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[chrono01]

I will try but someone might do a better job.

1) I'm not sure they ever mention WHERE they were made in the original Nier. Humans created them though.

2) Killing them all right as they were so close to victory was precisely the point. Every time one side is close to victory, some shit happens so that victory is prevented. The machine network and androids (I think. It might just be the network behind everything) want the war to continue endlessly because they were all programmed to fight. Without a war to fight they'll lose their reason for even existing and wouldn't know what to even do with their lives.

3) Yes the ark was created to gather all the memories of the machines that wanted fuck all to do with the endless war and send them into space.

Stahp. I have that shit memorized

1- According to Grimoire Nier, which is always an important reading if you haven't done so already, androids were created in 2032 to assist the Replicant System since humans wouldn't be around to manage it. It does not say when or how they were created, though.

2 - As the game said, YoRHa was never meant to win the war, just to continue this war of attrition as long as possible. If they did win, that would mean that the "humans" in the moon, which do not exist, would need to reveal themselves. Humans in that world are treated as divine beings by the androids; exposing that the humans are dead for millennia would destroy the androids' morale.

The people that created YoRHa, and are unknown to us, would rather have war and lies than peace and hopelessness.

2.1 - The definition for logic virus, in the stage play, is:



I guess it's just a virus that affects bio-mechanical lifeforms, be they androids or machines.
YoRHa used to have a protection against the logic virus. Once they were almost winning the war, they disabled that protection (enabled the "backdoor"), allowing the logic virus to enter and mess every YoRHa android up.

3 - I have no idea, lmao. We have like 5 minutes of exposition and that's it. I think it's open for you to interpret however you want it.

The Ark was the machine collective basically seeing all the events of the game and going "Fuck it, this war is horseshit" The Tower was a big gun to shoot the moon and destroy humanity's data but after thinking about it the Machine Network decided not to keep perpetuating the war and to send the data of all the machines into space instead to hopefully reach a planet where they could just exist without the need for "gods" or, at worst, just float as data for eternity.

Nice, thanks for clearing all of this up for me!

Man, I love this game and I need more of it.

 

[mtlam]

He just wants to quiz her.

"The million-dollar question: Humans are...
a) Extinct
b) Extinct
c) Extinct
d) Extinct

Ow. 2B. Why did you stab me? What did I do?"

Only four options?! Where's option e?

 

[chrono01]

Only four options?! Where's option e?

It's been deleted.

 

[OniBaka]

Only four options?! Where's option e?

That would be for secret answer 2[E]

 

[XANDER CAGE]

So, more thinking

Pascal. I'm starting to wonder if his tragedy is even worse...Like thats actually possible.

When the insane machines go to attack the A2, Pascal, and the children Pascal insists on helping, and his attitude finally changes. His pacifism fails.

See at this point I had expected a different outcome from Pascal. I figured the loss of his pacifism would directly relate to whatever tragedy was guaranteed to befall him at this point. However it did not. The children all killed themselves out of fear.

What if though my initial expectation was right. The children were taught fear and Pascal blamed himself for that, but what if its even worse. What if what they were truly afraid of was actually Pascal.



this was before he left the room

I think this is close to being on the money; although I don't think they're literally afraid of Pascal, they're afraid of whatever it is that has made Pascal's entire worldview shatter right in front of them.

 

[Ferrio]

I'm sad I missed this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-f0GM0drkQ&t=12m30s

one of the more touching scenes I've seen.

 

[Espada]

Okay, the Cypress Stick and Engine Blades are definitely references to other franchises. Engine Blade's changes to damage numbers and evasion looks like it's referencing Noctis in FFXV, and the Cypress Stick makes things look like Dragon Quest stuff.

Am I on the money?

 

[Alucrid]

question. was yorha comprised of more than just your space station? were there other yorha units around the world as well?

Okay, the Cypress Stick and Engine Blades are definitely references to other franchises. Engine Blade's changes to damage numbers and evasion looks like it's referencing Noctis in FFXV, and the Cypress Stick makes things look like Dragon Quest stuff.

Am I on the money?

if you read the flavor text of the engine blade it makes it pretty clear it's from ff xv

 

[EdmondD]

From Grimoire Nier: March 2032 "Androids", which can operate indefinitely, are placed at various points around the world as overseers of the Replicant System.

Interesting thing about this is that some androids like Devola and Popola are thousands of years old. Also both Replicants and Androids are not supposed to have emotions but end up acting similar to humans. I think I'm going to read Grimoire Nier again there is a lot of cool stuff I forgot.

