R
Rodin
Unconfirmed Member
I'm at disbelief everytime i read something like this
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The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild |OT2| It's 98 All Over Again
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LegendofLex
Member
Hint 1:
What do you think the rows of slots on the floor mean?
Hint 2:
What's the difference between each row?
Hint 3:
What do the slots correspond to?
It's not strictly wrong though? There's a small number of dungeons and a small number of bosses. It seems right to say that they ended up not being the focus of the game this time around.
Tom Nook
Member
Finished the game last night.
Ganon's last form was somewhat disappointing, just running around and shoot at the points. It would've cool if the battle is all over Hyrule field, the lake, on the volcano, and maybe bring it to the snowfield. (player has to change clothes).
Great game and I can't wait for the DLC storyline in the Fall.
Great game and I can't wait for the DLC storyline in the Fall.
White Wolf
Member
i got it, thanks everyone! kinda ambiguous if im being honest, dare i say misleading lol. i was counting the stars but there were too many to fit, then i tried counting the bigger stars, but alas. instead it's not about
thanks again for the hints!
the number of stars, but the number of constellations
thanks again for the hints!
With 120 shrines and some of the best puzzles the series has yet offered, calling them "not worthwhile" seems like an unfair assessment. They likely weren't the focusthe overworld was. But they are still worthwhile.
If you're talking about the POI I think you are
the Leviathan remains, which is part of a side quest too, I found those. The pile of moblins underneath almost murdered me.
KoruptData
Member
I'm 80 hours in and I can go fight Gannon anytime and I tell myself tonight is the night and I just get on and go exploring.
White Wolf
Member
btw, any idea which area i can find stealthfin trouts? i want to max out the
sheikah armor
D
Deleted member 752119
Unconfirmed Member
Just different strokes. I'm at like 58 shrines done and don't feel super compelled to find many more having beaten the game and played over 60 hours. They get pretty repetitive after a while. I'm sure there's some great puzzle ones I've missed, and I'll keep exploring here and there (mostly to just use my Switch until more games are out), but I don't have any incentive of needing upgrades to hunt them all out nor enjoy them (or hunting for them) in and of themselves to make an effort to find all/most of them.
Just different strokes for different folks. BOTW is great for the gamers who like making their own story/fun, having tons of freedom, exploring for explorations sake, hunting for hidden things etc. Not as great for people who prefer more structured games and enjoyed past Zelda games for finding and completing the dungeons, killing Ganon and moving on to the next game.
As I've said repeatedly to avoid getting Jim Sterlinged, it's a testament to the games quality that I like it as much as I do given my preference for more linear, narrative driven games. It's an incredibly well made game. But just because it is, and is at 97 on Metacritic etc. doesn't invalidate that it's still not a game for everyone as no game ever will be. People that like it less aren't to be disbelieved, they just have different tastes than the people who love it. It's a very different game than the mainstream AAA stuff on other platforms that many gamers love. To some that's a huge breath of fresh air (no pun intended), whereas others will be underwhelmed or dislike it as they just love their linear, cinematic, narrative-driven games, or their online shooters or their sports sims or whatever. Others like me will fall in between and like it a lot, but would have preferred it to be a more traditional Zelda game as the openness wasn't a huge appealing factor for us and we really missed the dungeons and more linear narrative of past 3D Zeldas.
I need to get this off my chest.
Master Sword beams suck. They're garbage. I have the fully upgraded set of the Wild, which is supposed to boost the sword beams' power, but even when the sword is glowing they only do 30 damage. When not glowing, they do 15, which is just enough to kill a red bokoblin. Shouldn't they be doing more? I have a whole set bonus dedicated to boosting them, and they still seem so weak.
Sure, that's evident. Not everyone is going to find what they want here.
I see little difference between choosing a path to puzzles and being forced toward them, except that one method offers more freedom. But it's clear not everyone is on board with having more choice in what direction to take. I guess there is something in the linear titles that gives some players more of a sense of purpose, and compels them forward, and whatever that thrust may be makes similar content more engaging to them.
kunonabi
Member
Dungeon's aren't interesting purely for the puzzles and honestly the shrine puzzles aren't really that impressive anyway. Nothing about the shrines, the dungeons, or the bosses is impressive. There a couple decent decent shrine riddles but even then a lot them are no more complex than putting the red ball in the red hole.
