Phoenix RISING
Banned
I never played Banjo. It has zero influence in how I view YL.
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Mario 3D World is more "archaic" than Yooka-Laylee but nobody complained.
- Thread starter nkarafo
- Start date
I never played Banjo. It has zero influence in how I view YL.
I really can't relate to those that found digital controls to be a dealbreaker. Man.
the saturn certainly was
the saturn certainly was
Seems like just an excuse for hating on 3D World.
Don't you get it?? It's a step baaaaaack because it's not how Mario 64 controls! This game is not Mario 64 so it sux
I Wanna Be The Guy
U-S-A! U-S-A! U-S-A!
Mario 3D World is an expertly designed game with well crafted level design that is bhilt around its camera and controls. There is nothing wrong with the way it plays at all. Complaining that you cant fully control the camera is the equivalent of complaining that you cant move and shoot at the same time in Resident Evil 4.
Seriously. Some men can really act like butt hurt babies when a sacred cow is exposed to not having been fundamentally worth worshiping in the first place.
Shovel Knight and VVVVVVVV are based on archaic designs but those games are actually good while your random Newsground flash platformer is nowhere near as well designed.
To put it another way this OP is trying to say anyone who doesn't like the design decisions in Mass Effect Andromeda shouldn't like the design decisions of Mass Effect 2. It's that type of absurd avoiding the fact ME 2 is enjoyed by more people simply by virtue of having better thought and care into everything it does that the newer game didn't match.
This speaks for itself
Jesus...
I hate how the camera gets stuck or hung up for just grazing a piece of geometery. Like Playtonic have had to notice how that affected playbility. It just feels awkward where youre trying to turn the camera & the damned thing is resisting. Its so frustrating and awkward!
This speaks for itself
Wait...is this a trailer with cuts or real footage of how the camera behaves? Because that's not "archaic" at all. It's just bad.
Suzushiiro
Banned
A big part of it is that YL is a kickstarted game, and kickstarted games are generally held to higher standards, especially if they give lofty promises like being spiritual successors to beloved dead franchises. Nobody wants to fund a 7/10 game, and delivering on a 2-4-year hype cycle is always going to be difficult.
Another part of it is timing- 3D World was an exclusive for a console that was starved for games at the time and also released in a period where there was a relatively small number of great games coming out on any platform. YL, on the other hand, released at the tail end of what was probably the greatest quarter in at least a generation as far as the quantity and quality of new releases went.
Another part of it is timing- 3D World was an exclusive for a console that was starved for games at the time and also released in a period where there was a relatively small number of great games coming out on any platform. YL, on the other hand, released at the tail end of what was probably the greatest quarter in at least a generation as far as the quantity and quality of new releases went.
Do people really think that 3D world is a "sequel" to SM64 and Sunshine? I always thought they were their own thing like the NSMB games and this was apparent from the trailers.
We got 2 classic Mario games on Wii and Nintendo did something different with the 3D Land/World. Now we are back to classic Mario.
We got 2 classic Mario games on Wii and Nintendo did something different with the 3D Land/World. Now we are back to classic Mario.
SpacePirate Ridley
Member
Let me guess. You are a fan of Super Mario Sunshine.
God I hate that graph so much. Galaxy is part of the 64 series, c'mon Nintendo. Only 3D Land and 3D World are their own thing.
Alcotholic
Banned
I've always liked 3D World much more than Galaxy. Maybe it could have been the controller input, but 3D world was just more fun to me. That being said, I wasn't aware that so many people felt 3D World was archaic.
Skellig Gra
Member
That doesn't make sense. Why would Galaxy not be with Sunshine and 64. Galaxy 2 I could see since there is no overworld.
Why? It's based on facts
What does it say in Japanese before each 3D?
This speaks for itself
Holy hell.
It's the linear 3D Mario games vs the Open Level Mario games.
It's fact.
Skellig Gra
Member
OP, I find it comical that you think no one complained about 3D World. We had endless threads of people bitching about it. Just like 3D Land before it.
Sir Ilpalazzo
Member
Almost all the stages in the Galaxy games are straightforward obstacle courses, like levels in 2D Mario games. Imagine a version of Galaxy where most of the stars are replaced with flagpoles and it becomes easy to see what criteria they're working under.
They're still obviously based on Mario 64's structure. Just more focused.
