No, and it's a good thing. This movie doesn't need that.
Logan |OT| Children of (X)Men (SPOILERS)
- Thread starter MMarston
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No, and it's a good thing. This movie doesn't need that.
Just watched this in IMAX. I don't mind that they changed X-23's origin quite a bit (while still keeping it quite similar), this movie was fantastic!
It's also funny how this trilogy(?) started off terrible with Origins and ended with a great movie. It's like they went in reverse lol
It's also funny how this trilogy(?) started off terrible with Origins and ended with a great movie. It's like they went in reverse lol
Still trying to wrap my head around it, but at the moment these thoughts come to mind:
-Didn't feel like the relationship between Laura and Logan was were it should've been when she dropped the "Daddy" line. I feel like it was getting there--then suddenly the jump to "Daddy", as if it were almost finished strengthening/developing their relationship, but jumped the gun too soon.
-X-24 gives the film a couple of great moments (Charle's death, when Logan first encounters him), but I can't help but feel like that space could've been occupied by another character or force that would've strengthen the narrative a lot more.
-I really like the tone of the film, and I think it fits Wolverine pretty well considering where the last film (The Wolverine) seemed to be heading.
-Caliban was great, it was well done how his situation from some sort of black comedy to desperation.
-Pierce could've been better. He had a great personality and presence, I thought. But he quickly loses agency in his role as an antagonist once he's sandwiched between X-24 and Dr. Rice. I guess Mangold figured that he couldn't take on Wolverine without a handicap on either end, and the X-24 fulfills an antagonist on somewhat even ground.
This movie is a fucking bummer, man. That final shot leaves you with a sense of desolation, and with that I think the movie is successful, despite its few flaws, as a sendoff and study of Wolverine. Also, I wouldn't mind too much that this is where Fox's X-Men story ends, the story that started in 2000. Of course it won't and that's fine, but if I had to choose an endpoint for this series, it would be here.
-Didn't feel like the relationship between Laura and Logan was were it should've been when she dropped the "Daddy" line. I feel like it was getting there--then suddenly the jump to "Daddy", as if it were almost finished strengthening/developing their relationship, but jumped the gun too soon.
-X-24 gives the film a couple of great moments (Charle's death, when Logan first encounters him), but I can't help but feel like that space could've been occupied by another character or force that would've strengthen the narrative a lot more.
-I really like the tone of the film, and I think it fits Wolverine pretty well considering where the last film (The Wolverine) seemed to be heading.
-Caliban was great, it was well done how his situation from some sort of black comedy to desperation.
-Pierce could've been better. He had a great personality and presence, I thought. But he quickly loses agency in his role as an antagonist once he's sandwiched between X-24 and Dr. Rice. I guess Mangold figured that he couldn't take on Wolverine without a handicap on either end, and the X-24 fulfills an antagonist on somewhat even ground.
This movie is a fucking bummer, man. That final shot leaves you with a sense of desolation, and with that I think the movie is successful, despite its few flaws, as a sendoff and study of Wolverine. Also, I wouldn't mind too much that this is where Fox's X-Men story ends, the story that started in 2000. Of course it won't and that's fine, but if I had to choose an endpoint for this series, it would be here.
Yeah that was nuts. They met like five days ago, she spent two days not speaking, he spent two days in a coma, and then they shared like one hundred seconds of conversation. Then she went and eulogized him by quoting from a movie they *didn't even watch together*?
LordOfLore
Banned
You know, Pierce had probably the worst week ever. First a nurse(that I think they implied he was together with?) frees all the kids, then his hero refuses to help him, then the kid keeps herself hidden when he finds them, then he's knocked out by her while trying to act all high and mighty, then most of his team gets killed and he loses the trail, then Caliban delays them and another few men are killed, then a few more die and he gets burn wounds from his prisoner blowing himself up and then finally his remaining team is killed, his boss gets his head shot and he himself is killed by the escaped kids.