I'm sad I missed this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-f0GM0drkQ&t=12m30s

one of the more touching scenes I've seen.

Moments like that are why the quests were worth doing.

 

[MetroidPrimeRib]

Okay, the Cypress Stick and Engine Blades are definitely references to other franchises. Engine Blade's changes to damage numbers and evasion looks like it's referencing Noctis in FFXV, and the Cypress Stick makes things look like Dragon Quest stuff.

Am I on the money?

Yes. I've only played two DQ games but Im pretty sure you start out every game with the Cypress Stick as your main weapon, and the Engine Blade is Noctis' sword.

The Iron Pipe is a reference to Nier, and there are two other weapons that are a reference to the version of Nier where the MC is the brother and one to Drakengard 1

 

[robotrock]

question. was yorha comprised of more than just your space station? were there other yorha units around the world as well?

I think this implies it

but also IT COULD ALL BE A LIE

 

[Voliko]

I wonder who was behind the YorHa project and why? Because if the androids won the war then they wouldn't have to fight anymore and their existance would be "meaningless."? Why boost morale if humans don't even exist anymore? Simply because they were designed to love fighting? To continue falsely perpetuating their purpose? What was the point of completely destroying it? I suppose finalizing the rumor of humans on the moon and destroying all evidence was the biggest reason for the project but wouldn't the androids be at a serious disadvantage after YorHa is wrecked?

I thought maybe the machine network because it wants war to be able to evolve more and it saw that android morale was low and the machines were winning. However, that one document talking about the black boxes and how it would be inhumane for YorHa to have regular circuitry refutes that I think.

Is there any explanation behind the zombie robots?

Moments like that are why the quests were worth doing.

I liked the one where 2B comments on the possibility of the existence of an afterlife and heaven at the end.

 

[DreamedLint]

I think this is close to being on the money; although I don't think they're literally afraid of Pascal, they're afraid of whatever it is that has made Pascal's entire worldview shatter right in front of them.

I wonder what kind of machine Pascal was before leaving the network. His ability to fire giant lasers from his chest and control Goliaths indicates he may have been a powerful combat model. I'm not sure I'm 100% on board for the "Children feared Pascal" theory, but I feel like that could be a reason for them to fear him.

 

[Alucrid]

I think this implies it

but also IT COULD ALL BE A LIE

ok, that makes sense. i got the feeling that there was more when you were fighting the giant ocean robot and the backup unit says they're from some other area

 

[Ferrio]

From Grimoire Nier: March 2032 "Androids", which can operate indefinitely, are placed at various points around the world as overseers of the Replicant System.

Interesting thing about this is that some androids like Devola and Popola are thousands of years old. Also both Replicants and Androids are not supposed to have emotions but end up acting similar to humans. I think I'm going to read Grimoire Nier again there is a lot of cool stuff I forgot.


Moments like that are why the quests were worth doing.

I'm not even sure how I missed it, i did every side quest I came across pretty much. Emil never gave me any quests

 

[Espada]

I'm not even sure how I missed it, i did every side quest I came across pretty much. Emil never gave me any quests

It's not a quest for Emil. The male android seated near the transport terminal at the Resistance Camp asks you to find his missing team members. Once you find their keepsakes (hence the name of the mission), he decides to use an old human ritual of putting flowers on their graves. This leads to the final part where you go down there and see that scene with 9S.

And yes, a lot of the sidequests have this type of thing during them or at the end.


From what I understood, the androids simply came up with the mankind-on-the-moon lie to give themselves a reason to continue fighting (that and a way of collecting tons of data in order to improve the next generation of androids). It's kind of sad that the androids put all this effort into tricking themselves while the machines outgrew their creators and chose their own path.

 

[Bowlie]

Is there any explanation behind the zombie robots?

The unit data says it's because the appearance of the resource-thing tower. They eat each other in order to get the others' parts for themselves and become bigger and stronger.

 

[Ferrio]

It's not a quest for Emil. The male android seated near the transport terminal at the Resistance Camp asks you to find his missing team members. Once you find their keepsakes (hence the name of the mission), he decides to use an old human ritual of putting flowers on their graves. This leads to the final part where you go down there and see that scene with 9S.
.

I had looked it up. The final part of it doesn't trigger unless you've completed Emil's quests which some reason I never got. That one I had done.

 

[EdmondD]

I'm not even sure how I missed it, i did every side quest I came across pretty much. Emil never gave me any quests

I never expected the quest to end like that. It blew my mind. One of the better moments from the game. I think you have to do the Emil quest first and then this quest was available.