Whereas 3D Land and 3D World are built on new foundations as to how to make a Mario game in 3D.
Galaxy is kind of the very start of that branching point, and focused more on linear challenges and some older design calls showed back up (flowers and all for power ups?) but still had some more free roam segments. But they might be going too with their own intended approach and overall goals, so they may be speaking from that viewpoint too.
And yeah, I guess you COULD say 3D World was archaic in a way, but newer =/= better (else why did you even want Yooka Laylee in the first place?) and essentially we're talking about a twist on tested and true design versus going back to something that mostly died with the N64. There might be a reason for that death, though I'm more inclined to say other games collected key aspects for themselves and left this particular mold in the closet.
capylikesgames
Banned
I am excited to get my hands on Yooka Laylee, but trying to throw 3D World under the bus as a way to defend it from the people who don't get collectathons is a bad move, OP. True, 3D World simplifies 3D gameplay, but the level design and powerup/enemy variety is of a great quality while STILL packing quantity. It picks the game up despite any of the "technical shortcomings" you mentioned, which by the way, aren't mandatory for a 3D game. The Crash approach to 3D platformers has, and always will, work fine.
Calamari41
41 > 38
Galaxy has plenty of examples of Mario gameplay in pretty much every style, including 2D platforming. The Mario 3D Land/World offshoot focuses on the more linear and structured types of levels that you see in the Galaxy games and refines them to perfection. Galaxy has plenty of levels that play a lot like 3D World levels, but it also has levels that play like 64 levels and mixes of both. And plenty of levels that play like neither.
After thinking about it and reading the discussion, I really do see the Galaxy games as worthy of their own "line" on that chart.
After thinking about it and reading the discussion, I really do see the Galaxy games as worthy of their own "line" on that chart.
ShockingAlberto
Member
Haha, OP is so mad.
3D World was designed from the ground up with its anachronisms in mind. YL just seems like a mess with unintentional mistakes like the terrible camera.
I disagree. Galaxy has some open stage elements but much of it is also involves forward progression towards a goal or stages that are rigidly segmented with no going back after you pass a certain point, completely unlike Mario 64 or Sunshine. It's basically a very linear game throughout. At best it belongs somewhere in between those two timelines, but closer to 3D World.
I disagree. Galaxy has some open stage elements but much of it is also involves forward progression towards a goal or stages that are rigidly segmented with no going back after you pass a certain point, completely unlike Mario 64 or Sunshine. It's basically a very linear game throughout. At best it belongs somewhere in between those two timelines, but closer to 3D World.
Magicpaint
Member
Yeah grouping Galaxy games with those seems weird, especially 1 which had its own hub and quite a few Mario 64 style levels. Also just the very fact of going repeatedly to the same levels to get a different star means it plays and is structured very differently to 3D Land/World. There's also no time limit that drives down the aspect of linearity you get in the 3D games and the positioning of the camera angles and Mario's movement are a key differentiation to how to approach the gameplay.
It's true that there's a lot of design elements in Galaxy, and especially Galaxy 2 that naturally extend to form the foundation of 3D Land/World but there are still enough differences to make them feel distinct from the 3D series. Galaxy games, to me, feel more like a middle ground between the 64-style and 3D Land-style -- with Galaxy 1 a bit closer to the former and Galaxy 2 closer to the latter.
polyh3dron
Banned
Oh people complained about Mario 3D World. Including me.
I said "more complex". Do you disagree? Is 3D World actually a more complex game to control than Super Mario 64? I thought you'd been saying the opposite. In fact, the whole point of my post was that 3D World was simpler on purpose for valid reasons, in response to your post stating simpler meant it was a step back.
What the hell is your argument again?
nkarafo
Member
Simpler, yes, but also more restrictive. I had the same issue with Galaxy but 3D World restricted the controls even further. I can't put my finger on it but it didn't flow as well. In Mario 64 i would aimlessly jump around outside the castle just because it felt so good to control. I didn't feel the same with 3D World.
Restrictive is the word i would use to describe Mario 3D world as a whole then. I guess it's my fault for expecting a proper 3D game and not one with 3D graphics that tries to be the evolution of the 2D Mario games or whatever people say it is.
It is almost as though YL and 3DW have completely different level design goals that consequently demand different approaches to player and camera control.
