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The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild |OT2| It's 98 All Over Again

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No, the rental mechanic essentially encouraged/required grinding rupees so you can go through the game withoutb acktracking to the rental store constantly so you can enter dungeons without being gated. It was just a useless mechanic that became redudant anyway halfway through the game.

The other effect the rental mechanic had was that every dungeon was literally centered around one item because the game couldn't assume which other items you had with you. That means dungeons couldn't even utilise simple items like the bow or bombs making puzzle solving easier than ever before because the solution is always that one item coupled with wall merging which was at least novel.

BotW puzzle design isn't any simpler than past 3D Zelda games and that is simply because they give you every item out of the gate and can design everything around every item/rune as soon as you leave the plateau. Of course they are not hardcore puzzle difficulty (which is the case for every Zelda game) but they require basic logical thinking and item usage again. Big difference.
Uh, you definitely don't need to grind for rupees. You'd only have to grind if you wanted to straight up buy the items. You can just as easily play the game with rented items the whole way through. And backtracking? Is it it really difficult to activate the bird signs and warp to Link's house? And given how fast Link moves in ALBW since they sped him up from LttP, this seems like hardly an issue even if you did need to backtrack.

I'm not sure what you mean here. I recall the early dungeons having signs for what item you'd probably need but other items did come into play to create shortcuts or get to treasure and make things easier on you. Making the earlier items cheaper to rent meant they'd be of more use than other items, but those other items still had their uses.

Im not seeing what youre point is here? What big difference? BotW puzzles aren't drastically different in difficulty or longer than ALBW's either, nor do they require more logical thinking. Does it take a lot of thinking to say, light a bunch of torches and shift a room sideways a couple of items? Just seems like you're putting BotW puzzle design on a pedestal.
 
And I'm happy if they're left in the past or get their fat cut of contrieved item abilities and "search-little-key" puzzles. Which is essentially what the beasts are. I'd much rather see the effort to design unique dungeons and coming up with threadbare puzzle mechanics into designing a game world and ingame physics based puzzles, where those ingame physics are universally applicable throughouth the game world, rather than on rubbish, like rails placed in three locations of the overworld on which you can glide with an item, so you can reach a chest. I'd much rather have those unique bosses as part of the world, than of disconnected overly long puzzle sequences.

There's room for improvement for BotW, but regressing to the antiquated puzzle dungeoneering of the previous Zeldas is not it imo.

Absolutely. Some of the stuff in the shrines are amazing uses of the core physics power. But classic zelda items or new stuff could be used in unique ways too not just fake key items (spirit tracks comes to mind with using old items in awesome new ways) The large elaborate maze like structure of past dungeons and the addition of a new gameplay mechanic does not mean it has to go back to use item x on item y.

Now the introduction of new gameplay mechanics will throw a wrench into the entire do everything you want when you want. Personally I don't mind some boundaries, but I like being able to go anywhere on the map, keep that. What I don't like is that there isn't much of interest in the majority of places, activities or shrines that make use of something you may not have I don't view as a negative. It's exciting to think you will have a new power to use later, put a warp point right there so traversal back to it is not necessary. This allows the game to have a sense of progression but also keep its freedom.

I think we can all agree the gameplay mechanic changes in this game are all for the better. It's exactly what zelda needed. There are some things (weapon durability) that's some don't like but in general this total interactive world is amazing. I think the structure can use work.

I'm completely okay with those puzzles being short and disconnected sequences that take a backseat to what feels actually like a game world, rather than a more or less linear puzzle sequence blocked by item progression, serving as little more than a poorly masked excuse to lead you through more sequences of hour long search-keys-find-item-kill-boss sequences. That's been done to death by Zelda games and I feel it's antiquated.

I'm totally okay with BotW actually putting more effort into a freely traversable game world, rather than spending all dev effort on dungeons for a change. That's what TP did and I found it disappointing as a result. In that game it was particularily transparent that the only reason the overworld existed, was to connect puzzle sequences. Small wonder, when all dev effort goes into those that Hyrule field is the most barren stretch of grass imaginable. Hey, at least it had a conveniently placed rail to slide along with the asinine cog item to a heartcontainer in one or two places. Remember those couple of seconds from the TP reveal trailer? They suggested there'd be actual open wood to go through. What we rather got is shown in those couple of seconds. A path through the "wood" that's hardly more than 5-10m wide, because of course, the chosen one can't climb the small ridges lining this path leading them to the next puzzle segment. I'd even be happy without a single "dungeon", if they can manage to place the puzzles more "organically" (than shrines, divine beasts et.) in the overworld.

