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[Dremorak]

Curly/fluffy/wispy hair is incredibly difficult to render in game and will continue to be for a while longer unfortunately OP. Its the same reason why it took so long to get a main character in an animated movie with that kind of hair:

TBH even here it still looks odd, still too even and perfect.

I think only recently we have been able to get close with prerendered stuff:

Also, yes. More than just white people, I think devs have no idea how hair works lol. Characters are based off reference photos either from an existing in-house database or google search. If they don't have a photo of someone with that hairstyle then its not going to end up ingame.

 

[Pompadour]

I always figured white or Asian hairstyles would be generally harder to do in a realistic way. Like the hardest hair to do, I'd think, is completely straight, long hair that isn't styled or tied back. Any sort of style that can put the follicles into segments (without looking like Ken in SFV's banana hair) seems like it would fare better than hair where the natural expectation that every strand can move independently.

So it's probably just a low effort issue.

 

[Lime]

Wouldn't be surprised to find out that the limited variety is that way because of hierarchical resistance to proper representation. One thing is at least clear, someone is not telling its team to create more content of this kind. Does that person know? Does that person want to know? Does that person care?

Fairly sure they don't.

The weird thing is that Bioware is very much in the forefront in terms of marketing and branding themselves for being progressive, diverse, and inclusive. Yet they occasionally fluster and fail when it comes to this issue with a lot of warts and failures.

• Scott Ryder and Sarah Ryder are marketed as a white guy and a white girl
• Sheploo as the front guy throughout ME1-2 and in ME3 with FemShep being an afterthought and backside covers in ME3.
• Shepard is dominantly animated via the male animation skeleton resulting in weird scenes
• Most of the female party members and side-kicks have been white women with Miranda, Jack, Leliana, Aveline, and now Cora.
• Female animation in DA:I was like a gorilla
• Hair options have been atrocious throughout all of their games
• A number of other things that I won't go into in this thread

Bioware is doing good and I admire the stuff that they do a lot on so many fronts, but they also do falter at times. Perhaps this indicates a structural issue like you're saying, Kowalski.

 

[Nere]

Why is it that OP complains only for hair of black people and the title says people of color? Are black people the only people of color?

 

[The Futurist]

Why is it that OP complains only for hair of black people and the title says people of color? Are black people the only people of color?

People of color is most typically used when referring to black people.

Hair in general is bad in games.

I tried to create a Mii on my switch the other day. Terrible hair choices.

 

[Xist2inspire]

As someone who just recently started growing my hair out more often (and catches flak from my parents every time I do), I kinda find it funny that whenever people bring up "more black hair options," they always post whatever the current trendy style is, or just straight-up natural hair. Like, I understand and agree with the sentiment, but is that really any different from the current "bald, dreads, or cornrows" status quo, or past stereotypes like "every 70s black person has an afro" or "every late 80s-to-mid-90s black guy has either the Bobby Brown cut or some semblance of a hi-top fade"?

Wouldn't it be easier to start off arguing for the basic things, like decent fades, waves, and other low-cut styles for men, or the many straight hair styles (of any length) that women of color use? Those seem like they would be easier to program, and thus harder to handwave away as "curly hair is hard, man" to keep the status quo. Not to mention the likelihood of those looks going out of style (like cornrows) isn't nearly as high.

 

[Nosgotham]

I'm white and I've never seen a proper hair cut like mine either. It's always the same stick bullshit. They go with what's easiest and that puffy hair look you're talking about probably take a too much time, money, effort to have as an option honestly.

 

[Zaru]

Kind off subject but it's the reason why a lot of black people are in the music industry (hip hop), and sports, because to them they see that as a successful career since they can identify with people that looks like them being successful. If the IT world or gaming world show openness to blacks, they will come and you can have a healthy industry with endless possibilities for everyone.

That's a weird comparison to be honest. People who are successful in sports and music are highly visible. In comparison, game developers are generally in the background, barring controversies. It's not a job with high social status either, and the dream of making it "big" in sports and music is fundamentally different from wanting to be a part of making games.