This mentality that every 3D platformer has to be just like Mario 64 is fucking bizarre. It's like watching MOBA players complain about entries in the genre that throw out all the arcane little gameplay details from the Dota All-Stars blueprint.
This mentality that every 3D platformer has to be just like Mario 64 is fucking bizarre. It's like watching MOBA players complain about entries in the genre that throw out all the arcane little gameplay details from the Dota All-Stars blueprint.
3D World isn't a sandbox game. It's a get from A to B game. You're not meant to aimlessly roam it by design. It's like complaining that you can't aimlessly roam the court in a basketball game.
3D World has a very clear direction and executes it almost flawlessly. If yoy recall it was Nintendo's attempt to bridge both Mario 3d platforming design philosophy and Mario 2d design philosophy into a single game. By most accounts they were successful. YL is a pure throwback to exploration based 3d platformers of the N64 era and has spotty execution and seemingly enough flaws to weigh down the game. That's my takeaway from both games and they do not seem designed with the same goals or philosophy in mind.
Is this even allowed ?
SinCityAssassin
Member
I think it's more your fault you don't know the difference between "archaic" and "not good". Yooka Laylee's camera is "not good". 3D World's camera is an intentional choice and the level design and progression are built around it.
I'm saying the Sega Saturn and PlayStation are far better consoles, yes.
PepsimanVsJoe
Member
The problem with Yooka-Laylee isn't that it's "archaic".
It's just really unpolished.
-Mine cart sections are crap
-Numerous challenges are ehhhh....
-The camera is just bad
-Boss-fights are half-assed
-The arcade games are just plain trash
-Lack of enemy variety. Weird goblin...things, bees, jellyfish, and googly eyes that latch onto random objects? Pretty weak.
Lots of dumb stuff as well like no quick-restart on minigames, so if somebody screws up, but there's still a lot of time on the clock...oh well! If the player manages to beat the arcade game and the highscore on their first attempt, they only get the first reward. This means that no matter what, they have to play the arcade game twice.
There are also inconsistencies. Most platforming sections are pretty easy due to low penalties for failure, but then there are places like that one dark cavern in the ice world(forget what its called). It's a fairly lengthy platforming section where one screw-up requires the player to do everything over again. It's really at odds with most everything else.
I'm only up to the third world (just finished the boss-fight), so I expect the list of complaints to grow.
Still a fun game, but IMO its problems run pretty deep.
It's just really unpolished.
-Mine cart sections are crap
-Numerous challenges are ehhhh....
-The camera is just bad
-Boss-fights are half-assed
-The arcade games are just plain trash
-Lack of enemy variety. Weird goblin...things, bees, jellyfish, and googly eyes that latch onto random objects? Pretty weak.
Lots of dumb stuff as well like no quick-restart on minigames, so if somebody screws up, but there's still a lot of time on the clock...oh well! If the player manages to beat the arcade game and the highscore on their first attempt, they only get the first reward. This means that no matter what, they have to play the arcade game twice.
There are also inconsistencies. Most platforming sections are pretty easy due to low penalties for failure, but then there are places like that one dark cavern in the ice world(forget what its called). It's a fairly lengthy platforming section where one screw-up requires the player to do everything over again. It's really at odds with most everything else.
I'm only up to the third world (just finished the boss-fight), so I expect the list of complaints to grow.
Still a fun game, but IMO its problems run pretty deep.
This speaks for itself
Looks like it was cut by the people who filmed Iron Fist fight scenes.
Snkfanatic
Banned
Well it's an opinion so yes. Even if it is a ridiculous one.
nkarafo
Member
Which is the point i'm trying to make.
What are your thoughts on Far Cry 4 vs Infinite Warfare?
March of the Crabs
Member
I really like both games. However, 3D World takes a classic formula and modernizes it, while Yooka Laylee takes a classic formula and recreates it. There is a place for both and both games succeed (minus Yooka Laylee's camera issues).
nkarafo
Member
I don't know what you are trying to say but most FPS games control the same more or less, regardless if they are linear or open world. I haven't played these two particular games though.
This speaks for itself
Why is this being repeatedly quoted as something horrendous? You're supposed to get up to the Pagie and then continue along across the platform. If you just do that instead of trying to intentionally break the camera by jumping between the two segments then it's not a problem.