the courthouse were both done to make it look like Superman was murdering people to make everyone hate him, but this is complete bullshit because you would never mistake these deaths for the actions of Superman. The conflicts they try to create in this film are complete horseshit.

They were there to make it seem like everywhere he goes death follows. Metropolis fight (yes i know Lex didn't cause this), people die. Tries to save his girl, people die. Goes to senate hearing. People die. Remember at the start of the film he has a positive reputation. Monuments are erected in his honour, Daily Planet speaks well of him, newscasters speak glowingly of him and by the end of the film his monuments are defaced, people protest him at the senate hearing and even don't want his help at the bombing.

The bit when Bruce breaks into Luthor's server room to try and hack his emails (lol) is so bad. You even have Luthor's bodyguard or personal assistant (?) who follows him down and then after hearing his lame "I'm looking for the bathroom" excuse she actually believes him and leaves him in there! The videos of Flash et al is an equally terrible payoff which was integrated into the film very poorly. It might have worked as an after-credits stinger, but it just slowed the film down where it was.

The whole point was to not make it too easy. You do realise Luthor knew who everyone was when he loved bringing people together?

Jesse Eisenberg is the worst comic book supervillain in a movie ever. I hate with a seething passion everything about his performance. The way he's this shrill angry little boy whose motivations are brushed aside in a sentence or two as Daddy Issues. The way he has these little stammers constantly, going "um" or "huh" continuously mid-sentence. His awful interactions and monologues with other characters who have much more on-screen gravitas than he does (like Holly Hunter). Why does he push a boiled sweet into someone's mouth at one point (and why did the guy let him)? The 'Granny's Peach Tea' thing is totally pointless, unless it was to show how he was literally insane because he would piss in a jar, put a label on it and sneak it into a court room to get a one-up on someone. I mean, Lex Luthor is not meant to be insane, right? He's meant to be a conniving businessman and borderline genius, isn't he? Most of all I don't understand his motivations at all - I mean, if he wants rid of Superman because he thinks "devils come from the sky", then why create Doomsday who he cannot control and immediately tries to kill him?! His whole fucking plan is so dumb, but on the other hand it only works because...

You didn't notice the contrast of the senator literally eating out of his hand to the other senator who refuses to take the bourbon and knows bullshit when she sees it despite what you call it.

Clark and Bruce are dumb gullible meatheads in this film. Bruce wants to kill Superman because he thinks Superman has been shooting people, and Superman dislikes Batman quite justifiably because Batman straight-up murders a bunch of people in the film. In the very least, a flashback of Joker killing Robin might have been effective, as they could have used it as the catalyst which finally pushed Batman over the edge and to dismiss his no-kill rule. But there's no basis for it, and Batman just murders all criminals with extreme prejudice.

1) he doesn't think Superman killed people.
2) everyone killed by Batman shot first
3)what do you think the Robin costume with bullet holes in them was? Freaks dressed like clowns? Alfred saying throughout the film, yo Bruce you're kind of acting like a prick.

Superman is also so sombre in this film. He doesn't seem to take any pleasure in helping or saving people. When there are the flooded houses he just floats there looking at the people begging to be saved, and when the courtroom explodes he just stands there and looks mournfully around rather than - you know - actually rushing to put the fire out and see if there's any survivors. Yes he saves people, but he behaves like it's a fucking drag.

Oh come on really, You don't even see his face in the flood. He was grinninhg when savingf ther girl from the bilding, but objected to being worshipped like a God. You know like this:

Bruce's dream-within-a-dream is just awful. The enemy gunfighters approach him so he can punch them (why even get close?), it's some kind of weird scenario to make him hate Superman even more and the Flash bit was awful too because it served no purpose in this film and just felt like lame setup for (presumably?) an Injustice story in the future.

It's also to give him motivation to start the league.

Why does Superman twice fly in from out of nowhere to save Lois, but he can't save or find his mother? And then he goes to fight Batman (which was very convenient timing because Batman was acting completely independent of Lex) all he needed to do was destroy Batman's guns and sonic cannons and then say "You have to stop. Lex Luthor has been manipulating both of us and he said if I don't fight you then he will kill my mother. I need your help." There you go; two concise sentences (three, at most) to explain the situation to Batman and de-escalate the situation. Instead, he wastes his time by saying worthless shit like "Bruce, please listen" and "You don't understand, there's no time", and then proceeds to push Batman around after Batman's completely ineffectual attacks to absolutely nothing to him. It's so dumb. They both behave like fucking idiots.

First time, you don't think he asked someone from the planet where Lois was? It's never stated the limits of his hearing. Second time he saved Lois, she was screaming whilst his mum was gagged. Also in the previous movie, it says his powers are usually turned off.

