You can't make an argument about sticking to a convention that yourself are not respecting when your flagship game is 900p/720p
That's a rather empirical measurement for such a definitive conclusion.
A Nintendo Switch has been taken apart
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You can't make an argument about sticking to a convention that yourself are not respecting when your flagship game is 900p/720p
That's a rather empirical measurement for such a definitive conclusion.
He played for 5-6 hours straight with a tablet-ish, and it was connected to a power source, you bet it's warm.
EDIT: i don't know what you're trying to say with the Manhattan benchmark but it barely looks better than a PS2 game thanks to more modern-ish effects and a higher res.
EDIT: i don't know what you're trying to say with the Manhattan benchmark but it barely looks better than a PS2 game thanks to more modern-ish effects and a higher res.
He said it was after 4 to 5 hours with the battery fully charged. It's in the NVC podcast from this week.
I just googled it, its nowhere near BOTW. Then there is the complex weather simulation, night day cycles, complex AI +++.
Elfotografoalocado
Banned
But many other games do experience such resolution bump... To the point where Zelda is an outlier so far. And the only games that are 720p both when in handheld and dock mode are all very far away in time.
Also, AC4 was 900p at launch on PS4, and 1080p with the day one patch. COD Ghosts was 720p.
Skittzo0413
Member
It would still be constantly charging, though I guess electronics typically don't get that hot when charging at 100%, so good point.
It would be interesting to see some hard data about temperatures/fan noise.
And that's why this new handheld mode is optional.
If a game can run in 1080p docked then it can user the lower clocked handheld mode for 720p and a better battery life.
If a game has troubles running at 1080p while docked and runs instead at 900p or even lower, the new boost mode is a God given for the handheld mode.
Anecdotal evidence: my phone runs much hotter while plugged in even for the most mundane tasks.
I'm sure we will soon, now that I think about it, he did say that when he pulled the switch off the dock, the battery was actually at 83% so it is lightly recharging the device, not the full below 50% charge power but still should add something to the device, didn't someone give us 12w usage when docked? too bad we don't know what X1's 768mhz would draw over 384mhz, it being 5.6w more I guess is possible, though the pixel C drew 8watts for the entire system during the Manhattan demo, but it was likely throttled since the CPU should be drawing around that alone.
The docked mode has more going on in Zelda than just a resolution bump probably, but the battery capacity while playing zelda is about 3 hours according to Nintendo and jose was able to get 2 hours and 40 minutes before he docked zelda, but he didn't let it run out which could have given him another 10-15 minutes, he didn't know at the time that Switch will save state when the battery dies. Really cool feature IMO
No he said it was charging and complained because if you play while it charges it takes forever. All in all it's normal that it was warm.
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
To adequately answer that question takes probing the full setup - i.e. the afore-mentioned CPU and a TX1 GPU. Since I don't have access to either a Switch or a Shield, I really cannot give an adequate answer.
Jaguars still have the better IPC and the twice-wider SIMD ALUs. That said, 28nm A53s run happily at 2GHz (with the appropriate heat dissipation), so for general purpose code it's not that hard for the A53s to stay within 1.6GHz jags, core per core. Or did you mean something else?
Skittzo0413
Member
I didn't say it worked against the credibility of Eurogamer, you're imagining that. I said the argument that clocks can't change because Eurogamer have seen docs with final clocks (which plenty of people used) is something that can't be used as an argument anymore. My point there is some of us said be careful assuming these truly are final when the doc itself specifically mentions "clocks to use at launch". There is no reason to say "clocks to use at launch" if those clocks are 100℅ final.
MightBeMagic
Member
I feel this is the biggest red herring. I think Nintendo fans would buy non nintendo games if they were of a similar quality to those of the other consoles, I know I would. The problem at the moment is that only Nintendo can put 100% into games there because it is in their interest for the console to do well.
To port a COD/Fifa/Battlefield/GTA you have to make sacrifices the publishers are unwilling to do, because you would cut the game down so much it would no longer be attractive to consumers, if Nintendo only swallowed their pride and had power parity, it wouldn't be an issue at all.
I feel we will forever be in this mediocrity spiral Nintendo is in, in regards to console sales, until they realise this. Up the power, reap the rewards.
You could argue that the switch has mediocre specs, however it does have a really good excuse in that it has to be a workable handheld in terms of battery and in terms of been a practical size. So the goal is to get the best bangs per buck out of it's form factor. You could argue that it needs to be 16nm and A72 but I think that may have ment abandoning work already done and would have delayed the switch further. Now if Nintendo had gone for a pure home console there would be no excuse for not going after the ps4/Xbox one this time round.
http://nintendotoday.com/nintendo-switch-ram-specs/ same memory bandwidth everyone thought 25.6GB/s but different chip than some people "identified"
No idea if there is embedded memory.
