Wonder Woman Is a Disjointed Disaster (Says DC Insider)

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BvS > Superman > Superman 2 = Man of Steel

MOS Zod the best villain in all 4 movies though (unless you count batman as a bad guy in the latest movie. Which he kind of was framed as for the first 2 thirds)
 
BvS > Superman > Superman 2 = Man of Steel

MOS Zod the best villain in all 4 movies though (unless you count batman as a bad guy in the latest movie. Which he kind of was framed as for the first 2 thirds)

Disco is full of wrong opinions.

Smh.

I'll give him Zod, to an extent..surprise he didn't include Jor-El. That's as far as we ride though, as per the usual lol.

You thought reeves as superman was wack tho. That's about as wrong as it gets. That's the earth is flat tier opinion.

What? 😕
 
L

Lord Virgin

Unconfirmed Member
You thought reeves as superman was wack tho. That's about as wrong as it gets. That's the earth is flat tier opinion.

Tbf I'm not a big fan of Cavill either.

Or Superman for that matter.

Batgod is where it's at.
 

Famassu

Member
Yeah that's a new one.
So BvS is too masculine now?

Lame.
Toxic masculinity isn't quite the same as "too masculine", it refers to some traits that are often assosiated with men/manliness that can be more or less harmful when much of society has that mindset and how bad it is how common, accepted and/or even EXPECTED those traits are from men (by other men and sometimes women too). For example, how many men think that they need to and (maybe even worse) that it's OK to defend their honor/whatever with violence. So if someone says "fuck you, asshole!" to them or maybe their child or partner, the first and only appropriate & acceptable answer for some men is to start a fight and beat the person up. Because that's what a Man does. They don't talk, they don't ignore pathetic insults thrown at them, they don't try to de-escalate the situation to avoid fighting and just move on in their life, they "let their fists do the talking" the second someone is disrespectful of them and a lot of people would just cheer on when that happens. That is toxic masculinity.

Now, I haven't seen BvsS so I can't really say if there is toxic masculinity in it or not or what kind if there is, but comics do suffer quite a lot of toxic masculinity, much like they do of sexist portrayals of women, so it wouldn't surprise me if Battie vs Supes had some toxic masculinity problems (especially considering the director's past work, he's not exactly the model example of someone who understands gender issues).
 
WTF? I've never seen anyone prefer BvS over the 1st Superman movie, and the 2nd one!!!

BvS has its issues but I really fucked with what snyder was doing there regarding batman and superman.

Superman 1 is a big deal no doubt about that. Love that first 30 or so minutes. And you can tell it influenced the GOAT raimi spiderman movies quite a bit but the movie kind of loses me after he rescues lois.

They need to bring back Otis da gawd tho. Danny McBride in man of Steel 2. Book it.
 

Veelk

Banned
I feel I am unable to look at superman 1 as an actual movie. It's more like the primordial organism that is the forefather of any interpretation we have of superman today. Superman, of course, existed before Christopher Reeves did, but that's like saying fantasy existed before Tolkien. True, but their takes on it became so vast and dominant that I feel it's fair to say that's where our interpretation of superman truly began.

Personally, I'm not a big fan of superman 1. It doesn't inspire wonder to me because it's been replicated so much that eventually someone did it better and 2. There is a distinct lack of tension through the movie, because it's so focused on seeing superman as this wonderful, magical being.

Superman 2 is a huge improvement imo.

I won't say that superman is a worse movie than Man of Steel, because it's not. But it's a much less interesting movie to me. Not that MoS is particularly interesting, but I would rather see the modern take of superman than look back on the past.
 

BadAss2961

Member
Toxic masculinity isn't quite the same as "too masculine", it refers to some traits that are often assosiated with men/manliness that can be more or less harmful when much of society has that mindset and how bad it is how common, accepted and/or even EXPECTED those traits are from men (by other men and sometimes women too). For example, how many men think that they need to and (maybe even worse) that it's OK to defend their honor/whatever with violence. So if someone says "fuck you, asshole!" to them or maybe their child or partner, the first and only appropriate & acceptable answer for some men is to start a fight and beat the person up. Because that's what a Man does. They don't talk, they don't ignore pathetic insults thrown at them, they don't try to de-escalate the situation to avoid fighting and just move on in their life, they "let their fists do the talking" the second someone is disrespectful of them and a lot of people would just cheer on when that happens. That is toxic masculinity.

Now, I haven't seen BvsS so I can't really say if there is toxic masculinity in it or not or what kind if there is, but comics do suffer quite a lot of toxic masculinity, much like they do of sexist portrayals of women, so it wouldn't surprise me if Battie vs Supes had some toxic masculinity problems (especially considering the director's past work, he's not exactly the model example of someone who understands gender issues).
I knew exactly what they were getting at when the argument was made, and it's still lame. BvS isn't an overly macho movie; and even it was a little bit, who cares?

With this being the first time i've seen it brought up, i'll chalk it up to dudes being inspired by today's protests and lumping their disapproval of BvS with everything that's wrong with the world.
 

Veelk

Banned
I knew exactly what they were getting at when the argument was made, and it's still lame. BvS isn't an overly macho movie; and even it was a little bit, who cares?

With this being the first time i've seen it brought up, i'll chalk it up to dudes being inspired by today's protests and lumping their disapproval of BvS with everything that's wrong with the world.

That is nothing resembling to the argument I made, and if you don't care, don't comment. There's nothing I can do with the argument of "It isn't, and if it is, it doesn't matter". It's not a counterpoint or a refutation. It's literally nothing. I'm not particularly eager to talk about this point (Partially because I'm tired of actually discussing BvS as if it's still relevant except as a bar for Wonder Woman to clear, partially because I only have a loose grip on toxic masculinity myself), but I will if you're actually interested in a discussion on this. But this isn't indicating interest, just denial.

