Support NeoGAF

[civilstrife]

The obvious question becomes why did he chose that phrase? There are any number of stupid or horrible things he could have asked them to write, why was it that one, where did it come from?

Exactly. Why do Jewish people have to be the target? Because there exists a history of institutionalized and violent antisemitism and he thought it would be funny to exploit that.

He didn't have them write "death to all Swedes." Or "death to all Youtubers". He chose Jewish people as a target because he thought it'd be funnier that way. He thought it'd be funnier to chose a people who have suffered from atrocities and about whom a growing number of young men are becoming radicalized to hate. The dude may or may not be anti Semitic, but he sure doesn't have a single working brain cell in his head.

 

[Vinnk]

It's not PewDiePie's job to be a parent.

Very true. It is the parents job to keep their kids from watching garbage. And it is the sponsors job maximize revenue. It is not their job to be able to "take a joke".

Again, PewDiePie can say whatever he wants. Free speech and all that. He just shouldn't expect to get paid for it when his sponsors don't feel that it is in line with the messages they want to be sending.

 

[Fliesen]

But would you say the same if he put up a sign saying the N word? No. Because some things are just not acceptable in society, anti semitism is one of them.

how he even thought it was ok to joke about is ridiculous, thats if he was joking, there are other signs these are his beliefs in some form.

this is exactly the problem here. i agree. I guarantee you, PewDiePie wouldn't have uploaded a video that had them hold up "Hang the N*****s" or some racist shit like that.

The fact that "lol holocaust" has already become this kind of edgy meme, is the main issue here. And him using that meme (even in a """""joke""""") is not making things any better, especially given his huge audience / influence.

 

[Bastables]

WSJ and Forbes went too far about it.

WSJ posted a video cutting all context and everything and just showing the parts of "nazi" of a PDP video without any other explanation than "HE'S ANTI SEMITIST LOOK". When in reality it was part of a "I'm not racist video" where he makes fun of the media for calling him a Facist.

Forbes just did shit explaining when the real context tells another story. There's a post that shows Forbes story and how they half-assed it to get clicks without explaining why Pewds did that or the context.

wut,
WSJ head line is accurate : Disney Severs Ties With YouTube Star PewDiePie After Anti-Semitic Posts
WSJ video shows all the joke "posts" that pewds made, including context by text over the video : On january 17 after some reports criticized the hateful message, pewdiepie fired back at the media for mischaracterizing him.

Where did WSJ flash "HE'S ANTI SEMITIST LOOK"? Did not happen, stop hypocritically blithering about mischaracterization by mischartisation of the messenger.

 

[depths20XX]

But would you say the same if he put up a sign saying the N word? No. Because some things are just not acceptable in society, anti semitism is one of them.

how he even thought it was ok to joke about is ridiculous, thats if he was joking, there are other signs these are his beliefs in some form.

If he had the message saying, "Kill all unborn babies" I'd still feel the same way. He could throw the n word in there too if he chose to. The point would still be that he wanted to see if someone would post a terrible message for money. Do I personally find it funny? No. I just find it disingenuous to label him as an antisemite. It was a shit joke.

 

[Mahonay]

this is exactly the problem here. i agree. I guarantee you, PewDiePie wouldn't have uploaded a video that had them hold up "Hang the N*****s" or some racist shit like that.

The fact that "lol holocaust" has already become this kind of edgy meme, is the main issue here. And him using that meme (even in a """""joke""""") is not making things any better, especially given his huge audience / influence.

Right here is my primary issue. It was directly adding to an already bad (and worrying) trend.

 

[JayBabay]

Should have stuck to games.

 

[Matt]

If he had the message saying, "Kill all unborn babies" I'd still feel the same way. He could throw the n word in there too if he chose to. The point would still be that he wanted to see if someone would post a terrible message for money. Do I personally find it funny? No. I just find it disingenuous to label him as an antisemite. It was a shit joke.

But...he's doing the same thing. He's spreading that hateful message...for money. He paid people to communicate a hateful thing, to then monetize that action.

So, where is the joke?

 

[Van Bur3n]

A lot of important bridges being burned here. It seem this is not boding well for our PewDiePie.