The actual fight between them is fucking awful too. Superman pushes Batman around a few times because he's incapable of explaining why they shouldn't fight, and then he gets caught out by the Kryptonite gas grenade, which is fair enough. But, once his strength starts to return he doesn't end the fight immediately with this man who has somehow discovered the only thing in existence which can weaken him, and instead he throws Batman around a bit more, and then when Batman is re-arming another grenade he literally jumps straight into it. What a moron. Why not run away and get the drop when Batman follows, or retreat until your powers fully return, or blast the grenade launcher with his laser eyes, or use something as a shield, or throw some debris at Batman to immobilise him if necessary?! Just the way they behave in this entire fight is bullshit. And then you have Batman, who for some reason puts his Kryptonite spear at the bottom of this large abandoned building, and then goes a few hundred metres outside to set up other traps for Superman - what the fuck?! Why not forge the rock into a knife to keep on himself, or bullets in the auto-guns, or a pair of knuckledusters?! He had no control over the fight initially and they only ended up in that building because Superman happened to throw him that way, so leaving the spear in a hard-to-access location is indescribably dumb.

Some good points some not so. I am too lazy at the moment to go through each one.
Then of course the Martha conceit is incredibly stupid. I mean, I get that Batman is a billionaire psychopath with parent issues, but in order to make it work Superman talked like no person ever would about his mother. Even if he'd said something like "Luthor is going to kill my mother - you have to save her. Her name is Martha Kent", it wouldn't have fit due to the nature of the situation, but it would have made a lot more sense than Superman croaking "SAAAAVE... MAAARTHAAAA" which immediately immobilises Batman and then Lois arrives immediately to tell Batman it's his mummy's name. I don't necessarily think it's bad as a plot device, but they way they handled it was awful.

It could have been handled better.

Lois working out they needed the spear just because was pretty stupid, but it was probably one of the less stupid parts of the film. She doesn't really have a lot to do other than get saved by Superman, which I guess is why that part exists.

Yeah it was kinda stupid. It's not like the film mentioned power was being drawn to a kryptonian scout ship, or that somewthing was flying like as kryptonian, or shot out eyebeams like a you get the idea. Do people really need this shit spelt out to them or do they just not pay attention? It's hard for people to laugh at the argument BVS is too smart for some people when despite some of BVS's faults there is stuff like this which is explained and shown in film.

I don't think the death of Superman is a bad thing, but the DCCU hasn't earned it yet. They didn't really show him as this vital hero, and as an audience member I didn't have a lot of fondness for the character because he's so fucking dour all the time, so I don't really care that he's dead anyway.

I'd be dour too if everytime you try to do good. Shit goes awry or you're blamed for shit beyond your control.

Wonder Woman was great though. She actually smiles, she enjoys fighting Doomsday and her music is really fucking awesome. She's not given a lot to do which is probably a good thing as the rest of the plot is so absurdly stupid, but she's a bright spot in a thoroughly disappointing film.
Other than that, Zack Snyder makes a good looking film and the CGI is mostly really good (certainly better than in Marvel films). It's just a shame the story and characters are so irredeemably poor.
Lastly, why the hell did Zod bring Kryptonite aboard his ship?! Again, it's a mineral which is highly toxic to Kryptonians (unless they explained it and I missed it?) and I don't see any good reason why they would have it on board.

I thought it was a byproduct of terraforming or maybe a fuel source. I don't know

 

[Veelk]

Oh come on really, You don't even see his face in the flood. He was grinninhg when savingf ther girl from the bilding, but objected to being worshipped like a God. You know like this:

Just so everyone knows, the context of that image has nothing to do with worship.

In the comic, Superman is trying to help with world hunger by delivering food to desperate countries. However, the problem with that is that people who are hungry enough are just kind of attacking superman just to get to the food that he's delivering to them. The description reads as "The tearing fingers", and Superman describes them as desperate unthinking mob. For some reason, they see him as a barrier between them and the food, and if he doesn't leave they'll turn to attacking each other. The next panel after this has Superman dig underground to escape them, and the people literally don't care or even notice he's gone or that he emerged a few feet beside them. They aren't worshiping him, they just want the food.

Other than the superficial visual similarity of 'hands on superman', there is literally nothing in common between the stupid scene Bleepey is desperately trying to justify and the comic he posted.

 

[GuitarAtomik]

They were there to make it seem like everywhere he goes death follows. Metropolis fight (yes i know Lex didn't cause this), people die. Tries to save his girl, people die. Goes to senate hearing. People die. Remember at the start of the film he has a positive reputation. Monuments are erected in his honour, Daily Planet speaks well of him, newscasters speak glowingly of him and by the end of the film his monuments are defaced, people protest him at the senate hearing and even don't want his help at the bombing.

