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[ramparter]

Warner Bros. Pictures to Marvel Studios be like

 

[jelly]

I think these two articles sum up the problem with Mel Gibson and his lack of apology. He has had opportunities, has done some things on the quiet and there is definitely a lack of focus on the racist black comments from him and media, more focus on the jew parts which is a big problem.

http://deadline.com/2014/03/mel-gibson-career-hollywood-deserves-chance-697084/

https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2016/11/mel-gibson-is-not-sorry/506225/

The Colbert one was pretty recent and he was trying so hard to get something out of him but wasn't happening.

 

[Sgt. Kabukiman]

Snyder was confirmed at the very beginning to direct JL2 but that was when JL would be a 2 parter. When that plan changed (likely due to WB rethinking a 2 parter when the movies would be years apart) it left Snyder free to do a possible passion project. Then The Batman got delayed and now there's talk that Snyder may have time to do both his movie and JL2. They want The Batman out as quickly as possible. Almost like they feel that is what will keep the ship from sinking. If they wanted Snyder off he'd be off already regardless of how JL does. But Snyder's company partially funds this universe (Snyder and his wife are responsible for there even being a WW movie) and Snyder sticks around and completes the movies WB want even if they mess with him. He's a loyal dog and you don't put out loyal dogs. Not especially after losing Rick, Michelle and Ben as directors.

We'll see but if JL doesn't outgross BvS (which isn't that unlikely), I doubt Snyder will keep on going as a director within the DCEU no matter how embedded he is. He could still be involved as a producer. Plus, he has made three superhero films in a row and only one original movie in his entire career and he's being shit on constantly. I imagine he'd be relieved to give the reigns to somebody else at this point.

Pure speculation of course, we won't know for sure until we see the box-office numbers for JL but if I had to bet, I'd say he's gone as a director. I interpreted the JL2 delay as a lack of faith in the current direction of the DCEU from both Snyder and WB but who knows.

 

[Lord Frieza]

We'll see but if JL doesn't outgross BvS (which isn't that unlikely), I doubt Snyder will keep on going as a director within the DCEU no matter how embedded he is. He could still be involved as a producer. Plus, he has made three superhero films in a row and only one original movie in his entire career and he's being shit on constantly. I imagine he'd be relieved to give the reigns to somebody else at this point

Nah, Snyder straight out doesn't give a shit. He's keep doing these movies for as long as they let him, partially because he just loves does it, partially because he sees himself as a savior to comic adaptations. Not kidding on the last bit either.

 

[Mix Master]

Mel directing a cape film. The genre needs LESS films tbh not more! Imagine Fukunaga directing a thor film, gross!

 

[Sgt. Kabukiman]

Nah, Snyder straight out doesn't give a shit. He's keep doing these movies for as long as they let him, partially because he just loves does it, partially because he sees himself as a savior to comic adaptations. Not kidding on the last bit either.

Well, to be fair, that interview is from 3 years ago. Let's see how he feels by the end of this year.
But geez, I had never read that:

So, honestly, I made “Watchmen” for myself. It’s probably my favorite movie that I’ve made. And I love the graphic novel and I really love everything about the movie. I love the style. I just love the movie and it was a labor of love. And I made it because I knew that the studio would have made the movie anyway and they would have made it crazy. So, finally I made it to save it from the Terry Gilliams of this world.

Lol, maybe he should direct that Don Quixote movie then.
I actually like Snyder's Watchmen but what a crazy quote.

 

[broncobuster]

Well, to be fair, that interview is from 3 years ago. Let's see how he feels by the end of this year.
But geez, I had never read that:



Lol, maybe he should direct that Don Quixote movie then.
I actually like Snyder's Watchmen but what a crazy quote.

Terry Gilliam's Watchmen would've made people so mad for how it deviates from the source material, but I would've wanted to see it.

 

[Blader]

What a bizarre, left-field choice. I'm not sure what's weirder: WB risking all the baggage to get Gibson to direct this, or Gibson entertaining the offer at all, especially after he just shit on BvS last year.

