Skellig Gra
Member
Sounds like a great title for a new thread
The stigma attached to attending public school
- Thread starter Clay Davis
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CarpeDeezNutz
Member
Did not expect that...
capitalCORN
Member
Do we have to bring up rothicism again?
I go to a University where nearly a third of students were privately educated. Personally, I come from an almost cliché situation: single mum, no money, dad never around. I think statistically 28% of my Uni's students were privately educated; conversely less than 1% are from the same socioeconomic background as me (judged by whether or not the student received free school meals growing up).
I sometimes find my friends who went to public schools a little lost in their privilege and it's reflected on their attitudes to life. Not that they're not nice people, but even the progressive ones are more champagne socialist than anything, and I find the ideals they latch onto (things like veganism, equality on British film, etc.) very superfluous as someone who actually grew up in genuine hardship. They don't get it, and this is a problem faced by much of the so-called liberal elite in this country.
But I don't look down on them unless they look down on me (it's happened). Then I have to remind them that I got to the same Uni without tens of thousands being spent on my schooling every year, while working from the age of 13 to help my mum with groceries and bills.
Not their fault for having ill preconceptions I guess. It's the fault of institutions; I'm very much an exception to the rule of social class and wealth still having a huge impact on the trajectory your life will take. Too many of my friends and peers from my school are drifting through life, listless. They were let down by the system. I suppose the good thing is that it really motivates me, I have more ambition than pretty much anyone I know here.
I sometimes find my friends who went to public schools a little lost in their privilege and it's reflected on their attitudes to life. Not that they're not nice people, but even the progressive ones are more champagne socialist than anything, and I find the ideals they latch onto (things like veganism, equality on British film, etc.) very superfluous as someone who actually grew up in genuine hardship. They don't get it, and this is a problem faced by much of the so-called liberal elite in this country.
But I don't look down on them unless they look down on me (it's happened). Then I have to remind them that I got to the same Uni without tens of thousands being spent on my schooling every year, while working from the age of 13 to help my mum with groceries and bills.
Not their fault for having ill preconceptions I guess. It's the fault of institutions; I'm very much an exception to the rule of social class and wealth still having a huge impact on the trajectory your life will take. Too many of my friends and peers from my school are drifting through life, listless. They were let down by the system. I suppose the good thing is that it really motivates me, I have more ambition than pretty much anyone I know here.
incregularily as always
mhayes86
Member
The OP makes sense now.
OP, tell them to lighten up. Maybe you grew up in a wealthier family, but there's no need for them to be so hostile, even if they're joking, constantly bringing it up gets old fast.
You don't brag about a privileged upbringing or anything do you? That can also get annoying (I have a friend that does this).
CarpeDeezNutz
Member
Bullfrogs? I would have called them chazwazzers!
Holy Order Sol
Member
bruh
hurricanes
Member
I don't really understand the "rich kidz" stigma. I attended both state run and private schools (that has entrance exams)before college, the most important thing is still study hard and have social/work experience instead of wasting time on partying and drinking. I know many state school kids going to good colleges and private kids failed and V.V. Private schools do have advantages but it's hardly world changing experience that suddenly give you a smarter brain and straight As in class. Those elite limo riding kids from movies aren't even the slightly realistic portrait of the private school kids I know of. Most of them are from upper middle class family or less well off family but got an scholarship. If anything, kids from my private schools take school more seriously in general compare to kids from my state school.
I guess my experience does not speak for all. But it doesn't change the fact that some GAFers immediate hate for the slightly fortunate is appalling.
I guess my experience does not speak for all. But it doesn't change the fact that some GAFers immediate hate for the slightly fortunate is appalling.
Tell me more.
I find it funny that some parts of the Harry Potter series that people find atypical people from the uk find common. Stuff like school uniform and being sorted into classes with meaningful names. We didn't have a sorting hat but we could be organised into certain sets of classes based on academic ability or randomness.
You don't know what you're talking about. Public school pupils all but control the UK.