 

[tuxfool]

I had looked it up. The final part of it doesn't trigger unless you've completed Emil's quests which some reason I never got. That one I had done.

It is only one quest. You trigger the quest by looking at a Lunar Tear. After you finish that quest he unlocks the elevator so you can visit Kainé's hut.

 

[OniBarubary]

I wonder who was behind the YorHa project and why? Because if the androids won the war then they wouldn't have to fight anymore and their existance would be "meaningless."? Why boost morale if humans don't even exist anymore? Simply because they were designed to love fighting? To continue falsely perpetuating their purpose? What was the point of completely destroying it? I suppose spreading the rumor of humans on the moon was the biggest reason for the project but wouldn't the androids be at a serious disatvantage after YorHa is wrecked?

The Androids are behind YoRHa. Basically the androids fought the war for a while but because the androids knew humans were dead they had shit morale because...well, who are they fighting for? Why even fight? Since they are programmed and designed to fight taking away the entire reason they exist basically destroys their lives and gives them all existential doom. The entire point was to perpetuate their purpose for living, even if it was a lie. Destroying YoRHa basically serves a twofold purpose: first it hurts the androids when they are at the point of winning so that the war can continue and second if it kills all of YoRHa and blows up their servers then there is nobody who knows the truth about the humans and thus learn the fact that they're dead. Androids will just keep fighting on the surface and think the humans are just chilling up on the moon.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

No joke this is one of my favorite lines in the game. Right up there with Pod 143's lines in the final ending.

Damn I wasn't the only one. I was thinking about that line for like 2 says and just about every return trip to the park.

 

[Alucrid]

The Androids are behind YoRHa. Basically the androids fought the war for a while but because the androids knew humans were dead they had shit morale because...well, who are they fighting for? Why even fight? Since they are programmed and designed to fight taking away the entire reason they exist basically destroys their lives and gives them all existential doom. The entire point was to perpetuate their purpose for living, even if it was a lie. Destroying YoRHa basically serves a twofold purpose: first it hurts the androids when they are at the point of winning so that the war can continue and second if it kills all of YoRHa and blows up their servers then there is nobody who knows the truth about the humans and thus learn the fact that they're dead. Androids will just keep fighting on the surface and think the humans are just chilling up on the moon.

i think they mean what androids are behind yorha

 

[OniBarubary]

i think they mean what androids are behind yorha

Iunno, some random-ass androids.

 

[Voliko]

Iunno, some random-ass androids.

There's literally an android chilling on the moon typing up Council of Humanity e-mail drafts all day.

 

[Satch]

So, more thinking

Pascal. I'm starting to wonder if his tragedy is even worse...Like thats actually possible.

When the insane machines go to attack the A2, Pascal, and the children Pascal insists on helping, and his attitude finally changes. His pacifism fails.

See at this point I had expected a different outcome from Pascal. I figured the loss of his pacifism would directly relate to whatever tragedy was guaranteed to befall him at this point. However it did not. The children all killed themselves out of fear.

What if though my initial expectation was right. The children were taught fear and Pascal blamed himself for that, but what if its even worse. What if what they were truly afraid of was actually Pascal.



this was before he left the room

why did you use your fingers to type this ?

 

[Dreams-Visions]

why did you use your fingers to type this ?

To make us all feel like shit yet again.

 

[ShironRedshift]

From what I understood, the androids simply came up with the mankind-on-the-moon lie to give themselves a reason to continue fighting (that and a way of collecting tons of data in order to improve the next generation of androids). It's kind of sad that the androids put all this effort into tricking themselves while the machines outgrew their creators and chose their own path.

Did the machines outgrow their creators? The aliens gave them one simple purpose: destroy all life on Earth, specifically the Androids. The machines end up realizing that actually fulfilling this objective will leave them with no purpose so they end up imitating the behavior of humans and limiting themselves so that they never actually fulfill their objective and are left without purpose. The machines never truly choose a path for themselves--their behavior from beginning to end is guided by the original purpose the aliens gave them. That is, they could have chosen to entirely ignore that directive and find their own purpose but just as androids become obsessed with humanity and keeping the illusion of its continued existence in tact so they have continued purpose, so too do the, as Jackass put it, "evolutionary dead-end lifeforms" known as machines become obsessed with androids just so they have continued purpose and a reason to continue fighting as well, all because of that original order their creators gave them.