Tons of shrines don't even have any puzzles in them and don't give me the whole" finding the shrine" is the puzzle because only a couple of those shrines are really worth not having a puzzle in them.
dampflokfreund
Banned
I think for the next game they have to get the perfect mixture between linear and open world.
OrbitalBeard
Member
The shrines are amazing. One of the best aspects of this game. And many of them feature the best puzzles in the entire series. And the Shrine Quests are even better. I'd like to see some more visual variety as well as better combat challenges in the next game, but otherwise, they're a fantastic addition to the series.
Also, the Divine Beasts are great, but they're a "one and done" kind of deal. They don't need to return.
Also, the Divine Beasts are great, but they're a "one and done" kind of deal. They don't need to return.
dampflokfreund
Banned
At first I was very impressed with the shrine puzzles, but after 60 shrines or so, they felt pretty repetitive because as you said they look very similar to each other but especially because most of the shrines were blessing and combat shrines (that also always have the same basic enemy) I would have traded half the shrines for 2-3 traditional dungeons.
OrbitalBeard
Member
The combat shrines are probably the weakest part of the entire game. So, I agree with that for sure. I want combat shrines with lots of variety in the next game. I love the concept of them, but they need better execution.
R
Rodin
Unconfirmed Member
Read that post again.
Btw, anyone can say "this is bad because is bad so believe me when i say it's bad", but i have yet to see arguments about how and why the shrines or the dungeons aren't good. There is a difference between "short" and "badly designed". The size of the three dungeons i've completed was a bit underwhelming, but the puzzles in them weren't.
The physics/runes/items based puzzle solving with different solutions is a huge step ahead compared to older entries in the series, there is a massive difference between having items made to work with certain structures (and ONLY those structures) and having an entire world that interacts with all of your tools. There's even an outstanding video that explains this perfectly, but it shouldn't even be needed - if people can't see this I don't even know what to say.
I can even share the criticism about bosses (well, at least 2 of them, possibly 3), but that's it.
They are like that because of story/lore, it's impossible that the next game will have this type of dungeons. Maybe some key design elements will translate, but that's only a good thing.
I too way over thought this one.
Combat shrines are the worst I've seen so far. Haven't found any motion controlled shrines yet thoughmy opinion might change.
The shrine guardians are unique, but underused, and rarely difficult.
LegendofLex
Member
Honestly, get rid of Guardians and add more enemy variety (and enemies) to shrines instead, and cut way down on boring "arena" test of strength shrines and blessing shrines and replace them with more enemies in shrines and more complex shrines, and I think Nintendo's got a pretty good reusable formula for future games.
"Activate all the terminals" is the most anticlimactic thing I've ever had to do in a Zelda dungeon.
Doesn't help that, because of this conceit, the dungeons throw out the labyrinthine, enemy-filled "dungeon crawl" feel that makes the older Zelda dungeons so challenging. The puzzles we ended up with are a really poor tradeoff when we don't really have anything like that kind of challenge outside of Hyrule Castle.
Breath of the Wild is my favorite Zelda game (still haven't beaten it!), but I'll never replay the divine beasts.
OrbitalBeard
Member
Only played one so far and there's very noticeable drift that makes the whole thing frustrating. Not sure if it's hardware or software fault though
Milly Osworth
Member
They should have made like 10 different visual styles for the shrines. It gets too repetitive. Plus the divine beast dungeons suck donkeyballz. Next Zelda game should have epic temples again.
My favourite shrines are the "you've already proven your worth for getting here" since they're more naturally woven into the overworld.
The Divine Beasfs are also well designed around the creatures movement and how to get around them. They could've used some more shadow of the colossus type boarding but they're well constructed so far.
The Divine Beasfs are also well designed around the creatures movement and how to get around them. They could've used some more shadow of the colossus type boarding but they're well constructed so far.
Trojan
Member
I have motion controls turned off (because fuck motion controls). Are these more palatable using the controller or does it break the experience? (No spoilers please)
OrbitalBeard
Member
Yup, Shrine Quests. Love 'em.
Motion controls are required in certain shrines. Doesn't matter that you have gyro disabled. I loved them, but if you're not a fan of motion, you're probably going to hate them. There's only a few of them though.
Nexus Zero
Member
Same, thought it was HW but it happens with both the Switch and the Pro controller.
kunonabi
Member
The Beast puzzles basically boil down to hitting a switch over and over again until you get things done in the right order. They're a lot like Ocarina dungeons with less backtracking but lacking in any appealing trappings. There is no second layer to the puzzles in the dungeons either outside of the Gerudo one. Hell, if you aren't making it a point to pick up chests in the Beasts there is almost no substance to them.