Disclaimer: I haven't played AlbW, but it sounds like I might like it. Only I haven't touched the 3DS in ages and are not planning to. Also I never really found the world of top down Zeldas particularily compelling, having started with OOT and MM. Even compared ot the most barren 3D Zeldas, those worlds were transparently excuses to connect dungeon sequences and puzzles rooted in the technical capabilities of days gone by.

Just to add to my post, everything you describe is so because zelda games were never open world games. Zelda games were extremely carefully crafted experiences strung together with just enough exploration to scratch that itch. But it was never a GTA, Ubisoft, style open world. This game is, and excels at it but at the expense of what made that classic Zelda formula so perfect to many of us.
 
I guess I've hit a glitch? I'm with a goron making my way up to Vah Rudania but at the end there's a cannon with nothing to fire at. Looking at guides shows the beast should be here but it's not even after reloading a save.

God, I got so frustrated at this part.
Turned out I forgot to shoot the beast with the earlier cannons.
 
All towers climbed
40 shrines
Master Sword obtained
Zero dungeons

Yes, I bumrushed the Master Sword. I guess I should actually get stamina containers now, but with a good supply of food you can get anywhere with the base meter.

I also did a nice puzzle that must've been a throwback to OoT (Gerudo area spoilers):
Having to shoot the sun to make a shrine appear reminded me a lot of shooting the rising sun to unlock the fire arrows in OoT.
 
What I love in this game is that most of these NPCs DO have something to say. Could be about themselves or their location or about you and it just feels right. In most other games these NPCs really don't say much meaningful things. The developer thought of so many things during development.
 
I'm pretty confident when I say no dungeon in Wind Waker is better than one mechanical beast in this game.

Bur otherwise, of course the dungeons in TP and SS are better than the divine beasts. They are awesome dungeons and basically the whole content of the game.

Well yah. WW has 1 and a half good dungeons. Dragon Roost and the first half of the Tower of the Gods.
 
In Zora's Domain I read a stone wall that is missing letters.

Something about a Zora Helm at some lake. Anyone know what lake this is?
Found it yesterday, it's
Lake Toto
. I got there by
swimming up the waterfalls on the Akkala side, the chest is in some half-sunken ruins
 
Horse talk
found the lord of the mountain and tamed him. So here I go trying to get to a stable to register him and I get distracted by a damn korok puzzle. I hop off do the puzzle and it just ran off and vanished. :(

Oh well I'll get him another night.
 
Horse talk
found the lord of the mountain and tamed him. So here I go trying to get to a stable to register him and I get distracted by a damn korok puzzle. I hop off do the puzzle and it just ran off and vanished. :(

Oh well I'll get him another night.

You can't register him. But the stable guy does give you a quite funny response if you try.
 
Horse talk
found the lord of the mountain and tamed him. So here I go trying to get to a stable to register him and I get distracted by a damn korok puzzle. I hop off do the puzzle and it just ran off and vanished. :(

Oh well I'll get him another night.

Great time to start utilizing the Leaf Stamp so you know where to come back in the future if you have to leave though. :p
 
How in the world are you supposed to *Shrine quest spoilers*
shoot an arrow through two stone rings at a time. It seems impossible.
 
How in the world are you supposed to *Shrine quest spoilers*
shoot an arrow through two stone rings at a time. It seems impossible.

While the arrow is in mid flight, use stasis on it and then use another arrow to change its direction.

You have to find the two right stone rings.

Try northwest of the area.
 
Uh, you definitely don't need to grind for rupees. You'd only have to grind if you wanted to straight up buy the items. You can just as easily play the game with rented items the whole way through. And backtracking? Is it it really difficult to activate the bird signs and warp to Link's house? And given how fast Link moves in ALBW since they sped him up from LttP, this seems like hardly an issue even if you did need to backtrack.

I'm not sure what you mean here. I recall the early dungeons having signs for what item you'd probably need but other items did come into play to create shortcuts or get to treasure and make things easier on you. Making the earlier items cheaper to rent meant they'd be of more use than other items, but those other items still had their uses.

Im not seeing what youre point is here? What big difference? BotW puzzles aren't drastically different in difficulty or longer than ALBW's either, nor do they require more logical thinking. Does it take a lot of thinking to say, light a bunch of torches and shift a room sideways a couple of items? Just seems like you're putting BotW puzzle design on a pedestal.