No idea if there is embedded memory.
Skittzo0413
Member
It looks like the exact same chip, just a slightly different serial code/printing layout.
Yeah, I was just pointing out it wasn't X1's memory chips, it is the same bandwidth but people are jumping the gun too much to protect their feelings or not to get angry or whatever else stops people from speculating.
lwilliams3
Member
Did anyone downloaded the picture before it was taken down.
which picture?
Skittzo0413
Member
I'm guessing he means the picture on Samsung's site which confirms it was the module used by the Switch.
lwilliams3
Member
Yeah. A liitle busy, so my messages are short.
I think the graphics in that game are overrated (I'm actually playing it right now). It looks better in videos and screenshots than when you actually are running around in the game's world yourself (too much pop-in).
What The Forest Taught Me
Member
What they were able to achieve with X with the unfortunate hardware-imposed limitations they had to work with is nothing short of impressive.
With switch they finally have hardware that can push a realistic style well, and they decided to do an anime style, it will be interesting to see what they do after xb2 because they've only been able to push 1 title a console generation for Nintendo, but this game is coming so early and the switch is so easy to develop for, I think they will get a second and even 3rd title out on switch.
Not a lot. nVidia ROPs already go through GPU L2, so they'd have to add to that, and that is not cheap area-wise.
What The Forest Taught Me
Member
I think they will too. And that X cliffhanger must be resolved!
Cow Mengde
Banned
Yeah, they need to return to the world of X.
Apparition
Member
Don't know if this has been mentioned yet but Nintendo's Japanese support site says the Switch supports UHS-I Class 1 cards (just like those licensed HORI cards).
"Q: What microSD cards could be used with the Switch?
A: Nintendo Switch can support microSD/microSDHC/microSDXC memory cards.
It also supports the UHS-I standard as well as UHS Speed Class 1."
--------------
On other news, the SD Association has just introduced the UHS-III standard which still utilizes the same layout as UHS-II cards.
"Q: What microSD cards could be used with the Switch?
A: Nintendo Switch can support microSD/microSDHC/microSDXC memory cards.
It also supports the UHS-I standard as well as UHS Speed Class 1."
--------------
On other news, the SD Association has just introduced the UHS-III standard which still utilizes the same layout as UHS-II cards.
Not completely correct on the past. I mean, that's kinda correct for Takahashi as a director, but that also applies to him before joining Nintendo although his role in Xenosaga III was important.
As far as Monolith goes, due to their peculiar structure they've usually been able to output 4-5 "full" games per gen, more if they collaborate with others.
Currently it's not clear how deep their role is with the new Zelda, but since they went as far as putting it in their homepage beside XB2 I believe a good amount of personnel was "lent" to the Zelda team and I'd consider it reasoning about the future.
Anyway, I'm not sure how heavy is the development of XB2, the trailer totally gave me an idea of a smaller project than X and even XB were, one which can surely leave room for another important project to be in development in parallel (hopefully X-2).
It remains to see if team #2 has some involvement in this or they're another variable to be considered: although the two PxZ games weren't comparable to the Xeno games, they have proven to be able to ouput good/great secondary projects (without Takahashi) too, like Disaster or BK (and unlike Soma Bringer). The development context and experience from X should give a nice boost too as you say.
tl;dr: I absolutely see Monolith realeasing two more games other than Zelda and XB2 by 2020, and three could easily happen since they always have with normal platforms (bad Wii U, bad).
Astral Dog
Member
I can't imagine XC2 being a smaller project/budget than Xenoblade or even X wich had ugly, simple cutscenes. Shorter? Maybe due to the massive increase in costs. But not worse.
Yeah. A liitle busy, so my messages are short.
Yeah would be interesting to see it. Because the table that article shows is 25GB/s per chip (64 bit bus).
Rogue Agent
Banned
So, would the Switch's support of UHS-II cards only be possible in a future hardware revision?
Depends if the pins are there or not in the current switch. I'm hoping they are, but just waiting for a firmware update to make use of (similar to how USB2.0 is only supported until a firmware upgrade for USB3.0)
Don't know if this has been mentioned yet but Nintendo's Japanese support site says the Switch supports UHS-I Class 1 cards (just like those licensed HORI cards).
"Q: What microSD cards could be used with the Switch?
A: Nintendo Switch can support microSD/microSDHC/microSDXC memory cards.
It also supports the UHS-I standard as well as UHS Speed Class 1."
--------------
On other news, the SD Association has just introduced the UHS-III standard which still utilizes the same layout as UHS-II cards.