And for the record, I mentioned this general complaint as far back as the first week the movie was out once I saw it. I just didn't emphasize it, though I do recall some people agreeing with the idea of it. But whether you do or do not see Batman and Superman's refusal to talk to one another as a sign of toxic masculinity, it's still a problem of the narrative. But I'm pretty sure I can dig up the post if you want to see.
 
BvS has its issues but I really fucked with what snyder was doing there regarding batman and superman.

Superman 1 is a big deal no doubt about that. Love that first 30 or so minutes. And you can tell it influenced the GOAT raimi spiderman movies quite a bit but the movie kind of loses me after he rescues lois.

They need to bring back Otis da gawd tho. Danny McBride in man of Steel 2. Book it.

Nigga, you're killing me..but I'll be damned if that's not some inspired casting lol. I'm with you 100%, as long as he provides some lighthearted shit.
 

DrSlek

Member
The time reversal in Superman 1 is total and complete bullshit.
Reeves still the best Clark/Supes, though.
I was thinking about it the other day, and it's not as bullshit as you might think. I think he's doing a Flash. Going FTL to go back in time. It just happened that he was going around the planet while he did so.
 

Veelk

Banned
I was thinking about it the other day, and it's not as bullshit as you might think. I think he's doing a Flash. Going FTL to go back in time. It just happened that he was going around the planet while he did so.

Everything about Flash's powers is bullshit though. Like, to the point where it's a meme. If Superman is pulling a Flash, he's bullshitting.
 

Veelk

Banned
Yes..yes it is..

I feel sometimes like I'm the only one who thinks that's not how it should be, atleast in superhero adaptations. Like, if you pulled bullshit in a book series of some kind, it'd be considered a weakpoint of the story by most of the audience.

I mean, I understand why it happens. Especially in comics. The writers keep changing, so any rules that one writer sets down will inevitably interfere with the story that another writer wants. Besides that, all writers are just not equal in terms of skill and meticulousness in regards to worldbuilding. So setting too many concrete rules is just a matter of waiting for someone else to break them, either because they have to or because they are careless. With comics, it's a necessity.

But I think once you step outside of comics and you have your own alternative universe, the rules should be more strict. There should be an idea of what the speed force actually is. There should be an idea of what the Flash can and can't do. And, if at all possible, I usually prefer for them to be grounded in something resembling reality.

You know, in Avengers 1, when the scientist that Loki put under mind control was explaining the wormhole, he wasn't just using technobabble. He was using actual scientific terms, and in the correct meaning too, to explain a little about the device they were using and why it could do what it does. It went over most people's heads, including mine until I looked it up, but it adds a little something to the story when writers don't just bullshit the audience. It shows that work is being done to make something impossible be believable.
 

BadAss2961

Member
That is nothing resembling to the argument I made, and if you don't care, don't comment. There's nothing I can do with the argument of "It isn't, and if it is, it doesn't matter". It's not a counterpoint or a refutation. It's literally nothing. I'm not particularly eager to talk about this point (Partially because I'm tired of actually discussing BvS as if it's still relevant except as a bar for Wonder Woman to clear, partially because I only have a loose grip on toxic masculinity myself), but I will if you're actually interested in a discussion on this. But this isn't indicating interest, just denial.

And for the record, I mentioned this general complaint as far back as the first week the movie was out once I saw it. I just didn't emphasize it, though I do recall some people agreeing with the idea of it. But whether you do or do not see Batman and Superman's refusal to talk to one another as a sign of toxic masculinity, it's still a problem of the narrative. But I'm pretty sure I can dig up the post if you want to see.
I don't want to see. You can have this one since you're right in that I have no interest in arguing it beyond calling it lame and moving on.
 

Ushay

Member
Suicide Squad is supposed to be a fun little side project in the vain of Marvel movies. it's not meant to be taken seriously. you watch it once, laugh a few times and forget about it. the theater i was in loved it. and i gotta admit it was infectious and i loved it too. i noticed a lot of problems on my second viewing but it did what it set out to do. Make a funny, action packed blockbuster and they succeeded.

What ended up happening is that all the critics and fans decided to treat this like a fucking oscar contender and absolutely ravaged it. we care about editing and narrative flow in our comic book movies now? we care about villains in our movies now? where was this outrage where iron man 2 and thor 2 ended up in the 70s on rotten tomatoes? even Star Wars Episode 3 is in the 70s. and that movie is fucking trash.

there is this double standard that seems to be hitting DC movies. it started with Man of Steel which was a perfectly fine comic book movie. it sat at a 56% of rotten tomatoes and the internet was brutal with its memes and treating it like a piece of shit movie while completely ignoring problems with how formulaic and forgettable marvel movies had become. i didnt care because i still had a few laughs and liked the visuals in marvel movies, but now i am like why am i giving these movies a break when others arent willing to do with D.C movies?

In no universe, do BvS and SS belong in the 20s. I dont care how rottentomatoes measures their reviews but that is simply absurd. i refuse to believe that over 70% of the critics thought they were rotten and over 70% of the same critics thought IM2,IM3, Thor 2 were fresh.

A breath of fresh air, thank you.
 

J_Viper

Member
The thing with the first Superman is that Reeve is so fucking incredible, you don't notice how lame the rest of the movie is

MoS is the best Supes film, but that's a looooow bar
 

Compbros

Member
The thing with the first Superman is that Reeve is so fucking incredible, you don't notice how lame the rest of the movie is

MoS is the best Supes film, but that's a looooow bar

As a Superman film Returns is vastly superior to MoS, it's just boring as all hell.
 
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