I don't think that was so much the original intent (with the Africa scene). That scene was supposed to be the catalyst/tipping point for people to really turn on him. It makes so much more sense in the Ultimate cut where Lex's men burned the bodies and paid the woman from the village off to make it seem like he rolled in there and murdered everyone. It just fell victim to them having to cut the movie down which was a totally questionable decision (specifically making that scene more vague).

 

[Dalek]

Just so everyone knows, the context of that image has nothing to do with worship.

In the comic, Superman is trying to help with world hunger by delivering food to desperate countries. However, the problem with that is that people who are hungry enough are just kind of attacking superman just to get to the food that he's delivering to them. The description reads as "The tearing fingers", and Superman describes them as desperate unthinking mob. For some reason, they see him as a barrier between them and the food, and if he doesn't leave they'll turn to attacking each other. The next panel after this has Superman dig underground to escape them, and the people literally don't care or even notice he's gone or that he emerged a few feet beside them. They just want the food.

Other than the superficial visual similarity of 'hands on superman', there is literally nothing in common between the stupid scene Bleepey is desperately trying to justify and the comic he posted.

Absolutely correct-and by the way this is my favorite Superman story. It's wonderfully touching.

 

[Ninjimbo]

Posted this in the 'Movies you've seen recently' topic but thought I'd put it here as there might be more discussion.

I read most of that and I feel you missed the point. Constantly.

 

[lamaroo]

So shooting the terrorists in Africa and blowing up the courthouse were both done to make it look like Superman was murdering people to make everyone hate him, but this is complete bullshit because you would never mistake these deaths for the actions of Superman. The conflicts they try to create in this film are complete horseshit.

This was covered in the extended edition, they burned the bodies and made sure the only witness said Superman did it with his laser eyes.

In fact, most of the stuff that helped make sense of the plot were cut out of the theatrical release for whatever reason.

 

[Veelk]

This was covered in the extended edition, they burned the bodies and made sure the only witness said Superman did it with his laser eyes.

In fact, most of the stuff that helped make sense of the plot were cut out of the theatrical release for whatever reason.

Honestly, even if you take that into account, it still makes no sense. Those laser eyes melt steel beams. Unless they also somehow brought a super powerful laser or something, I don't see how anyone who looks at the bodies would buy that.

 

[Mr_Zombie]

Triggerhappytel, some of your complains are valid. Others... well, they were explained clearly in the movie.

Why do we need to see the Wayne's murder AGAIN?! It's totally unnecessary, made Thomas Wayne look like a fucking idiot because he threw a punch at a man aiming a gun at him, and only exists to establish that Bruce's mother's name is Martha.

Because that's the most important event that happened in Bruce's life - it's basically the origin of Batman. It's also a catalyst for the (nice on paper, stupidly executed) twist during the Bat vs Supes battle. It was also just 2 - 3 minutes of the opening, which most movies spends showing... just various things or landscapes anyway, so there's really no damage done there.

Why does anyone even hate Superman in this film? He's clearly a good guy, and nothing like Zod or the other Kryptonians. Yes, he wrecked Metropolis in his battle with them, but the alternative was that they would have literally destroyed the world. Are people really that wilfully stupid in the film that they think Superman is to blame?!

Not everyone. Some people hate him, or rather fear him because he's basically a god who could destroy the whole city with his eyes if he wanted to. That's why there's the whole Senate hearing - to decide if a person with such power could be free to do whatever he pleases without any obligations.

Other people revere him. There's a statue of Superman in the center of Metropolis.

So shooting the terrorists in Africa and blowing up the courthouse were both done to make it look like Superman was murdering people to make everyone hate him, but this is complete bullshit because you would never mistake these deaths for the actions of Superman. The conflicts they try to create in this film are complete horseshit.

No, it was to make him look bad. To make it look like he draws death and destruction whenever he goes; and also to show that even with all the power he has, he is useless. (the bomb at the Senate was planted in such a way that Superman was unable to detect it before it went off).

Most of all I don't understand his motivations at all - I mean, if he wants rid of Superman because he thinks "devils come from the sky", then why create Doomsday who he cannot control and immediately tries to kill him?! His whole fucking plan is so dumb, but on the other hand it only works because...

He thought he could control Doomsday because it was created using his blood. Well, he was simply wrong.

And Doomsday was a backup plan. The primary plan was to make people hate Superman and to put him against Batman.