The game encourages grinding rupees so you don't have to deal with the rental mechanic and tediously go back from one place to another to enter one dungeon. It's pretty simple to understand why it's a useless mechanic and ultimately just encourages grinding rupees at the start of the game.

What is not to get here? Again pretty simple - yes, every dungeon entrance has big signs telling you which item you "probably" need! And you could sometimes bomb some walls for useless rupee rewards (as rupees become almost unspendable after buying all items) but puzzles had to be made around that one item because, as I explained before, the game could just not assume which items you had.

How can you not see the point here? It has nothing to do with "longer" puzzles, the puzzles were simply more one-dimensional and brain-dead easy because the solution will always be that one item. There is no need to put BotW on a pedestal, it's simply a fact that puzzles become more complex & varied with more item availability. Hell, they couldn't even utilise the bow & bombs in simple puzzle solving every dungeon! It's the easiest Zelda game ever made, even freaking Wind Waker is harder!
 
How in the world are you supposed to *Shrine quest spoilers*
shoot an arrow through two stone rings at a time. It seems impossible.

This stumped me for the longest time then I had the amazing idea to use a x3 bow! Surely
that can go through two holes with one arrow!

But nah, it's simpler than that, it was in the single place I hadn't looked.
 
I hope hard mode doesn't force you to collect all the korok seeds all over again. Also don't want to do the shrines all over again either.

It's almost certainly going to be a separate save file, so, yes.

That's what makes me reluctant to go and do a full-full exploration now.
 
Haha, rode my first deer and suddenly heard Kass in the distance, rode up to him an it turned out the quest was
to ride a deer on the platform in front of him :P
 
do you honestly even remember three dungeons from wind waker, twilight princess and skyword sword? I sure as hell don't
the are the epitome of stale, oldass zelda design, they needed to go.
Twilight Princess had Snowpeak, where you progressive opened up the dungeon by interacting with the yeti couple. Then there was the ruins level where you went through backwards and forwards with the automated statue. And city in the sky was some Spiderman shit. All 3 were phenomenal.

Skyward Sword had the Skyloft dungeon that was a meta block puzzle over all the room puzzles. It also had the timeship with the central time cube mechanic.

Wind Waker had the last two dungeons as buddy dungeons, where you had to coordinate your partner's ability to make it through.

These games all had really excellent, clever, memorable, and original dungeons. All seven I listed are probably better than the Divine Beasts.

I actually like the beasts a lot. They were different, and had a cool central mechanic. They were also pretty short and way too similar. I think the game could have benefitted by having some different design between them or one awesome traditional dungeon on top of them. Overall, they work here because they're part of a much bigger package.

So I guess I'm saying I like them, but the previous 3d Zeldas had some pretty baller dungeons.
 
Like even throwing in a miniboss, some more enemies, and better bosses would improve things ten-fold so much it wouldn't be funny. Like imagine if instead of
Whateverblight Ganon as every single boss, Ganon deployed some of his "top agents" as the Beast protectors; have a Gohma in one, some Iron Knuckles in one
, etc.

The
approaches
sort of feel like that, but I get your point. I do feel the less-than-stellar boss battles are a result of the design choice of not having dungeon-items, which otherwise works in the game's favor.

Still, with so few boss battles to plan, they could have built each of them around one of the powers: a magnet-based battle, a bombs-based battle, a stasis-based battle and a cryonis-based battle. Which... I guess there are some elements there.

And I realise I'm basically asking for the same old same old. But I've always loved the 3D Zelda Boss battles, especially those in TP and SS. This is one area where a big rethink wasn't in order.

I will say that when you're inside of them that the surrounding exterior environments have been downright incredible.

Yeah, the design and puzzles are really cool. Just wish there were more, or they were a bit bigger. Here's hoping the DLC-dungeon will be epic.
 
I couldn't take it anymore. The response to this game has been overwhelming and I just had to get on the train.

Just picked up my Switch + BotW and waiting to get home.

This is also my first Zelda game and Nintendo console. Can't wait to get involved.

Thanks for informing my impulse purchase GAF!

congrats! few tips:

turn on pro hud straightaway
play smart, don't just go thru the motions - especially battle
follow the main quest till you fully unlock your slate
go nuts
 
Twilight Princess had Snowpeak, where you progressive opened up the dungeon by interacting with the yeti couple. Then there was the ruins level where you went through backwards and forwards with the automated statue. And city in the sky was some Spiderman shit. All 3 were phenomenal.