 

[Forceatowulf]

Yeah, I'm super disappointed in the hair options in ME:A. A flood of hair styles for people with straight hair and literally ONE option that looks distinctly afro-centric, which btw, is already in use by one of your squadmates. How does this happen in 2017, man?

 

[Doran902]

I'm kind of annoyed that you are blaming white game developers in the title like you have a list of every single person who worked on the hair options in this game.

 

[PSqueak]

Why is it that OP complains only for hair of black people and the title says people of color? Are black people the only people of color?

People of color as a label for "not white" is something recent, it used to refer exclusively to black people a decade or so ago.

 

[btags]

While it is not a customizable option, del's hair in gears 4 is a thing of beauty and whenever I play as him I stop to admire it.

 

[Nottle]

I always figured white or Asian hairstyles would be generally harder to do in a realistic way. Like the hardest hair to do, I'd think, is completely straight, long hair that isn't styled or tied back. Any sort of style that can put the follicles into segments (without looking like Ken in SFV's banana hair) seems like it would fare better than hair where the natural expectation that every strand can move independently.

So it's probably just a low effort issue.

It's really strange when a character gets their hair underwater or when they are doing something like hanging upside down and their hair which should be very loose and moveable just sits in a styled clump framing their face.

Unless the non-black hair is cut super short the Black hair would be much easier to hand wave as static. Really it's just that they don't want to implement many hairstyles.

Hair sucks in games unless you are talking about the main character of something who may have more effort put into their design. It's why you see so many characters with short hair, hats, or pony tails.

As a white dude my hair is this really thick slightly curled mass of brown and somehow I never feel like I find hair that fits me.

I look I have hair that you would draw on a character like Noa Bright or Amuro Rey from the original Gundam. It's not extremely short, it's not really styled, it doesn't flow, it doesn't really spike out, it doesn't have any sort of sheen to it.

 

[Forceatowulf]

I don't think it's a matter of hard, they probably just don't care.

These can't possibly be harder to recreate than the hairstyles in the video.

I mean really. How the fuck is this difficult? Answer: It isn't.

I realized a long time ago a lot of race issues come down to pure, unadulterated, Grade-A, disintetest and unconcern. Not malice. Not agression. Unconcern.

A lot of people in positions of influence just don't.. care.

 

[Infinite]

Why is it that OP complains only for hair of black people and the title says people of color? Are black people the only people of color?

because if you read it OP is specifically talking about black hairstyle options

 

[Samara]

Why is it that OP complains only for hair of black people and the title says people of color? Are black people the only people of color?

No. People of color can be asian, latinos or aa.
The difference is that black people are the only race with that type of hair. For exemple people of Asian descent can't have curly/coily hair.

 

[Zakalwe]

I'm fine with this, but why are we talking about some dudes fucking twitter like it's relevant to hair in character creators?

You're right, got caught up. Apologies.

 

[TalonJH]

That's a weird comparison to be honest. People who are successful in sports and music are highly visible. In comparison, game developers are generally in the background, barring controversies. It's not a job with high social status either, and the dream of making it "big" in sports and music is fundamentally different from wanting to be a part of making games.

It's a weird comparison but not exactly false. For a lot of black kids, those are the two successful jobs that seem welcoming/obtainable even though they are probably the exact opposite just based on numbers. It's half the reason minorities argue for representation. Showing the youth you can do anything if you work for it. It's not as obvious when you alway consume media where your race is depicted as gangbanger #2 or basketball star.

I volunteer teach graphic design and Web development at public libraries in lower income areas in my city and that's what a lot of is.

While it is not a customizable option, del's hair in gears 4 is a thing of beauty and whenever I play as him I stop to admire it.

As a side note, I really just like all the characters in Gear 4. Design and personality at least in the GoW art style.

 

[krumble]

I'm white and custom hair choices in games never look anything like mine either.

Me either.. although mii maker of all things did!

 

[shoreu]

Black people have 6cuts to devs, bald, even all over, shitty/goofy fro, struggle braids, sorry attempt at dreads, poorly done fade.

 

[karasu]

I agree. I tweeted @bioware about this yesterday. Like afros went out in 1978 or so. We've had plenty of hairstyles since then.

