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[Skyzard]

Technically we hadn't seen 3D Mario in a 2D style before 3D land and world, the difference is there wasn't a more a more cut down version of Galaxy available handhelds before it released etc otherwise you wouldn't really be able call that ambitious either.

3D mario in a 2D style is playing it hella safe. I know why they did it, but I wanted something else.

Yes, it would have been challenging to design (especially the camera) for multiplayer, which I also wanted in a 3D mario.

It's only a "world" as a throwback to super mario world.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

It's simple but not ambitious at all. Extremely safe, standard gameplay we've been used to for years (made even safer with a fucking meowing mario). Not like a mario 64 or when they pushed out galaxy. Hell even going back to Sunshine I was excited by the world.

It's a slap in the face that they called it 3D Mario World tbh.

But it looks pretty and it controls fine so, you know, it'll do.

Its saving grace is local multiplayer, which was new in a 3D-ish mario.

The game wasnt abitious because? I don't get the lala land people that think Galaxy was ambitious are living in. Its an extremely good game but what about it is actually new and exciting vs 64 and sunshine? The extremely minimal use of a gravity mechanic?

 

[whatsinaname]

It's simple but not ambitious at all. Extremely safe, standard gameplay we've been used to for years (made even safer with a fucking meowing mario). Not like a mario 64 or when they pushed out galaxy. Hell even going back to Sunshine I was excited by the world.

It's a slap in the face that they called it 3D Mario World tbh.

But it looks pretty and it controls fine so, you know, it'll do.

I personally think 4 player 3d platforming is very ambitious. Especially considering how well it plays in co-op.

 

[royox]

It is actually the best 3D Platformer.

Not in a universe where Galaxy and Galaxy 2 exist.

 

[LordKano]

Okay.

This is the type of game that most game magazines and articles would describe as isometric 2D.

Exact ! As you can see, all assets are rendered in 2D and there's no models but only sprites here, despite offering the illusion of 3D movements. Back in its time, it was a revolution and helped to make the transition to 3D gameplay, while offering more variety to 16-bit games.

Now, look at a SM3DW screenshot. Is it the same ?

 

[nkarafo]

Oh my comparison a few posts up was a joke. You actually think you could remake 3D World in a Super Mario RPG style?

Yes.

Exact ! As you can see, all assets are rendered in 2D and there's no models but only sprites here, despite offering the illusion of 3D movements. Back in its time, it was a revolution and helped to make the transition to 3D gameplay, while offering more variety to 16-bit games.

Now, look at a SM3DW screenshot. Is it the same ?

It PLAYS the same.

The restrictive camera would allow most of the game to be remade with such style.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

Not in a universe where Galaxy and Galaxy 2 exist.

I like 3D World more than Galaxy 1. If people think 3D world is boring early on I have no idea how you can even play Galaxy

3D Worlds end game is also way better.

 

[InfiniteCombo]

I simply can't agree. My fiance and I have a recorded 60 hours in 3D World according to the activity log and not once could we adjust the camera because we were playing co-op, it was never an issue. The default view is always perfect.

If we're faulting 3D World for being archaic then we should complain about grab and run being the same button, I accidently threw her off the edge more times than I care to admit.

The bolded, ehhh... Not quite true, in my opinion. For the last section of Champion's Road, I wish the camera view was ever so slightly different. I agree with everything else you've said about 3D World so far, though. An all around amazing game.

 

[WeirdoStalkerJr]

Yes.

That game would be god...

 

[boiled goose]

It has 3D graphics. That's about it. It doesn't make a huge difference in it's design like, say, Mario 64 does.

Mario 64 would never work as a port on a machine that only supports 2D graphics. Most of Mario 3D World would work as a 2D isometric game.

Holy shit. Is every linear game now not real 3d? 3d world would not work without being realized in 3 dimensions. Movement in x y z is important in every single way.

Uncharted is not a real 3d game. You heard it hear.

Have you even played 3d world? It's every bit as 3d in regards to it's platforming as 64 is. It's objectives are linear. The moment to moment gameplay is almost identical.

Your post doesn't make any sense

 

[Magic Mushroom]

As a huge Mario 64, Galaxy 1-2, sunshine fan I absolutely hated Mario 3D world on Wii U. I found it to be easy, bland and the multiplayer was just slapped in because it needed it. I thought maybe it was the children who were wrong and not me...and when I saw the trailer for odyssey I came to the conclusion that yes the children were wrong because odyssey looks phenomenal.