Interesting that they're moving ahead to get a different director for SS2 while Ayer does Sirens. I wonder if this is a sign that they're trying to do a clean break with the first film, and maybe have the sequel act as sort of a soft reboot (not a literal reboot, mind)? I can't imagine Gibson wanting to be too beholden to anything that happened in the first movie, especially if the main thing that's interested him in this is the cast.

 

[Apt101]

Well, on the one hand, he's a great director.

On the other, of all superhero properties, this sounds like possibly the worst to pair him with (given the tone and content of the first film).

I still refer to the first image we got of the new Joker as a reflection of the mess the DCEU is. So I guess this would be par for the course.

 

[jett]

I just want a take a minute and point out that a lot of people in this thread are focused on the racist things Gibson has has said, but what about the racist things he has actually done? The Passion of the Christ, which was a lifelong dream project for Gibson, is one of the most breathtakingly antisemitic films to ever get a mainstream release. The movie's POV is that the Jews literally killed Jesus and that the Romans were just the weapon they chose to use. This is a traditional line of antisemitic thinking going back for centuries and was most famously used by the Nazis as a justification for the Holocaust.

In the movie, Pontius Pilate is portrayed as a decent and honorable man who is conflicted about having to put Jesus to death: he doesn't really want to do it, but the rabbis force his hand by making him choose between doing what he knows is morally right (sparing Jesus) and upholding his duty as Roman prefect (proceeding with the execution in accordance with Roman laws). Pilate begrudgingly agrees to go through with the execution, but he is shown to be racked with guilt afterwards (including collapsing in his wife's arms and sobbing - WTF?!), while the rabbis are portrayed throughout the movie as bloodthirsty monsters who will stop at nothing to see Jesus dead. In other words, the Roman prefect was a good dude who wanted to do the right thing, but those dirty scheming Jews forced him to commit the ultimate crime.

None of this is supported by the scriptures, mind you, these are all flourishes that Gibson decided needed to be in the movie. And not only did he put this shit about Pilate's anguish in the movie, he made it a focal point, a pivotal scene that the entire movie hinges on. Basically, Gibson is saying that we should all blame the Jews for the crucifixion. And since this movie went on the become this highest grossing R-rated film of all time, and since Gibson and company crowed about the lengths they went to be as historically accurate as possible, this is the version of the story that millions of people around the world now believe. Gibson literally made the world a more racist place with this movie.

The fact that this movie was a dream project for Gibson (so much so that he put up his own money and stepped outside of the studio system to make it and distribute it), and that antisemitism is the spin he decided to put on it, should be deeply troubling. We can talk about the terrible things Gibson has said over the years, but the level of effort he put into making a racist film speaks even louder than his words ever could, which is why I will never believe any apology from him until he denounces and disowns this movie entirely.

I'm an atheist now, but as a child in a catholic school that's what I was told. That it was the Jewish elders and high priests that pushed for Jesus's death. A quick googling gives me this:

https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Bible_(American_Standard)/Matthew#27:20
Maybe Gibson made it more of a focal point, but when I watched it it didn't feel like it was extraneous to what I was taught.

 

[orava]

It does not matter if the movie has the best director, writers and cast. The studio will ruin it.

 

[Calm waterfall]

I just want a take a minute and point out that a lot of people in this thread are focused on the racist things Gibson has has said, but what about the racist things he has actually done? The Passion of the Christ, which was a lifelong dream project for Gibson, is one of the most breathtakingly antisemitic films to ever get a mainstream release. The movie's POV is that the Jews literally killed Jesus and that the Romans were just the weapon they chose to use. This is a traditional line of antisemitic thinking going back for centuries and was most famously used by the Nazis as a justification for the Holocaust.

In the movie, Pontius Pilate is portrayed as a decent and honorable man who is conflicted about having to put Jesus to death: he doesn't really want to do it, but the rabbis force his hand by making him choose between doing what he knows is morally right (sparing Jesus) and upholding his duty as Roman prefect (proceeding with the execution in accordance with Roman laws). Pilate begrudgingly agrees to go through with the execution, but he is shown to be racked with guilt afterwards (including collapsing in his wife's arms and sobbing - WTF?!), while the rabbis are portrayed throughout the movie as bloodthirsty monsters who will stop at nothing to see Jesus dead. In other words, the Roman prefect was a good dude who wanted to do the right thing, but those dirty scheming Jews forced him to commit the ultimate crime.

