Most Sympathetic Villain and/or One You Agreed With? (Spoilers Likely)
- Thread starter Back-In-Black
- Start date
Yoshikage Kira just wanted a quiet life. Can't help that he was born with his tastes, and tried to act positively about them
Actual answer might be Kessler from the first InfamousTravelled back in time so his past self wouldn't punk out of being a hero
Keep in mind Kessler also started the plague.
Abstrusity
Member
"We will carry out the new creation of destruction through the power of righteousness. Territories... peoples... authorities... all will be liberated. This is the new state "A World With No Boundaries" will create. Neither nations nor nationalities have meaning. We will erase these unnecessary borders. The World With No Boundaries will pen a new story. The world will change."
"The battle to realign the borders has moved to the meeting boardroom. Those lines will give birth to new conflict. Rising above countries and armies, our "World With No Boundaries" will become one. For the ideal. For the people. It's time for a perfect world without restrictions or wars. V2 will erase the old one."
Weltall Zero
Member
This is an extremely apt comparison, as the Saruman in the books is implied to always have acted of his own volition, while the movies leave doubt as to what extent Sauron may have influenced and corrupted him directly. And I just now realized the similarities in their names, which is probably a reference, neat!
What? Saren doesn't kill himself because of disgust at his implants, that's ridiculous. He commits suicide when he realizes how much he had been mentally altered, i.e. indoctrinated, and how his actions haven't been his own for a long time. The wiki also agrees with me:
Huh? It's neither opportunism nor selfishness, it's indoctrination. Why would you think I would abscribe any of his actions to pragmatism when I've already said his goals and motivations are overwritten with the Reapers'?
I think we simply disagree about the nature of indoctrination and how much of an effect it has on someone's volition. To me the original, non-indoctrinated Saren would have fought the Reapers to the death.
Well, precisely! An "afterthought" in the most literal sense, and the opposite of a "true motive": it was an indoctrination-induced self-rationalization for his actions, and just one of many at that. This is why I consider indoctrination so insidious; because it creates rationalizations that deflect self-analysis. Its name was not chosen at random.
Olgierd Von Everich - The Witcher 3: Hearts of Stone
A character who's backstory hid a lot more to him and turned me around slowly at what I initially thought was just a disturbingly cruel bastard.
Made Hearts of Stone one of my all time favourite DLCs/expansions.
And related:
O'Dimm for people wondering. Also great.
A character who's backstory hid a lot more to him and turned me around slowly at what I initially thought was just a disturbingly cruel bastard.
Made Hearts of Stone one of my all time favourite DLCs/expansions.
And related:
How can you not like such a jovial guy. Also had the best personal theme in a long time!
O'Dimm for people wondering. Also great.
Marlene - The Last of Us
I wanted to save Humanity rather than doom it.
Solidus Snake - Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty
I guess he wasn't technically the main villain, but he wanted the same thing Snake + Otacon wanted.
Colossi - Shadow of the Colossus
They were just guardians to the lock of the ultimate evil.
I wanted to save Humanity rather than doom it.
Solidus Snake - Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty
I guess he wasn't technically the main villain, but he wanted the same thing Snake + Otacon wanted.
Colossi - Shadow of the Colossus
They were just guardians to the lock of the ultimate evil.
RayearthRob
Member
WW ganondorf!
yep Bowser.
plus he'll play in your soccer league, hit the links, and go go karting with you! weekend warrior.
Him
Ok, he was a dictator, but he wanted only protect his people for the ones who stole their planet (Vekta) and banished Helgast on a unliveable planet only for political and economic reasons.
And in Shadow Fall they were told they can live segregate in a part of the planet that was their home from the beginning.
ISA is the true evil.
I want a game where i can control an Helgast soldier next time.
Been awhile, but I think they were initially banished for doing some horrendous shit right? It's not like ISA just cast off a peace-faring society as I recall.
Gwyn's decision to extend the First Flame become more justified when you look at the results of the Dark taking hold in New Londo and Oolacile. Spoilers: It didn't end well for anyone, gods and humans alike. Kaathe is manipulating people just as hard as Frampt.
It's weird how so many Dark Souls fans have started acting like linking the fire is evil and letting the Age of Dark happen is good when the choice is deliberately morally ambiguous. It's not about good vs evil, it's about sticking to the dwindling status quo or risking the dangerous unknown.
How can you not like such a jovial guy. Also had the best personal theme in a long time!
You're both wrong! /s
Letho gets my vote. He did some horrible things that made it easier for the events of Witcher 3 to happen but damn, I just couldn't hate him at the end.
Lux R7
Member
Gwyn only wanted the best for his family and believed in a world of light. I mean, you can agree with him or not, but to me he is not a standard "evil guy", he just made a choice. i can understand it.
That would be my choice for most sympathetic.
