NYT: Trump Campaign Aides Had Repeated Contacts With Russian Intelligence

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You know what this shit is like?

A Clancy novel. Maybe a new book. Call it

'Red Storm Warning'

Russia setting American foreign policy by proxy and sowing chaos among the country's citizenry, getting them to fight each other. Using it all as a distraction/cover to take over desired territories and maximize its influence.
 
Evil Monkey DTT said:
Real question, it's dumb but I've never had to consider it before. Can a president fire his vice president and replace him?
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No, like the POTUS, the VP was elected into his position, and can only be impeached by congress. That said, I think Trump could isolate him and keep him from the meetings.

Edit: I suppose the president could also pressure their VP to resign, though they cannot be ordered to do so.
 
Im not even American and it frustrates me so much how you guys are being done right now. This is a classic corrupt authoritarian regime. Dont expect it to go away. This administration will change your democratic laws, entrench itself in every bill and will never leave willingly. Do not trust lawmakers to do the right thing, its past that point now. You must hold all republicans equally rrsponsible, take your country back by showing them they dont own it. Make noise, break shit, demand justice be done.
 
PizzaFace said:
Yep, everyone is getting excited for nothing.

Nothing significant will come of this.

I truly, truly hope I'm wrong of course.
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Then get up and do something about it, instead of complaining nothing will be done. Defeatism never works, and is only a good way to make things worse for you and those around you.
 
PizzaFace said:
Yep, everyone is getting excited for nothing.

Nothing significant will come of this.

I truly, truly hope I'm wrong of course.
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You are healthy I hope and you have capabilities to organise. If you have both of these, band together and march. Demand justice.
Justice is never given to you by those in power. It is always taken by demanding it. Civil rights for black Americans wouldn't exist if it werent for everyone banding together, and that was an arguably more difficult situation.
 
Guys, could we knock it off with the in-fighting about "defeatism"? Being a cynical observer doesn't mean someone doesn't also hope and work for change. The attitude purity tests for the last page or so have been insufferable.
 
Evil Monkey DTT said:
Real question, it's dumb but I've never had to consider it before. Can a president fire his vice president and replace him?
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To replace your VP (short of resigning) you need to wait until the next election. A President can choose a new running mate for his next term, and it's happened before. Roosevelt had 3 different Vice Presidents for his 4 terms (keep in mind they had not instated term limits yet) and Truman only became President because Roosevelt died very shortly into his 4th.

It's exceedingly rare, but it can happen.
 
I guess, "Democrats are spineless" is the new "SJW". A phrase to discourage a person from wanting and expecting change ,for the former, and calling out terrible behavior, for the latter.
 
XANDER CAGE said:
Guys, could we knock it off with the in-fighting about "defeatism"? Being a cynical observer doesn't mean someone doesn't also hope and work for change. The attitude purity tests for the last page or so have been insufferable.
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I think the endless "This will change nothing" posts are insufferable but I guess that's just me. It's like going into a game thread and saying, "I'm not interested." Adds nothing to the conversation and leads to derail.

"Attitude purity tests."

Okay, buddy.
 
So if they find evidence that Trump's team and Russia manipulated the election and discussed sanction plan, what are the consequences?

Impeachment? Prison? Pretend like it's nothing?
 
Mifune said:
I think the endless "This will change nothing" posts are insufferable but I guess that's just me. It's like going into a game thread and saying, "I'm not interested." Adds nothing to the conversation and leads to derail.

"Attitude purity tests."

Okay, buddy.
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Hey friend, it's not entirely unprecedented given how much absurd stuff has come and gone with this past election cycle and administration. Cynicism in this regard isn't exactly built on a flimsy foundation, and also doesn't preclude someone from caring. There's a massive gulf between not giving a shit and giving a shit, but feeling disillusioned. It'a certainly no less productive than counting all the eggs before they've hatched.
 
PEaoGyX.jpg
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Even Rand Paul is falling in line. :/
BusinessInsider
 
Bravoexo said:
Wonder what Pence move be... if he distances himself from Trump or not, quite telling either way.
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I doubt he does much different beyond his current role of "keeping his head down" and letting Priebus serve as the voice of reason in Trump's carnival of nonsense - butting heads with Bannon all the while.

I don't believe we'll be seeing Pence volunteer to do damage control on the Sunday morning shows for Trump's shenanigans any more if he can help it. Trump seemed to enjoy Miller's showing last weekend so let Mr. Box Factory own that role and deal with the consequences.
 