How do you go from private school to grammar school to doing BTECs? I knew people that thought if you got less than As having attended a private school you were an idiot.
backflip10019
Member
Now I'm convinced you guys deserved Brexit.
The educational divide in the UK is a bit different than what one might find in the US. For one thing it's essentially another tool for the reinforcement of the class system and ensures that the people groomed to occupy the highest echelons of power in the UK have little to no meaningful contact with "plebs" during their formative years.
I went to private school from K-12, but I really wish my family would have put that money to better use by improving their home or moving to a "good" public school district and having a higher quality of life. I made life long friends, but in the end it wasn't worth it and they only cater to the 1% within the school. Those of us who had families who struggled to place us there were frequently ignored.
hurricanes
Member
The 1%, or really the .1% control everything, but they aren't representatives of an average private school kid.
If that's the case, its a bit more understandabe.
OP's friends are still jerks though.
Snarfington
Member
They're major assholes and there's definitely a stigma which I'm very guilty of buying into and ribbing people with a little bit. But it sounds like they far exceeded that; they latched onto it and found it utterly hilarious that your parents paid for you to go to a good school which is just sad for them, really.
You do you.
You do you.
TheOnlyOneHeEverFeared
Member
One, its different in the UK. Two, said by the privileged person who went to private school, get the fuck out of here.
Clay Davis
Member
I'd like to clear up a few things people have assumed about me and hopefully shed some more light on why I was upset by what happened.
I am not a "rich kid" by any stretch of the imagination. I work extremely hard for the things I have, I have never had anything handed to me on a platter nor did I grow up in a life of privilege. My parents worked even harder to reach a point in life where they could send me the school they thought would afford me the best opportunities in life.
I attended a state primary school, the decision to attend a more academically driven secondary school was taken by my parents because they wanted me to have the best opportunities I could have in adult life.
They struggled throughout my time there. I don't mean to suggest they were on the poverty line, but they did struggle with the costs and I know they made a lot of sacrifices to give me that opportunity. It's why I don't appreciate people making fun of my attending that school, my parents made a choice and it's one they weighed up against a lot of others before deciding to sacrifice a lot themselves.
I didn't grow up in an spoiled or elitist bubble either. If anything, I'd say we're very middle class, maybe, just maybe in touching distance of upper middle class and that's being generous.
Posting statistics about what the majority of those who attend public school achieve in life doesn't necessarily mean everyone who attends one will aim for the same heights or positions of power. I have never looked down on anyone and nor would I ever do so, it's not something I was taught, in school, at home or in my social circles. Life is hard enough without making it difficult for others because they weren't born into as good an environment as someone else. We're all hostage to environments that aren't of our making when we're born, why would it acceptable to judge someone who was born into poverty any more than it would be to hate someone who was born into better circumstances.
I apologise for the ranting nature of my post, I don't mean to offend anyone but it's frustrating to have the same viewpoints and opinions repeated by people who assume they know about my upbringing, just because I attended a certain type of school.
I am not a "rich kid" by any stretch of the imagination. I work extremely hard for the things I have, I have never had anything handed to me on a platter nor did I grow up in a life of privilege. My parents worked even harder to reach a point in life where they could send me the school they thought would afford me the best opportunities in life.
I attended a state primary school, the decision to attend a more academically driven secondary school was taken by my parents because they wanted me to have the best opportunities I could have in adult life.
They struggled throughout my time there. I don't mean to suggest they were on the poverty line, but they did struggle with the costs and I know they made a lot of sacrifices to give me that opportunity. It's why I don't appreciate people making fun of my attending that school, my parents made a choice and it's one they weighed up against a lot of others before deciding to sacrifice a lot themselves.
I didn't grow up in an spoiled or elitist bubble either. If anything, I'd say we're very middle class, maybe, just maybe in touching distance of upper middle class and that's being generous.