Then again, I suppose Ending D could be read that way, especially with Adam no longer having any malice towards 9S at all, but it could also just as easily be read as the machines just projecting their problems into the future and hoping whoever, if anyone, finds all their data can figure it out themselves (or not). In any case, I definitely didn't get the impression that the machines were supposed to be that far removed from the androids in terms of that kind of problem. They simply walked two different paths that ended up converging at the same point.

 

[OniBarubary]

There's literally an android chilling on the moon typing up Council of Humanity e-mail drafts all day.

I believe that

 

[EmCeeGramr]

What's symbolic and what's literal in these games can get kind of muddled, but I wondered about the seeming Drakengard references in the game.

-Madness/berserk state indicated by red eyes (Xander Cage pointed out to me that the Drakengard red eyes are indicative of being controlled by gods, the androids and machines have attained a self awareness that gives them "gods" to fight for)
-The Red Girls with their red clothes, hair styles, and the way their childish voices give way to deep ones feeling like a callback to Manah (in her red Cult attire) being a conduit for the Watchers
-Eve's symbol on his chest during his fight isn't just the machine faces from the Picture Books, it's machine faces forming the two-faced symbol for the Cult of the Watchers in Drakengard
-The game goes out its way to point out that the Resource Units use Angelic script on them (Angelic being the script used for magic in Nier and Drakengard, and the Watchers being Angels in the Japanese versions)
-Even though the Copied City and Tower are made out of silicon and carbon (which is symbolic in and of itself of a union between electronic and organic life, I think), their pure white crystalline aesthetic reminds me of how the initial apocalypse in Nier was caused by the Queen Beast/Mother Angel, which was also pure white, disintegrated into magical "salt" and caused infected people to transform into salt as well (an NPC in Nier refers to the world becoming "a metropolis of salt" but assumes it's a metaphor for rising ocean levels)

I'm trying to figure out if it's a literal connection (something of the Watchers/Angels remained in the Nier universe despite the purification project, and infected machines who had no protection against it unlike androids and Replicants) or a symbolic one (Machines' rapid evolution allowed them to attain a form of self awareness and godlike power that parallels the Watchers/Angels), or both, or whether it matters.

 

[Voliko]

snip

Yeah it felt like the machines wanted to go their own direction and find new purposes but it was specifically noted that they never came up with any new ideas, only imitating humans.

 

[kuroshiki]

The Ark was the machine collective basically seeing all the events of the game and going "Fuck it, this war is horseshit" The Tower was a big gun to shoot the moon and destroy humanity's data but after thinking about it the Machine Network decided not to keep perpetuating the war and to send the data of all the machines into space instead to hopefully reach a planet where they could just exist without the need for "gods" or, at worst, just float as data for eternity.

Actually machine collective actually had very favorable view on all machine wars, since they believed it ultimately pushed them to be evolved further.

 

[Jiraiza]

I'm trying to figure out if it's a literal connection (something of the Watchers/Angels remained in the Nier universe despite the purification project, and infected machines who had no protection against it unlike androids and Replicants) or a symbolic one (Machines' rapid evolution allowed them to attain a form of self awareness and godlike power that parallels the Watchers/Angels), or both, or whether it matters.

I'm sure there's a Watcher out there ecstatic knowing humanity is completely dead in this timeline.

 

[Ritzboof]

so ive beaten the game and the thing that im confused about the most is the reveal that 2B is actually 2E and she was supposed to be killing 9S all along

why? its not like theres any implication 9S was doing anything wacky before the prologue; in fact, wasnt he the one that was assigned to help 2B take care of the goliaths? were lead to believe 2B didnt know 9S was gunna be involved, and i guess that could be a ruse, but i really dont see whats going on there. just because whatever? also, why would they be doing so much work if 2Bs mission was just to kill 9S in very convenient ways? also, if he had to be killed, why did he keep coming back whenever he was? its not like hed forgotten anything of importance whenever he died, even if he ultimately didnt survive the fight with eve. he still wouldve eventually learned everything he did about project yorha

how does this serve the plot, also? i dont really understand what kind of impact this is supposed to have on the outcome of the story. this twist just feels very random and arbitrary, when everything already made perfect sense. i feel like, if you just removed that bit from the segment, things would still proceed exactly like they did and 9S would still be just as angry as he was

the only thing im seeing here is some weird new perspective on 2Bs change in character throughout the game. with or without this new information, though, 2B was cold and official at first but slowly opened up until she was killed and became the figure she was for 9S and A2. it doesnt make her friendship with 9S or any of her feelings any different. shes still essentially exactly who we thought she was. whats the point? i dont see what it really changes other than the fact that its another weird lie and a show of how weird the yorha project was

this is so jarring to me for some reason, it makes the final encounter between 9S and A2 feel so awkward to me. its such a random and unfulfilling piece of information

 

[EdmondD]

What's symbolic and what's literal in these games can get kind of muddled, but I wondered about the seeming Drakengard references in the game.