The problem with the puzzle design much like the rest of the game is that lack of escalation. The puzzles never build on a idea or combine it with another to create that second or third layer. It introduces a basic idea and then it ends.
This isn't a result of the rune/physics approach as you could still do proper dungeons with that setup. They just chose not to for one reason or another.
My favorite shrine quest was about casting a cold shadow, after trying what I thought would be the obvious solutions, I was pleasantly surprised when I found the correct solution.
R
Rodin
Unconfirmed Member
"Activate all the terminals" plus the way the beasts are designed means that you can tackle every single puzzle in them in any order. But the real star in the dungeons is the
interactivity with them. I got stuck in the Vah Ruta because i didn't get the map at first (when Mipha told me to get the map i was like "yeah ok, i'll get it later") and i didn't know i could move the elephant. When i did and realized how that thing worked i was blown away. "Move a piece of the dungeon itself to get the water inside and make the wheel spin". Holy fuck. That's certainly something i never saw in a Zelda game and not something i was expecting to see.
Nah. The lore is pretty clear about why they look like that. The shrines are made by the sheikah, there's no reason they would theme them based on the region or the place. I can imagine the sheikah architects be like "yeah sure we're near a volcano here, let's make the shrines red and lava themed" lol
I was surprised to see that many quest-related shrines actually had puzzles in them. I thought they were all like you said, but nope. In fact a few of them had pretty amazing puzzles in there.
I liked most motion controls puzzles but holy shit the one where you have to
insert the three spheres together
Thanks for explaining what you don't like about them. I disagree about the lack of escalation/second layer though, as there are many, many shrines and outside puzzles that do just that (plus the Naboris and Ruta... not sure about Rudania, as i just entered it).
And no, you don't need to do the puzzles in any specific order in the beasts.
Also like i said, the fact that you can
physically interact with the dungeons
Stereogatari
Banned
Nearly 100 hours in and encountered my first bear.
I have about 20-30 shrines left. I'm just using a guide now. Persona 5 is coming up and I just want to wrap things up rather than get myself frustrated looking around the overworld for the remaining shrines.
I have about 20-30 shrines left. I'm just using a guide now. Persona 5 is coming up and I just want to wrap things up rather than get myself frustrated looking around the overworld for the remaining shrines.
A whole Zelda game of those would be great. Fez-style.
Tathanen
Get Inside Her!
I'm pretty strongly in favor of multiple themes for shrines, but I understand this desire for thematic-consistency since they're all Sheikah-made. Simple solution: have more remote shrines be overtaken by the environment. Still all made out of the same materials, but the wall has collapsed inwards and the inside is full of lava and rock from the mountain. Or one's frozen. Or one's full of drifting sand. Or one's completely overgrown by forest, the floor is covered in grass, vines are climbing the walls, and trees have pushed over platforms.
It's easy to make changes like this, since the constraint is a make-believe one: the developers are in control of the plot, and can make the plot whatever they want. I suspect they're all identical more because of time constraints than anything. I think it woulda been really nice to have a few pristine ones but have a ton that were in various states of reclaimation by the environment.
I have no problem with the combat shrines. They are there to teach you the combat system and allow you to try new things out. Having the same type of enemy and the same type of attacks is helpful in getting better at combat IMO
Then the lore should've been changed to allow for more visual variety of the shrines. All of the shrines and beasts having basically the same aesthetics is one of the bigger problems the game has, and I don't think "lore" is a particularly good excuse for it.
Those have been my favorite as well, but I would really love for them to have a final challenge in the shrine itself. That would be a great place for a combat shrinea post-labyrinth boss, some kind of unique guardian, whatever.
LegendofLex
Member
Being able to do things "in any order" is pretty useless when I actively don't want to do the things.
You could have had a more traditional dungeon that lets you manipulate the dungeon.
See: Forest Temple (outside boss room), Water Temple, Lakebed Temple, Lanayru Mining Facility, Sky Keep, etc.
Zelda 1 dungeons were never, ever, ever designed around puzzles.
There isn't really a pro to the way they approached the dungeons in this game. I don't see what they gained, but I see plenty of things they sacrificed.
They could still have used a lot of what they had in a larger dungeon, too, so it's a damn shame.