Clark and Bruce are dumb gullible meatheads in this film. Bruce wants to kill Superman because he thinks Superman has been shooting people, and Superman dislikes Batman quite justifiably because Batman straight-up murders a bunch of people in the film.

Bruce wants to kill Clark because he thinks that a person of such power is dangerous. Seriously, it was even one of the lines in the trailer: "That son of a bitch brought the war to us two years ago. Jesus, Alfred, count the dead... thousands of people. What's next? Millions? He has the power to wipe out the entire human race, and if we believe there's even a one percent chance that he is our enemy we have to take it as an absolute certainty... and we have to destroy him." And it was clearly stated by Alfred, that Superman "is not our enemy", but Bruce is simply afraid of powerful entities that can turn evil.

And Clark simply wants to stop Bruce's whole vigilante thing because he thinks Batman is violent (well, he is).

In the very least, a flashback of Joker killing Robin might have been effective, as they could have used it as the catalyst which finally pushed Batman over the edge and to dismiss his no-kill rule. But there's no basis for it, and Batman just murders all criminals with extreme prejudice.

Uhm, there's:
- destroyed Robin's costume with Joker's writings all over it
- destroyed Wayne's mansion
- Bruce's comment: "Twenty years in Gotham, Alfred; we've seen what promises are worth. How many good guys are left? How many stayed that way? "
- Bruce's comment: "Maybe it's that Gotham City and me... we just have a bad history with freaks dressed like clowns. "

Yes, the movie doesn't show you the exact scene that pushes Batman over the edge, but it clearly indicates that over those 20 years a lot happened that got Batman to the place he is right now.

Superman is also so sombre in this film. He doesn't seem to take any pleasure in helping or saving people. When there are the flooded houses he just floats there looking at the people begging to be saved, and when the courtroom explodes he just stands there and looks mournfully around rather than - you know - actually rushing to put the fire out and see if there's any survivors. Yes he saves people, but he behaves like it's a fucking drag.

He does eventually save those flooding people.
And he couldn't really do anything about the bomb, because the second he understood there's a bomb in the courtroom, it was too late - it already exploded destroying everything around him. And in that moment he knew he failed.

The theatrical cut is also guilty of cutting way too much things. In the extended cut there's a scene where Superman helps rescue the survivors of the bombing incident.

Bruce's dream-within-a-dream is just awful.

Yes, yes it is.

(which was very convenient timing because Batman was acting completely independent of Lex)

No, he wasn't. Luthor was toying with both Supes and Batman at the same plan. Those letters Bruce was receiving ("Your family died because of YOU" - or something like that) was to feed Bruce with guilt and hate. It was all orchestrated by Lex.

all he needed to do was destroy Batman's guns and sonic cannons and then say "You have to stop. Lex Luthor has been manipulating both of us and he said if I don't fight you then he will kill my mother. I need your help." There you go; two concise sentences (three, at most) to explain the situation to Batman and de-escalate the situation. Instead, he wastes his time by saying worthless shit like "Bruce, please listen" and "You don't understand, there's no time", and then proceeds to push Batman around after Batman's completely ineffectual attacks to absolutely nothing to him. It's so dumb. They both behave like fucking idiots.

Yes, they were both idiots. Batman was an idiot who at the moment was seething with rage and all he wanted to do was to kill Superman (and thus didn't listen to any reasoning). And Superman was naive enough to think that he can reason with Batman, and thus didn't destroy his guns/tech and instead started with the whole "Bruce, please listen".

Then of course the Martha conceit is incredibly stupid. I mean, I get that Batman is a billionaire psychopath with parent issues, but in order to make it work Superman talked like no person ever would about his mother. Even if he'd said something like "Luthor is going to kill my mother - you have to save her. Her name is Martha Kent", it wouldn't have fit due to the nature of the situation, but it would have made a lot more sense than Superman croaking "SAAAAVE... MAAARTHAAAA" which immediately immobilises Batman and then Lois arrives immediately to tell Batman it's his mummy's name. I don't necessarily think it's bad as a plot device, but they way they handled it was awful.

As I said earlier - the idea was good on paper: Batman in that moment was to realize that he became the man he feared - the murderer of his parents, and "Martha" (the last thing his father said before he died) was the keyword to wake him up. However, the execution was terrible and far-fetched with Clark unable to simply say "save my mother" or "save Martha Kent", or anything that would sound realistic.

Lois working out they needed the spear just because was pretty stupid, but it was probably one of the less stupid parts of the film. She doesn't really have a lot to do other than get saved by Superman, which I guess is why that part exists.

I don't remember right now, but she probably concluded that the thing Superman and co. are fighting came from the Zod's spaceship. And if the spear was able to hurt Superman, it could probably hurt the monster that was brought/created in Kryptonian's spaceship.