Owl Kuro from Ori and the Blind Forest.The forest called for its children, killing the owl's in the process. Blinded by rage, the owl seeks to kill the forest's child, Ori, in return. She succeeds at doing so, but realizes that her attempts to kill him left her nest and last remaining chick unprotected, and so she sacrifices herself to save her child in the nick of time. Ori's foster mother, who understood the owl's plight, adopts the chick and they form a new family.
Really well done, especially given that the game does it all while only using a handful of sentences throughout.
Thank you. Finally there's someone else that thinks like me.
Both sides have their pros and cons.
DAREALGUMMY
Member
Is he really even portrayed as the villain? Aside from the Followers of the Apocalypse, (and possibly the Kings) he's the only one citizens don't have a problem with entirely. NCR wants to control everything where everything is Marshall Law, Caesars Legion are murderous psychopaths without being reckless like the Fiends and the Brotherhood of Steel are hell bent on technology that they go to war just to obtain it.
Yep. People judge him too harshly.
His Majesty
Banned
In what universe is O'Dimm a sympathetic villain?
Considering the Patriots decided that endless war between PMCs was the best way for humanity to continue I would say maybe Solidus was actually on the right side of that debate.
Went about uniting Ivalice in his own direct, and more bloody way. Actually succeeds, albeit with the lowkey help of our heroes. He brings peace to the land for many centuries, and enjoys a long reign as king himself.
Honestly the fact that he and his sister were commoners kinda made his story even better. He used others to get what he wanted, but in the monarchy that's the status quo.
Just gotta say, great topic.
NoFaceNico
Member
Bubi did nothing wrong.
I think that's the bottom line then. I don't think he would have fought them to the death (from what we know about and him and his methods). I think he saw impossible odds and he saw an opportunity for himself instead, using the "they might spare some of us" as a justification.
That's not to say I don't appreciate how indoctrination works, but I don't blame it all on that.
BossDarkseid
Member
Vayne, from Final Fantasy XII, somewhat.
He wanted to free humanity and the peoples of Ivalice from the machinations of the cosmic Occuria...it's a noble goal, but his methods were heinous. Whether he wanted to by the Dynast King of Ivalice or not is sort of immaterial because...when you consider that to
he's asking for more power to smite the Occuria he seems quite driven in his goal. Also if you had to have a Dynast King and he had freed everyone I'm not sure that many people would mind, he'd be a hero.
It's like Solidus, I find him interesting because I can absolutely understand his motives and reasoning etc.
He wanted to free humanity and the peoples of Ivalice from the machinations of the cosmic Occuria...it's a noble goal, but his methods were heinous. Whether he wanted to by the Dynast King of Ivalice or not is sort of immaterial because...when you consider that to
his dying breath
It's like Solidus, I find him interesting because I can absolutely understand his motives and reasoning etc.
The villain of FFXV is an excellent candidate for this, but it feels too early to discuss that character's motivations outside of spoiler threads.
Armstrong was trying to create a world where only the strong survive. There's nothing good about that.
Whoa, no, no, no, no. Seriously, Neff?
His ultimate intentions were noble, even if his actions were horribly unjustified.
Armstrong was trying to create a world where only the strong survive. There's nothing good about that.
Neoleo2143
Member
Well he is not that much more worse than Nier himself considering he is Nier (and has been in Nier's Shoes for significantly longer than him). He's sympathetic because the player had implicitly been playing as his character the entire time of the game. And yes what he does is awful, and prompts Nier to go on a murderous rampage that is equally if not more brutal but I would say that helps equalize the two characters even further.
Hippopuncher12
Member
So many Tales mentions, but no one mentioned Duke from Vesperia.
Dude was right. You idiots were literally killing the planet, and he was all "Stop doing that you pricks".
I said him on the first page....I just didn't post a pic...I ain't got time for that shit.
Crazy Diamond
Member
Ocelot. He had the worst mid-life crisis of all time because he lost the ability to be interesting and have a personality during the events of MGSV. :3
Solidus.
Solidus.
Shifty1897
Member
Joel from The Last of Us.
theSlacker
Member
Are there any video game stories where the "doing bad shit for the greater good" kind of character actually wins and gets away with it? Or better yet you actually play as them? Not some sort of edgelord stuff, but characters who were actually right not getting beaten just because it's written that way/by the power of love. Seems that most of the stories, in video games at least, that involve that kind of character normally uses the fact that they are sympathetic to make you feel for that character while still giving the good guys an out/way to save the day without doing all the bad shit.
Delita from FFT arguably does some bad shit and is pretty ruthless but its mostly to bad people. It's all for the greater good lf Ivalice though, and he does succeed
psynergylover
Member
Joel
Yeah I said it! Come at me!!!
Yeah I said it! Come at me!!!
SargerusBR
I love Pokken!