 

[depths20XX]

But...he's doing the same thing. He's spreading that hateful message...for money. He paid people to communicate a hateful thing, to then monetize that action.

So, where is the joke?

He isn't behind that message though. He stupidly picked a try hard offensive thing and wanted to see if someone would repeat it. That's the part you're missing. Was it stupid? Yes. Was it unfunny, to me and many others, yes. He wasn't communicating it in a way of, "hey guys, let's kill jews". He's just not funny. He apologized and it was later dug up on him. He made a mistake.

 

[Nanashrew]

I dunno, going by Twitter, I don't think the dig at Keemstar actually phased Keemstar. Keemstar is a racist himself, and is coming to the defense of PDP over the anti-semitic joke and saying how jokes are not to be taken seriously at all. He's even telling all his followers to boycott Disney.

Take that as you will.

 

[Matt]

He isn't behind that message though. He stupidly picked a try hard offensive thing and wanted to see if someone would repeat it. That's the part you're missing. Was it stupid? Yes. Was it unfunny, to me and many others, yes. He wasn't communicating it in a way of, "hey guys, let's kill jews". He's just not funny. He apologized and it was later dug up on him. He made a mistake.

I'm not missing anything. I just find this argument disingenuous. He wasn't trying to communicate a hateful message, he was just doing it for entertainment? You mean, the entertainment that gets him paid? So, he was doing the exact same thing as the Fiverr people he was mocking. Spreading hateful messages for money.

Odd way to make a point. "Look at these people, they will do anything for money, just like me!"

 

[Messofanego]

People learn from media yes, but media isn't the sole determining factor in human behavior. Can you honestly say a single tv show defined your reality and view of the entire world and your life? That's absurd.

South Park didn't make people racist. That seed was already planted, by a parent or someone of close influence.

People get their worldviews single-handedly defined by TV news and radio. Especially older people who just watch TV all day long. Heck, there's a whole documentary about this phenomenon about media radicalising people to become extreme conservatives going all the way to the Nixon administration, The Brainwashing Of My Dad.

 

[Fliesen]

I'm not missing anything. I just find this argument disingenuous. He wasn't trying to communicate a hateful message, he was just doing it for entertainment? You mean, the entertainment that gets him paid? So, he was doing the exact same thing as the Fiverr people he was mocking. Spreading hateful messages for money.

Odd way to make a point. "Look at the people, they will do the same thing I am doing for the same reason!"

or just, you know ... blur out / bleep out the message.

the "oh my god, i can't believe they'd really say something so abhorrent" aspect would have been preserved, yet the message itself wouldn't have been propagated / meme-ified further. It wasn't a live video - he would have had any time in the world to add some actual nuance to his 'commentary on what people do for money'

 

[Vinnk]

I think less than 1% of the people posting in this thread really think he is a Nazi or anti-semite or whatever. And most of the ones who are posting that are trolling. There might be a couple of people in this thread that are making that case in earnest but they are clearly the minority.

But I keep seeing this strawman again and again.

Most people who are being critical of PdP are not doing so because they actually believe that he is a racist.

 

[mabec]

This is a PR stunt, watch him make a deal with Youporn in a few weeks

 

[-Mutsukki-]

I'm not missing anything. I just find this argument disingenuous. He wasn't trying to communicate a hateful message, he was just doing it for entertainment? You mean, the entertainment that gets him paid? So, he was doing the exact same thing as the Fiverr people he was mocking. Spreading hateful messages for money.

Odd way to make a point. "Look at these people, they will do anything for money, just like me!"

I don't think he was mocking them. Would you appeal to restore the probable livelihood of someone you were mocking?

I dunno, going by Twitter, I don't think the dig at him phased him. Keemstar is a racist himself, and is coming to the defense of PDP over the anti-semitic joke and saying how jokes are not to be taken seriously at all. He's even telling all his followers to boycott Disney.

Take that as you will.

Guy has yet to tweet something significant after all of this. Last tweet was on the 13th and before these articles began to roll. I think it's pretty clear it phased him if anything

Also fuck Keemstar, your enemy's enemy is not your friend

 

[depths20XX]

I'm not missing anything. I just find this argument disingenuous. He wasn't trying to communicate a hateful message, he was just doing it for entertainment? You mean, the entertainment that gets him paid? So, he was doing the exact same thing as the Fiverr people he was mocking. Spreading hateful messages for money.