None of this is supported by the scriptures, mind you, these are all flourishes that Gibson decided needed to be in the movie. And not only did he put this shit about Pilate's anguish in the movie, he made it a focal point, a pivotal scene that the entire movie hinges on. Basically, Gibson is saying that we should all blame the Jews for the crucifixion. And since this movie went on the become this highest grossing R-rated film of all time, and since Gibson and company crowed about the lengths they went to be as historically accurate as possible, this is the version of the story that millions of people around the world now believe. Gibson literally made the world a more racist place with this movie.

The fact that this movie was a dream project for Gibson (so much so that he put up his own money and stepped outside of the studio system to make it and distribute it), and that antisemitism is the spin he decided to put on it, should be deeply troubling. We can talk about the terrible things Gibson has said over the years, but the level of effort he put into making a racist film speaks even louder than his words ever could, which is why I will never believe any apology from him until he denounces and disowns this movie entirely.

The movie was not an anti Semite because it represented what many people believe and what is written in the Bible.

 

[bengraven]

SS is so douchey it almost makes Mel look like a straight up kind of bloke.

 

[flozuki]

What?

This can't be real, right? I like Mel's movies but he'd be a terrible choice for something like Suicide Squad.

Terrible choice and almost everything that happens in DCEU is nothing that excludes each other ;-)

 

[shingi70]

SS is so douchey it almost makes Mel look like a straight up kind of bloke.

Get the fuck out of here, a bad movie with a diverse cast doesn't almost excuse anything when were taking about a Racist piece of shit.

You sound like a fucking moron and your exactly what's wrong with normalizing Racsim.

 

[Tangled Up in Blue]

I actually want to address this a little. I don't think this is something that should be blamed entirely on Gibson here. It's true that he made Pilate's guilt and regret a big component of character study in the film, but it doesn't spawn from nothing. In scripture Pilate was in fact unwilling to execute Jesus. When Jesus proclaimed that his authority came from heaven, scripture states that Pilate became very anxious to free Jesus. It was only because he was more afraid of the mob and that there was cultural pressure where the Jews were allowed a certain amount of autonomy to ruling on their own people historically, that he eventually relented, and he went on to tell the people that he washes his hands of this and that his blood is on their hands. There is also evidence of his guilt in how the inscription he orders on the cross states that Jesus is "King of the Jews" and not "This man said he was king of the Jews".

Modern Christians, especially Catholics, do have a historical culture of finding the Jews of the time uniquely to blame for the death of Christ. Does this encourage racism? Yes. Is it inherently a negative thing? Absolutely. But it's a complex matter and blaming this as something Gibson made up on his own is not fair. It is a product of the history of the Church. He expands on what most people already believe is part of Pilate's character. Which is why it is so openly accepted and embraced as an interesting read, rather than a racist expression.

I don't want to derail the thread too badly by getting into a theological debate, but it was my understanding that Pilate had been traditionally portrayed as, at best, indifferent to Jesus' plight, but went along with the execution to avoid crossing the Jewish leadership because of the headaches it would cause for him down the road. Another traditional portrayal of Pilate is, as you pointed out, that he was a coward who gave into the mob. The idea of Pilate being a good man racked with guilt at being forced to kill Jesus may not have been an idea that Gibson created, but it wasn't nearly as mainstream a portrayal as the others, which is why it's odd that Gibson went with that interpretation. It's also odd that the Jewish leadership in the film are portrayed as cartoonish murderous schemers while Pilate gets a much more nuanced and well-rounded portrayal.

Also, Pilate declaring Jesus as "King of the Jews" was less about an expression of guilt and more about giving the middle finger to Hebrew leadership with whom he frequently clashed.