+1 on Joel being a villain
Seven Force
Banned
I always loved the reveal that the villain duo in the first Golden Sun game weren't actually bad guys, but were in fact, saving the world. Granted, they kinda acted like dickheads, which is why they ended up being killed by Issac and co, but their intentions were noble.
If they had actually cared to explain why they were doing what they were doing in the first place, they would have likely lived.
If they had actually cared to explain why they were doing what they were doing in the first place, they would have likely lived.
GrantDaNasty
Member
Solidus was basically the Boss before MGS3.
Him dying was the only way to settle conflict "in the moment", but in the long-term, it made the player feel guilty for preserving the status-quo.
Though one difference between the two being that Raiden knew what he was doing was not "the right thing", being forced into it by the Patriots threatening Rose and her child, whereas Naked Snake only found out the truth about the Boss' mission after having done the deed.
Him dying was the only way to settle conflict "in the moment", but in the long-term, it made the player feel guilty for preserving the status-quo.
Though one difference between the two being that Raiden knew what he was doing was not "the right thing", being forced into it by the Patriots threatening Rose and her child, whereas Naked Snake only found out the truth about the Boss' mission after having done the deed.
Wind Waker Ganon is cool because he's completely broken by what happened in Ocarina and then in the flood afterwards. He had it all and got beaten by some teenage kid due to some time travel bullshit. Then he got it all again and the gods flooded the entire world. He's tired of all this bullshit, he can't be bothered with anything really evil anymore. I wouldn't say he's sympathetic though because he still did all those awful things in OoT.
It's cool to compare him to TP Ganon, whose experience of OoT was very different. He was barely concocting his evil plan and then two kids show up and convince the king to have him executed. I'd be pissed too.
It's cool to compare him to TP Ganon, whose experience of OoT was very different. He was barely concocting his evil plan and then two kids show up and convince the king to have him executed. I'd be pissed too.
Neff
Member
Well yeah, he was "batshit insane" after all. But his motives- to end governmental corruption, to end war, to give people freedom to live their lives the way they want- those ideas have merit, even if they also have their downsides.
Also the villain of FFXV is just a massive wanker, surely?
Vulcano's assistant
Banned
Fantastic, both of them. And the games actually convince people to side with them. So it's not something just happening in the mind of the player, but the game actively using it.
He also spent centuries experimenting on people in ways that would cause Umbrella's scientists to lose their lunch and nearly caused the complete genocide of the human race.
He even got what he wanted in the end, and everyone was all "well at least he's sorry about it."
Motherfucker is worse than Kefka.
Bakkus
Member
What?
Flowey/Asriel is saved in the true ending pacifist run it's actually required for you to do so to get that ending. That's basically the point of the game, that every enemy without exceptions in the game can be redeemed
Really? He's not there at the end. I thought the implication was he turns back to Flowey
Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
I just finished Final Fantasy XV and I really don't understand why you guys say
is the most sympathetic.
Ardyn
He's an untrustworthy narrator.
What we know about him is that he was a part of the Lucis Caelum line, had the power to absorb daemons, claims a "jealous" king ostracized him and caused the public to do the same thing, and would not be accepted by the gods to the afterlife.
We know the Oracle that is chosen heals people via a method that removes the blight both sanctioned by the gods and does not corrupt the Oracle. We've only seen mentions of the Oracles being women.
It's more likely through using arcane way Ardyn found a way to absorb daemons, both empowering him and corrupting him. While thinking he is doing great things for the world, it is likely this was an excuse to keep on absorbing daemons. By the time Ardyn wanted to go to the afterlife, the gods were like "no, you've been using dark magic to absorb daemons all this time. The fuck did you think was going to happen?". We have no real claim besides Ardyn that the "jealous" king, which I assume was his younger brother, was jealous or a bad person. We'd also have to believe the crystal and gods would have selected an asshole for a king. There also isn't concrete information that the "jealous" king was the first king, it is likely that this whole affair happen after the first King and Oracle were selected.
What we know about him is that he was a part of the Lucis Caelum line, had the power to absorb daemons, claims a "jealous" king ostracized him and caused the public to do the same thing, and would not be accepted by the gods to the afterlife.
We know the Oracle that is chosen heals people via a method that removes the blight both sanctioned by the gods and does not corrupt the Oracle. We've only seen mentions of the Oracles being women.
It's more likely through using arcane way Ardyn found a way to absorb daemons, both empowering him and corrupting him. While thinking he is doing great things for the world, it is likely this was an excuse to keep on absorbing daemons. By the time Ardyn wanted to go to the afterlife, the gods were like "no, you've been using dark magic to absorb daemons all this time. The fuck did you think was going to happen?". We have no real claim besides Ardyn that the "jealous" king, which I assume was his younger brother, was jealous or a bad person. We'd also have to believe the crystal and gods would have selected an asshole for a king. There also isn't concrete information that the "jealous" king was the first king, it is likely that this whole affair happen after the first King and Oracle were selected.