Odd way to make a point. "Look at these people, they will do anything for money, just like me!"

So your argument is still that he is actually an antisemite and didn't just make a dumbass mistake? I'm not sure what you're arguing here.

 

[Joey Ravn]

Well nobody expects giant corporations to have a sense of humour.

Then you are saying that you think that the "joke" was "funny". Am I reading your words correctly?

 

[Nanashrew]

I don't think he was mocking them. Would you appeal to restore the probable livelihood of someone you were mocking?



Guy has yet to tweet something significant after all of this. Last tweet was on the 13th and before these articles began to roll. I think it's pretty clear it phased him if anything

Also fuck Keemstar, your enemy's enemy is not your friend

Oh wait, lemme edit my post. I meant the digs at Keemstar by PDP don't phase Keemstar. He seems to laugh them off. But he's upset now because of the news of what Disney and YouTube did.

 

[Matt]

I don't think he was mocking them. Would you appeal to restore the probable livelihood of someone you were mocking?

Of course he was mocking them, what else would you call using them in an experiment to see if he could pay people to say horrible things?

If he tried to help them afterwards, that really is neither here nor there. Using someone as a prop in your joke doesn't mean you feel malice towards them.

 

[Bastables]

So your argument is still that he is actually an antisemite and didn't just make a dumbass mistake? I'm not sure what you're arguing here.

Where does Matt say he's an anti semite? Or is that just what you're trying to strawman.

 

[Matt]

So your argument is still that he is actually an antisemite and didn't just make a dumbass mistake? I'm not sure what you're arguing here.

No, my argument is that your statements, and his actions (even going by a charitable reading of them) lack internal logic or any actual sense of satire or social awareness.

 

[-Mutsukki-]

Oh wait, lemme edit my post. I meant the digs at Keemstar by PDP don't phase Keemstar. He seems to laugh them off. But he's upset now because of the news of what Disney and YouTube did.

Ooh, that makes more sense. Still, I'll still go with my original assertion that Keemstar is an idiot.

Of course he was mocking them, what else would you call using them in an experiment to see if he could pay people to say horrible things?

If he tried to help them afterwards, that really is neither here nor there. Using someone as a prop in your joke doesn't mean you feel malice towards them.

Hmm. Fair enough.

 

[depths20XX]

Where does Matt say he's an anti semite? Or is that just what you're trying to strawman.

"He wasn't trying to communicate a hateful message" he says, in a sarcastic manner.

What hateful message was PDP going for here?

He straight up says that he's spreading hate.

 

[Vinnk]

I don't think he was mocking them. Would you appeal to restore the probable livelihood of someone you were mocking?

I don't think so. He seemed to genuinely care that he got those guys in trouble.

But that makes the question even stronger. Who was the subject of the "satire" in the video.

If it's not making fun of Jewish people?
If it's not making fun of people who will do anything for money?
If it's not making fun of Nazi's (I'm sure he hates nazis but there was no direct jab at them)

Is it Keemster he's poking fun of? Seems a very roundabout way to do it.

What is the intended point of this?

If it's a joke it's partly defensible but I don't see the punchline.
If it's not a joke, then it would be kinda racist. But it would still make little logical sense. Even if he set out to be racist with this (he didn't) it still falls flat even doing that.

Just seems like a very weird choice to make. And if I was Disney I'd be wary just because of the sheer unpredictability.

 

[Bastables]

"He wasn't trying to communicate a hateful message" he says, in a sarcastic manner.

What hateful message was PDP going for here?

He straight up says that he's spreading hate.

Yeah mate "death to all jews" is literally a hateful message, Matt then argues that it's use in a joke was poorly done and layered with using people poorer than him to convey a message: People doing things for money, while using that to make money. Where does he go PDP=antisemite?

 

[-Mutsukki-]

I don't think so. He seemed to genuinely care that he got those guys in trouble.

But that makes the question even stronger. Who was the subject of the "satire" in the video.