-Madness/berserk state indicated by red eyes (Xander Cage pointed out to me that the Drakengard red eyes are indicative of being controlled by gods, the androids and machines have attained a self awareness that gives them "gods" to fight for)
-The Red Girls with their red clothes, hair styles, and the way their childish voices give way to deep ones feeling like a callback to Manah (in her red Cult attire) being a conduit for the Watchers
-Eve's symbol on his chest during his fight isn't just the machine faces from the Picture Books, it's machine faces forming the two-faced symbol for the Cult of the Watchers in Drakengard
-The game goes out its way to point out that the Resource Units use Angelic script on them (Angelic being the script used for magic in Nier and Drakengard, and the Watchers being Angels in the Japanese versions)
-Even though the Copied City and Tower are made out of silicon and carbon (which is symbolic in and of itself of a union between electronic and organic life, I think), their pure white crystalline aesthetic reminds me of how the initial apocalypse in Nier was caused by the Queen Beast/Mother Angel, which was also pure white, disintegrated into magical "salt" and caused infected people to transform into salt as well (an NPC in Nier refers to the world becoming "a metropolis of salt" but assumes it's a metaphor for rising ocean levels)

I'm trying to figure out if it's a literal connection (something of the Watchers/Angels remained in the Nier universe despite the purification project, and infected machines who had no protection against it unlike androids and Replicants) or a symbolic one (Machines' rapid evolution allowed them to attain a form of self awareness and godlike power that parallels the Watchers/Angels), or both, or whether it matters.

Another thing about red eyes is that it made the machines "eat" androids and each other. It says in the unit data the machines made mouths for themselves so they could mimic the act of eating which is pretty crazy. Watchers/Angels are seen devouring everything in Drakengard. In one of the mangas dragons are infected with red eyes and cannibalize each other.

So I'm just throwing stuff at the wall and seeing what sticks but my own thoughts about it were that when the machines found the things with "different shapes" that 9S mentions in route B. These thing are tainted by some crazy drakengard/watchers magic. This speeds up the evolution of machines but it also infects them.

 

[chrono01]

so ive beaten the game and the thing that im confused about the most is the reveal that 2B is actually 2E and she was supposed to be killing 9S all along

why? its not like theres any implication 9S was doing anything wacky before the prologue; in fact, wasnt he the one that was assigned to help 2B take care of the goliaths? were lead to believe 2B didnt know 9S was gunna be involved, and i guess that could be a ruse, but i really dont see whats going on there. just because whatever? also, why would they be doing so much work if 2Bs mission was just to kill 9S in very convenient ways? also, if he had to be killed, why did he keep coming back whenever he was? its not like hed forgotten anything of importance whenever he died, even if he ultimately didnt survive the fight with eve. he still wouldve eventually learned everything he did about project yorha

how does this serve the plot, also? i dont really understand what kind of impact this is supposed to have on the outcome of the story. this twist just feels very random and arbitrary, when everything already made perfect sense. i feel like, if you just removed that bit from the segment, things would still proceed exactly like they did and 9S would still be just as angry as he was

the only thing im seeing here is some weird new perspective on 2Bs change in character throughout the game. with or without this new information, though, 2B was cold and official at first but slowly opened up until she was killed and became the figure she was for 9S and A2. it doesnt make her friendship with 9S or any of her feelings any different. shes still essentially exactly who we thought she was. whats the point? i dont see what it really changes other than the fact that its another weird lie and a show of how weird the yorha project was

this is so jarring to me for some reason, it makes the final encounter between 9S and A2 feel so awkward to me. its such a random and unfulfilling piece of information

2B/2E's goal was to fight, and 9S was to scan and gather information. Given the intelligence of scanner units, and the threat of exposing the truth that humanity was already wiped out, Type-E YoRHa were associated with them. If 9S got too close, 2B would kill him. Her coldness to him is likely due to the fact that she's already had to kill him dozens (hundreds?) of times, and her opening up to him was probably a result of the experiences shared together and the longer length of time before 9S's "forced" reset.

As for 9S's data, it was stored differently than other YoRHa models. Whereas 2B had her data constantly updated, any time a scanner type dies their data is instantly re-written to how it was at the start (i.e., base model). That's why 2B didn't want 9S to die during her final confrontation with Eve, as she essentially would have lost the now/current version of 9S as he'd be reverted to the initial prototype (the version that would instinctively call her "maam", as seen at the start of the first mission and then again after the two of them detonate their Black Boxes to defeat the group of Goliath).