Skyward Sword had the Skyloft dungeon that was a meta block puzzle over all the room puzzles. It also had the timeship with the central time cube mechanic.

Wind Waker had the last two dungeons as buddy dungeons, where you had to coordinate your partner's ability to make it through.

These games all had really excellent, clever, memorable, and original dungeons. All seven I listed are probably better than the Divine Beasts.

I actually like the beasts a lot. They were different, and had a cool central mechanic. They were also pretty short and way too similar. I think the game could have benefitted by having some different design between them or one awesome traditional dungeon on top of them. Overall, they work here because they're part of a much bigger package.

So I guess I'm saying I like them, but the previous 3d Zeldas had some pretty baller dungeons.

Pretty much this, you can extend this to all the 3D zeldas. The core thing binding them all together is that they had unique gameplay mechanics and new concepts. Where BOTW takes the same thing you have done over and over and mix it up a bit. It's a shame cause what you can do in BOTW is awesome but they got to restrictive with the creative process and stopped at just a few ideas rather than creat a bunch of cool new mechanics.
 
If your at end game then most of the side quests that you skipped are most likely useless.

Most of them give you
rupees
which you don't need, and which you can get easier by grinding
things like snow bowling.

Do them for the fun of it I guess.
 
Last night was productive. The amiibo 24hr thing is encouraging me to play at least once a day now until I get all the gear anyway.

Some really basic beginner stuff I have learned:
- When you find your first horse, don't immediately ride it halfway across the map and skip all the loot/goodies you could be finding along the way to your destination.
- There are some things like mushrooms which are relatively worthless when you sell them but are found so commonly that at least early on, an easy way to make rupees.
- A "modest" test of strength isn't really "modest".
- Buying more armor and upgrading it makes a big difference in how quickly you die.

Other than that, the early main quests which have you bouncing back and forth between the villages are a bit blah...I have done about ~15 shrines and I have come across larger ones but still haven't found any where what you do in one room impacts other or previous rooms. They all seem rather linear so far. Found some good weapons and rupee chests though.
 
Aww yeah just beat Hyrule Castle. Still haven't completed any of the main dungeons nor have I picked up the Master Sword yet.

Was suuuuper nervous during the last fight because my last shield broke and I was down to a single Great Flameblade which I'm positive was on the brink of breaking. I was actually considering giving up because that part was SO HARD to damage, particularly without a shield and I didn't think my last sword would pull through.
 
The game encourages grinding rupees so you don't have to deal with the rental mechanic and tediously go back from one place to another to enter one dungeon. It's pretty simple to understand why it's a useless mechanic and ultimately just encourages grinding rupees at the start of the game.

What is not to get here? Again pretty simple - yes, every dungeon entrance has big signs telling you which item you "probably" need! And you could sometimes bomb some walls for useless rupee rewards (as rupees become almost unspendable after buying all items) but puzzles had to be made around that one item because, as I explained before, the game could just not assume which items you had.

How can you not see the point here? It has nothing to do with "longer" puzzles, the puzzles were simply more one-dimensional and brain-dead easy because the solution will always be that one item. There is no need to put BotW on a pedestal, it's simply a fact that puzzles become more complex & varied with more item availability. Hell, they couldn't even utilise the bow & bombs in simple puzzle solving every dungeon! It's the easiest Zelda game ever made, even freaking Wind Waker is harder!
The game encourages you not to die so you don't have to deal with the rental mechanic. That you want to buy them is an alternative. I'm not sure what is so tedious about warping to fast travel points. Do you find warping to shrines and towers and having to run or glide to a stable to be tedious? Just seems like you're making a big deal about nothing

If theyre such useless rupees, why are you complaining about grinding? You're not making a lot of sense here.

I guess just didn't find the puzzles any more easier than they are in BotW. *shrugs*
 
Like imagine if instead of
Whateverblight Ganon as every single boss, Ganon deployed some of his "top agents" as the Beast protectors; have a Gohma in one, some Iron Knuckles in one
, etc.

With the setup of
the dead Champions
, they had a perfect opportunity to
make corrupted versions of their spirits the boss battles - there's so much they could do with the abilities shown by Gorons, Zoras and Rito in the series in the context of engaging one-on-one duel bosses; and Urbosa would be a blank slate in terms of being able to take after the variety of Gerudo-affiliated fighting styles seen in the series.
 