I don't think the death of Superman is a bad thing, but the DCCU hasn't earned it yet. They didn't really show him as this vital hero, and as an audience member I didn't have a lot of fondness for the character because he's so fucking dour all the time, so I don't really care that he's dead anyway.

True that. DCCU Superman didn't really get that much character development and wasn't really shown as a good person, especially in BvS.

 

[Mr_Zombie]

Honestly, even if you take that into account, it still makes no sense. Those laser eyes melt steel beams. Unless they also somehow brought a super powerful laser or something, I don't see how anyone who looks at the bodies would buy that.

Not that I want to defend BvS, but looking at "news" people believed in the past few months... Yes, people would buy that. People believe that vaccines cause autism or that Hillary and Obama have a child traffic/pedophile club in a pizzeria's basement. People are stupid.

 

[Veelk]

Not that I want to defend BvS, but looking at "news" people believed in the past few months... Yes, people would buy that. People believe that vaccines cause autism or that Hillary and Obama have a child traffic/pedophile club in a pizzeria's basement. People are stupid.

Oh, true, very true. I'm not making any doubts about that.

I just don't think the movie knows how poor the set up is. If it did, atleast the smart people would have spotted the tell. Batman should take one look at that and realize that things don't add up and someone is clearly trying to frame Supes. Of course, the defense for that is the ever piss weak "But he's angry and shit", which is justification enough for him to make obviously dumb decisions.

But if nothing else, Lois who KNOWS it's a set up should be pointing it out. She should just be writing all "Superman's lasers melt steel beams" articles and having the bodies analyzed for chemical residue (if they used flamethrowers or gasoline, which they probably did) as evidence that something is off here, but she feels the need to look for some magic bullet.

I mean, I can agree that even with those inconsistencies, people would happily eat that up in this 1984 world of "we believe what we want", but if it was just that, the intelligent characters would have discerned the errors.

 

[GuitarAtomik]

^^ Yeah, I think it's not so damning of the public in the movie as it is of Batman. It makes the world's greatest detective seem like an easily manipulated idiot. Even with the rage angle, he should be smarter.

 

[YesNOnoNOYes]

:O this thread is alive again :O

Bleepey, thanks for that background info on Supes and that scene. Very interesting!

Triggerhappytel, I agree that BvS has issues but I still like the attempt that DCEU is trying to pull with its superhero titles.

And for anyone who is interested to chat with fellow moviesGAF, we have a moviesGAF channel at discord, click to join: https://discord.gg/MyddK

 

[Mr_Zombie]

It's also to give him motivation to start the league.

You don't start looking for people with special abilities just because you had a bad dream. And both the Knightmare and Flash's from the future were presented as that - dreams.

I think being attacked by alien species who are strong, can fly and shoot lasers from their eyes, and then, two years later, by a huge monster that can survive a nuclear bomb is enough reasons to start the League.


Eh, I'm really mixed about the movie. It had a great and unusual idea - to show both Batman and Superman how they are seen by common peers. But at the same time it fails because it spends too much time on unnecesarily nonsense (the whole Lois' investigation that eventually adds nothing to the story; the Knightmare and Flash's visit; the YouTube videos of Flash, Cyborg and Aquaman), making the story too complicated for its own sake (and cutting a lot of important things from the theatrical cut because reasons) and giving Lex too much time to spout stupid shit. It should focus more on developing the titular characters and thus truly show the differences between them. Instead we got mopey Superman (why is there so few scenes between Clark and Lois? In that one scene at the beginning of the movie they are clearly so happy - why couldn't we get more of that?) and maniacal Batman, with their current state of mind explained somewhere in-between the dialogs.

Plus, the "Martha" scene that's executed terribly and which has no real conclusion. I mean, just seconds ago Batman thought that Superman is too powerful to exist among common man and wanted to kill him. Now, he's cool with that and doesn't even mention it.

 

[SliChillax]

Posted this in the 'Movies you've seen recently' topic but thought I'd put it here as there might be more discussion.

It's not Lex Luthor it's Lex Jr

 

[IconGrist]

It's not Lex Luthor it's Lex Jr

I don't know why people keep parroting this. Yes, he's a Jr but he's still Lex Luthor. There is no "actual" Lex Luthor going to jump in at some point and take over.

 

[Adam Blue]

I think it's been proven that this is a very different movie than a typical superhero blockbuster. I'm not trying to say it's made better/worse than other superhero films, but BvS does a good job telling you the story without exposition. What would appear to be throwaway dialogue or visuals is actually part of the world building. Lex making that basketball shot is a huge part of his motivations for the film. On the surface, that doesn't make much sense. Much like the candy scene many have issues with.