 

[Taruranto]

Could the Machines even be infected anyway? You need a soul for that.

Androids and Replicants can't.


Also, I wonder why the androids never tried to create some test-tube babies? They have the DNA and I find hard to believe they don't have the technology for it.

 

[XANDER CAGE]

so ive beaten the game and the thing that im confused about the most is the reveal that 2B is actually 2E and she was supposed to be killing 9S all along

why? its not like theres any implication 9S was doing anything wacky before the prologue; in fact, wasnt he the one that was assigned to help 2B take care of the goliaths? were lead to believe 2B didnt know 9S was gunna be involved, and i guess that could be a ruse, but i really dont see whats going on there. just because whatever? also, why would they be doing so much work if 2Bs mission was just to kill 9S in very convenient ways? also, if he had to be killed, why did he keep coming back whenever he was? its not like hed forgotten anything of importance whenever he died, even if he ultimately didnt survive the fight with eve. he still wouldve eventually learned everything he did about project yorha

how does this serve the plot, also? i dont really understand what kind of impact this is supposed to have on the outcome of the story. this twist just feels very random and arbitrary, when everything already made perfect sense. i feel like, if you just removed that bit from the segment, things would still proceed exactly like they did and 9S would still be just as angry as he was

the only thing im seeing here is some weird new perspective on 2Bs change in character throughout the game. with or without this new information, though, 2B was cold and official at first but slowly opened up until she was killed and became the figure she was for 9S and A2. it doesnt make her friendship with 9S or any of her feelings any different. shes still essentially exactly who we thought she was. whats the point? i dont see what it really changes other than the fact that its another weird lie and a show of how weird the yorha project was

this is so jarring to me for some reason, it makes the final encounter between 9S and A2 feel so awkward to me. its such a random and unfulfilling piece of information

9S is the most advanced Scanner YoRHa has. He has been "assigned to" 2B many times and does not remember it, because 2B's job is to protect him until he inevitably discovers the truth about humanity. YoRHa gets to use him to harvest lots of other important data, and to everyone who isn't 2B, the cost of killing him/bringing back a new 9S is worth it for whatever they get before he has to be killed. He did not always come back the way he was, which is precisely why 2B is so torn up about him not uploading his data at the end of the first mission. She's only "cold and official" with him to try and numb herself from fostering a relationship (be that romantic/platonic/whatever your interpretation may be) and that's why her behavior is so inconsistent. By the time the game starts, this has repeated many times over.

 

[Razmos]

So I was listening to this: https://youtu.be/dPbL4Y8KsSM

And I read in the comments that it has a Tekken style to it, and that the guy who composed it does music for Tekken, when it dawned on me that the fight itself was a 2D one-on-one fight with lots of kicking and punching.

I wish they'd gone all out and made a fake 2D fighter segment for that fight health bars and rounds included, it would have been amazing.

 

[Ferrio]

so ive beaten the game and the thing that im confused about the most is the reveal that 2B is actually 2E and she was supposed to be killing 9S all along

why? its not like theres any implication 9S was doing anything wacky before the prologue; in fact, wasnt he the one that was assigned to help 2B take care of the goliaths? were lead to believe 2B didnt know 9S was gunna be involved, and i guess that could be a ruse, but i really dont see whats going on there. just because whatever? also, why would they be doing so much work if 2Bs mission was just to kill 9S in very convenient ways? also, if he had to be killed, why did he keep coming back whenever he was? its not like hed forgotten anything of importance whenever he died, even if he ultimately didnt survive the fight with eve. he still wouldve eventually learned everything he did about project yorha

When the game starts they've already met many many times before. We as the audience just assume that it was their first meeting because of 9S has no memory of it and 2B is closed lipped because that's her job. There's a lot of little moments in A/B that allude to this that are more apparent after the fact.

 

[Bowlie]

I'm trying to figure out if it's a literal connection (something of the Watchers/Angels remained in the Nier universe despite the purification project, and infected machines who had no protection against it unlike androids and Replicants) or a symbolic one (Machines' rapid evolution allowed them to attain a form of self awareness and godlike power that parallels the Watchers/Angels), or both, or whether it matters.

Also:
- the zombie machines eat whatever is in front of them like the grotesqueries in Drakengard 1's D ending;
- Twins' Fang, a weapon from Drakengard 1, is in this game; it is implied that Accord, a character from Drakengard 3, traveled between worlds to bring that and other weapons here.