UHS III looks sexy as hell, hope future iterations of Switch support higher uhs modes, even if its just uhs II to get even faster loading times.
Rogue Agent
Banned
Thank you. I hope the pins are there too.
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
Well, I'll state the obvious: not favourably CPU-wise, and favourably (but not by much) GPU-wise.
Nobody saved that?
DESTROYA
Member
Don't know if this has been mentioned yet but Nintendo's Japanese support site says the Switch supports UHS-I Class 1 cards (just like those licensed HORI cards).
"Q: What microSD cards could be used with the Switch?
A: Nintendo Switch can support microSD/microSDHC/microSDXC memory cards.
It also supports the UHS-I standard as well as UHS Speed Class 1."
--------------
On other news, the SD Association has just introduced the UHS-III standard which still utilizes the same layout as UHS-II cards.
I'm not familiar with these things so any recommendations of this type of card?
Higher capacity the better and would prefer one over 128GB's.
Smurfman256
Member
How well does that run on an Nvidia Shield TV? Just for shits and giggles. I realize that we're still about 20+ years (maybe even closer to 40, TBH. That is, however, assuming that TV manufacturers stop at 8K for consumer devices and keep higher resolutions for archival and professional use only since the Human eye has issues with even 4K at current TV sizes) from real-time ray-traced lighting, but I'd still like to see how this tiny little thing pumps it out.
LordOfChaos
Member
Bearing in mind the
1) Shield TV throttles a bit on combined load, but not to Switch clocks, see the Shield throttling tests somewhere in here.
2) The Switch is clocked at half the full Shield CPU speed, and 35-70% of the full GPU clock (docked/undocked)
Shield
A10
Shield
https://www.futuremark.com/hardware/mobile/NVIDIA+Shield+Android+TV/review
A10
https://www.futuremark.com/hardware/mobile/Apple+iPhone+7/review
So the short of it would be the A10 rolls even the Shield TVs CPU at full clocks, the Switch has little chance there. The Shield TV enjoys enough thermal overhead to still be beating the iPhone 7 on the GPU side, but at docked clocks the Switch would be close-ish, while undocked obviously it's around half of its full performance.
It's crazy that Apple just decided to get serious about building ARM cores and started consistently rolling everyone year over year, I guess that happens when you buy PA Semi and Intrinsity and actually keep the talent and manage it well. I think an Apple TV that kept up to date with iPhone chips and maybe with a heatsink and active cooling would be one beast of a microconsole, with more storage.
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
Sure. Funnily enough, that started life as an experiment in real-time ray-accelerator building - sparse octrees as an acceleration structure, built per frame, and ended up as a Tetris, which eventually got an OpenCL as well as network-distributed versions (it's hard to come by 8-core+ desktops outside the office, hopefully things will change come Ryzen). Code even got used in a public event intro, but most importantly my kids like playing it ; )
It may sound weird, but this was mostly coded on a dual-core Bobcat, before it got moved to big iron. So even though I haven't ran it on a Shield, I have an idea how it'd perform. On the bobcat, to get a playable fps (~12fps) I had to reduce the framebuffer to 128x128 and drop the AO ray count to 16 (per pixel). For comparison, the screengrabs show 64 AO rays and 256 AO rays (first 3 and second 3, respectively) per pixel. So a Shield CPU should hypothetically be able to run this at 256x256 at somewhat higher fps, but definitely not at 64 AO rays, and 256 is strictly GPGPU territory ; )
Skittzo0413
Member
Someone finally opened up a Joycon for those interested:
https://twitter.com/linkees/status/836579448518557698
https://twitter.com/linkees/status/836579448518557698
Don't know if this has been mentioned yet but Nintendo's Japanese support site says the Switch supports UHS-I Class 1 cards (just like those licensed HORI cards).
"Q: What microSD cards could be used with the Switch?
A: Nintendo Switch can support microSD/microSDHC/microSDXC memory cards.
It also supports the UHS-I standard as well as UHS Speed Class 1."
--------------
On other news, the SD Association has just introduced the UHS-III standard which still utilizes the same layout as UHS-II cards.
A bit sad it doesn't support UHS-II cards to make the console more future proof but oh well, USB-C wasn't expected either so we are still lucky
Shin Johnpv
Member
At least UHS-II is backwards compatible with UHS-I card slots at UHS-I speeds.
VegaShinra
Junior Member
Wrong thread.
Implying that the iPhone doesn't throttle as well outside of 2 minutes long benchmarks?
LordOfChaos
Member
Far less than the TX1, or any other (full clocked, the Switch clocks were obviously chosen to never throttle) high performance mobile ARM chip out there.
That's the 6S, can't find the 7 but it got even better on throttling.