Also yeah, Alpha Flight, Exiles and X-23 movies are being considered for after Deadpool 2, X-Force, New Mutants etc.
Also yeah, Alpha Flight, Exiles and X-23 movies are being considered for after Deadpool 2, X-Force, New Mutants etc.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I agree with all of these points, really. X-24 wasn't even a character to the point I was as confused as Charles was when he showed up and the "daddy" line felt completely unearned.
Isaac Otherworld
Member
I'm pretty sure you see medical charts of Laura saying they gave her adamantium plating on her skeleton and Wolverine says near the end of the movie that he's probably dying because "of the poison they put in me. In us. "
Good excuse to go see it again!
Just got back from watching it, really enjoyed it. A couple of guys in the theatre didn't though, as we were walking out I heard "That was the worst fucking movie I've seen in a long time."
The kids were the only real negative for me,Pierce's death just looked terrible and felt like a mutant children of the corn scene..I was also frustrated that I couldn't place them..
I'm guessing the aggressive kid that went nuts in the phone video and got the 1st shot on Pierce was Julian Keller (Hellion), no idea who plant girl was, as I was walking out I figured the girl that sent the leaves up in the air then the splinters into that dude was using wind powers, so I guess she was Sofia (Wind Dancer). Dude with the weird marks on his face/body might've been Josh Foley (Elixir)? I need to watch it again and pay more attention to names, specifically the ones Laura lists off.
The kids were the only real negative for me,Pierce's death just looked terrible and felt like a mutant children of the corn scene..I was also frustrated that I couldn't place them..
I'm guessing the aggressive kid that went nuts in the phone video and got the 1st shot on Pierce was Julian Keller (Hellion), no idea who plant girl was, as I was walking out I figured the girl that sent the leaves up in the air then the splinters into that dude was using wind powers, so I guess she was Sofia (Wind Dancer). Dude with the weird marks on his face/body might've been Josh Foley (Elixir)? I need to watch it again and pay more attention to names, specifically the ones Laura lists off.
b&jy77VjiKn$#F
Member
A lot of remarks in here regarding how the relationship between Logan and X23 is not well developed. I agree. Seeing the film again, however, i feel like it's rather intentional. At one point of the film, Laura shown some frustration when she realized that Logan wasn't going to be with her crossing the border. She wanted him to be her father figure, I guessed, but Logan didn't want "bad shit" to happen to her and therefore not wanting to bond.
So, when Logan bited the dusts, despite the lack of development between their relationship, Laura considered Logan as her father and let him know that before he finally died. That's my take of it. It might be bullshit, but I enjoyed the film better that way.
So, when Logan bited the dusts, despite the lack of development between their relationship, Laura considered Logan as her father and let him know that before he finally died. That's my take of it. It might be bullshit, but I enjoyed the film better that way.
I think the best part about their relationship is that it adds to the ambiguity of the final scene. She calls him dad as he slips into death and while they hold hands he says "So this is what it feels like." You don't know whether he means to have a bonding moment by letting someone in or the feeling of finally dying, that state of being he's delivered to so many before. I think that contrary to them holding hands he was talking about his own mortality; so while Laura really wanted that relationship she realizes that this man is something else. Or at least I like to think that because it makes the cross into an X less hokey and instead more powerful.
swearing-circle
Member
The last line harkens back to what Charles said imo. "this is what life feels like." can't remember the rest of the quote but it makes sense and it hurt me emotionally lol.
What was the deal with that? Is there a reference or call out I'm missing between Deadpool 2 and Firefly?
Morena Baccarin is in both?
It really wasn't that good. What a disappointment. It didn't need a longer runtime, it already felt too long with its slow pace and barebones plot. Stuff needed to happen in those 2 hours, not make it longer.
X24 was awful, the villain was on the brink of being shit and it lacked emotional beats or gravitas.
The reviews have overhyped this like crazy. It's not a bad movie at all but it's seriously not close to being great.