I'm not saying that the Jewish leadership didn't play a significant role in the crucifixion, of course they did. However, the idea that the Romans didn't really want to go through with it and the Jews basically forced them to is an old antisemitic idea that's not fully supported by historians and scholars. And honestly, if you look at the film by itself without any context of Gibson's actions outside of the film, I can see how one could shrug off his portrayal of the Jews. But when you combine it with Gibson's drunken statements and take into account that his father is a famous Holocaust denier, it becomes harder to give the movie the benefit of the doubt.

 

[Sgt. Kabukiman]

Terry Gilliam's Watchmen would've made people so mad for how it deviates from the source material, but I would've wanted to see it.

Would have loved to see it as well. I always thought that a Watchmen adaptation needed to deviate anyway to fully work as a film. I appreciate the Snyder version but it's too literal at times. The ending was the least of my problems with the film, I thought it worked just fine.

 

[BatDan]

Isn't Gibson one of those directors that despises studio interference? Having produced The Passion out of his own pocket? He would be suffocated.

I don't see how bringing his racist, anti-Semitic ass in will somehow fix things.

Hey WB?

 

[Finaika]

Just saw Hacksaw Ridge.

It was pretty good, so I'm looking forward to the sequel.

 

[BronsonLee]

Isn't Gibson one of those directors that despises studio interference?

WB's actually pretty director-friendly all things considered

 

[Kibbles]

Here's the interview of him talking suicide squad https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NtE3SJCr8W8

lol can't hear a damn thing besides some zippers, iPhone 7 speakers tho guess I'll need headphones. But yesss please happen

 

[shintoki]

WB's actually pretty director-friendly all things considered

WB likes to build relationships with directors. Synder, Eastwood, Nolan. They haven't had to go to another studio, because WB is willing to work with them on both their own projects and studio ones.

This could be WB trying to bring him into their fold. Mel is batting 1000 still with his movies directed. Apocalypto is still ironically, one of the most progressive films in Hollywood where the entire cast is unknown, it's subtitle, and there isn't a single white actor in it outside the extra at the end. And it still did bank. While his other three films all did better and picked up a handful of Oscars nominations. with some wins.

If they are looking to groom him into another Eastwood(Ironically enough), he's a good choice. Since it's clear Mel still has an uphill battle for acceptance back, but at least now it's clear he isn't poison.

On Suicide Squad, it could either be very awesome or very bad. But then again, Ayer was a great choice too(Fury, End of Watch), but it's clear the issue was the script foremost. They actually need to make a proper one more like AA rather than some bullshit plug for Batman and Superman.

 

[duckroll]

I don't want to derail the thread too badly by getting into a theological debate, but it was my understanding that Pilate had been traditionally portrayed as, at best, indifferent to Jesus' plight, but went along with the execution to avoid crossing the Jewish leadership because of the headaches it would cause for him down the road. Another traditional portrayal of Pilate is, as you pointed out, that he was a coward who gave into the mob. The idea of Pilate being a good man racked with guilt at being forced to kill Jesus may not have been an idea that Gibson created, but it wasn't nearly as mainstream a portrayal as the others, which is why it's odd that Gibson went with that interpretation. It's also odd that the Jewish leadership in the film are portrayed as cartoonish murderous schemers while Pilate gets a much more nuanced and well-rounded portrayal.

Also, Pilate declaring Jesus as "King of the Jews" was less about an expression of guilt and more about giving the middle finger to Hebrew leadership with whom he frequently clashed.

I'm not saying that the Jewish leadership didn't play a significant role in the crucifixion, of course they did. However, the idea that the Romans didn't really want to go through with it and the Jews basically forced them to is an old antisemitic idea that's not fully supported by historians and scholars. And honestly, if you look at the film by itself without any context of Gibson's actions outside of the film, I can see how one could shrug off his portrayal of the Jews. But when you combine it with Gibson's drunken statements and take into account that his father is a famous Holocaust denier, it becomes harder to give the movie the benefit of the doubt.

It would probably not be good to derail the thread with this discussion, however interesting, so I'll reply to this, and if there's actual interest in it maybe someone can create a thread about it later and we can continue from there. I'm not super invested into this debate, but I do find it somewhat interesting. I just want to lay out what I'm trying to express here before there's any confusion.