Meus Renaissance said:
I think this is being somewhat overblown to be honest, along with the Flynn debacle.
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Remember how the GOP blew every little thing about Hillary out of proportion? Remember how they drove the idea that she was untrustworthy and dangerous into the minds of millions? Remember how it worked? Those who give no quarter shall receive none.
 
animlboogy said:
hwot u on about m8

seriously, I have no idea how you made the connection from one thing to the other. Do you misinterpret "Democrats are spineless" to mean liberals in general or something? Because in the context of this thread I've only seen it used to refer to actual politicians.
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The phrase "Democrats are spineless" for me symbolizes the defeatist attitude of anti-Trump supporters and its something that can and has been used to discourage people from rising up against him and just wait things out and accept the current situation.

Just like how labeling someone as 'SJW' is used to discourage people in the interwebs from calling out shitty behavior.
 
XANDER CAGE said:
Hey friend, it's not entirely unprecedented given how much absurd stuff has come and gone with this past election cycle and administration. Cynicism in this regard isn't exactly built on a flimsy foundation, and also doesn't preclude someone from caring. There's a massive gulf between not giving a shit and giving a shit, but feeling disillusioned. It'a certainly no less productive than counting all the eggs before they've hatched.
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This, thank you.
 
The "contact" has been known since the campaign. This is nothing new - there have been dozens of articles on this by the NYTimes. Significantly, none of the information they've gathered -- and that has been leaked to them -- has suggested or indicated that the Trump campaign knew that these Russians had close ties to the Kremlin** or that they were FSB.

What is obvious to me is that, Trump aides (few of which had any connections to Washington) relied on his web of business associates to garner support and expertise. Anyone familiar with Russian wealth knows a great deal is related, at least partly, to the Kremlin associates; Russian billionaires know, or knew, members of the Russian government. We see it to a lesser extent in the west with billionaires having relationships with senior administration officials (i.e. Richard Branson vacationing with Barack Obama).

It is likely that some of these Russian connections were intelligence officers, or at least were in contact with them. Can that give the appearance that Trump aides were colluding with Putin? Yes. Does it mean that they knowingly did so? No. As Paul Manafort said recently, "These people don't wear FSB badges."
 
SuperEpicMan said:
GOP senator: Flynn will "likely" be asked to testify about communications with Russia
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So there's a chance that he won't be asked to testify then? I mean, I suppose Mitch McConnell might feel it's not necessary.
Let's instead spend weeks deliberating whether there's any value in having investigations instead. That sounds much more productive.

Chichikov said:
Party before country.
I want those people to be nailed to those statements now, because you'll know they'll run away from them if they're up for re-election and Trump is sitting on 30% approval ratings.
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Democrats will need to feel cowed to refer to all of these people as traitors heading into the 2018 elections.
My bet is that some of them will shy away from doing that for fear of losing the moderates who might take offense to that idea.
 
I can see Trump walking before his tax returns become public. His persona would be shattered and his business is all he cares about. I hope he doesn't get off that easy, put him in court , reveal all, no deals. Knock this administration down to nothing, they all have to go, even Pence who is probably smart enough to stay out the loop but was likely aware of it completely.
 
zulux21 said:
And sure for you it's not easier to merely give up. For most of the people in my life they find the embrace of ignorance far more enjoyable and easier then attempting to continue caring and living their lives in constant depression over our current situation.
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I honestly do not mean to sound like a dick at all... but, one kinda only has oneself to blame for the mess.

If people actually started putting in the work, toward voting FOR - and getting everyone they know to vote for - their actual interests, not against them due to the money-grubbing propaganda from Super PACs etc., etc., then your life would be so much easier and more fulfilling; you'd be able to maintain a job, and your health, in prosperous perpetuity, while also having the time and energy to maintain your enfranchisement in the democratic process.

Democracy is hard fucking work, but it's worth it.

But we currently live in an oligarchy, so we don't know what democracy's truly like.
 
jelly said:
I can see Trump walking before his tax returns become public. His persona would be shattered and his business is all he cares about. I hope he doesn't get off that easy, put him in court , reveal all, no deals. Knock this administration down to nothing, they all have to go, even Pence who is probably smart enough to stay out the loop but was likely aware of it completely.
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Totally. If he was forced into releasing his tax returns (in full, unfiltered), I think he would quit instead. And the GOP knows this which is why they're blocking any attempt now while Trump is still useful (how long that lasts is anyone's guess...).