If it's not making fun of Jewish people?
If it's not making fun of people who will do anything for money?
If it's not making fun of Nazi's (I'm sure he hates nazis but there was no direct jab at them)

Is it Keemster he's poking fun of? Seems a very roundabout way to do it.

What is the intended point of this?

If it's a joke it's partly defensible but I don't see the punchline.
If it's not a joke, then it would be kinda racist. But it would still make little logical sense. Even if he set out to be racist with this (he didn't) it still falls flat even doing that.

Just seems like a very weird choice to make. And if I was Disney I'd be wary just because of the sheer unpredictability.

Shock value. That's about how much worth this has. He's been running this "Hitler" theme for a while now, be it to mock him or parody him or whatever, and this was what came up to him. It was shitty and he honestly deserves the shit he's getting from Disney and Youtube. It wasn't harmless either, but... it's just that. It's dumb, very very dumb. The punchline is the shock value, he could have written literally anything else that's also edgy, but he's too into 4chan lately.

 

[excelsiorlef]

"He wasn't trying to communicate a hateful message" he says, in a sarcastic manner.

What hateful message was PDP going for here?

He straight up says that he's spreading hate.

I mean Death to Jews, joke or not is a hateful message dude.

 

[depths20XX]

Yeah mate "death to all jews" is literally a hateful message, Matt then argues that it's use in a joke was poorly done. Where does he go PDP=antisemite?

He said he's spreading hateful messages for money when the message was not a genuine belief from PDP. I don't get how this is so difficult for you to understand. It was a bad jab at Keemstar and that was it.

Do you understand when someone is fully behind a message and when it's meant in jest? It was in poor taste for sure but not a serious belief of this guy.

 

[janoDX]

Aaaaand Keemstar going in in defense of PDP

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrpVS2SyjgA

 

[Matt]

"He wasn't trying to communicate a hateful message" he says, in a sarcastic manner.

What hateful message was PDP going for here?

He straight up says that he's spreading hate.

You absolutely misunderstood that statement. My point was, under your logic, Pew was communicating hate the same way those two guys on Fiverr were communicating hate. As in, they were both doing it in order to make a buck, not to spread an actual ideology. So what is the joke he was trying to make, when he is guilty of the exact same thing they are?

 

[Bastables]

He said he's spreading hateful messages for money when the message was not a genuine belief from PDP. I don't get how this is so difficult for you to understand. It was a bad jab at Keemstar and that was it.

It's not difficult to understand, you're unable to comprehend Matt's argument and are trying to pin him to the idea that criticism of PDP shitty joke= PDP has a antisemite soul strawman.

 

[Keihart]

The message was "Death to all jews, subscribe to keemstar"
Just in case someone is confused about it.

 

[aravuus]

Aaaaand Keemstar going in in defense of PDP

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrpVS2SyjgA

Fuck, shouldn't have given this cunt a click lol

 

[depths20XX]

You absolutely misunderstood that statement. My point was, under your logic, Pew was communicating hate the same way those two guys on Fiverr were communicating hate. As in, they were both doing it in order to make a buck, not to spread an actual ideology. So what is the joke he was trying to make, when he is guilty of the exact same thing they are?

I never thought either of them were communicating hate so I guess this discussion has been lost in text.

 

[excelsiorlef]

The message was "Death to all jews, subscribe to keemstar"
Just in case someone is confused about it.

So what?

 

[Matt]

I never thought either of them were communicating hate so I guess this discussion has been lost in text.

If you don't think they were communicating hate, then what was the joke supposed to be? Wasn't it that people will say anything for money? If "death to all Jews" isn't hateful, then what was outlandish about getting the guys to say it?

 

[Keihart]

so now some posters don't have to asume things since some don't seem to be able to even watch the video or read the complete facts.

 

[Hakkelus]

I don't think he is Nazi or anything like that, but you just can't say anything you want and then say "I was just joking!"

 

[janoDX]

so now some posters don't have to asume things since some don't seem to be able to even watch the video or read the complete facts.

Just like the iDubbbz/Tana Mongeau incident.

iDubbbz went, told the joke, Tana reacted, then on video she went far and away with the situation even exaggerating, then gets exposed with the facts.