X24 was awful, the villain was on the brink of being shit and it lacked emotional beats or gravitas.
The reviews have overhyped this like crazy. It's not a bad movie at all but it's seriously not close to being great.
Cpt.Underpants
Member
I think it was the same words that the movie they were watching in the hotel
ArtHands
Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
She was reciting the paragraph from that old movie that she and Charles were watching in the room.
"A man has to be what he is, Joey. Can't break the mould. I tried it and it didn't work for me... Joey, there's no living with... with a killing. There's no going back from one. Right or wrong, it's a brand. A brand sticks. There's no going back. Now you run on home to your mother, and tell her... tell her everything's all right. And there aren't any more guns in the valley."
Broken Joystick
At least you can talk. Who are you?
Yeah this was by far the best film in the X-Men series. I cried.
My thoughts exactly. I wrote a very long post but have chosen not to send it, I dont want to shit on people loving the movie.
The main issue I had was the pacing. It was a series of highs and lows, that became repetative to the point where the ending had no impact at all, it was completely routine.
Also, people were laughing out loud at the end of the movie in my theatre, I also facepalmed. The intended emotional weight of this film did not hit its mark at all.
Maybe what I dislike the most is my own dissapointment. I really thought this was going to be special
my name is ed
Banned
Laura calling Logan daddy is perfectly in tune with her character and themes of the movie. She's a child with stunted emotional development who desperately wants a father figure. Even if you think that calling him daddy is awkward, consider that she knows he is her biological father and has had very few relationships with other people. As Logan is dying, she is not thinking oh I better not call him daddy I don't know if our relationship is thetr.
NealMcCauley
Member
I really liked the way the movie showed Charles and Laura's relationship. Nothing ever said (obviously) but you could tell they liked each other.
One moment that really got me was Charles being rolled out of the casino sobbing and saying "I'm so sorry" to everyone he passed.
Don't know if "Daddy" was completely earned, but that ending, culminating with the X, was a gut punch. The one kid clutching a Wolverine doll was a nice detail.
I kinda wish Schreiber was x-24 just as a callback to him saying "Nobody gets to kill you but me" in Origins.
One moment that really got me was Charles being rolled out of the casino sobbing and saying "I'm so sorry" to everyone he passed.
Don't know if "Daddy" was completely earned, but that ending, culminating with the X, was a gut punch. The one kid clutching a Wolverine doll was a nice detail.
I kinda wish Schreiber was x-24 just as a callback to him saying "Nobody gets to kill you but me" in Origins.
Schadenfreude
Member
Guys, Laura grew up reading X-Men comics and probably idolizing the people in them. Gabriela the nurse was also very aware of Laura's DNA source since she told Wolverine that Laura was his daughter. It stands to reason that during their escape Gabriela kept telling Laura all about how the heroic guy in the comics was her daddy and he was gonna help them both and things would be alright. It shows too since in the hotel she stares at the father/daughter mannequin set. The reason Laura acts so cold at the beginning isnt because she doesnt care about Logan, it's because the hero she's looked up to all this time is a disappointment to her. Dude is suicidal and is seemingly only helping out for money. Later in the movie once she sees Logan act like the father and hero she wanted all this time is when she finally calls him daddy. It's not like she's some stranger who grew attached to someone stupid quick.
Wait.
Wait wait wait ...
WARNING!
DUMB ASS THEORY INCOMING.
I've talked to some friends and some say the saw the exact same thing. We'll, not really at thing but might be an error or could be something "important".
X-24 gets a bullet to the head. He drops right next to Logan who gets impaled on a branch shortly before. In the next scene, we see Logan but no body next to him. X-24 is gone. Could he be out of view? Or ... could he be healed or is this just a small error?
In X-Men Origins, Wolverine caught a bullet to the head. Stryker essentialy pushed Logan's reset button. Now, Laura shoots X-24 in the head ... "killing" him. What if X-24 isn't dead ... but very much alive? Maybe he ran away? Having no memory of what he did. He still is a clone of Wolverine, albeit under control and extremely ferral (just like Logan was after X-2). He's Logan in his prime.