3D World is by far the hardest 3D Mario to 100 percent. Now, 64, that's an easy game to get all the stars in.

It's also much more of a platformer. The platforming in 64 is really basic, even though Mario has a great moveset, and there are hardly any enemies to worry about. 3D World has more in common with 2D Marios, wich are obstacle courses first and foremost.

 

[LordKano]

Yes.


It PLAYS the same.

How to say it with proper words...

No, it doesn't. Fucking hell.

 

[Neptonic]

Okay.

This is the type of game that most game magazines and articles would describe as isometric 2D. If it's the wrong words educate me about the right ones.

LMAO
Bro SM3DW wouldn't work with those types of graphics at all

 

[Kodaman]

Is this a real thread?

It's a 2.5D thread

 

[Randomizer]

Sunshine has about 40 shines that are fun to play (maybe a bit more or less I haven't really counted). Rest of it is either broken, feels like a chore, or is pure padding with no actual fun platforming involved. It also really lack variety in environment.

Sunshine has a great move set though, too bad it doesn't really leverage it.

That was a problem with many of Nintendo's early GameCube games especailly Wind Waker. Everything felt rushed and unfinished and needed at least 6 months to a year more in the oven. For as good as they were, Sunshine and Wind Waker would have been astronomically better had the devs been given the time and not been forced to cut so much content.

 

[Jonneh3003]

The bolded, ehhh... Not quite true, in my opinion. For the last section of Champion's Road, I wish the camera view was ever so slightly different. I agree with everything else you've said about 3D World so far, though. An all around amazing game.

Perhaps "perfect" was hyperbole but it's a very good 3D camera that seems tailored for pretty much every segment of a level.

 

[The Horror the horror]

Not in a universe where Galaxy and Galaxy 2 exist.

 

[groansey]

3D World is horrible. The worst 3D Mario. Hated the 8 direction controls and lack of world cohesion. Desert level followed by a snow level followd by whatever. Just no. It felt the most like the 2D games in 3D, but Galaxy towers above it. Even Sunshine is better.

 

[boiled goose]

LMAO
Bro SM3DW wouldn't work with those types of graphics at all

If 3d world works there. Then so does 64. And Every single other 3d game.

It's a completely nonsensical argument.

 

[AGoodODST]

Yes.


It PLAYS the same.

The restrictive camera would allow most of the game to be remade with such style.

Super Mario 3D Blast.

Seriously though, nah. Not even the first stage of 3D World would work like that.

 

[Moze]

People need to accept the fact Rare games were never that good. Alot of them were actually broken.

 

[nkarafo]

How to say it with proper words...

No, it doesn't. Fucking hell.

LMAO
Bro SM3DW wouldn't work with those types of graphics at all

Ok. Why?

My argument is the position of the camera. It always gives you a similar point of view and, as you say, the game is designed in a way so you don't need to adjust it.

Are there any scenes in the game where this wouldn't work? Sure, there might be some but i don't remember any right now.

 

[Puruzi]

3D World is horrible. The worst 3D Mario. Hated the 8 direction controls and lack of world cohesion. Desert level followed by a snow level followd by whatever. Just no. It felt the most like the 2D games in 3D, but Galaxy towers above it. Even Sunshine is better.

Nah, best platforming and level design from any 3D Mario game. 3D World destroys all others.

 

[C.Mongler]

Oh boy, here comes weeks of Yooka Laylee Defense Force. I don't understand how you both compare it to a 2D isometric game, but then expect it to have a full-3D camera in the same statement. It's a game that's entirely designed around having a forced perspective. You don't need a full-3D view of the level; it was designed that way. That's the "3D blank" schtick. You can argue whether or not it does the schtick well or if it's warranted, sure, but you're asking "But what if it was a different game and why does this other different game not get a pass for being a different game?" It's a convoluted and pointless question.

 

[thepenguin55]

So for my money Super Mario 3D World and 3D Land both do fixed camera angles better for their entire games than Yooka-Laylee can do in the few fixed camera angle sections it has. Also, in my opinion the camera is rarely ever a problem in 3D World or 3D Land whereas the camera is regularly a problem in Yooka-Laylee.

