I wonder what the likes of Cameron, May et al think when they close their eyes at night and realise that history will record them as the ones responsible not only from a calamitous exit from the EU, but also presiding over the break up of the UK. That's one hell of a legacy.
UK set to trigger Brexit on March 29
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PJV3
Member
EleventhHour will be here in his HRH QE II underpants with this kind of talk.
AlexFlame116
Member
This may sound really stupid and insensitive, but honestly it's going to be crazy seeing some of the future generations read the history books where they will see all these people who started Brexit. But no praise, only infamy.
That is of course if Trump doesn't accidentally kill us all by the time that happens.
Theonik
Member
Like people have said before, Spain only opposes an independent Scotland rejoining if a) It leaves unconstitutionally and/or b) It is allowed to retain automatic EU membership upon leaving.
Provided both conditions are met they don't pose a threat as far as Catalonia is concerned so Spain doesn't care. The reason why Spain is doing this is twofold. While they don't want to annex Gibraltar they want the issue on the table as leverage and it is a political point domestically. This is just their way of pressuring Britain.
Well the headline is misleading. As has been mentioned many times before, they never actually said they would veto Scotland. All they've done is continue to confirm that they won't.
Like they would give a shit
Cameron would. His legacy is pretty much all he seemed to care about.
Not EleventhHourSuperpower, he thinks, and I quote, "Nationalism in all forms is bad"
boxoctosis
Member
Which is double funny, as his legacy will be "worst Prime Minister we ever had."
Jezbollah
Member
Not even close to Tony Blair.
Am from gibraltar and i can assure you if spain got power over the rock .... the people here would defend it from spain till death 😊We would rather go down fighting and dying over this tiny rock than give it up. Also It goes against 99% of what the population want.. so what about spains major corruption and bankruptcy or making 6 hour long border queue when we are suppose to have free movement eh? why doesn't the EU do something about that first instead of using gibraltar as a pawn in negotiations. Democracy is a shame in our days.... 😤
That's... debatable. Certainly the Iraq War was awful, but Cameron allowing the EU Referendum to go through will have vastly worse long-term consequences for the British people. Not to mention the uptick in racism and hate-crimes that's already occurred.
Jezbollah
Member
Consequences for the British people? How about those who got killed due to his enablement of the Foreign policies in Iraq and Afghanistan? And the consequences of those actions in the spawning of ISIL?
If that angle doesn't concern you, how about Blair's immigration policies in his Governments contributing to anti-immigration sentiment resulting in the Labour heartlands voting Leave? There are plenty of root causes of the Leave vote that leads to Blair.
That racism and those hate crimes have decades of resentment that have been enabled (or given the perception of enablement) by the EU referendum vote. A lot of it goes back to the deals made in 1992 and 1973. You're incredibly short sighted if you think all this goes back just a few years.
That is what you get when you're outside of Schengen. That isn't Spain's fault. That is on your government.
boxoctosis
Member
On the debit side for Dave;
the EU referendum, held for all the wrong reasons, which he contrived to lose
austerity
Pig fucking
On the credit side;
???
The man was useless.
Really you live here?!? Do you know the tactics that they employ?! Whats the point of creating 6 hour queue when you wake up on the wrong side of the bed .... schengen or not why would you be cruel like that?
The point am making if there is queues make it justifiable due to security or some other good reason not because you have a grudge on the people !
His point was that if Gibraltar would have been in Schengen there would have been no border control, thus no queue.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
1º Schengen
2º Being dicks.
But the plight of Gibraltar was head loud and clear during the campaign and the UK/Brexiters decided that you didn't matter. Maybe Gibraltarians should start focusing on that too instead of Rajoy being a turd as per usual.
I have no issues with border controls its the way theydo it without any reason other than to cause pain to the people here. Personally it doesn't affect me as i only travel to uk and other destinations from there.
Spot on its number 2!
Well, for a start, I didn't say I wasn't "concerned" by the effects of the Iraq War. Though let's not forget that it would have happened anyway, with Bush/Cheney in charge, so Blair's lack-of-participation in it would not have substantially affected the rise of Daesh (though it would obviously have affected number of British Armed Forces killed).
As to your comment about Blair's anti-immigration policy, I didn't say (or imply) that he was blameless. If you wish to infer that from my comment, by all means, but you may as well also infer that I don't blame the Red-Tops anti-foreigner sentiment (though I do). If you're going to just assume things about my thought process, then go the whole-hog.
Finally, what I did mean to imply (and in fact actually said) was that Cameron's decision to follow-though with his commitment to have an EU Referendum will undoubtedly have worse effects for the UK than Blair's lock-step with Bush or any of his national policies, some of which were not altogether bad. Cameron is directly responsible for the EU Referendum, and as such, is directly responsible for the UK leaving the EU - the buck stops with Cameron.
Also, this:
Unless Blair fucked more farmyard animals, I think we can say he's better than Cameron.