Now, the above is most likely a movie-error ... but I cant remember seeing X-24 after he got the side of his head blown off.
Wait wait wait ...
WARNING!
DUMB ASS THEORY INCOMING.
I've talked to some friends and some say the saw the exact same thing. We'll, not really at thing but might be an error or could be something "important".
X-24 gets a bullet to the head. He drops right next to Logan who gets impaled on a branch shortly before. In the next scene, we see Logan but no body next to him. X-24 is gone. Could he be out of view? Or ... could he be healed or is this just a small error?
In X-Men Origins, Wolverine caught a bullet to the head. Stryker essentialy pushed Logan's reset button. Now, Laura shoots X-24 in the head ... "killing" him. What if X-24 isn't dead ... but very much alive? Maybe he ran away? Having no memory of what he did. He still is a clone of Wolverine, albeit under control and extremely ferral (just like Logan was after X-2). He's Logan in his prime.
Now, the above is most likely a movie-error ... but I cant remember seeing X-24 after he got the side of his head blown off.
Hugh Jackman came to my theater last night and surprised each fan after they had their tickets ripped behind the door with hugs, handshakes, and pictures. We were wondering why the ticket line was taking so long, but this was such an incredible surprise. What a friendly guy he was. Very personable and thanked us for coming.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
X-24 is dead.
There's no superhero tomfoolery in the wings on this one. It's gone.
So far as Pierce goes: I really, really liked him. Or rather, I liked disliking him. I liked what a slimy, genial piece of shit he was. Made him one of the best X-Villains automatically. I don't know that I need him to be more than that, although they did shade him a little with the hero-worship/hero-killer stuff. The guy genuinely loved to show his heroes he was better than they were. It's not much, but it's enough.
There's no superhero tomfoolery in the wings on this one. It's gone.
So far as Pierce goes: I really, really liked him. Or rather, I liked disliking him. I liked what a slimy, genial piece of shit he was. Made him one of the best X-Villains automatically. I don't know that I need him to be more than that, although they did shade him a little with the hero-worship/hero-killer stuff. The guy genuinely loved to show his heroes he was better than they were. It's not much, but it's enough.
Oh right, I totally forgot about that! Nice catch.
Well put. I agree with this.
Also, when watching it, I had no idea that both/either of them were going to die.
Until we got to that stage of the movie, I was still somewhat hopeful after they defeat the bad guy, we'd see them sail off into the ocean on the Sunseeker, and they'd find solace away from the rest of the world, and that would be their send-off.
Until we got to that stage of the movie, I was still somewhat hopeful after they defeat the bad guy, we'd see them sail off into the ocean on the Sunseeker, and they'd find solace away from the rest of the world, and that would be their send-off.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
But that solace was "die of Alzheimer's and then brain exploding suicide"
This is, all things considered, the much better ending.
I agree that's obviously the intended result, but I disagree that Mangold got it to work the way he wanted. I could see that how Schadenfreude describes it is how they wanted it to go, but that sort of underplaying on Laura's part is a really, really tough thing to ask of a kid on their very first movie. And she tries, but in a lot of instances, it's just gonna get read as her either sulking, stewing, or staring.
I think she did a damn good job, and it got better when they let her talk. But that part of her character, the wanting to connect with her "dad" part, just got way too muted up until they needed it full blast
b&jy77VjiKn$#F
Member
This is how I feel as well, but personally I can get behind it.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Me too. And maybe it'll start to come out a little more on second viewing.
I also feel like the struggling to connect to prior continuities and the hoping that superhero storytelling cliches start leaking in around the end was kinda what Logan was railing against in the hotel room during Shane. The "Ice Cream for Bedwetters" speech seems to work on two levels
1) A humorous example of what a fucking grumpy dickhead Logan can be, shitting all over this girl's hopes for simple heroism until Charles tells him he's going overboard about the stories of him wearing yellow jammies.
