SEGA teases Bayonetta + Steam, countdown to April 11

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badcrumble said:
Yep, Bayo 2 allowed enemies to parry out of combos basically at random (which seriously broke the main functioning of dodge offset), it weakened the basic Wicked Weave combo finishers, it took away the magic penalty for getting hit, and it made too much of the game all about abusing Witch Time and especially Umbran Climax (damage output was basically retooled completely around the assumption that you'd be working your way up to Umbran Climax, then nuking all onscreen enemies with it, repeatedly).

The first game's gameplay loop of evasive combat + chip damage to raise your Magic + successful wicked weave finishers for actual damage output + good gameplay allowing torture attacks which then give you angel weapons for crazy damage output got disrupted in the second game, where there's less penalty for getting hit and you do more damage basically ignoring torture attacks and just unleashing Umbran Climax (which, by the way, is totally overpowered and basically stunlocks everything onscreen).
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The weapons having more unique movesets felt a little wasted given that air combos weren't a reliable source of damage, even on the humanoid bosses where it seems like they cut their combo stagger time in half. My main issues with the game are nothing that could be fixed with Cheat Engine on an emulator or something, but since a PC port has such a low chance of happening, I didn't feel bad dropping the game. The presentation was great, though.
 
prudislav said:
Seems like we just got the SEGA reveal

Its more Nepu :-P
C9EyKcQV0AAR42i.jpg
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When's the North American Sega Hard Girls bluray dropping tho
 
Tetsuo9999 said:
The weapons having more unique movesets felt a little wasted given that air combos weren't a reliable source of damage, even on the humanoid bosses where it seems like they cut their combo stagger time in half. My main issues with the game are nothing that could be fixed with Cheat Engine on an emulator or something, but since a PC port has such a low chance of happening, I didn't feel bad dropping the game. The presentation was great, though.
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Yeah. Bayo 2's polish on the presentation side is much, much better (not just in terms of animation quantity/quality, but also removing pain points like instakill QTEs and Angel Attack), but Bayo 1's polish on the gameplay fine-tuning side is far superior.
 
Pyramid head said:
Couldn't disagree more about the arsenal.

Love is Blue: Same pistols, a different colour and a new different animations.

Kafka: Fun animation but of absolutely no value as a weapon.

Rakshasa: Weak, but probably my favourite of the few weapons.

Undine: Unsatisfying, slow and boring.

Chernobog: Looks great, but never really found much use for it. Didn't seem particularly good at any one thing.

Takemikazuchi: Sloooooooooooooooooooow and dull.

Salamandra: Stupidly OP, repetitive moveset and the only weapon worth using if going for PP runs.

Chain Chomp: Fun gimmick but again, didn't find it particularly useful for anything.


Something which Bayonetta 2 is sorely lacking is any sort of high impact/powerful projectile weapon. Bayo 1 had Onyx Roses (shotguns) and Kilgore (rocket launchers). Those weapons added an entirely different mechanic to Bayo 1's combat by allowing you to control enemies at a distance and was invaluable on NSIC. It was also fun to just kill the occasional angel without even pressing an attack button and just rock jump of their heads once in a while. Bayonetta 2 has nothing to do the job.
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Agreed. And let's not talk about how shitty and poorly balanced infinite climax is in Bayo 2.
 
Mifec said:
If we buy it then we get Bayo 3 on PC, no point in console versions where it won't sell
the more platforms the better
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Don't worry, even if it sells 10x what the console versions did, SEGA are dumb enough that they wouldn't hesitate to skip PC if they were publishing a sequel.
Valkyria Chronicles did very well on PC considering that the port was six years late, and they proceeded to do absolutely nothing with that success except re-release the game on PS4.

If it is a Bayonetta port, it's already very poorly timed, coming right after NieR:Automata. That can only hurt the sales.
NieR:Automata is a big game that requires multiple playthroughs to finish, while Bayonetta is a much shorter, more straightforward game that's more than seven years old now.
It would have been a lot smarter to release it a month or two before Automata was released. I'm nowhere close to finishing it yet.
 
Paragon said:
Don't worry, even if it sells 10x what the console versions did, SEGA are dumb enough that they wouldn't hesitate to skip PC if they were publishing a sequel.
Valkyria Chronicles did very well on PC considering that the port was six years late, and they proceeded to do absolutely nothing with that success except re-release the game on PS4.