 

[OléGunner]

Black hair options are almost always awful, which is areal bummer.

Reading this thread, I've learnt doing different/diverse hair styles is technologically challenging for devs to achieve but I'd always like to see an improvement.

Rendering hair is really hard in general, regardless of how different hair types move and react to light. But @ OP - I though the Character Del in Gears 4 looked great. The hair looks utterly fantastic.

This is really well done!

 

[BlackClouds]

No. People of color can be asian, latinos or aa.
The difference is that black people are the only race with that type of hair. For exemple people of Asian descent can't have curly/coily hair.

 

[LionPride]

Can I just get a character creator that allows me to have a smooth fade?

 

[ChanMan]

It is sad but we really need to stop expecting people to accurately represent us well, in the end we are just going to have to do it ourselves.

 

[Darryl M R]

A good amount of deflection going on in this thread.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYOQgKMCUAw

It's not that hard.

And stop giving the option of cornrows with zero hang time.

 

[Lime]

Black hair options are almost always awful, which is areal bummer.

Reading this thread, I've learnt doing different/diverse hair styles is technologically challenging for devs to achieve but I'd always like to see an improvement.

It actually isn't and it's mostly a matter of workload priorities. It's not like there's an inherent resistance to curly hair in game development tools.

If you're interested in it, there's an article on the modelling aspect of diverse hair.

 

[TalonJH]

Black people have 6cuts to devs, bald, even all over, shitty/goofy fro, struggle braids, sorry attempt at dreads, poorly done fade.

Lol, I feel like you rarely see an even all over and fade in the same character creator.

 

[bobbychalkers]

For black hair, its always a perfectly symmetrical afro, or cornrows with no hangtime. Sometimes you get horribly done dreads.

Rendering hair is really hard in general, regardless of how different hair types move and react to light. But @ OP - I though the Character Del in Gears 4 looked great. The hair looks utterly fantastic.

This looks great, first time I've seen this hairstyle outside of a sports game.

 

[Comet]

Great post OP. My brother and I (both fair-skinned Mexicans if that means anything here) for whatever reason always loved making bad-ass black characters in role playing games. I can think of going all the way back to Morrowind 15 years ago and rocking some impressive RedGuards. Anyway, it kind of became our inside joke over the years and in that process we've realized how limited options are for our black brothers. The worst or most cringe-worthy thing is when the white guy gets 15-20 different options and then they transpose those options on to a black/hispanic/asian character and it looks awful.

 

[NoKisum]

It's especially hard going just from Horizon



to this:

Whoa shit. I haven't given Horizon any thought, but now you got my full attention. This is fucking beautiful. This is what I want out of a character creator. These guys get it.

 

[Forceatowulf]

For exemple people of Asian descent can't have curly/coily hair.

I can assure you this is not accurate. From both consuming a bunch of Asian media and personal real life observation.

 

[wandering]

No. People of color can be asian, latinos or aa.
The difference is that black people are the only race with that type of hair. For exemple people of Asian descent can't have curly/coily hair.

Be careful with that. Besides the fact that there's a lot of diversity in Asia, even if you're just talking about East Asian people it is in fact possible for them to naturally have curly hair.

 

[Soleil rouge]

Pacific Islanders and a few others have thick, naturally curly/wavy hair.

Also, totally disagree that there is a wealth of options for non-Black minorities. Not even close.

 

[The Futurist]

I can assure you this is not accurate. From both consuming a bunch of Asian media and personal real life observation.

Can't is not correct, but asian hair is predominantly straight.

Source: I am an asian.

Obviously it's not a hard rule and their is always some random mixture somewhere in the bloodline that gives that one asian person non standard asian person hair, but for the most part, it's straight.

 

[Calm Mind]

I was so happy to see Nintendo put so many PoC in BotW.

 

[LionPride]

I agree. I tweeted @bioware about this yesterday. Like afros went out in 1978 or so. We've had plenty of hairstyles since then.

Afros still a thing, but the only hairstyle I can have in a game is an Afro, Cornrows, or the Caeser. Fuckin hell

 

[MistakenMobius]

Can't is not correct, but asian hair is predominantly straight.