The red eyes and the silicon-based constructions could be knowledge acquired from the Old World by the machine network just by looking at past documents, but Manah's outfit, the Angelic language and the Cult's symbol were only seen in Drakengard's world, so for them to show up here... it's weird.

 

[XANDER CAGE]

Also:
- the zombie machines eat whatever is in front of them like the grotesqueries in Drakengard 1's D ending;
- Twins' Fang, a weapon from Drakengard 1, is in this game; it is implied that Accord, a character from Drakengard 3, traveled between worlds to bring that and other weapons here.

The red eyes and the silicon-based constructions could be knowledge acquired from the Old World by the machine network just by looking at past documents, but Manah's outfit, the Angelic language and the Cult's symbol were only seen in Drakengard's world, so for them to show up here... it's weird.

All true, although angelic script could technically exist in Nier's universe without Drakengard's influence. It's a real written alphabet.

 

[Fraxin]

I didnt even think of the whole playing against the warming up trope.

Also on the whole love thing, I definitely feel like its down to that. 9S's love was obvious, but every hint shows it from 2B leans towards it. As mentioned above in the quote, as well as the mentioned jealousy in the amnesia quest.

Another thing to note is the Nines nickname. 9S claims that people close to him call him nines, but the only one actually to ever call him nines is 2B. Seems to me it was a nickname 2B gave him that was unable to be wiped out.

That nickname was probably given by 2b, funny thing is that her tongue slip in the forest when entering the castle and called him nines.

 

[Bowlie]

All true, although angelic script could technically exist in Nier's universe without Drakengard's influence. It's a real written alphabet.

Oh, I didn't know it was a real alphabet!

 

[Ritzboof]

2B/2E's goal was to fight, and 9S was to scan and gather information. Given the intelligence of scanner units, and the threat of exposing the truth that humanity was already wiped out, Type-E YoRHa were associated with them. If 9S got too close, 2B would kill him. Her coldness to him is likely due to the fact that she's already had to kill him dozens (hundreds?) of times, and her opening up to him was probably a result of the experiences shared together and the longer length of time before 9S's "forced" reset.

As for 9S's data, it was stored differently than other YoRHa models. Whereas 2B had her data constantly updated, any time a scanner type dies their data is instantly re-written to how it was at the start (i.e., base model). That's why 2B didn't want 9S to die during her final confrontation with Eve, as she essentially would have lost the now/current version of 9S as he'd be reverted to the initial prototype (the version that would instinctively call her "maam", as seen at the start of the first mission and then again after the two of them detonate their Black Boxes to defeat the group of Goliath).

9S is the most advanced Scanner YoRHa has. He has been "assigned to" 2B many times and does not remember it, because 2B's job is to protect him until he inevitably discovers the truth about humanity. YoRHa gets to use him to harvest lots of other important data, and to everyone who isn't 2B, the cost of killing him/bringing back a new 9S is worth it for whatever they get before he has to be killed. He did not always come back the way he was, which is precisely why 2B is so torn up about him not uploading his data at the end of the first mission. She's only "cold and official" with him to try and numb herself from fostering a relationship (be that romantic/platonic/whatever your interpretation may be) and that's why her behavior is so inconsistent. By the time the game starts, this has repeated many times over.

When the game starts they've already met many many times before. We as the audience just assume that it was their first meeting because of 9S has no memory of it and 2B is closed lipped because that's her job. There's a lot of little moments in A/B that allude to this that are more apparent after the fact.

i guess this makes things make more sense. i didnt really consider that 9S gets reset to base 9S whenever he dies because that consequence doesnt exist in normal gameplay. i also didnt really consider that this has been an ongoing thing, but any implications towards that must have flown over my head, because none of those moments really come to mind. i didnt experience any kind of buildup to this reveal, and everything already made perfect sense, so it was extremely odd to me and didnt really change my interpretation of the games events

its still feels a bit inconsequential in terms of how the game progresses, and i still dont know why thats what A2 felt the need to clarify in that moment, but it definitely explains the 2B and 9S pairing a bit and the awkward situation with 9Ss memories

 