Posting statistics about what the majority of those who attend public school achieve in life doesn't necessarily mean everyone who attends one will aim for the same heights or positions of power. I have never looked down on anyone and nor would I ever do so, it's not something I was taught, in school, at home or in my social circles. Life is hard enough without making it difficult for others because they weren't born into as good an environment as someone else. We're all hostage to environments that aren't of our making when we're born, why would it acceptable to judge someone who was born into poverty any more than it would be to hate someone who was born into better circumstances.
I apologise for the ranting nature of my post, I don't mean to offend anyone but it's frustrating to have the same viewpoints and opinions repeated by people who assume they know about my upbringing, just because I attended a certain type of school.
The thing I love about these threads is how the phrase " the British and Americans are too people seperated by a common language" is so true. I can only imagine how much people are missing when people refer to the north, Surrey, Bullingdon club and comprehensive education. So to clear everything up
Public school: the poshest of the posh private schools. Eton, Harrow, St Pauls, Dulwhich Colllege etc. Think blue-blooded Tory types. Bullingdon club types.
Independent schools: basically private schools
Private schools
Comprehensive: any dickhead can get in
Grammar: academic ability is a prerequisite upon admission.
Joe Shlabotnik
Banned
Just returning the favor for all the fascinating international insights into US politics over the last year
Edit: and tipping
hurricanes
Member
1. I said it may be different for others.
2.You get the fuck out here with "you private school kids must be so privileged" attitude.
Head of Vengarl
Banned
Well I learned something today at least. Calling private school public school... wtf.
Sounds like they touched a nerve. I'm not sure what advice anyone in here can give you, aside from agreeing that those people were being assholes. Some people are just really fucking bitter about stuff like that. I've had friends and an ex-girlfriend guilt trip the shit out of me because I grew up in an upper middle class family and they didn't. At some point you just realize you have nothing to apologize for, and that they're just talking shit.
Hope things are going well with the new gf, OP.
Sounds like they touched a nerve. I'm not sure what advice anyone in here can give you, aside from agreeing that those people were being assholes. Some people are just really fucking bitter about stuff like that. I've had friends and an ex-girlfriend guilt trip the shit out of me because I grew up in an upper middle class family and they didn't. At some point you just realize you have nothing to apologize for, and that they're just talking shit.
Hope things are going well with the new gf, OP.
CarpeDeezNutz
Member
I can't read this with all my freedoms.
George Oscar Bluth II
Banned
They went too far with their hostility towards you but I think it's understandable. The system is so fucked here and I guess you going to public school (which was it? Eton? Harrow? Winchester?) gave them an outlet to show some anger at the system.
I really do hate how a lot of public schools give you a leg up just by having attended and getting some friends in high places. Lord knows how many people in powerful positions got there just because of their school friends.
I wouldn't take it too personally, OP. I think you'll understand why they acted in such a way (though I still think it's wrong).
I'm just glad I didn't go to public school like my mother wanted me to. Father was against it and so was I LOL.
I really do hate how a lot of public schools give you a leg up just by having attended and getting some friends in high places. Lord knows how many people in powerful positions got there just because of their school friends.
I wouldn't take it too personally, OP. I think you'll understand why they acted in such a way (though I still think it's wrong).
I'm just glad I didn't go to public school like my mother wanted me to. Father was against it and so was I LOL.
JonnyDBrit
Member
Somewhat suspected as much. The thing is that the perception tends to be based on those who readily afford private education, and for whom the parents would have never considered state education acceptable. Hence the people at that dinner also presumed that the money to afford a private education must also be readily available to pay for the meal, rather than it having been a specialised instance where your family spent more than they normally would in the hopes of your future prosperity.
Context and circumstance matters, yours is different from what they expected; they're asses.
homeworkfilms
Member
This is all fine and certainly might make your particular social situation slightly different but on a broader scale you still occupy near the top of the socio-economic ladder globally. You are very very lucky in many ways even if that also took some additional work on your or your family's part. What matters often is the access to opportunity. Even having the option to go to public school is what others might react to even if it is expressed in not so nice ways. But since you will very likely never be without it is best to think about those who struggle more than your own hurt feelings about having access to opportunities that will give you a comfortable and meaningful life.