Having said that, I agree that the lack of analog movement in 3D World and 3D Land is lame but the controls at least aren't terrible. IMO 3D World and 3D Land are just top to bottom better games than Yooka-Laylee.

 

[Jonneh3003]

How to say it with proper words...

No, it doesn't. Fucking hell.

I usually welcome different opinions but I'm just not getting your arguement OP.

 

[LordKano]

Ok. Why?

My argument is the position of the camera. It always gives you a similar point of view and, as you say, the game is designed in a way so you don't need to adjust it.

Are there any scenes in the game where this wouldn't work? Sure, there might be some but i don't remember any right now.

The very first scene in the very first level. The first thing you see in game couldn't possibly work in your fantasy.

 

[nkarafo]

If 3d world works there. Then so does 64. And Every single other 3d game.

It's a completely nonsensical argument.

In Mario 64 you need to manually adjust the camera almost all the time.

So, no.

 

[VDenter]

Sunshine has about 40 shines that are fun to play (maybe a bit more or less I haven't really counted). Rest of it is either broken, feels like a chore, or is pure padding with no actual fun platforming involved. It also really lack variety in environment.

Sunshine has a great move set though, too bad it doesn't really leverage it.

Edit: Oh I forgot swimming, for a game with so much water in it, Sunshine probably has some of the worst swimming mechanics in a high budget 3D game.

Interesting that you mentioned Swimming since it has the exact same swimming like in 3D World. That might be the only point a agree with you on though since the swimming mechanic was a clear step down from 64.

The rest eh, Once you realized how basic most missions in 64 were Sunshine does feel like a step up even with the padded out shines. The only broken one might be the infamous pachinko one, Even just running around and collecting coins in Sunshine and 64 despite them being filler missions felt great because the core mechanics were great. No amount of varied level design can make up for the huge step back 3D World took in terms of mechanics especially when the game is so easy it might be the easiest Mario game ever released and that is a huge problem. Not to mention most of its variety is really not all that special since it lifts 99% of it from other Mario games making the whole game feel like its all been done before as a result.

 

[Jonneh3003]

People need to accept the fact Rare games were never that good. Alot of them were actually broken.

This is almost as bad as the "Sonic was never good" crew.

 

[Fahzgoolin]

First person games aren't archaic because DooM 95 invented it.

3D World was an expertly crafted game with a locked/fixed camera.

 

[Calamari41]

Calling a game archaic implies that it is not improved or polished compared to a game of that style from the era in which those types games were initially released.

Not liking the gameplay style doesn't make it archaic. Some very vocal people on this board don't like 3D World's style, but I don't think many would call it a mechanically unsound game. I'm probably wrong though, someone will likely quote this and say that they think 3D World plays worse than Sonic 3D Blast.

 

[Randomizer]

People need to accept the fact Rare games were never that good. Alot of them were actually broken.

The first Banjo and Kazooie is a legit masterpiece. Banjo Tooie and Donkey Kong 64 were too big for their own good. Conker was also great but it's very different to traditional 3D platformers.

 

[Formless]

Well Shovel Knight isn't even 3D, but nobody complained

 

[Moze]

This is almost as bad as the "Sonic was never good" crew.

But Sonic was never that good. Levels were designed to run through instead of actual challenging platforming. The platforming that was there was just off.

Crash Bandicoot was always good, though.

The first Banjo and Kazooie is a legit masterpiece. Banjo Tooie and Donkey Kong 64 were too big for their own good. Conker was also great but it's very different to traditional 3D platformers.

Banjo is their best game. It's not a masterpiece though. Conker is an objectively bad game. It's really bad if you go back. There is even a playthrough on youtube of the game designers playing it and becoming frustrated by how poor it is. Like, there are sections where they struggle to advance because the game is broken.

 

[Eumi]

Archaic isn't used to denote old. It's used to denote outdated, something that has since been improved on.

Like, the wheel is old, but that doesn't mean that all cars are archaic. It depends on how you're using the things that make up your game.

You like Yooka-Laylee. Great! But a lot of people don't.

You don't like 3D World. Great! But a lot of people do.

You don't have to attempt to empirically prove your opinion as the correct one. People didn't enjoy a game because of the gameplay elements that make up that game. Which is as legitimate a reason to dislike a game there is.