I'm not giving the film or Gibson any benefit of the doubt. I do believe that the Catholic Church and Christianity in general has had a negative impact on how the Jewish people are viewed historically because of the portrayal of their role in the death of Jesus. What I am saying is that Gibson's portrayal is informed by his beliefs, rather than him using the film as a vehicle for his racism. Are his beliefs racist in nature? There is a high possibility of that. But where does this particular bias originate from? I believe it comes from him truly believing in the material he is depicting.

I don't really agree with the passive view of Pilate. It's fair to say he probably wasn't a good person who was simply forced into this by the totally evil crowd. Being a leader in that time and holding political power of any sort, he is likely to have had his own ambitions and was looking out for himself. But I think there is enough to infer from the Bible itself that he was personally conflicted by the case of Jesus in particular. He was anxious to release him and in fact pleaded with the crowd to use their custom to release him, but they chose a criminal instead. Given that, and how he constantly referred to Jesus as "your King" when addressing the Jews, I find it harder to maneuver to a reading where Pilate's inscription on the cross is merely a middle finger to the Jewish leadership. His insistence that "what I have written, I have written" suggests it was a personal decision that he was sticking to. Not a political reason.

It's worth noting that even in his brief role in Scripture, Pilate is an unusually conflicted and morally complex character. It seems likely to me that there is a deliberate intent in the narrative to use him as a contrast to the Jewish mob and to show that it was not by any form of political discourse or circumstance that Jesus was crucified. That to fulfill earlier Scripture, the sole cause of His demise is that He was rejected by the very people He came to save, and that they spat in the face of God's grace. So the problem of the Jewish depiction in Passion of the Christ is a much deeper problem than one man's racism run rampant in a film he directed. It was rather an expression of his true beliefs, and beliefs shared by, in my opinion, the majority of those who are part of the umbrella this religious text falls under. Obviously that is not to say that Christians all hate Jews today, that's clearly untrue, and Gibson's racism expressed in his drunken rants are his own personal demons. But I do think that it is a fair opinion to say that most Christians belief that the Jews of the day in the time of Christ were solely responsible for His death. A reasonable person who believes that would also accept that sins of the previous generations should not pass on, so there isn't really any excuse for it to manifest as active antisemitism today. Yet there is no denying that the history between the Jewish people and Christian beliefs remain problematic.

 

[PhantomX1313]

 

[The Kree]

Telling your wife she's going to get raped by a pack of wild niggers for wearing the wrong clothes is not a mistake, you fucking muppet.

 

[Maddocks]

interesting choice, I'm always down for more Mel movies. I just wonder who's going to be the super church and totally into god character. I hope it's croc,"nah shorty, God is devine."

 

[Dash_Riprock]

He's a loyal dog and you don't put out loyal dogs.

You do if they can't tell their ass from their elbow.

Nah, Snyder straight out doesn't give a shit. He's keep doing these movies for as long as they let him, partially because he just loves does it, partially because he sees himself as a savior to comic adaptations. Not kidding on the last bit either.

Great, as if I needed more reason to hate the man.

 

[broncobuster]

interesting choice, I'm always down for more Mel movies. I just wonder who's going to be the super church and totally into god character. I hope it's croc,"nah shorty, God is devine."

Deadshot has "I am the light. The way." written on several parts of his costume. So he's the best candidate.

 

[DJChuy]

Mel's a POS, but he's a very talented POS. I'm down for a Gibson directed SS especially since he was critical of comic book movies. I want to see him handle a project like this.

Also news to me we're getting SS2. Doesn't seem necessary, but I don't blame them since the first made money.

 

[NastyBook]

Harley better stay away from Croc and Deadshot.

"STAY OUT OF FUCKING ARKHAM! I'll let you stay in the hideout, but I don't want to commit crimes with you anymore!"

 

[PhantomX1313]

Here's the interview he gave at Oscars, he looks to have changed his view of cbm seems interested in directorship https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0gHzKlIjW4