LegendofJoe
Member
This is unfortunate in so many ways. I'm lucky enough to live in an area with excellent free or state run schools so I plan to take advantage of that. I'm paying an obscene amount of money to send my kids to the best preschool though. I hope that combined with hopefully being able to afford to send them to an academy when they reach high school will be enough to give them more social mobility that I had. I need those middle years to pay off debt and to be able to afford to educate them further when they're older.
Glendemonium
Member
Sounds like petty jealousy OP, they feel ashamed and gave you crap to compensate for their own insecurity. And of course "pack mentality" kicked in.
Sorry you had to go through that.
Sorry you had to go through that.
haha
always crazy bacon
Banned
I'd like to hear exactly what struggles your parents had, where you lived, how many kids in the family and what jobs they did. What decade did you grow up in? Struggle is relative.
Lol, that explains it. I figured he was talking about private school but I didn't know that the UK switch the meaning. Why is that?
bennywhatever
Member
I went to a private Catholic school, wife went to public school, my best friend went to a charter school, her best friend was home schooled. We joke all the time using stereotypes about our education, but never this serious... they were digging on you and that's not cool.
Also, it probably wasn't even your choice to attend the school, right? When I think of those all-boys private (public in UK), I think of Dead Poet's Society where the kids don't really have much choice in their education path.
Also, it probably wasn't even your choice to attend the school, right? When I think of those all-boys private (public in UK), I think of Dead Poet's Society where the kids don't really have much choice in their education path.
EchoChamber
Member
Fish n' chips English hurts my brain.
Billy_Pilgrim
Member
Public schools and private schools should be abolished. They're networking clubs for wealthy parents and one of the chief obstacles to reducing inequality and nepotism in our professional industries.
It's not your fault that you went there and I'm sure you benefited greatly, but they're a social evil.
It's not your fault that you went there and I'm sure you benefited greatly, but they're a social evil.
Hari Seldon
Member
One of my favorite youtubers gives a tour of his Public School and talks about it. Explains it a little bit for the non-Brits haha. It looks posh as fuck. I can see why there is a stigma.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBOlVTSiOEs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBOlVTSiOEs
Not entirely.
There's really two tiers of private school, "Independent School" and "Public School". Most private schools are the former, with the later being the likes of Eton, Harrow, Rugby and whatnot.
I went to an Independent School. Friends used to like winding me up by referring to me as a public schoolboy.
archangelmorph
Gold Member
Just for the benefit of others:
In the UK we have schools delineated into the following categories:
Comprehensive/State schools - these are the equivalent of "public" schools in other countries. Free schools paid for by the state, where quality standards are geographically variable. They do all follow a national curriculum though.
Grammar schools - basically "free" private schools that require kids to pass exams to get into. the Labour Party has been trying to destroy them for years and the quality is generally very good. They do not follow the national curriculum and thus the quality of education is more highly optimised towards excellence.
Private schools - same as the above but parents pay through the nose to put their kids through them.
Public schools - typically the reserve of the kids of the rich, celebrities, royals and those with aristocratic lineage (dukes, barons, earls etc).
---
Aside from the fact that your friends are utter dicks (find new/real friends bro), is it really that surprising that some people don't hold the same regard for the value of education as you do?
You should read more about UK history, and how Thatcher's war against the labour unions basically created a social rift between the wealthy and powerful in this country and those without. The ramifications being the sentimental shift for much of the population, away from aspirations of social mobility, due to the increased perceptions of hostility towards the educated and and wealthy classes of society. This problem was never really solved and a lot of these sentiments run directly into the divisions we see today with Brexit etc.
But I don't even think this is part of the problem with your friends either.
Generally speaking, you don't get into public school unless not only are your parents are well-to-do, but also whether you live in the relevant catchment areas, many of which are insanely expensive for most people to afford to live there. Maybe your family's been resident in a qualifying area for a very long time, i.e. before globalisation, immigration and population growth pushed up the value of the UK property market to astronomical levels over the past 30 years?