 

[Jonneh3003]

The first Banjo and Kazooie is a legit masterpiece. Banjo Tooie and Donkey Kong 64 were too big for their own good. Conker was also great but it's very different to traditional 3D platformers.

I agree and this seems to be the problem with Yooka-Laylee too, we probably would have had a better game if the project was on a smaller scale.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

In Mario 64 you need to manually adjust the camera almost all the time.

So, no.

The camera in 3D World is fixed in the sense you dont control it. That doesnt mean the camera doesnt swing to adjust to the level layout. Those chase levels with the black things for example have multiple view points. You cant do that in 2D isometric. The level where you chase the flag pole.

Even so why does that matter. Fixed camera is a design choice. You have play God of War?

 

[jroc74]

As to the title of this thread, I wouldnt call 3D World more archaic than YL, but I get what you're saying, lol.

 

[nkarafo]

The very first scene in the very first level. The first thing you see in game couldn't possibly work in your fantasy.

I don't see anything in the first level that wouldn't work in an overhead 2D perspective.

The theme park level in Sunshine (for instance) would never work.

 

[Thud]

But Sonic was never that good. Levels were designed to run through instead of actual challenging platforming. The platforming that was there was just off.

Crash Bandicoot was always good, though.

I'm expecting a few crash was never good posts when the remaster hits.

 

[Peltz]

It still has controls that ignore all progression the industry and the series itself made 20 years ago.

Yes... deliberately though. And it adds a lot of new options with the roll mechanic. Roll + Long Jump or just regular long jump and 8 way precision allows users to really pull off a lot of satisfying moves with precision.

 

[AGoodODST]

In Mario 64 you need to manually adjust the camera almost all the time.

So, no.

The camera in 3D World isn't even "fixed" in the way you are saying. It regularly switches viewpoint to show the stage from an different angle. How does that work in a 2D isometric game?

Not to mention you can manually move the camera to different positions in 3D World anyway.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

Interesting that you mentioned Swimming since it has the exact same swimming like in 3D World. That might be the only point a agree with you on though since the swimming mechanic was a clear step down from 64.

The rest eh, Once you realized how basic most missions in 64 were Sunshine does feel like a step up even with the padded out shines. The only broken one might be the infamous pachinko one, Even just running around and collecting coins in Sunshine and 64 despite them being filler missions felt great because the core mechanics were great. No amount of varied level design can make up for the huge step back 3D World took in terms of mechanics especially when the game is so easy it might be the easiest Mario game ever released and that is a huge problem. Not to mention most of its variety is really not all that special since it lifts 99% of it from other Mario games making the whole game feel like its all been done before as a result.

Nothing in any of the 3D Mario games is harder than the after game worlds of 3D World. Nothing.

 

[LordKano]

I don't see anything in the first level that wouldn't work in an overhead 2D perspective.

this though

Would never work.

Okay. You haven't played the game then. Or you played it blinded. Or you don't know what a perspective is. At this point I really don't know.

 

[Jonneh3003]

I'm expecting a few crash was never good posts when the remaster hits.

Every Crash thread is full of them. It's very annoying as someone looking forward to the game to have to read through the aimless shit posts.

 

[Skyzard]

I personally think 4 player 3d platforming is very ambitious. Especially considering how well it plays in co-op.

It's definitely a different feel to NSMB multiplayer. And for that reason, I'm glad it exists.

But it's not like a platforming adventure, which is why I love the 3D marios.

I still wanted decent multiplayer in a 3D mario adventure (with co-op moves like higher jumps, swinging people to attack etc) and I don't know how they would have designed the camera, but I was hoping they'd try. Still am but I don't think odyssey is doing that.

 

[Devil]

What a weird thread.

How can you even try to argue with 3D Worlds fixed camera? It was designed around that camera and it just works.

Thats like saying Mario has 4 player coop and YL doesn't, so Mario wins!!1

 

[Randomizer]

I agree and this seems to be the problem with Yooka-Laylee too, we probably would have had a better game if the project was on a smaller scale.

Yes. Instead of the 5 huge sprawling levels, that open up and become even bigger. They should have taking a leaf out of Super Mario 64 and Banjo & Kazooie's book, having lots of smaller more densely packed levels.

 

[Timeaisis]

Hahahahaha