2) a metatextual signal to the people in the audience who are still, somehow, by that point in the film, expecting superhero conventions to come in and make things a little bit better. "Maybe a quarter of it happened, and not like this." Movie's basically telling you flat out in that scene "We are abandoning the superhero comics at this point. That is not the story we are telling. You see what's on the TV screen? One of the saddest westerns that's ever made? That's the storytelling we're using as a template now."
I also feel like the struggling to connect to prior continuities and the hoping that superhero storytelling cliches start leaking in around the end was kinda what Logan was railing against in the hotel room during Shane. The "Ice Cream for Bedwetters" speech seems to work on two levels
1) A humorous example of what a fucking grumpy dickhead Logan can be, shitting all over this girl's hopes for simple heroism until Charles tells him he's going overboard about the stories of him wearing yellow jammies.
2) a metatextual signal to the people in the audience who are still, somehow, by that point in the film, expecting superhero conventions to come in and make things a little bit better. "Maybe a quarter of it happened, and not like this." Movie's basically telling you flat out in that scene "We are abandoning the superhero comics at this point. That is not the story we are telling. You see what's on the TV screen? One of the saddest westerns that's ever made? That's the storytelling we're using as a template now."
catashtrophe
Member
Thats great, hope the movie does very well in its opening weekend
I hope between this and Deadpool we get a trend of Fox pumping out R rated films that put the genre on its head, while Marvel's factory pumps out carbon copy fun and DC continues to throw stuff at the wall hoping it sticks.
I could see that balance maintaining the Comic Book movie bubble.
I could see that balance maintaining the Comic Book movie bubble.
How many properties outside of dead pool and wolverine does fox have that need to be rated R? How about just making good movies that fit the characters. If fox just starts making Rated R movies for everything doesn't it just become a gimmick ?
We discussed this early on in the thread, but basically it's safe to say that The Wolverine did still happen, but in a pretty alternate take. i.e. Yukio just shows up at the mansion asking for Logan who's all good instead of finding him in some backwater Canadian town being all mopey. Also maybe didn't get with Mariko that time around since he wasn't as mopey. And maybe in this one, the silver samurai wasn't a fucking giant robot.
What's important is that they know what the hell they're doing with that rating. The R can be great, but it is also so easy to shit the bed with it.
broncobuster
Banned
The R for Logan is crucial but to me what worked in Deadpool mostly would've worked as PG-13. It works better as R, obviously, but they shouldn't need to go R for the next main line X-Men...if you can call the least popular and successful movie main line.
I need to see R-rated Gambit blow up some heads with exploding cards.
Speaking of which, there was a hell of a lot of head stabbing in this movie.
Yeah, there's no major reason why The Wolverine still couldn't happen. Logan being mopey and alone after Jean's death played a part in his emotional throughline in that movie, but the rest of that story doesn't rely on it.
Speaking of which, there was a hell of a lot of head stabbing in this movie.
Yeah, there's no major reason why The Wolverine still couldn't happen. Logan being mopey and alone after Jean's death played a part in his emotional throughline in that movie, but the rest of that story doesn't rely on it.
LordOfLore
Banned
I'm guessing the canon after DOFP is X-Men 1 exactly as before>X-Men 2 probably exactly as before>Jean either dies and comes back under much better conditions or she just gets Phoenix powers at the end of X2>Logan goes to Japan with Yukio to find himself and help an old friend, 100% fine with Jean and Scott being a couple and all right>Has adventures with the team after coming back until one day Charles has a seizure...
I don't like the R rating because of on-screen claws through skulls, etc. What I like about the R-rating is that there seem to be fewer restrictions on creative, as well as a smaller budget which I'm sure contributes to the fewer restrictions.