What I took away from the movie is this is my preferred method of story telling. Reminds me a lot of Dark Souls and Bloodborne - the world building is done in each scene, locations, character actions, etc, but if you're not dissecting what's around you, you won't get it and may feel empty.

 

[SlimySnake]

I am going to take a stab at this even though several others have already.

made Thomas Wayne look like a fucking idiot because he threw a punch at a man aiming a gun at him,

It's idiotic that Thomas decides to punch the guy, but it sets up a very critical character trait of Bruce in this movie.... he's an idiot, brute, shoot first think later kinda guy. Or like he says, from a family of hunters. There is no rule that says heroes cannot have faults. Besides, the title sequence was beautiful. Snyder at his best.

Why do the Wayne Enterprises employees wait until Bruce calls them to evacuate...

Yes absolutely idiotic. poor writing.

Are people really that wilfully stupid in the film that they think Superman is to blame?!

People dislike him because he is better in every way. and in today's world it's popular to hate popular things. the whole point of that montage of him saving regular people vs pundits shitting on him was that he is loved by the people he touches and hated by assholes who watch fox news and cnn all day. i look at Hillary's resume and wonder just why the fuck even democrats hate her so much. trump's unfavorables were at 64%, she was at 58%. Trump at that point had insulted mexicans, blacks, women, homosexuals, muslims, jews and even assaulted women. Hillary spent her life fighting for womens and childrens rights and she was hated on 24/7 for what? emails? lying a few times? not being authentic? why is it so hard to believe that people will find something to hate superman over

So shooting the terrorists in Africa and blowing up the courthouse were both done to make it look like Superman was murdering people to make everyone hate him, but this is complete bullshit because you would never mistake these deaths for the actions of Superman.

T. in the extended edition, this is better explained. they have a witness planted by Lex who says Superman did it. she is the key witness in the hearings. she has change of heart and is then killed by KGBeast.

The videos of Flash et al is an equally terrible payoff which was integrated into the film very poorly. It might have worked as an after-credits stinger, but it just slowed the film down where it was.

Yes, it was very poorly done and ruined the entire setup to the fight.

Jesse Eisenberg is the worst comic book supervillain in a movie ever.

he's fine. not the best representation of Lex but you want kevin spacey again? whats wrong with spicing things up a bit hes a young rich mega billionare. lots of young big billionares running around sillicon valley at the moment. maybe he played it a bit too eccentric but he kept things interesting at least. much better than the shitty marvel villains we are used to getting.

Bruce wants to kill Superman because he thinks Superman has been shooting people

no no. A lot of people miss and i blame Snyder's filmmaking skills for this but his reasoning for taking out Superman is very explicitly laid out in the movie. He himself says that superman can kill everyone in the world if he wanted to and he doesnt trust an alien to take it easy on us. the flash fowards dont help.

all he needed to do was destroy Batman's guns and sonic cannons and then say "You have to stop. Lex Luthor has been manipulating both of us and he said if I don't fight you then he will kill my mother. I need your help."

again, poor storytelling and even worse writing. the screenplay failed them there. they spent two hours building this fight and it worked until they both are face to face and dont talk it out first. Batman's convictions are so strong that superman should not have been able to convince him to help. and yet at the same time, Superman has no idea this guy is carrying kryptonite that can render him useless and he has no time. if you had a half an hour to save your mom, would you really sit there and convince this guy who is being a total douche to help you? no you would push him around and make him help you.

The actual fight between them is fucking awful too.

Yes, completely agreed. awful fight.

Then of course the Martha conceit is incredibly stupid.

it's stupid but it goes back to my original point about batman not trusting him and seeing him as an alien. when he realizes that Clark is from this planet he does a 180 because well, he's no longer an alien and just a kid who loves his mother. just like Bruce once did.

I don't think the death of Superman is a bad thing, but the DCCU hasn't earned it yet.

Yes

Wonder Woman was great though. She actually smiles, she enjoys fighting Doomsday

Yes.

and her music is really fucking awesome.

WTF, no! it's the worst soundtrack hans zimmer has ever scored. just awful.

Lastly, why the hell did Zod bring Kryptonite aboard his ship?

the kyrptonite was from the indian ocean where the terraformer in the first movie was trying to recreate Krypton's environment. Zod had nothing to do with it.

3/10, but I can't say I disliked watching it because there was so much wrong it was honestly amusing.

And this is the problem i have with folks who dislike this movie. it is not a 3/10 movie. is it flawed? yes. But in no way is it a bad movie like Thor 2, Iron Man 2, fucking Ghost Rider and Daredevil. Those movies are in the 3-4 range.