PDP went, did the video, Media/GAF reacted, then on posts went far and away with the situation even exaggerating, then get exposed with the facts. Difference here is that Maker dropped him between their rights because he doesn't appeal to the target audience they want. iDubbbz still hasn't been dropped by Maker.

 

[depths20XX]

If you don't think they were communicating hate, then what was the joke supposed to be? Wasn't it that people will say anything for money? If "death to all Jews" isn't hateful, then what was outlandish about getting the guys to say it?

If you think PDP was going for a message of hate towards Jewish people I don't really have anything else to say to you. You completely missed the boat if you took that literally. That's my point. There was no hate. It was a shitty message meant to be shocking to see what people would say for money and that's it. He apologized and realized it was dumb. Disney or whatever is within their right to drop him.

 

[Scrooge McDuck]

He said he's spreading hateful messages for money when the message was not a genuine belief from PDP. I don't get how this is so difficult for you to understand. It was a bad jab at Keemstar and that was it.

Do you understand when someone is fully behind a message and when it's meant in jest? It was in poor taste for sure but not a serious belief of this guy.

A hateful message doesn't magically stop being a hateful message when the person spreading it doesn't believe in it. I don't get how this is so difficult for you to understand. Perhaps you are thinking that the "hateful" part means that the person spreading it has to be full or hate or something?

 

[Scientist Supreme!]

If you think PDP was going for a message of hate towards Jewish people I don't really have anything else to say to you. You completely missed the boat if you took that literally. That's my point. There was no hate. It was a shitty message meant to be shocking to see what people would say for money and that's it. He apologized and realized it was dumb. Disney or whatever is within their right to drop him.

I don't think you have a clue what your argument is judging by this scatterbrained post.

 

[Nanashrew]

I mean saying "death to all jews" ironically on this board will get you banned. It could cost you your job at your workplace too. Saying it ironically doesn't make it any less hateful.

 

[depths20XX]

A hateful message doesn't magically stop being a hateful message when the person spreading it doesn't believe in it. I don't get how this is so difficult for you to understand. Perhaps you are thinking that the "hateful" part means that the person spreading it has to be full or hate or something?

Like all the follow up videos were about context but you didn't watch them or something I guess?

 

[Matt]

If you think PDP was going for a message of hate towards Jewish people I don't really have anything else to say to you. You completely missed the boat if you took that literally. That's my point. There was no hate. It was a shitty message meant to be shocking to see what people would say for money and that's it. He apologized and realized it was dumb. Disney or whatever is within their right to drop him.

It's shocking how you are refusing to understand what I am saying, and then accuse me of misunderstanding something.

Under your logic, both the guys on Fiverr AND PDP are communicating the same thing, for the same reason: money. So what is the joke PDP is making?

 

[janoDX]

A hateful message doesn't magically stop being a hateful message when the person spreading it doesn't believe in it. I don't get how this is so difficult for you to understand. Perhaps you are thinking that the "hateful" part means that the person spreading it has to be full or hate or something?

How can I explain that a message wasn't directed to the ones that the message mentioned?

It was an aimless message that wasn't spewing hate at the jews. Yes, people could be offended at the expression and they're on their right to say "this offended me and I will not watch him or give him views", but that doesn't mean that the message was aimed at them or it was hateful at them.

It was a random message to test how far they will go to win $5.

And even that, the message was directed at Keemstar and even Keem admited that "he was the butt of the joke".

 

[depths20XX]

It's shocking how you are refusing to understand what I am saying, and then accuse me of misunderstanding something.

Under your logic, both the guys on Fiverr AND PDP are communicating the same thing, for the same reason: money. So what is the joke PDP is making?

It was a failed joke on keemstar as far as I have learned. Combined with seeing what outrageous things people say for pay. I'm not saying it was smart.

 

[Dio]

It's shocking how you are refusing to understand what I am saying, and then accuse me of misunderstanding something.

Under your logic, both the guys on Fiverr AND PDP are communicating the same thing, for the same reason: money. So what is the joke PDP is making?

The joke is at Keemstar's expense. 'Death to all Jews...subscribe to Keemstar' is a phrase meant to associate the 'Death to all Jews' with Keemstar, who's called people nigger in aa non-jokey venomous manner on stream before so we know he's a racist asshole.