[Fraxin]

so ive beaten the game and the thing that im confused about the most is the reveal that 2B is actually 2E and she was supposed to be killing 9S all along

why? its not like theres any implication 9S was doing anything wacky before the prologue; in fact, wasnt he the one that was assigned to help 2B take care of the goliaths? were lead to believe 2B didnt know 9S was gunna be involved, and i guess that could be a ruse, but i really dont see whats going on there. just because whatever? also, why would they be doing so much work if 2Bs mission was just to kill 9S in very convenient ways? also, if he had to be killed, why did he keep coming back whenever he was? its not like hed forgotten anything of importance whenever he died, even if he ultimately didnt survive the fight with eve. he still wouldve eventually learned everything he did about project yorha

how does this serve the plot, also? i dont really understand what kind of impact this is supposed to have on the outcome of the story. this twist just feels very random and arbitrary, when everything already made perfect sense. i feel like, if you just removed that bit from the segment, things would still proceed exactly like they did and 9S would still be just as angry as he was

the only thing im seeing here is some weird new perspective on 2Bs change in character throughout the game. with or without this new information, though, 2B was cold and official at first but slowly opened up until she was killed and became the figure she was for 9S and A2. it doesnt make her friendship with 9S or any of her feelings any different. shes still essentially exactly who we thought she was. whats the point? i dont see what it really changes other than the fact that its another weird lie and a show of how weird the yorha project was

this is so jarring to me for some reason, it makes the final encounter between 9S and A2 feel so awkward to me. its such a random and unfulfilling piece of information

9S is the most advanced Scanner YoRHa has. He has been "assigned to" 2B many times and does not remember it, because 2B's job is to protect him until he inevitably discovers the truth about humanity. YoRHa gets to use him to harvest lots of other important data, and to everyone who isn't 2B, the cost of killing him/bringing back a new 9S is worth it for whatever they get before he has to be killed. He did not always come back the way he was, which is precisely why 2B is so torn up about him not uploading his data at the end of the first mission. She's only "cold and official" with him to try and numb herself from fostering a relationship (be that romantic/platonic/whatever your interpretation may be) and that's why her behavior is so inconsistent. By the time the game starts, this has repeated many times over.

When I repeat the game and played just after the bunker. 9s said something about that it was weird that they assigned the task to 2b and that the mission is usually assigned to scanners. Which made me ask, was the first mission after the bunker for both 2b and 9s? Or was it 9s' and 2bs mission was actually just keeping an eye on 9s, but they assigned to 2b also nonetheless so that 9s doesn't start doubting?

 

[Taruranto]

All true, although angelic script could technically exist in Nier's universe without Drakengard's influence. It's a real written alphabet.

To add to this, it's not like the Watchers didn't exist in Nier's universe (Until they got kicked out)
http://nier.wikia.com/wiki/Legion

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Random thought: I really appreciated the Supply Trader's quiet brain grenade moment with his Ship of Thesus remark.

Especially in light of our heroes black boxing themselves and 9S repeatedly being robbed of who he was over and over again.

 

[Snakethesniper]

I feel stupid, but I didn't really "feel" the ending. In particular, coming from the first Nier.
I mean, I was playing expecting the big plot twist, and don't get me wrong, there is, the whole humanity is extinct etc. etc., but I feel like it was disclosed to early? I don't remember exactly when we find out the truth, but it's way before the ending. When the red sisters give the "big prize" to 9S, it's simply a document we already knew (and even less). What was the purpose of the tower is known before you get into it.
Getting to the finale is epic, the whole double battle and stuff is awesome, but then I don't know, it's like the build all this momentum and...nothing. Probably if the last battle was between 2B and 9S, that would have been more dramatic, but we meet A2 later in the game and don't know very much about her, I don't know, it's difficult to feel sad?
Probably I'm an outsider, and I hope I just didn't get some things, because I really wanted to enjoy it, and it's a great game for sure, but at the end I was like "wait, that's it?".
Dunno.

 

[dlauv]

I got Route E's ending, but I'm not sure I completely understand it. I guess 9S' consciousness went with Adam (or not) into space. The Pods decided to build a community network not unlike the machines, but with more autonomy. They're rebuilding 2B, 9S, and A2. And probably the rest of the androids.

I don't know what A2 was talking about with the 2B model killing 9S over and over. Is there an archive I need to look at more than the events of the game? Is the reveal as grand as it was making it out to be, or was it just some basic "our model is designed to kill YoRHa."

During the credits you could not only not delete the memories, but "leak" the memories? I'm not sure what it would be leaked from. The mirror data on Earth, which was sapped from the back door of the Bunker?

Why did the back door exist in the first place? Why were the androids being sacrificed? I would think it was because of Gestalt, but the moon plan didn't really make sense in that case.

I didn't really know how to feel until I lost to that bullet hell gauntlet a few times and got the swelling music and the help from player IDs on the network. That was really cute and tied the theme of it all together.