If it is a Bayonetta port, it's already very poorly timed, coming right after NieR:Automata. That can only hurt the sales.
NieR:Automata is a big game that requires multiple playthroughs to finish, while Bayonetta is a much shorter, more straightforward game that's more than seven years old now.
It would have been a lot smarter to release it a month or two before Automata was released. I'm nowhere close to finishing it yet.
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If it is the Bayonetta port, it is probably actually due to Nier Automata's success. Or it probably isn't and Sega are too blind to realize that people actually want these games.
 
nailbombxx said:
If it is the Bayonetta port, it is probably actually due to Nier Automata's success. Or it probably isn't and Sega are too blind to realize that people actually want these games.
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Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance has sold 3x as many copies as NieR:Automata on Steam if they wanted to gauge the success of Platinum games on the platform.
And obviously they have data for Valkyria Chronicles and many more games from other publishers which shows that niche Japanese games can do well on Steam.
They're not alone in being boneheaded about it though. Square Enix knows that their games sell well on Steam, but there's been no news of Final Fantasy XV - though I'm sure it will turn up 6-12 months from now.
 
nailbombxx said:
If it is the Bayonetta port, it is probably actually due to Nier Automata's success. Or it probably isn't and Sega are too blind to realize that people actually want these games.
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Normally, I'd think "too blind" is tantamount to lazy dev, but after reading the Peter Moore interview I'm inclined to agree : / Even if the options are limited, support for resolutions + unlocked fps would probably give you enough sales for at least a small turnaround on whatever it costs to port it to PC.
 
nailbombxx said:
If it is the Bayonetta port, it is probably actually due to Nier Automata's success. Or it probably isn't and Sega are too blind to realize that people actually want these games.
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Maybe they didn't want it to be like the PS3 port that Sega handled?

Assuming it comes out in the next...month, it's too soon to say it was done because of 1 game doing well. If I had to wager a guess, it's a hard game to port and didn't sell well initially, so it has very few resources attached to it.
 
badcrumble said:
The campaign has better pacing (and fewer pain points), the arsenal is more truly diverse and interesting, but the boss fights don't reach the same highs as Bayo 1, the basic gameplay loop is *much* less great, there's a lot less in the way of unlockables, and so on.

It basically all evens out. They're both amazing games but each carries some pretty indisputable advantages over the other.
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This was my opinion too. B2 gets a lot of points over B1 straight off the bat for getting rid of the "critical" QTEs, and just making them into flourishes for big fights like they should have been. It's a more technically solid game at the lower levels of gameplay even if it loses that high-level shine that B1 had, that's where the Nintendo influence shines through to have a stronger set of basics, better polish, and a more intuitive gameplay flow, at the expense of some of B1's excesses and a generally less compelling set of bosses (although Hell was awesome).
 
BasilZero said:
what happens when you delete it afterwards....?
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Nothing. As long as you've registered the game to your account, it'll remain playable. You'll just have to run steam://install/567090 to install it once the store page is gone.

Lumination said:
Why does it disappear from my library when I uninstall it?
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To expand on what Echoplx said, that behaviour is a relic from when all free content was dumped into the "Steam" package that is automagically registered to new accounts upon creation; it prevented user libraries from being flooded with entries for not only free games but also demos. I can understand Valve not wanting content registered with a Free on Demand package to count as owned so that bot accounts and the like can't artificially increase their game/DLC count in an effort to appear legitimate, but the lack of library tethering doesn't make much sense anymore -- for the stuff still in the "Steam" package, sure, but a Free on Demand licence really should tether the included apps to your library. It's actually possible to permanently affix a free game to your library by purchasing DLC or registering it to your account with a purchasable store package/retail key, but obviously neither apply to 8-bit Bayonetta or indeed many other free games.
 
As long as we're throwing shade at Bayo2, I'll take the opportunity to mention the most unforgivable part of the game to me: the invisible cooldown on attacking out of Panther Offset.

The delay in attacking out of Panther Offset feels terrible. It causes your buttons to not function with no audio or visual feedback. It makes your actions sluggish and delayed. I used to think that they killed Panther Offset for balance reasons, but then they went ahead and put blatantly broken shit in the game like Rosa / Bracelet of Time / the whip boots. Bayo2 insists that you play with a linear Attack->Witch Time->Wicked Weave->repeat style, and making Panther Offset control terribly is one of their numerous inelegant ways of enforcing that. Compared to Bayo1, where Attacking/Moving/Dodging is a single seamless stream of actions that you're free to apply however you want, Bayo2's linear combat is dreadfully boring.

Credit where credit's due: Bayo2 has a lot of nice QoL features and is more beginner friendly than Bayo1. Those are good things. But if/when Platinum makes Bayo3, I hope that they have the good sense to not repeat the same blunders that they made with Bayo2.

On topic: I'm super hyped for tomorrow. If it's anything less than a Bayo1 release for Steam then I swear I'll be in tears.
 
JaseC said:
Nothing. As long as you've registered the game to your account, it'll remain playable. You'll just have to run steam://install/567090 to install it once the store page is gone.



To expand on what Echoplx said, that behaviour is a relic from when all free content was dumped into the "Steam" package that is automagically registered to new accounts upon creation as it prevented user libraries from being flooded with entries for not only free games but also demos. There's no reason for it these days, though.