Source: I am an asian.

Obviously it's not a hard rule and their is always some random mixture somewhere in the bloodline that gives that one asian person non standard asian person hair, but for the most part, it's straight.

Lol have you even been to Turkey? Anywhere in Central Asia?

 

[Illucio]

Even most white people hairstyles in games suck. Hell most of the time it's Japanese hair styles that looks weird on everyone.

 

[TalonJH]

Whoa shit. I haven't given Horizon any thought, but now you got my full attention. This is fucking beautiful. This is what I want out of a character creator. These guys get it.

The funny thing is those are just NPCs that you spend maybe 2-5 dialogue with. HZD's diversity and attention to detail is done amazingly well and it's a mostly white dev team in the Netherlands. They deserve a little praise for their work.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

I was so happy to see Nintendo put so many PoC in BotW.

Yo I was actually really surprised. That game has a lot of diversity in it vs what I was expexting.

 

[The Futurist]

Lol have you even been to Turkey? Anywhere in Central Asia?

Today I learned that Turkey is in Asia.

A country that is trying to join the European Union is now considered Asian.

Sure, if you want to throw the middle east technically into asia as well.

I'm pretty sure you and most other people understood that I was talking about.

Pretty much the border of Afghanistan/Pakistan and to the east.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

I mean really. How the fuck is this difficult? Answer: It isn't.

I realized a long time ago a lot of race issues come down to pure, unadulterated, Grade-A, disintetest and unconcern. Not malice. Not agression. Unconcern.

A lot of people in positions of influence just don't.. care.

This really is the answer. Bunch of White game devs aren't taking the time to think about "What about Black hair".

Now I'm just happy if I can set a wide nose and don't have to google search which sliders will give an accurate representation of dark skin without looking either jet black to not black at all. (I'm looking at you, Bloodborne)

 

[zebez]

This thread is full of racist aggression against white people. Stop blaming "white people" for the problem, it's not a matter of race. Making any kind of hair look good in computer graphics is hard.

 

[Barzul]

Horizon: Zero Dawn did it pretty well and I think majority of the devs are white. I saw plenty of afros, iirc.

Yup they definitely did. NPC's were really varied much more so than I expected tbh.

 

[jrcbandit]

Why is it that OP complains only for hair of black people and the title says people of color? Are black people the only people of color?

I thought we were finally past using this silly term instead of black people. Because guess what, even white is a color and of course there are a diversity of races/colors other than black when talking about non white.

Good character and hair animation is difficult so most developers put a minimum of effort into it when the player is allowed to design the character, aside from a few amazing character editors in MMORPGs.

 

[Enzom21]

This thread is full of racist aggression against white people. Stop blaming "white people" for the problem, it's not a matter of race. Making any kind of hair look good in computer graphics is hard.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

This thread is full of racist aggression against white people. Stop blaming "white people" for the problem, it's not a matter of race. Making any kind of hair look good in computer graphics is hard.

I'm sure if you got a predominantly black dev team to make a character creator I could get a fucking fade lol. The easiest hair style to render.

I don't think it's an aggression to note that a predominantly white development team may not sit and go "what black hair styles should we include?" when they plan out their work flow.

That is blaming in probably the loosest sense of the word.

 

[Rickenslacker]

I kind of hate hair options in games in general. I can't even get a simple ponytail a lot of the time, or when I do it's fully tied back with no bangs. Then there are the games with customizable characters as well as clothing/equipment options. Does the game have long hair options and hats? Well now every time you wear a hat your hair's been temporarily clean cut. Ugh.

 

[NoKisum]

The funny thing is those are just NPCs that you spend maybe 2-5 dialogue with. HZD's diversity and attention to detail is done amazingly well and it's a mostly white dev team in the Netherlands. They deserve a little praise for their work.

NPCs? Dang. Considering the nature of the thread, I thought Horizon had some character creator that I had simply ignored since I didn't really follow its media outside of its reveal. If I could give Aloy the type of look as the girl in the first pic, I'd be all in.