The game encourages you not to die so you don't have to deal with the rental mechanic. That you want to buy them is an alternative. I'm not sure what is so tedious about warping to fast travel points. Do you find warping to shrines and towers and having to run or glide to a stable to be tedious? Just seems like you're making a big deal about nothing

If theyre such useless rupees, why are you complaining about grinding? You're not making a lot of sense here.

I guess just didn't find the puzzles any more easier than they are in BotW. *shrugs*

The game encouraged you to grind rupees to not deal with the mechanic anymore early in the game and let you freely explore. It is tedious gating of the worst kind, how is that hard to understand?

The difference in BotW is you are not required to do anything because nothing is gated. It is my choice - big difference! In ALBW you simply cannot proceed.

And rupees becoming useless in that game is a simple fact as halfway through the game (no matter if you grind rupees or not) you have attained every weapon anyway and can't spend them anywhere else. But that has been a problem with every Zelda game before BotW so it's only a side fact anyway.
 
I'm probably fucking stupid, but I'm already stuck 5 minutes after getting into Vah Ruta. I'm upstairs and I see
two wheel-thingies, one moving and one not. On the wheel that isn't moving is one of those balls that needs to rest on top of that pedestal thing. I tried Statis to force it upwards, but gravity makes it fall down again. My first thought was I have to rotate that wheel, so that the ball can rest on top of it, but that doesn't seem to be an option.
 
But can you afford it?

:p

Yep.

I'm probably fucking stupid, but I'm already stuck 5 minutes after getting into Vah Ruta. I'm upstairs and I see
two wheel-thingies, one moving and one not. On the wheel that isn't moving is one of those balls that needs to rest on top of that pedestal thing. I tried Statis to force it upwards, but gravity makes it fall down again. My first thought was I have to rotate that wheel, so that the ball can rest on top of it, but that doesn't seem to be an option.

Do you have the map? If not, get the map.

If you do have the map, look very closely at the whole screen.
 
I'm probably fucking stupid, but I'm already stuck 5 minutes after getting into Vah Ruta. I'm upstairs and I see
two wheel-thingies, one moving and one not. On the wheel that isn't moving is one of those balls that needs to rest on top of that pedestal thing. I tried Statis to force it upwards, but gravity makes it fall down again. My first thought was I have to rotate that wheel, so that the ball can rest on top of it, but that doesn't seem to be an option.

Play with the trunk a bit
 
This is sold by the monster store guy, right? How do you get him to offer it?

I think the unlock condition is clearing all dungeons.

Aww yeah just beat Hyrule Castle. Still haven't completed any of the main dungeons nor have I picked up the Master Sword yet.

Was suuuuper nervous during the last fight because my last shield broke and I was down to a single Great Flameblade which I'm positive was on the brink of breaking. I was actually considering giving up because that part was SO HARD to damage, particularly without a shield and I didn't think my last sword would pull through.

Nice job. End boss is way more satisfying when you haven't cleared all the dungeons.
 
The game encouraged you to grind rupees to not deal with the mechanic anymore early in the game and let you freely explore. It is tedious gating of the worst kind, how is that hard to understand?

The difference in BotW is you are not required to do anything because nothing is gated. It is my choice - big difference! In ALBW you simply cannot proceed.

And rupees becoming useless in that game is a simple fact as halfway through the game (no matter if you grind rupees or not) you have attained every weapon anyway and can't spend them anywhere else.
Because you don't need to do that. That you grinded is on you. Do you absolutely need to grind for materials and rupees to pay off the Great Fairy unlocks and armor upgrades? No, not really. You could just play better in BotW. I get it, you want a safety net but it is not necessary.

You mean like how you're not really gated by rupee grinding in ALBW? You're going all over the place in your post dude.
 
pro hud? slate?
Pro HUD: It means that the game only shows your hearts and don't show the minimap, temperature and noise indicators and also the weather forecast and clock

I don't recommend to activate it on your first run because all that info is useful at least at the beggining when you are learning the mechanics.

Slate: It's the tablet like thing that Link carries.

My advice would be to just have fun and explore what you want =3
 
If your at end game then most of the side quests that you skipped are most likely useless.

Most of them give you
rupees
which you don't need, and which you can get easier by grinding
things like snow bowling.

Do them for the fun of it I guess.

Snow bowling?
 
Ran into an issue where the game wouldn't let me scan amiibos for the past 3 days. Turns out that if you leave the game running, instead of closing it, it doesn't recognize that the internal clock has passed midnight.

Closed out the game and restarted it. Fixed the issue for me. Now, to keep my fingers crossed that the Zelda amiibos drop those hot loots!
 
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