Either way I think it's useful to acknowledge at least a certain amount of privilege having the luxury to have attended one of the most prestigious school-groups in the country.
Still doesn't justify the shit your friends were throwing at you around the dinner table though.
My advice to you; consider expanding your social circle a little wider. Ethnic migrants, whether 1st, 2nd or greater generational, are great friends to have since they don't bring with them the same cultural baggage when it comes to attitudes towards education, and for many actively value it more than you probably do, given that their families were entirely willing to sacrifice leaving their homes, families and people back home to prioritise it for their kids. You'd probably fit in quite well among people like that, of an equivalent social class to yourself (in terms of education level and professional experience).
Chin up mate and stiff upper lip as they say...
In the UK we have schools delineated into the following categories:
Comprehensive/State schools - these are the equivalent of "public" schools in other countries. Free schools paid for by the state, where quality standards are geographically variable. They do all follow a national curriculum though.
Grammar schools - basically "free" private schools that require kids to pass exams to get into. the Labour Party has been trying to destroy them for years and the quality is generally very good. They do not follow the national curriculum and thus the quality of education is more highly optimised towards excellence.
Private schools - same as the above but parents pay through the nose to put their kids through them.
Public schools - typically the reserve of the kids of the rich, celebrities, royals and those with aristocratic lineage (dukes, barons, earls etc).
---
Aside from the fact that your friends are utter dicks (find new/real friends bro), is it really that surprising that some people don't hold the same regard for the value of education as you do?
You should read more about UK history, and how Thatcher's war against the labour unions basically created a social rift between the wealthy and powerful in this country and those without. The ramifications being the sentimental shift for much of the population, away from aspirations of social mobility, due to the increased perceptions of hostility towards the educated and and wealthy classes of society. This problem was never really solved and a lot of these sentiments run directly into the divisions we see today with Brexit etc.
But I don't even think this is part of the problem with your friends either.
Generally speaking, you don't get into public school unless not only are your parents are well-to-do, but also whether you live in the relevant catchment areas, many of which are insanely expensive for most people to afford to live there. Maybe your family's been resident in a qualifying area for a very long time, i.e. before globalisation, immigration and population growth pushed up the value of the UK property market to astronomical levels over the past 30 years?
Either way I think it's useful to acknowledge at least a certain amount of privilege having the luxury to have attended one of the most prestigious school-groups in the country.
Still doesn't justify the shit your friends were throwing at you around the dinner table though.
My advice to you; consider expanding your social circle a little wider. Ethnic migrants, whether 1st, 2nd or greater generational, are great friends to have since they don't bring with them the same cultural baggage when it comes to attitudes towards education, and for many actively value it more than you probably do, given that their families were entirely willing to sacrifice leaving their homes, families and people back home to prioritise it for their kids. You'd probably fit in quite well among people like that, of an equivalent social class to yourself (in terms of education level and professional experience).
Chin up mate and stiff upper lip as they say...
I'm from South America, I went to a private school in the richest neighborhood of my country.
My last work was in a company where 90% of my coworkers went to state schools.
Many of them have prejudices against rich people, they think they are all snobs and obnoxious. For example, they think that because rich people have babysitters, they don't care about raising their children. Sometimes they talked pejoratively about people being born in "golden cribs".
That prejudices obviously translate to anyone who went to a private school, doesn't matter if you are rich or not, it's all the same to them.
lol
EDIT:
Most private schools on my country aren't elitist, they are just normal schools that have better services. They are not like boarding schools.
My last work was in a company where 90% of my coworkers went to state schools.
Many of them have prejudices against rich people, they think they are all snobs and obnoxious. For example, they think that because rich people have babysitters, they don't care about raising their children. Sometimes they talked pejoratively about people being born in "golden cribs".
That prejudices obviously translate to anyone who went to a private school, doesn't matter if you are rich or not, it's all the same to them.
lol
EDIT:
Most private schools on my country aren't elitist, they are just normal schools that have better services. They are not like boarding schools.
Perfect Blue
Banned
Wow, the struggle is truly real lol
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