There are a couple of ways to permanently affix a free game to your library: purchase DLC or register it to your account with a purchasable store package or a retail key, but obviously neither apply to 8-bit Bayonetta.
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I still have Codename Gordon from all those years ago that can only be installed using a link like that. Weird to see this kind of method show up again.

Now we're getting closer to the end of the countdown I'm getting nervous. If it turns out to be anything but what we're expecting I'm going to feel like a fool

Edit: I think Codename Gordon still installs for everyone though? steam://install/92
Just can't appear in the store and doesn't stay in your library when uninstalled
 
Adaren said:
As long as we're throwing shade at Bayo2, I'll take the opportunity to mention the most unforgivable part of the game to me: the invisible cooldown on attacking out of Panther Offset.

The delay in attacking out of Panther Offset feels terrible. It causes your buttons to not function with no audio or visual feedback. It makes your actions sluggish and delayed. I used to think that they killed Panther Offset for balance reasons, but then they went ahead and put blatantly broken shit in the game like Rosa / Bracelet of Time / the whip boots. Bayo2 insists that you play with a linear Attack->Witch Time->Wicked Weave->repeat style, and making Panther Offset control terribly is one of their numerous inelegant ways of enforcing that. Compared to Bayo1, where Attacking/Moving/Dodging is a single seamless stream of actions that you're free to apply however you want, Bayo2's linear combat is dreadfully boring.

Credit where credit's due: Bayo2 has a lot of nice QoL features and is more beginner friendly than Bayo1. Those are good things. But if/when Platinum makes Bayo3, I hope that they have the good sense to not repeat the same blunders that they made with Bayo2.

On topic: I'm super hyped for tomorrow. If it's anything less than a Bayo1 release for Steam then I swear I'll be in tears.
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Bayonetta 2 has a lot less freedom and potential for the player to create their own playstyle/identity for sure. A lot of the high level gameplay videos for the first game that involved a lot of ground-air-ground combat can't function the same way in the second game. Once I realized I couldn't do aerial stuff anymore without the enemies teching out, I dropped it.

What is the broken stuff you're talking about? Can you elaborate?
 
guybrushfreeman said:
Now we're getting closer to the end of the countdown I'm getting nervous. If it turns out to be anything but what we're expecting I'm going to feel like a fool
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Honestly, as long as you kept your expectations in check and didn't go crazy with Bayo 2 and 3 (???) nonsense, then you don't have anything to worry about. This was way too low-key to be anything bigger than a Bayo 1 PC port.

If it turns out to not even be that, then SEGA are the fools. This would be a monumentally stupid way to tease anything else since they know damn well how much people want PC ports of their stuff.
 
guybrushfreeman said:
I still have Codename Gordon from all those years ago that can only be installed using a link like that. Weird to see this kind of method show up again.

Now we're getting closer to the end of the countdown I'm getting nervous. If it turns out to be anything but what we're expecting I'm going to feel like a fool

Edit: I think Codename Gordon still installs for everyone though? steam://install/92
Just can't appear in the store and doesn't stay in your library when uninstalled
Click to expand...

Yeah, Codename Gordon is still playable. It was reportedly removed from the store some time after the Nuclearvision devs parted ways as the domain used for the in-game website banner expired and later began hosting dubious/explicit ads.
 
FLD said:
Honestly, as long as you kept your expectations in check and didn't go crazy with Bayo 2 and 3 (???) nonsense, then you don't have anything to worry about. This was way too low-key to be anything bigger than a Bayo 1 PC port.

If it turns out to not even be that, then SEGA are the fools. This would be a monumentally stupid way to tease anything else since they know damn well how much people want PC ports of their stuff.
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Oh yeah. I mean the Bayo 1 PC port. There's no chance of anything other than that
 
Tetsuo9999 said:
What is the broken stuff you're talking about? Can you elaborate?
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If you meant the OP stuff, the Rosa / Bracelet of Time were just gamebreakingly overpowered. It's fine to have godmode options for messing around (like The Climax Brace), but it was annoying to have them take the spots of a character and accessory that should have offered unique, balanced gameplay options. Whip boots weren't super broken, but they were boring and spammy and way more damaging than they had any right to be.

If you meant my Panther Offset rant, then it was this super annoying thing where after you entered Panther Form you couldn't punch or kick for, like, a second. It killed the fast-paced flow of Panther Offseting that the first game had. It's really flabbergasting that Platinum added it, but maybe it's not that surprising given how strict Bayo2 is about your play style.

Thankfully, Bayo1 has none of those problems! Please please please be a good port.
 
So is it four hours until blastoff? A few pages back people were talking about some timezone-related stuff with the countdown, so I don't know if it's accurate any more.
 
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