And while BvS has problems with storytelling, editing and characterization at least it tries to give its characters some depth and motivations. At least they spent time building the hatred b/w the two and tried to show how deep Batman was willing to go to achieve his objective and how lonely superman felt despite being loved by many. Sure Snyder cant shoot a film with such subtle characterization but at least he fucking tried. I look at other comic book movies and it's amazing how formulaic they have all become. And the moment they try to do something different like Civil War they fall into the same trap as BvS where they fail to setup proper motivations and kind of meander towards the conclusion. i think both movies suffer from these same issues and yet Civil War escaped all criticism. bizarre.

But going back to bad movies and movies that try to do too much and fail, I'd take studios trying to create drama through characters over drama through yet another destroy the world plot device in shape of a generic villain like most comic book movies do nowadays.
This Batman is flawed. Get used to it. Orphans dont generally turn into shining knights. They have issues. Men as the grow older become bitter. Especially those who have been tormented by freaks and clowns their entire adult life as they try to do the right thing. This superman is mopey, get used to it. this guy spends half his day trying to help people and all 24/7 cable news wants to talk about is how he is an alien who doesnt belong here and how he should mind his own fucking business. Who wouldnt be mopey if they were appreciated?

 

[Bleepey]

This pretty much explains the most pertinent parts of Lex's plot. This hopefully clears up any confusion and ambiguity.

 

[JB1981]

This pretty much explains the most pertinent parts of Lex's plot. This hopefully clears up any confusion and ambiguity.

What the fuck is this lol

 

[Bleepey]

What the fuck is this lol

Evidence of someone with too much time on their hands or misplaced properties.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

What the fuck is this lol

Aunt Flow..

 

[GuitarAtomik]

This pretty much explains the most pertinent parts of Lex's plot. This hopefully clears up any confusion and ambiguity.

I get that Doomsday is there in case Superman wins, but why would the mercenaries be there in case Batman wins? If Doomsday is there to kill a victorious Superman, the mercs are there to....finish off Martha...if Batman wins......even though he doesn't even know she exists? If the plan is to kill Martha regardless who wins, why not just kill her?

 

[Bleepey]

I get that Doomsday is there in case Superman wins, but why would the mercenaries be there in case Batman wins? If Doomsday is there to kill a victorious Superman, the mercs are there to....finish off Martha...if Batman wins......even though he doesn't even know she exists? If the plan is to kill Martha regardless who wins, why not just kill her?

I assumed incase Superman told Batman what happened.

 

[DeathyBoy]

Evidence of someone with too much time on their hands or misplaced properties.

Yeah, it's almost like we're in a BvS thread with 200 plus pages...

 

[Veelk]

You know, laying it all out like that kind of highlights how stupid Lex's plan is. I mean, first it relies on the idea that both characters can't see through the obvious deception of 'violence follows him everywhere he goes', which both of them have to clutch the idiot ball hard to do. Then I really question how the two getting involved in a verbal slap fight will 'raise antagonism' in any meaningful way, and doesn't really accomplish anything other than allow Bruce to hack him for info on the other meta humans, which...why would Lex want? I mean, maybe I'm genuinely forgetting because I haven't seen the movie in months at this point, so let me know if I'm wrong. And I like how the final step of the plan is "Fuck it, if superman survives, Doomsday, bitch!"

 

[Lokimaru]

I think people interpret that scene wrong.

Superman isn't telling Bruce to save his Mom in that Scene he telling him to save Martha cause he's still trying to hide that he's Clark Kent, it's Lois that clarifies who Martha is in relation to Superman. If Lex had Perry, Superman would have said Save Perry the same way. That coupled with Lois, a human defending Supes is what snaps Bruce out of his Killrage.

 

[Bleepey]

You know, laying it all out like that kind of highlights how stupid Lex's plan is. I mean, first it relies on the idea that both characters can't see through the obvious deception of 'violence follows him everywhere he goes', which both of them have to clutch the idiot ball hard to do. Then I really question how the two getting involved in a verbal slap fight will 'raise antagonism' in any meaningful way, and doesn't really accomplish anything other than allow Bruce to hack him for info on the other meta humans, which...why would Lex want? I mean, maybe I'm genuinely forgetting because I haven't seen the movie in months at this point, so let me know if I'm wrong. And I like how the final step of the plan is "Fuck it, if superman survives, Doomsday, bitch!"