SuperEpicMan said:
I am curious as to what Russia's next move will be. Their plans for Trump are unravelling, so how can they make the most of the current position.
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I think their overall plan is going roughly as intended. It wasn't about control, that's too far-fetched and obvious, they instead wanted to destabilize the US by shattering faith in the democratic process and making them look weak and unreliable on the world stage (especially around Eastern Europe / NATO border).
 
To my understanding, the Logan Act was designed to prevent private citizens negotiating with foreign powers without the knowledge or consent of government. Understandable.

Flynn, who was a Natl Sec under the Obama administration until recently, spoke to the Russian ambassador - a man he already knew in his professional capacity - before the inauguration whilst he was a private citizen. But, come on - it's not like Jim Bob from Alabama made a deal with the Russians to circumvent government policy. In fact, Flynn didn't negotiate at all, according to the NYTimes.

The Obama officials asked the F.B.I. if a quid pro quo had been discussed on the call, and the answer came back no, according to one of the officials, who like others asked not to be named discussing delicate communications. The topic of sanctions came up, they were told, but there was no deal.
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So sanctions -- the topic news at the time -- "came up" between two colleagues, one of which who was about to return to government to serve in a similar role.

It's a silly controversy, one that I think we've all signed up to just to see how the Trump White House reacts to controversy. But when you get to the details, you realise there isn't much here to be angry about. At least in this instance.
 
Mully said:
But fuzzy pictures of UFOs are supposedly ironclad proof for you.
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If you disagree with my point of view, then we can talk about it. You don't need to misrepresent my thinking on other topics with snarky comments in an effort to discredit me as an individual. You can just say: this is why I think you're wrong.
 
UberTag said:
Democrats will need to feel cowed to refer to all of these people as traitors heading into the 2018 elections.
My bet is that some of them will shy away from doing that for fear of losing the moderates who might take offense to that idea.
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I seriously doubt any Democrat running in an election will have an issue using clips of their opponents and I seriously doubt moderates or anyone would be offended by this, it's standard practice in American politics.
Which is why I think the priority now is to try to get Republican on the record, a lot of them have been trying to avoid those or any questions, but you can press them.

p.s.
I don't think calling them traitors is the best tactic by the way, but that's a different discussion.
 
Meus Renaissance said:
So sanctions -- the topic news at the time -- "came up" between two colleagues, one of which who was about to return to government to serve in a similar role.

It's a silly controversy, one that I think we've all signed up to just to see how the Trump White House reacts to controversy. But when you get to the details, you realise there isn't much here to be angry about. At least in this instance.
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I think this is a very naive take. Flynn may be careless and gullible (going by his past twitter account), but the Russian Ambassador isn't, he knew the phones were bugged. He's not going to suggest some mustache twirling quid-pro-quo, real life is more subtle than that. Just the mere mention of the sanctions sets a clear tone. And I guarantee it wasn't met with a furious response from Flynn saying he can't discuss that then hanging up.

Also, if it i as "silly" as you suggest, and just an oversight as he went from one official position to another, he wouldn't have lied about it repeated to his bosses.
 
Fox throwing Trump under the bus? Fox gearing up for President Pence. Trying to keep him clean, maybe.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...in-dark-about-flynns-russian-phone-calls.html

Trump, after learning about the phone calls, kept Vice President Pence in the dark about Flynn’s conversations with Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak, the Associated Press reported Tuesday, citing White House officials.

Pence and other officials emphatically defended Flynn in the weeks leading up to his resignation.
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Pence and White House Chief of Staff Reince Priebus played an integral role in Flynn’s resignation, sources told Fox News.
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Meus Renaissance said:
To my understanding, the Logan Act was designed to prevent private citizens negotiating with foreign powers without the knowledge or consent of government. Understandable.

Flynn, who was a Natl Sec under the Obama administration until recently, spoke to the Russian ambassador - a man he already knew in his professional capacity - before the inauguration whilst he was a private citizen. But, come on - it's not like Jim Bob from Alabama made a deal with the Russians to circumvent government policy. In fact, Flynn didn't negotiate at all, according to the NYTimes.



So sanctions -- the topic news at the time -- "came up" between two colleagues, one of which who was about to return to government to serve in a similar role.

It's a silly controversy, one that I think we've all signed up to just to see how the Trump White House reacts to controversy. But when you get to the details, you realise there isn't much here to be angry about. At least in this instance.
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Problem is Trump keeps lying about contacts with Russia.
 
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