When I was four I slept under a Wolverine comforter . Last night I saw a film where Wolverine was the main protagonist and spoke about being suicidal. That's crazy, and something I'm sure investors wouldn't risk having in a bigger budgeted PG-13 film.
broncobuster
Banned
I liked how it opens on Logan slicing and stabbing, and then lingers on all the bodies and limbs before he stumbles back in his limo to drive away. Think back to the X2 Mansion scene of Wolverine taking out Stryker's men and it's a "f yeah!" moment. Now in Logan most of the fights are messy and mean and fucked up.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
That was always one of the weirder things about the run-up to Deadpool: So many of his "biggest fans" clamoring hard for the R-rating seemed to kinda handwave the evidence that almost all of his best & most memorable stories were PG-13 at best.
That character doesn't need, and has never needed, to be rated R in order to work to its fullest potential.
But you got people acting like if Deadpool can't wear a wreath of intestines around his dick like a cockring while fucking a joke to death from behind, you're ruining him.
that seems about it to me too, although given that Supernova (or whatever it ends up being called) will be tackling the Dark Phoenix story, I'm guessing that will change up Jean's character in this timeline's version of X1 and 2.
After I woke up today, I was thinking about the movie and how some of the the character actions bugged me.
I know they're required for drama and proper movie stuff, but a pet peeve is when characters do questionable things for the sake of plot.
If Logan had listened to Gabriela at any point, everyone might have survived until Canada at least. The Texas guy wouldn't have clues, wouldn't have a tracker, and so forth. OK, I can sort of buy that through Logan being incredibly stubborn.
If the tracker had been willing to die to the sun / torture instead of feeding delayed information, everyone else might have survived until Canada at least. The Texas guy wouldn't have clues yet, since he somehow got the paper with the photograph in a later scene. I didn't see exactly how he picked it up. OK, I can buy that being tortured sucks. Even then, the tracker had to know that the Texas guy would kill him and everyone else anyway.
But more than anything else, Logan shows no hesitation to impale a wide variety of random dudes completely through the head with metal claws. Yet when the obvious evil villain leader who will track you to the ends of the earth and has an army at his back is literally unconscious on the ground at your mercy, and you're intending to dump his dead body, all you do is...kick him in the head and expect someone else to shoot him later? If Wolverine had just removed the guy's head at that point then again, everyone has a good chance of escaping to Canada. If he had shot the guy, or made the tracker shoot the guy immediately, same thing.
Now as to why Canada would possibly be safe once the border is crossed, I guess we'll have to find out in the future. I assume Canadians don't drink HFCS and the new school of mutants is waiting at the border with machine gun emplacements.
I know they're required for drama and proper movie stuff, but a pet peeve is when characters do questionable things for the sake of plot.
If Logan had listened to Gabriela at any point, everyone might have survived until Canada at least. The Texas guy wouldn't have clues, wouldn't have a tracker, and so forth. OK, I can sort of buy that through Logan being incredibly stubborn.
If the tracker had been willing to die to the sun / torture instead of feeding delayed information, everyone else might have survived until Canada at least. The Texas guy wouldn't have clues yet, since he somehow got the paper with the photograph in a later scene. I didn't see exactly how he picked it up. OK, I can buy that being tortured sucks. Even then, the tracker had to know that the Texas guy would kill him and everyone else anyway.
But more than anything else, Logan shows no hesitation to impale a wide variety of random dudes completely through the head with metal claws. Yet when the obvious evil villain leader who will track you to the ends of the earth and has an army at his back is literally unconscious on the ground at your mercy, and you're intending to dump his dead body, all you do is...kick him in the head and expect someone else to shoot him later? If Wolverine had just removed the guy's head at that point then again, everyone has a good chance of escaping to Canada. If he had shot the guy, or made the tracker shoot the guy immediately, same thing.
Now as to why Canada would possibly be safe once the border is crossed, I guess we'll have to find out in the future. I assume Canadians don't drink HFCS and the new school of mutants is waiting at the border with machine gun emplacements.
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