The shrines are made by the Sheikah, but that doesn't mean there isn't a reason to theme them. As if the Sheikah are required to be this monolithic culture that doesn't adjust at all to specific environments.
victreeb3l
Member
I think my biggest complaint about Shrines is that there are too many freebie and combat shrines. Sure some of the shrines take a lot of effort to get to and the journey is the reward but I would still love it if there were some puzzles at the end of the road. Theyre just so damn fun.
I also made the mistake of accumulating dozens of shrines and going through them in large batches at a time. I should have done them a few at a time or soon after finding them so I would remember the journey and the abundance of freebie / combat shrines wouldnt have been so noticeable.
I do appreciate how some of them try to change it up. Noticed that some of them have metal blocks you can pull or water you can use cryonis on to make ice blocks.
I also made the mistake of accumulating dozens of shrines and going through them in large batches at a time. I should have done them a few at a time or soon after finding them so I would remember the journey and the abundance of freebie / combat shrines wouldnt have been so noticeable.
I do appreciate how some of them try to change it up. Noticed that some of them have metal blocks you can pull or water you can use cryonis on to make ice blocks.
The divine beasts I'm fine with in concept--they're basically giant spacial awareness puzzles--but in execution they're just too simple. There's little sense of progression and once you get the map it becomes too easy. Especially in
Medoh and Ruta. Medoh is just tilt and fly down to everything, Ruta is just get on top of the trunk and fly down to everything. Maybe if they treated the map like the dungeon item in previous games, made it a challenge to acquire in the first place, and forced the player to navigate most of the dungeon without it first,
Vah Naboris is an exception though. I felt the puzzle for that one was actually complex and got me thinking, and there was even a sense of progression,
starting with the terminals in the center, then using electricity to further manipulate the dungeon, and then moving to the upper area. Just figuring out how to get to the upper area was a great feeling.
As someone who likes gyro aiming in this and other games, the gyro puzzles in BotW suck. They're just not accurate and most of the time I'm just randomly guessing because moving my gamepad left rarely results in moving the puzzle left. The only saving grace is that most of them can be cheesed requiring mininal gyro use.
R
Rodin
Unconfirmed Member
The problem with this is that the shrines in BotW are all underground. If they weren't, they should've had a certain size on the outside that reflected the size indoor. Also if they are broken and overtaken by the environment this should be reflected from the outside as well, so maybe you have different ways to access them? Then the puzzles inside need to reflect that as well in terms of design and how you can/need to solve them.
I mean sure, they can manage to do this in the next game, and it would be cool, but it's easy to see why it doesn't work like this in BotW (not only in terms of lore but even in terms of time needed to actually design each and every one of them). Either way, it doesn't strike me as something that should influence too much the judgement of this chapter. The most important things is how good the puzzles are, and the answer is... very, very good in most of them. That's what matters the most in terms of game design, arguably.
That's certainly not how i did it. I agree with the second point you made though, and with what you said about the Naboris.
"You" don't want to do them. Ok, noted.
In fact, i never claimed they were. That's not the resemblance i was talking about.
They aren't required to adjust to specific environments either. In fact, there's no actual reason why they'd do that, especially considering what's the role of the Shrines.
Stereogatari
Banned
I disliked the ones involving manipulating a ball. Very frustrating.
But the one I just did that didn't involve the balls was pretty cool. Manipulation of stairways and such. I enjoyed this one.
The robo-pseudo-future theme of the shrines gives the sense that they are all connected. But of course, they are not. Maybe we're meant to assume the whole buried civilization was designed that way. If so, it wasn't much to look at.
I don't mind the scenery repetition but it's not like much would be lost with a little variation.
Then again, they also feel like distinctly artificial spaces, and are thus clearly separate from the overworld. It does feel like stepping into another space entirely.
I don't mind the scenery repetition but it's not like much would be lost with a little variation.
Then again, they also feel like distinctly artificial spaces, and are thus clearly separate from the overworld. It does feel like stepping into another space entirely.
LegendofLex
Member
I'm sure I'm not the only one.
What resemblance are you talking about, then?
Labyrinthine design? Lots of secret passages? Enemies everywhere? A boss room at the end?
Because none of that shit is going on in the Divine Beasts.
They aren't required to, but clearly people think it's dumb that they didn't, and there doesn't even really seem to be a compelling reason why they don't.
It would be helpful if you could list some dungeons that have that escalation of puzzles. Because I don't think what you have in BotW isn't too dissimilar than a normal Zelda puzzle.
Glass Shark
Banned
Just finished the Tarrey Town quest line. This is my new favorite place.
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