It is simply your government that caused that harm. If you had been in Schengen, there wouldn't be need for border checks. Spain doesn't have to give a fuck on how long they make you wait, they are just doing their job, keeping the outside border of the EU safe. Something your government wants them to do. Your problem with Spain could have been easily resolved by your country. Your own country doesn't really care about Gibraltar, or Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland for that matter.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
Point 2 can't exist without 1.
But again, everybody knew that Gibraltar was in for a lot of trouble if the Brexit vote came through and RAH-RAH-RAH nationalists decided to throw the rock into the shit bin just to make a point about immigration of all things. And of course, the Government also turned their backs at Gibraltar during the campaign.
Maybe, just maybe, the UK doesn't give much of a toss about Gibraltar. Maybe it's time to reevaluate things and notice that at best you are being treated as a pawn by both countries.
On this we agree. 2010-2015 Tories were all about fiscal responsibility and balancing the books. Whether you agree or disagree with austerity, their approach was clear and consistent and the coalition era wasn't so horrendous.
And then boom, you have the EU referendum as a means to quiet a rebellion from nutters within and without your own party which backfires spectacularly and all the austerity of the previous 5 years counts for diddly-squat. The biggest 180 since the Xbox One reveal. Cameron and co. have managed to tank our currency and pepper public finances with pot holes here, there and everywhere thanks to uprooting the stability that our EU membership provided. NHS, R&D, technology? Good luck there.
Gay marriage is about the only worthwhile thing under Cameron's tenure and let's be honest, that would've happened without him.
This is why the Tories got into power again and why they're polling so well. People were fooled into believing they're not too bad. They were only so restrained because of the coalition government and seems like the lib dems alone got the burden of dislike for compromising.
The new generations are going to have to learn the hard way that you cannot trust the Tories.
The new generations are going to have to learn the hard way that you cannot trust the Tories.
The Hardest Brexit, War with the EU. They'll give us a good deal when the Union Jack flies over Brussels.
Hah, yeah I'm sure that's the case...
WhateverItTakes
Banned
Hell, my mum got suckered into May's 'equality' speech when she got into number 10. I feel like my policy in the next general will be anyone but them*
*As long as the alternative isn't like Farage or some shit.
PJV3
Member
Yeah it seems really bizarre in the current situation. I'd go for being an autonomous Spanish region after getting shafted by England and Wales.
Orniletter
Banned
There'll be a price to pay either way, I don't see the EU27 agree to just leave the UK in under their stupidly good conditions after causing so many problems over the years.
I could see the brit rebate on the chopping block.
Then they'd have to pay a fair level of tax....
The sheer stupidity of some of these people is just astonishing.
Ignoring the fact spain has no real ambitions to annex Gibraltar it's just insane what kind of bullshit nationalism can produce
More taxes or death
I know what i would choose
PJV3
Member
Everything he did post-coalition will be glossed over going forward. He's going to go down in history as being a largely ineffectual PM who ran an ineffectual coalition and gambled by thinking he wouldn't get a majority in the election afterwards. While he caused brexit, May is going to be the face next to all the truly crippling news and decisions from it.
The biggest flash point will be over territorial waters, it's flared up a couple of times when both were members of the single markets and common fisheries policy, it flared up regularly pre 1986 and pre 1992 and will become a big issue when the UK leave especially if Spain isolates Gibraltar.
The UK's claim on territorial waters are bit weaker than their claim on the port itself, and basically boils down to we've been here a while now. The Treaty of Utrecht only gave Britain the forts and port, it didn't give them the isthmus to the north.
I thought that was always the case more or less but good to hear it anyway.
As for Scotland in the EU and rUK not, has Republic of Ireland had a trading problem with the UK over more than a decade with the Euro currency?
Now that we are to be a sovereign nation again, we must bring back imperial units - Simon Heffer, Telegraph.
Brexit goes against the will of the 96 % that voted remain, blame the UK not Spain.
You know you've fucked up when when the corrupt and incompetent Rajoy`s cabinet played you like a damn fiddle. It goes to show you that either the UK doesn´t give a shit about Gibraltar or that May/Boris & co negotiation skills are at Trumps levels of incompetence.
Also It's funny how people always bring out the same silly counter-arguments against Spain when all that really matters is not losing the incentives and benefits of being a tax haven.
Baby boomers want to have a night light of familiarity before they all start dying off.
Can Crusher
Banned
UK trying to bully a trade deal on defense fears is funny. More and more I hope they get the worst deal possible.
PJV3
Member
No stopping until we are using stone tools and living in henges.
Even if Spain tries to claim some of the territorial waters during the negotiation suggesting war between two NATO allies is ludicrous.
These people talk so much shit. Are they even from the same planet. It's like some mainland Euro person stole their cornflakes one day and are holding a grudge ever since. Delusion. Blue fucking passports is the other thing people are talking about.
I'm not suggesting war for a second, I'm saying flashpoints: i.e closures, fishing boats straying, interdictions etc. That was a regular occurrence in the 1980's.
PJV3
Member
Old money, get used to the idea.
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