I don't know why you'd assume both characters could see through it. Why would anyone suspect Lex? Why would Batman think someone is framing him for being too violent, or his violence having unforeseen actions. When the bat brands leads to deaths in the film even Batman is confused. Who would have means, motive and opportunity? That could be a lot of people. Why would Superman think someone is trying to frame him? The only thing tying everything to Lex was the bullet and the flowchart explains why the incriminating bullets were needed to force government collusion with the frame up. I guess BVS in the interest of crossing every t and dotting every I confused people. Civil War kept it simple even though there are so many things that rely on luck or don't make sense if you think about them too long. Also, the Martha scene makes more sense if you think about it as Clark thinking he still as his secret identity and he's saying Martha Kent but audiences will forget that when it's well Superman who doesn't wear a mask

 

[Mr_Zombie]

Also, the Martha scene makes more sense if you think about it as Clark thinking he still as his secret identity and he's saying Martha Kent but audiences will forget that when it's well Superman who doesn't wear a mask

Given that all he was saying was "Save Martha", it's still very far-fetched. How many Marthas are there in Metropolis, Gotham and all its surroundings? And why is this one so important that Superman is talking about her on his (given his situation) death bed?

The execution of this scene is still too awkward.

 

[Veelk]

I don't know why you'd assume both characters could see through it. Why would anyone suspect Lex? Why would Batman think someone is framing him for being too violent, or his violence having unforeseen actions. When the bat brands leads to deaths in the film even Batman is confused. Who would have means, motive and opportunity? That could be a lot of people. Why would Superman think someone is trying to frame him? The only thing tying everything to Lex was the bullet and the flowchart explains why the incriminating bullets were needed to force government collusion with the frame up. I guess BVS in the interest of crossing every t and dotting every I confused people. Civil War kept it simple even though there are so many things that rely on luck or don't make sense if you think about them too long. Also, the Martha scene makes more sense if you think about it as Clark thinking he still as his secret identity and he's saying Martha Kent but audiences will forget that when it's well Superman who doesn't wear a mask

Again, civil war. It's like it's literally pathological with you.

Anyway, your wrong about that too for reasons outlined above. The set up is so very obviously, clearly, blatantly a set up that anyone applying a modicrum of scrutiny would have spotted the tells. Batman would have noticed that his laser eyes would have literally melted the bodies, Superman would have remembered that he didn't burn anyone and that it was made to look like he did and that the lady telling the senate that he did was lying. And I don't even know how you worked out that yelling out a single name to a person that has no association with you and that name somehow makes more sense than if Batman knew about Superman's identity (which he doesn't, which is why he had no clue who Martha was).

 

[Bleepey]

Given that all he was saying was "Save Martha", it's still very far-fetched. How many Marthas are there in Metropolis, Gotham and all its surroundings? And why is this one so important that Superman is talking about her on his (given his situation) death bed?

The execution of this scene is still too awkward.

He clearly tries to say Martha Kent. Listen you can hear the choking. Martha was his father's last word.

Again, civil war. It's like it's literally pathological with you.

Anyway, your wrong about that too for reasons outlined above. The set up is so very obviously, clearly, blatantly a set up that anyone applying a modicrum of scrutiny would have spotted the tells. Batman would have noticed that his laser eyes would have literally melted the bodies, Superman would have remembered that he didn't burn anyone and that it was made to look like he did and that the lady telling the senate that he did was lying. And I don't even know how you worked out that yelling out a single name to a person that has no association with you and that name somehow makes more sense than if Batman knew about Superman's identity (which he doesn't, which is why he had no clue who Martha was).

1) next time you or anyone says civil war did things better I'll stil do it. I'll settle for Martha moments over the reason they stopped playfighting was because Vision missed Falcon and got the guy in the near invulnerable super suit. If he got falcon he would have either shot him and killed him instantly or got his glider and led to him falling to his death. It's weird Snyder is held to a higher standard, Richard Donner has Superman torture Zod, before throwing him against a wall to crack his ribs and drown yet, snapping Zod's neck to save the planet is beyond the pale.

2) You do realise the bodies were burnt in the film. Also why would Batman go to Africa to play coroner. When reputable sources from press to govt agencies are saying Superman's actions caused unforeseen events. Also the film literally has Superman say "I didn't kill those people". What do you think the senate hearing was for? To see him flex and have people mirin his pecs whilst mock his receding hairline. No it was for him to explain and defend himself cos of the Africa incident. Holly hunter said as much.

3) if he's trying to say save Martha Kent and Lex took her but he could not be so chatty cos he had a boot to his throat at the same time.

 

[JB1981]

Man I really really wanted to see that scene where Supes faces the US government and explains himself. In fact, after seeing the first trailer I was assumed that the senate testimony was going to be about his actions during the Black Zero Event, not a new incident in Africa.